EPTBlizzard vs. KeSPA - Page 6
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leonardus
59 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:22 leonardus wrote: Somebody please make a poll for this issue. | ||
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:22 leonardus wrote: Somebody please make a poll for this issue. Why? The poll won't decide who's right. | ||
snowdrift
France2061 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:18 ComradeDover wrote: So many people are on kespa's side because they're jumping on the Blizzard-hate bandwagon. Not to Godwin's-law myself, but if this debate was Blizzards vs Hitler, you'd still have some idiots saying "Blizzard can't be trusted to run anything! Give control to Hitler!", without fully understanding the argument at hand. Or maybe they're on Kespa's side because Kespa has a proven track record when it comes to esports, while Blizzard doesn't. The only bandwagon I see involves ragging on Kespa and bemoaning their influence even though they created pro SC. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:18 ComradeDover wrote: So many people are on kespa's side because they're jumping on the Blizzard-hate bandwagon. Not to Godwin's-law myself, but if this debate was Blizzards vs Hitler, you'd still have some idiots saying "Blizzard can't be trusted to run anything! Give control to Hitler!", without fully understanding the argument at hand. What blizzard hate band wagon? You argument litterally is, "some people don't agree with me they must be nazi supporters!!!!" I mean what? Do you guys think kespa should be paying royalties to dell (or which ever company) for using their computers as well? Should TL be paying royalties since the main reason the site exists (and makes add revenue) is by supplying videos of brood war games and discussion related to them? It doesn't make any sense, blizzards product is the game, people pay to buy the game. OGNs, MBCs and TLs (via TSL) product is the legaues, the players, the commentating, the organization, neither of which blizzard has anything to do with at all, and thus they shouldn't get money for it. | ||
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:27 snowdrift86 wrote: Or maybe they're on Kespa's side because Kespa has a proven track record when it comes to esports, while Blizzard doesn't. The only bandwagon I see involves ragging on Kespa and bemoaning their influence even though they created pro SC. You're right, Kespa organized esports, therefore it's okay to throw copywrite out the window. This post of yours proves me point exactly. This isn't a question of "Who should run esports?". Assuming Kespa pays up, like they should, they're still going to do what they do, the difference is they'll be doing it legally, and Blizzard will have more incentive to keep supporting the game longer. Also, I'll choose to ignore the Kespa abuses that are part of their "proven track record", like killing GOM. | ||
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:31 KlaCkoN wrote: You argument litterally is, "some people don't agree with me they must be nazi supporters!!!!" I mean what? No. My argument is literally "People aren't very happy with Blizzard, and are willing to take the side of less-than-favorable alternatives in their opposition." Using Hitler's name was just for dramatic effect. On February 22 2010 05:31 KlaCkoN wrote: Do you guys think kespa should be paying royalties to dell (or which ever company) for using their computers as well? Dell computers aren't intellectual property. Why not look at something that Kespa is already paying royalties for, the music they use? That's a far better analogy. On February 22 2010 05:31 KlaCkoN wrote: Should TL be paying royalties since the main reason the site exists (and makes add revenue) is by supplying videos of brood war games and discussion related to them? TL doesn't make money...I don't think it does, at least. | ||
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Puosu
7047 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:31 KlaCkoN wrote: Should TL be paying royalties since the main reason the site exists (and makes add revenue) is by supplying videos of brood war games and discussion related to them? Are you serious? ... | ||
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leonardus
59 Posts
1.Blizzard made the game. 2. Kespa can sell TV rights for his players games 3.MGN and OGN buy from Kespa those TV rights, because the games are very god and the leagues are very well managed and also attract a lot of people.The world is interested in Kespa games on TV not USA games or something else. Now Blizzard wants some money from Kespa for TV rights but then the prices will go up and OGN and MGN will not buy them and not transmit anything. Blizzard did not make the game for TV. They better focus on improving SC2 to be adopted by Kespa and in this way to promote their product. I think that Blizz wants something that not deserve. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
