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I really don't understand how people cannot see that Kespa was vital to sc's sucess? Just imagine this: remove all kespa tournements, and all the players in them too, and don't replace it with anything similar. Whats the result? no korean scene beyond what the forgiener scene is now, tell me how many of you would be interested in broodwar/teamliquid if there was no OSL MSL or proLeague? basicly if there was no professional korean scene, just semi-pro like we have in other countries. Not only that but the US scene has been partly bolstered up by the korean pro-scene becuase of forgieners interested in the korean scene and WCG adopting it becuase of Korea. Starcraft is a competative game, it's the best e-sports in the world, and the governing body of the professional leagues is KESPA not bilzzard. It's like if someone who made a valid case that they owned the rights to americain football when it first became popular and said that the NFL had to pay them sums of money and they said no, and no company wanted to pay, so you would have no televised NFL games, how popular would the game be then?
Look at any major sport, and it's sucess is made by the governing board of the professional scene and televisation, not the creator of the sport. Admitly the creators of sports are long dead now and don't have rights to claim in terms of copywright but imagine the mess we would be in if they did.
Yes blizzard should recive money from selling the game ect, but what kespa is doing is free advertising and not just that but giving players a REASON to buy the game, can you seriously tell me that Kespa's leagues are not the MAIN reason you are buying SC2/ did buy SC:BW?
It's what seperates it from games like red alert and such is that sc has the best and the only proper rts pro-scene that's considered like a main sport in the fact it is boradcast on tv and not a niche interest in at least one country, but mainstream. Sure it's blizzards job to make the game capable to have a pro-scene through balance, but surely discoraging/almsot not allowing pro-scene covering is just as bad as an unbalanced game? There's no point in balancing something for competative pro play if you don't allow a pro-scene, and basicly blizzard are cutting the head off the main source of coverage of the starcraft pro-scene at the moment, which is a massive part of the pro-scene's future sucess.
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On February 22 2010 03:54 KlaCkoN wrote:
I agree with the people that said that they don't trust blizzard to create a long term competetive enviroment for sc2 at all.
I don't understand how people can be comfortable with the idea of a game _developer_ being totally in charge of the scene for game that's already been released.
Not being comfortable is not a justification to forego copyright.
What happens when warcraft 4 comes out? Do people seriously believe blizzard will still support sc2 then?? (apart from a convinience patch or 2 every year) The sc2 leagues that blizzard start up now will then go the same way as the old bw ladder, I'm sure of it.
If Blizzard generates an income stream either in the form of royalties or from their own events you can be damn sure they'll not just forget about SC2.
The progaming scene around bw made blizzard profit from sales a long, long time after the game would have died off completely if independent organizations hadn't picked up where blizzard left off. I personally have bought 3 copies of sc+bw soley due to the korean pro scene. And I am sure a lot of other people on this website can say the same.
All in all, blizzard make games and thus they should get money when people buy them. They shouldn't get money for what people do with their games after they have bought them :/
Another sports analogy: Adidas shouldn't get royalties from the international olympic commitee because they are organizing a competition where people wear Adidas gear. Even though Adidas may have spent millions and millions on developing said gear.
Your analogy is not relevant since Adidas is not required to play the sport its just a logo. It's a very different situation.
On the contrary blizzard should be happy that other people are spending huge amounts of time and effort on something which is effectivly a big advertisment for their game without asking for payment. If anything blizzard should pay kespa =p
No this is Blizzards game and they have both a moral and legal justification for royalties just as muscians do when there music is used.
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well if you guys like royalties, ive heard of this great place that is based entierly on it. o yea, the middle ages. :/
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100% Blizzard is in the right. Kespa did a lot of good for Starcraft but that doesnt make Starcraft theirs.
I would love to see Kespa work with Blizzard (on Blizzard's terms) but if they cant find a way then well at least theyll still have SC1.
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Blizzard should use their endless source of money to buy KeSPA.
Now that'd be baller.
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Nobody is saying that Kespa did nothing to make SC1 a success. It's just that it's perfectly reasonable for a company to expect a share when someone else makes money off of THEIR product. That's the whole point of it all really.
It's sad though because this is just an annoying tug-of-war between two companies who are hoping that the other one will give in. Saying that Kespa doesn't care about SC2 is laughable. Everyone knows that SC2 will be a major success and that many people around the world will be transferring to it. Kespa will obviously want a piece of the pie, but they don't want to pay royalties, so they're hoping that SC2 will "fail" as an e-sport so that Blizzard will give in and let them broadcast for free. Then of course Blizzard is hoping that SC2 will be such a success that people will abandon Kespa and then Kespa will be forced to pay or go bankrupt. It's hard to say which one will happen because nobody really knows how the SC2 e-sport scene will fare.
We know that it will be a success, but we don't know if Kespa is really as vital as it was in the SC1 days, and we don't know enough about how the e-sport scene will grow without Kespa behind it. It's really just two stubborn companies desperately hoping that the pendulum will swing in their favor in the coming months.
