EPTFrom a previous poster it seems like the law in Korea already recognizes this and actually works that way in most cases, hence KeSPA doesn't pay royalties for BW but Blizzard decided to cut out LAN play to get some sort of loophole where they can force KeSPA to pay up. Way to go Blizzard.
Blizzard vs. KeSPA - Page 7
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
From a previous poster it seems like the law in Korea already recognizes this and actually works that way in most cases, hence KeSPA doesn't pay royalties for BW but Blizzard decided to cut out LAN play to get some sort of loophole where they can force KeSPA to pay up. Way to go Blizzard. | ||
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gh0st
United States98 Posts
On February 22 2010 04:07 Liquid`NonY wrote: Yeah, I agree. If Blizzard charges a fee then they should be providing some kind of e-Sports related service with the money generated by that fee. It would suck to see that money ending up going toward the development of Blizzard's other games or some other dead end. Let that money be recycled back into e-Sports! Blizzard invested a lot of resources on the front-end to make Sc2 e-sports friendly. Take, for example, the enhanced observer mode and replay features. Blizzard added these features to make watching competitive Sc2 more enjoyable/informative. We have some of these features (e.g. the resources and unit-counting overlay seen in the TSL) for Sc1, but 3rd parties had to create them from scratch, iirc. If you've followed the game's development, you know Blizzard designed the base game with e-sports in mind, which is something you can't say about Sc1. How you quantify these front-end investments I'm not sure. But I do think they should count for something. I'm also curious (and intrigued) by what a Blizzard-supported "e-sports related service" would look like. Just about everything I can think of that would qualify as such (tournaments themselves, casts other production stuff etc) is done by the licensee (otherwise there would be no product to sell). But an interesting thought worth pondering more. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:35 ComradeDover wrote: No. My argument is literally "People aren't very happy with Blizzard, and are willing to take the side of less-than-favorable alternatives in their opposition." Using Hitler's name was just for dramatic effect. Dell computers aren't intellectual property. Why not look at something that Kespa is already paying royalties for, the music they use? That's a far better analogy. TL doesn't make money...I don't think it does, at least. No your argument was "literally" that people opposing you must be nazi supporters, you then expanded on it but that was indeed what you "literally" said. And I am quite sure there was a thread about a couple of admins being offered money to sell the site, they didnt because the offer was too low (less than a million or something  ) but it still means that they are producing something of real monetary value primarly relying on blizzards product, at least according to your argument.However i'd say, to reiterate what I already mentioned: OSL MSL and TSL are not blizzard products. | ||
snowdrift
France2061 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:03 furymonkey wrote: Consider the Kespa history, they are the real greedy one here that are hindering the expansion of e-sports. These arguments about Kespa's "greed" don't make any sense (neither do those about Blizzard's "greed", by the way, they're just being short-sighted). It isn't Kespa's fault that other countries don't have proscenes, nor is it Kespa's responsibility. It's a bit ridiculous seeing people blame a South Korean company catering to a South Korean market for the lack of esports in their own countries. If we're even having a conversation about potential future proscenes in the rest of the world, it's thanks to Kespa showing the way with the Korean proscene. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17182 Posts
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snowdrift
France2061 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:03 furymonkey wrote: Consider the Kespa history, they are the real greedy one here that are hindering the expansion of e-sports. Double post. My bad! | ||
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DN2perfectionGM
United States233 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:08 Goragoth wrote: I think this is really simple. The way it should work (from a logical perspective, though perhaps not a legal one since laws are frequently tainted by the influence of large corporations), is like this: I purchase a product and then I can do with it as I please with the sole exception of violating copyright. The copyright applies only to the product itself and not derivative works. So if I buy a DVD and want to broadcast it to an audience then I have to pay royalties as the product is unaltered. When broadcasting a game however, the thing that is being sold is the match being played, which is a derivative, and wholly new work, and should not require royalties paid to the developer of the game. The game really is just a tool for creating the broadcast, just like you might use software like Maya to create a 3D animation, and you don't have to pay royalties. From a previous poster it seems like the law in Korea already recognizes this and actually works that way in most cases, hence KeSPA doesn't pay royalties for BW but Blizzard decided to cut out LAN play to get some sort of loophole where they can force KeSPA to pay up. Way to go Blizzard. | ||
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EximoSua
171 Posts
But Asking for royalties on your own video game = greedy? | ||
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:16 EximoSua wrote: Showing someone else's game on TV for money = not greedy? But Asking for royalties on your own video game = greedy? In the form of an artist using paints: Showing someone else's paints in a gallery for money = not greedy? But Asking for royalties on your own paints = greedy? | ||
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Windblade
United States161 Posts
here is the fact: 1) Kespa cant do shit with SC2, if they do illegal servers Blizzard will kill them for blatant pirating. Hell the US Government will be very angry at S. Korea and Korea knows that w/o the US they will be pussy-shit 2) SC2 will get realllllyyyy BIG globally, meaning Korea wont be that big of a factor for it. Sorry but its true, larger player base means that more people will be skilled and can play at a pro level. Hell Koreans will play SC2 but wont go pro with Kespa and join some league that does play by Blizzards generous rules 3) Pro's like ARTOSIS even think Kespa should stfu and pay Blizz 4) Since Blizzard is such a disappointment do us a favor and dont buy the game, dont play the game, in fact leave anything and everything Blizzard related | ||
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HeartOfTofu