Yes - partially it was them that made SC popular in Korea (only because they saw profit there, don't you dare to say that they were angels and made SC popular because they love people LOOOOL), however that's it. The one and only good side of kespa's actions was help in making SC more popular in 1 country. Now for the kespa's sins - idiotic rules that kill competition and fun from the game, taking TOTAL control of how esports look like, monopolisation. These are VERY huge sins, kespa is VERY egoistic so don't pretend that they are holy. "But making SC more popular in korea made possible for Blizz to earn more money". Right, from what? Selling BW, like 1-2 millions copies more than without kespa, that's not as huge as the money kespa earned with it's activity. It is TOTALLY unfair that the people that made the game earned from it less than kespa Blizzard is in no way "bad" or "greedy", they have no problems with us doing anything with this game that is legal, they don't kill any competition with cheap tricks like kespa did to GOM, they care about community, read our forums, considered our feedback about sc2 even before beta came out and patch their games even when they are 10 years old, they build fucking platform to play on and don't require even a single penny for using it - you only log in with your original game and go. Now, what did your "holy" gespa did that was generous and good to you? That's right, they only did what was profitable to them and killed fun out of anything that didn't bring them profit, not caring about us (no chat in games, no 2v2, no GOM) On February 22 2010 05:31 KlaCkoN wrote: (...) Do you guys think kespa should be paying royalties to dell (or which ever company) for using their computers as well? (...) The most failed argument ever. Is kespa streaming the video of dell computers or of SC games? :| | ||
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ComradeDover
Bulgaria758 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:37 leonardus wrote: The actual status: 1.Blizzard made the game. 2. Kespa can sell TV rights for his players games 3.MGN and OGN buy from Kespa those TV rights, because the games are very god and the leagues are very well managed and also attract a lot of people.The world is interested in Kespa games on TV not USA games or something else. Now Blizzard wants some money from Kespa for TV rights but then the prices will go up and OGN and MGN will not buy them and not transmit anything. Blizzard did not make the game for TV. They better focus on improving SC2 to be adopted by Kespa and in this way to promote their product. I think that Blizz wants something that not deserve. This little drama will never have a chance to play itself out with SC2. No LAN = no offline broadcasts (What Kespa has been doing so far). If Kespa wants SC2, they'll have to do it through Bnet (The only way to play multiplayer SC2), and that requires a different license that they don't have. Either they'll pay up or they'll ignore SC2, but they can't keep doing what they've been doing. | ||
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emucxg
Finland4559 Posts
Poll: So...Who are you supporting? (Vote): Blizzard (Vote): KeSPA (Vote): fu.... | ||
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Teejing
Germany1360 Posts
So because kespa built the korean e-sport scene with sc they dont need to pay blizzard for using their product. Do i understand right when some of you guys say that Blizzard should have helped KESPA making profit with sc in korea to earn the right to get some fees? That is genius!!! So let us say you are a musician and some korean dude named Mr.Kespa comes steal your music and makes millions and millions $$$ for years in korea with your music! What do you think about that? a) MOTHERFUCKA ripped me off!!!! b) It is fine, because he makes my music more popular and for every 10000$ he makes i make 1$ c) i should have helped him ripping me off so maybe he would give me 1% of the earnings! Next time someone wants to steal my shit i will help him! Damn i should have bought mr.Kespa those plane tickets!!!! I mean come on guys !!! Kespa was created, because sc was popular, not to start making it popular! Kespa is a company too! So yea, while Kespa may has helped blizzard to make some $ in sold sc, they must have made 100x as much with commercials. I must stop now because not having sc2 beta key + this thread makes me rage like mad. | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
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ababa
Switzerland17 Posts
On February 18 2010 14:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Hopefully they plan to expand their GOM partnership and do that... *WILD META SC POLITICAL-THEORYCRAFT WARNING* If I read the new blizzard battle.net "eula" right, and with no LAN games, I think they will do exactly something like that. There will be Blizzard-certified tournaments that can use SC2, and everyone else will be out. Kespa will remain @SC1, Blizzard will partner up with GOM for SC2, and even though it might be monopolistic on their part, in practice everything will be better for Starcraft (we will have good English coverage, and there will be a stronger non-Korean progaming scene). And that's the end of my wild political-theorycrafting. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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Gedrah
465 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img6.imageshack.us/i/ejecty.jpg/) It was nice talking with some of you before it devolved into OMG GREEDY | ||
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snowdrift
France2061 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:31 ComradeDover wrote: You're right, Kespa organized esports, therefore it's okay to throw copywrite out the window. This post of yours proves me point exactly. This isn't a question of "Who should run esports?". Assuming Kespa pays up, like they should, they're still going to do what they do, the difference is they'll be doing it legally, and Blizzard will have more incentive to keep supporting the game longer. Also, I'll choose to ignore the Kespa abuses that are part of their "proven track record", like killing GOM. This isn't about the legal argument; in that regard Blizzard can do what they want. This is about developing esports. Blizzard demanding royalties for something they had no role in creating -- the Korean proscene -- would just stifle the further growth of esports. Even now, esports don't seem hugely profitable -- consider MBCGames difficulties in finding sponsors, or the fact that OGN doesn't sponsor a team anymore. Do you think the scene will grow when fans have to pay for seating, or to watch VODs? That sort of thing would become inevitable with licensing fees. It could work out if Blizzard were truly committed to developing esports, but there track record doesn't inspire any confidence, hence the "pro-Kespa" argument. As for killing GOM, technically they weren't the ones who pulled the plug -- they simply withdrew their teams. Nothing prevented GOM from having their own teams/players, with Blizzard's help (after all, don't you believe in Blizzard's desire to develop esports?). The fact that they didn't have any of that infrastructure and were reliant on Kespa just goes to show how much Kespa created on their own. