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On February 22 2010 02:40 leonardus wrote:
SC2 is still in trial, and at this moment is not good for broadcasting so we have a long way till then. Stay cool and relax, SC2 it is a failure now and KESPA is smiling.
Well of course a game in beta isn't going to stand against SC1, but that can easily change once beta ends and when the expansions start to come out.
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On February 22 2010 02:36 Windblade wrote:
Blizzard doesnt NEED Kespa they can do w/e the hell they want and still make it a success
This really isn't even an argument, either Kespa pays or they dont get SC2.
Not so sure about that, what would SC: BW be without the korean scene? An extremely balanced and skillbased game - yes sure, but what else?
Kespa has pushed SC:BW to become a legendary game, with legendary players.. Large communities (TL.net) wouldn't even exist without the korean BW scene.
I do think kespa plays an important role in terms of SC2's longetivity and sucess.
We already know this game is going to sell millions of copies, the question is how long it will last, and how much this game can push the e-sport scene to its next level.
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Dont worry guys, im sure in the end of the day Kespa will take the worst decision possible with a horrible result for everyone.
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How much money can make Blizzard from TSL tournaments if they will request money from this site how that will be?
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
Why doesn't Blizzard hire another broadcasting company in Korea and allow them to broadcast the games for a nominal fee which is only fair.
That would force Kespa to either pay or get left in the dirt. It'd be their fault for trying to monopolise and destroy the e-sports scene. Nothing works with monopolies. That's why there's generally a law in most countries to stop it happening.
On February 22 2010 02:46 leonardus wrote:
How much money can make Blizzard from TSL tournaments if they will request money from this site how that will be?
I doubt they would do that. As the way TSL is streamed it's not actually making any money off of Blizzards work. If anything something like TSL is exactly what Blizzard want to see. Communities hosting their own big tournaments on their games.
Unlike Kespa TSL as far as I know don't actually make any profit from hosting the tournament where as if it's Telivised someone will end up making a ton of money.
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blizzard already killed the arbelet cup sc2 tournament because of these fees
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On February 22 2010 02:49 Qikz wrote:
Why doesn't Blizzard hire another broadcasting company in Korea and allow them to broadcast the games for a nominal fee which is only fair.
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This is what GOM tried to do.
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A small cut makes sense. They have a copyright on the game for a reason.
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I think Blizzard are being really stupid. They shouldn't have any fee because it inhibits the ability of outside agents to essentially market their game for them. Kespa should be given partial credit for the high sales of SC1. Because Kespa and eSports succeeded... so did SC1.
So much rides on the success of Battlenet for future Blizzard products. If SC2 takes off as a major eSport Battlenet could become the main portal for all PC gamers. Then Blizzard will have a really strong hold on the PC games market and can use that to make lots of money in the future.
It reminds me of Microsoft vs IBM. IBM tried to cash in on an operating system that no-one was using yet and Microsoft rolled over them by giving theirs out for free then making ridiculous money in the long term.
If the Battlenet software becomes the standard for most PC gamers Blizzard will be so ridiculous rich nothing else will matter.
So they should stop being greedy bastards and let external sources market their game for them with no fees.
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im afraid that even if blizzard tries hard to make SC2 an e-sports like it is in korea, it just wont be the same as we know rightnow. SC2 needs to become popular like SC:BW is in Korea, and the only country where i see it is possible is exactly in korea, but then KeSPA comes into play.
If KeSPA do not embrace SC2 as it did with SC:BW, i doubt SC2 will be as successful as the first one.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On February 22 2010 02:58 Klive5ive wrote:
I think Blizzard are being really stupid. They shouldn't have any fee because it inhibits the ability of outside agents to essentially market their game for them. Kespa should be given partial credit for the high sales of SC1. Because Kespa and eSports succeeded... so did SC1.
So much rides on the success of Battlenet for future Blizzard products. If SC2 takes off as a major eSport Battlenet could become the main portal for all PC gamers. Then Blizzard will have a really strong hold on the PC games market and can use that to make lots of money in the future.
It reminds me of Microsoft vs IBM. IBM tried to cash in on an operating system that no-one was using yet and Microsoft rolled over them by giving theirs out for free then making ridiculous money in the long term.
If the Battlenet software becomes the standard for most PC gamers Blizzard will be so ridiculous rich nothing else will matter.
So they should stop being greedy bastards and let external sources market their game for them with no fees.
The only reason why I disagree with you Klive is why should somebody else be making a profit of of something you've been working on for 10 years? Surely it'd be a bit of a kick in the teeth if you're not getting anything back for it.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
This thread is going to send me full tilt. I'm out!
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On February 22 2010 02:17 Kennigit wrote:
This has nothing to do with greed lol. It's a company. Companies need to make money. Companies can invest in 5 year long development cycles by having a steady revenue stream (WoW?). Of course KESPA should be paying up - they make MILLIONS per year in profit.
They aren't trying to squelch shit - Valve charges people to broadcast Source. The NFL charges CBS to broadcast matches.
I wish people would stop jumping to these ridiculous conclusions when they have no idea whats even going on.
+1
Of course Blizzard is entitled to royalties. I can't believe everyone thinks that Kespa should just be able to broadcast games for free. The fact that Blizzard already makes large profits is in no way a moral justification for Kespa to steal the rights to broadcast the game.