United States308 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:41 ComradeDover wrote: This little drama will never have a chance to play itself out with SC2. No LAN = no offline broadcasts (What Kespa has been doing so far). If Kespa wants SC2, they'll have to do it through Bnet (The only way to play multiplayer SC2), and that requires a different license that they don't have. Either they'll pay up or they'll ignore SC2, but they can't keep doing what they've been doing. Just to note, there are already shows on OGN that broadcast Battle.net games so don't be so sure they won't be able to show games just because they're not on LAN.. On February 22 2010 06:24 Windblade wrote: this topic is going nowhere here is the fact: 1) Kespa cant do shit with SC2, if they do illegal servers Blizzard will kill them for blatant pirating. Hell the US Government will be very angry at S. Korea and Korea knows that w/o the US they will be pussy-shit 2) SC2 will get realllllyyyy BIG globally, meaning Korea wont be that big of a factor for it. Sorry but its true, larger player base means that more people will be skilled and can play at a pro level. Hell Koreans will play SC2 but wont go pro with Kespa and join some league that does play by Blizzards generous rules 3) Pro's like ARTOSIS even think Kespa should stfu and pay Blizz KeSPA doesn't need to make illegal servers and the US Government won't say anything about something so stupid as a dispute over eSports broadcasting rights. Most likely KeSPA will just go on and broadcast what they want and Blizzard will take them to court over it and lose just like they've done before. Regardless of SC2's success, S.Korea will still remain a huge factor simply because it already has a huge pro-gaming infrastructure in place already and Korean pros will ultimately support Korean leagues since they're the ones with sponsorships and pro-gaming teams in place. The fact that Artosis believes KeSPA should pay means nothing. He's just another person with his own OPINION. For some reason I suspect that a lot of the people supporting Blizzard here have absolutely no idea as to what KeSPA actually or simply can't grasp why the other side believes it makes no sense for KeSPA to have to pay Blizzard royalties to broadcast a game they legitimately purchased. KeSPA is the Koren eSports PLAYERS Association. If you believe that people who play games should pay Blizzard royalties for selling the rights to watch them play, then you've got other things you need to sort out in your head... | ||
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Windblade
United States161 Posts
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nujgnoy
United States204 Posts
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leonardus
59 Posts
If we make some nice wallpapers in Adobe Photoshop and the sell them, we only pay for the program not for the result that is made by us. So when we sell the pictures we don't have to pay nothing to adobe. I think this is the end of this thread with Kespa WIN. | ||
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RageOverdose
United States690 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:09 snowdrift86 wrote: These arguments about Kespa's "greed" don't make any sense (neither do those about Blizzard's "greed", by the way, they're just being short-sighted). It isn't Kespa's fault that other countries don't have proscenes, nor is it Kespa's responsibility. It's a bit ridiculous seeing people blame a South Korean company catering to a South Korean market for the lack of esports in their own countries. If we're even having a conversation about potential future proscenes in the rest of the world, it's thanks to Kespa showing the way with the Korean proscene. Actually, they do make snese. From what I've read earlier in this thread, it's already been revealed that Blizzard attempted to do a league they sponsored through GOM and have English broadcasts, but KeSPA killed it by barring all the teams from participating, despite the fact that it was actually garnering a decent number of viewers outside of South Korea, which could lead to more and more viewers, more leagues, and finally get rid of some of that stigma that sport-like gaming has in many countries. And no one is really blaming KeSPA entirely I don't think, but they are hindering the expansion. There are other, non-KeSPA factors involved in this. Also, it's really a non-issue about royalties. You don't use someone else's product to make money for yourself without giving them a share. It doesn't fly with just about anything else, I don't see why KeSPA should be exempt. Just because they made South Korean eSports more organized and helped it's popularity growth in just that country, doesn't make them any more entitled to using other people's IP's for their own goals. I don't believe Blizzard should attempt to crush them, but KeSPA needs to comply somewhere here. I know that Boxer is interested in expanding eSports around the globe, so I wonder if he knows about this stuff and if he does, it would be interesting to see his view on it. I dunno if it would help, but it would be interesting. | ||
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Teejing
Germany1360 Posts
Just sucks that lan support for taken out partially because of all this shit :/ | ||
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Windblade
United States161 Posts
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:32 RageOverdose wrote: Also, it's really a non-issue about royalties. You don't use someone else's product to make money for yourself without giving them a share. It doesn't fly with just about anything else, I don't see why KeSPA should be exempt. Have you not read the last 2 pages, clearly stating that actually in most examples products are used without paying royalties? Like photoshop, the microphones the casters use, the cameras, the seats, the computers, the sports equipment in NFL? | ||
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HeartOfTofu
United States308 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:26 Windblade wrote: Heart - Blizzard has more extensive copyright and EULA's in place for SC2. They cant get away with B.Net games The problem with your thinking is that they'll ultimately be arguing in a Korean court where the law is that if you buy something, you can use it for broadcast, which is the very reason why they couldn't get anything for SCBW. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On February 22 2010 06:32 RageOverdose wrote: From what I've read earlier in this thread, it's already been revealed that Blizzard attempted to do a league they sponsored through GOM and have English broadcasts, but KeSPA killed it by barring all the teams from participating, despite the fact that it was actually garnering a decent number of viewers outside of South Korea, which could lead to more and more viewers, more leagues, and finally get rid of some of that stigma that sport-like gaming has in many countries. And no one is really blaming KeSPA entirely I don't think, but they are hindering the expansion. There are other, non-KeSPA factors involved in this. I think this is wrongly accusing KeSPA. I'm pretty sure it was the teams that refused to participate in GOM, saying that it was too much of a burden for the players. Like season 3, only half the teams participated because half of them refused to participate. If KeSPA was behind this, then why would they only ban half the teams from playing in it? Its because players themselves are getting overloaded by pl, osl, msl, and gom. People like jaedong and flash were in 3 individual leagues and a makes regular appearance in normal and ace match in the proleague. Because of all this factors, the teams decided to not participate in the least prestigious tournament in the scene, which was GOM. | ||
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