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:18 T.O.P. wrote: I'm not an expert towards legal issues at all but I think you can't compare the NFL to Blizzard. Blizzard invented the game. But it's Kespa's players who are playing the game. If you say that blizzard owns the copyright towards videos created in a game then all the fpvod streams on livestream violate copyright. People won't be able to upload a video of their replay without getting it taken down on Youtube. I'm not saying that blizzard would go on youtube removing starcraft videos. It just seems ridiculous to me that blizzard could own the copyright over a game that I played. You're missing the whole point, it's nothing to do with anything you've stated, it's the fact that Kespa are making a killing (lots of money) off Blizzard product. Consider the Kespa history, they are the real greedy one here that are hindering the expansion of e-sports. Does anyone know how much extra are Blizzard earning because of the e-sports? I can't really get a grasp because me and my friends don't go out and buy extra copy of Starcraft just because we are into the pro-scene. | ||
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On February 22 2010 05:40 Kaniol wrote: Seriously WTF with the kespa love? We all know how greedy they are... Yes - partially it was them that made SC popular in Korea (only because they saw profit there, don't you dare to say that they were angels and made SC popular because they love people LOOOOL), however that's it. The one and only good side of kespa's actions was help in making SC more popular in 1 country. Now for the kespa's sins - idiotic rules that kill competition and fun from the game, taking TOTAL control of how esports look like, monopolisation. These are VERY huge sins, kespa is VERY egoistic so don't pretend that they are holy. "But making SC more popular in korea made possible for Blizz to earn more money". Right, from what? Selling BW, like 1-2 millions copies more than without kespa, that's not as huge as the money kespa earned with it's activity. It is TOTALLY unfair that the people that made the game earned from it less than kespa Blizzard is in no way "bad" or "greedy", they have no problems with us doing anything with this game that is legal, they don't kill any competition with cheap tricks like kespa did to GOM, they care about community, read our forums, considered our feedback about sc2 even before beta came out and patch their games even when they are 10 years old, they build fucking platform to play on and don't require even a single penny for using it - you only log in with your original game and go. Now, what did your "holy" gespa did that was generous and good to you? That's right, they only did what was profitable to them and killed fun out of anything that didn't bring them profit, not caring about us (no chat in games, no 2v2, no GOM) The most failed argument ever. Is kespa streaming the video of dell computers or of SC games? :| I don't see what this has to do with wether blizzard should charge money for kespa to broadcast sc2 games, your argument is "we all hate kespa becuase they don't govern starcraft to my standard of efficently and fairness and their rules are not favourable to what I think most people would like to see, and thier buniess stratgey of agression is in my opnion immoral(despite the fact that capatalist compnies shouldn't be expected really to exercise a moral code out of pure good-will anyways) so lets make them pay for tv broadcasting to spite them" I really don't see this as logical. Also i think 1-2million copies is a bit of a low estimation about the amount of slaes the pro-scene has generted (yes i am assuming that kespa is the pro-scene and without them there wouldn't be one). If anyone should be to blame for the GOM situation it should be the korean government, they should use some sort of monoply act or protection against this kind of behaviour, like any western country the companies are expected to make money foremost before anything else and the government really should be the ones stepping in with legislation to make/encourage them to act along some sort of morality. The pro-scene could not happen without cameras right? So how does that process work? the company buys the cameras, and then the broadcasting company decides what it wants to do with it. The same goes with starcraft, the game is not the only peice of equipment that is vital to the whole pro-gaming expeirence, so what should it have a roaylty price? In the same way that starcraft can be played on a Dell or a HewlertPlakard, starcraft and redalert can be both played on a Dell. The pro-scene can use other games like broodwar and other stratagies, it's not the only component, it's just the largest factor. What blizzard should do is make it so that if you want to buy starcraft as a company to use to generate revenue instead of an individual, you must buy the buiness version of starcarft which is more expensive, much like how photoshop works with buiness liscences. Something else to consider: It seems perfectly reasonable that blizzard would actually pay a third party company to run the competative scene like this, so why on earth should kespa be paying blizzard!?! when you put it like that it's rediculous. | ||
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