As Kennigit says, Blizzard is a company and they're perfectly entitled to aim for bigger profits, this has nothing to do with greed. They've invested a huge amount of time and money into the game and their entitled to see a return. Get in the real world people. THIS IS CAPITALISM. If you don't like it go an live in North Korea and wait for them to create a game as good as starcraft. (You're going to be waiting a long time.)
Free advertising is no justification either. Royalties are paid for the songs played before matches (they get free advertising as well) why an earth not for the actual game itself.
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On February 22 2010 02:46 Senx wrote:
Not so sure about that, what would SC: BW be without the korean scene? An extremely balanced and skillbased game - yes sure, but what else?
Kespa has pushed SC:BW to become a legendary game, with legendary players.. Large communities (TL.net) wouldn't even exist without the korean BW scene.
I do think kespa plays an important role in terms of SC2's longetivity and sucess.
We already know this game is going to sell millions of copies, the question is how long it will last, and how much this game can push the e-sport scene to its next level.
we arent talking about BW, we're talking SC2. Considering Blizzard has made WoW a 5-year MMO and the largest and still going...without Kespa...umm yeah they dont need them to keep a game going.
No one is denying Kespa's part in making Brood War big, Blizz doesnt deny that either. The problem here is the fact that Kespa is using someone else's IP, hardwork, and investment without any kind of royalty fee. What Kespa is doing happened in the US once upon a time, which is why this act is ILLEGAL in the US.
Again: I make an App for the iPhone. I put the work down, i came up with it, i did everything for it. Now when its on the App store and there's a price for it is it fair that Apple takes all the money? No, i get a cut of that money but Apple gets a certain percent too, why? Because i made it but its being distributed thanks to Apple.
SC2 is not a direct correlation but Blizzard is both distributing and creating SC2, Kespa isnt doing anything for its development. Basically its like you invent this awesome thing and some other person takes that thing and starts making money off it, and gives you none of that money. Won;t you be mad? Besides its not like blizzard wants it for the greed, blizzard spent MONEY on this thing they need the money to keep operating and INVESTING into new games.
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op should add a poll :p
i think blizzard should let kespa run sc2 just like they did with sc, its good business for both already. but then again if kespa refuces this offer then some new corp in korea can just start and accept what kespa didnt and take over korean esport for sc2 so atm i dont see how blizzard could lose this war
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I will go ahead and admit that my opinions in regard to this are largely based on the fact that I've absolutely no faith in Blizzard's ability or willingness to create and maintain a serious competitive environment for SC2. If you look at Blizzard's games historically, despite all Blizzard's talk, it's always fallen to third parties in the form of KeSPA, WGT, PGT, ICCUP, etc. to create any serious and meaningful competitive environments. Every move so far involving SC2 has been one to either interfere and profit from these third parties or to cut them out of the picture entirely and I personally don't like it simply because I don't believe Blizzard will seriously follow through with all their talk about supporting eSports and such.
That being said, I don't see why Blizzard should profit from something like KeSPA broadcasting which they've absolutely had no hand in organizing or creating. Sure, Blizzard made Starcraft, but they've played no part in turning it into the eSports phenomenon that it is today. KeSPA organizes the Korean eSports scene and therefore, they should be the ones to hold the rights to it much like the NFL holds broadcasting rights because they are the entity organizing the league. For Blizzard to require KeSPA to pay them royalties would to me be akin to Lousiville Slugger requiring the MLB to pay them royalties if they decide to use their baseball bats. The simple reason I say that the sports league argument doesn't apply is I could theoretically create my own baseball league with the same exact rules and I wouldn't have to pay the MLB a dime even if it was the same exact game. The MLB doesn't own the game itself, it only owns the league it created. In Blizzard's case, Starcraft 2 isn't a league. It's a tangible product like a baseball bat.
The way I see it, Blizzard sees money in the eSports scene that third parties have created and nurtured and now they want a piece of it by creating their own league and taxing any potential competition. Hell, I may be completely wrong about everything and frankly, that's fine because that would be best for the game. I'm just calling it the way it looks to me and aside from Blizzard fanboys, I think a lot of people would probably interpret these decisions and moves in a similar way...
On a side note, I think a lot of people here have this idea in their heads that eSports in Korea is ridiculously profitable when in reality it's not. Sure, it's somewhat profitable, but nowhere near the extent that many people here seem to believe.
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Right now we have this concept of "advertising value" where anything people like has a value determined by how many people are watching\visiting. This time is very valuable and it can be sold to advertisers at a given rate. "Free" websites like Youtube and Google make a fucking killing by this logic, people are using our shit so our ad space is valuable. You "pay" for these services by being an interested consumer with presumably at least one eye that can see ads. I find this silly because I've never purposely clicked, read, looked at, or made a purchase based on an ad, but I guess some people must occasionally click these fucking things or else there wouldn't be a steadily growing demand for advertising space and websites that generate "traffic" over the last 17 years I've been using online technology... I doubt much of that "traffic" ever actually causes a sale for anyone...
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Even Youtube pays people who make vids. I think if your vids consistently geting like 1 million + hits they give you a cut of the ad money they receive that get placed on your vid page
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there is no even Lan-support, what a joke lol
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EPT