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People assume Blizzard wants to control everything itself. This really isn't true, Blizzard doesnt have a problem with Kespa running its leagues and whatnot, they just want a rightful loyalty fee. Do you guys honestly think Kespa rules the world? E-Sports have been growing, Blizzard doesnt need to handle the pro-game field a new league will probably pop up on its own US and/or other foreign countries- Blizz just gives rules and regulations (basically a standard maker and moderator) give us a small royalty fee, ok done, aight go ahead and play your leagues GL HF
This isn't a battle over who CONTROLS the pro-game scene, this is about being rightfully paid for your work. Honestly, Kespa is pretty bad they have a monopoly over the scene. Which just shows how unfortunately disfunctional the korean law system is. The US has built in safeguards for organizations like Kespa, and this dispute.
In the US, the case is simple: The game is Blizzards, pay them a fee or stfu.
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Does blizzard have the right to be getting royalties? Yes, they spent millions to develop this game and what not.
Are they being greedy? They are a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. It's not like this is unethical.
Is Kespa being greedy? Kespa also happens to be a company (or they represent companies, or something, not sure the exact structure of it.) Kespa's goal is to make as much money as possible. Kespa probably worries about the fact if they give in on this issue, other companies will follow suit.
But but,... blizzard gets free advertising and they should be happy that their game is on tv? You're a dumb ass.
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If the audience and players have to sit on those white plastic chairs, it means that they certainly don't have any money to spend on Blizzard fees.
These things cost like 2,95€.
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Or maybe it shows how cheap ass Kespa is
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I am more curious just exactly how much is being profited from the pro-scene in Korea.
There is very limited amount of e-sport merchandises being released to the public. The majority of the profit comes from the commercials that air on OGN and MBC. Since there is no ticket sales and the entire pro-scene is mainly ran based on limited corporate sponsorships, I really wonder how profitable is it really.
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blizzard shouldn't take any fees! fucking greedy corporation...
it's like england taking fees from fooball just they invented it -.-
p.s. blizzard made sc but kespa made progaming sc 
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by your statement
blizz shouldnt even make SC2 then because they'll get money for the work they put into it
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Morally/legally i think that they should get some fees, however for the good of esports and possible long term profit I would say don't charge fees.
Does anybody have an idea about how blizzard-run tournies will work? will it be a buy-in thing, a straight up prize pool or what? I think this is very important to know.
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I think that it should be the opposite way. Blizzard should be paying KeSPA for putting sc2 on tv. KeSPA and similar groups/events/tourneys is what brings people to want to play starcraft in the first place. A lot of people start playing starcraft after what they see broadcasted by KeSPA and similar groups, not just because starcraft is made by blizzard.
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blizzard will get money from selling a product and that should be it!
adidas/nike are making balls and you buy it.. why would you pay if you play with it? kespa is an e-sport organization and kespa making e-sport events = it's great commercial for blizzard...
i know WOW made them more greedy then ever but i will officially hate them so so so much if they will take money from KESPA or anyone else just coz they want to make progaming or gaming event
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On February 22 2010 05:03 Monkeyboi2k3 wrote:
I think that it should be the opposite way. Blizzard should be paying KeSPA for putting sc2 on tv. KeSPA and similar groups/events/tourneys is what brings people to want to play starcraft in the first place. A lot of people start playing starcraft after what they see broadcasted by KeSPA and similar groups, not just because starcraft is made by blizzard.
Yea, imagine I make a game and then I have to pay you money so you can make money. Your statement is just flawed. If blizzard doesn't make money off their own product, how do you expect them to keep supporting it years after with patches, tourneys, and whatever they have planned. And I don't see why so many are on kespas side, when knowing if this happens here in the states, they would of been sued already. I say they pay the fee just like any other company would if they want to make money off someone elses product.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
I'm not an expert towards legal issues at all but I think you can't compare the NFL to Blizzard. Blizzard invented the game. But it's Kespa's players who are playing the game. If you say that blizzard owns the copyright towards videos created in a game then all the fpvod streams on livestream violate copyright. People won't be able to upload a video of their replay without getting it taken down on Youtube. I'm not saying that blizzard would go on youtube removing starcraft videos. It just seems ridiculous to me that blizzard could own the copyright over a game that I played.
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On February 22 2010 05:13 kyama wrote:
And I don't see why so many are on kespas side...
So many people are on kespa's side because they're jumping on the Blizzard-hate bandwagon. Not to Godwin's-law myself, but if this debate was Blizzards vs Hitler, you'd still have some idiots saying "Blizzard can't be trusted to run anything! Give control to Hitler!", without fully understanding the argument at hand.
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Well im sure that kespa, or actually the broadcasting networks (arent they pretty much one and the same?) pay royalties for music that they play, so why wouldnt they pay for the actual game?
Kespa just seems like a corrupt organization.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.freewebs.com/beeskneesmarquees/plas%20chair.bmp)
