EPTBlizzard vs. KeSPA - Page 9
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cz
United States3249 Posts
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cz
United States3249 Posts
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zee
201 Posts
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On February 22 2010 07:29 cz wrote: A lot of terrible, terrible logic in this thread. This is about what Blizzard can and cannot do, and theoretically I guess what the ideal laws would be. Things like "blizzard makes enough money... therefore kespa should have the right do broadcast" implies that you support a law where if a company doesn't make a certain amount of money from their game, they own the broadcast rights to it, whereas if they do, they surrender their broadcast rights. Because that makes sense. Admittedly ultimately blizzard can do whatever the fuck they want, it's their Starcraft2. It's just a shame, if there was competition of lots of good spectator e-sports that were well balanced blizzard would be forced to act reasonably, which would be to charge a license fee (like photoshop) but not royalties. | ||
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Xlancer
United States126 Posts
Anyway I don't think that Blizzard should focusing on charging people for broadcasting SC2 games. Blizzard should instead spend their time and money on creating their own BETTER SC2 broadcasting network. KeSPA isn't perfect, and I would love to see Blizzard create some healthy competition. Maybe Blizzard could even steal some players for their own well-paid, well-treated pro-team. | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
I do want to say though, that the analogy to content creation software doesn't hold that much water (I admit I made a bit of a blunder mentioning it, as people took that rather literally), since there is other Blizzard IP involved (storyline, artwork, sounds, etc...). Also a better example might be using a screen captured video of e.g. Photoshop to create a training video that is sold for money but it still doesn't compare directly. It is rather easy to oversimplify this issue by making comparisons like this. Similarly you might say that it is wrong to use somebody else's 3D model in a for-profit CG movie without permission/paying royalties. The important distinction here, I think, is that Blizzard is selling SC2 as a computer game and not an e-Sports virtual arena or something (in which case they would be right to demand royalties) and that KeSPA is using the game to create a derivative product (the matches) that are separate from Blizzards product (the game). In the end it is a fine distinction that shouldn't be oversimplified and where you stand depends a lot on how you feel about IP laws. In the end the lawyers will decide the issue anyway, and if it is in fact true that under Korean law Blizzard can demand royalties for games, then KeSPA (or more specifically OGN/MBC) should in fact just pay up, work it out and make SC2 pro games a reality. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On February 22 2010 07:29 cz wrote: A lot of terrible, terrible logic in this thread. This is about what Blizzard can and cannot do, and theoretically I guess what the ideal laws would be. Things like "blizzard makes enough money... therefore kespa should have the right do broadcast" implies that you support a law where if a company doesn't make a certain amount of money from their game, they own the broadcast rights to it, whereas if they do, they surrender their broadcast rights. Because that makes sense. The main issue is not what Blizzard has the right to do but what is better for ESPORTS. | ||
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Treliant
Canada4 Posts
 It seems to me that KESPA is at a severe disadvantage for the upcoming release of SC2. I think everyone can agree that they were extremely influential in the development of SC as an e-sports entity and that they really built it from the ground up. On the flip side Blizzard got screwed on the royalties. I've seen many examples comparing KESPA to a major sports league and treating blizzard as the games inventor when i believe the better comparison would be Blizzard as the sports franchise owners and broadcasting stations as KESPA. I would expect the NFL or NHL to be pissed is someone set up games and broadcasted them and made money. It comes down to Blizzard OWNERSHIP of SC, If KESPA owns SC then no problems, they can do whatever they want but i strongly suspect that is not the case. The disadvantage i see KESPA in right now is that they have established a model for e-sports that has been shown to be profitable, meaning there will be a large quantity of people who would be willing to step in and jump start a new business that will make money. Make no mistake, Blizzard does not need Kespa now that Kespa has laid a foundation. It may be more costly to start up but if blizzard decides to go elsewhere there will be people interested in making a profit and so willing to step into KESPA's role for SC2. | ||
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Xlancer
United States126 Posts
On February 22 2010 07:39 Treliant wrote: The disadvantage i see KESPA in right now is that they have established a model for e-sports that has been shown to be profitable, meaning there will be a large quantity of people who would be willing to step in and jump start a new business that will make money. Make no mistake, Blizzard does not need Kespa now that Kespa has laid a foundation. It may be more costly to start up but if blizzard decides to go elsewhere there will be people interested in making a profit and so willing to step into KESPA's role for SC2. That's a great point. If KeSPA decides not to move to SC2, then someone else in Korea will start their own SC2 team gaming network. | ||
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Windblade
United States161 Posts
in that regards, no one cares. Why? because unless your in Korea you dont care about Kespa since they only are a korean esports league. and blizzard could state that "no televised broadcast of the material is allowed without authorization" which means you cant show matches on TV w/o permission, but you can put replays up on youtube. There is a possibly way around this - Blizz throws SC2 support to a new Korean association, but ill be surprised if someone in korea actually starts a new one. Id like to see the reaction if someone like Boxer said that Blizz is right. *Crickets* | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On February 22 2010 03:31 HeartOfTofu wrote: KeSPA is honestly not playing a dangerous game at all. If they can't get the rights for whatever reason or are unwilling to pay for them, they'll just either broadcast a different game or wait for a Korean company to create a suitable clone to broadcast. If you actually sit down and watch the OGN channel, you'll notice that other than games like Starcraft and Street Fighter 4, it's pretty much all Korean-made games that are unheard of anywhere else in the world. Some of them are pretty blatant rip-offs of other game (Sudden Attack/Special Forces)... The only real issue here is that Korea is one of the only countries with an actually established professional eSports infrastructure and Blizzard wants to profit from it while the Koreans don't want to give Blizzard money for something that they feel that they themselves created. I am sorry, but it is not as simple as that. Infact, a lot of people in this thread seem to be overestimating KeSPA`s position in this matter. Yes, the Korean e-Sports scene is filled with Korean-made games and blatant rip-offs....but do you honestly think any of those games are doing particularly well? Ever since the beginning of the e-Sport(s) industry, StarCraft has remained the most dominant game both in terms of viewers as well as sponsorship. In spite of many attempts, other games have just been unable to take off. The only Korean game that can be considered somewhat successful is Special Forces and even that has more to do with the fan service and FireBatHero-esque stunts the players pull off rather then the game itself. The fact that SF needs to compete with Sudden Attack as well as Counter-Strike itself does not help it much either. Compounding the problem further is another problem and that is the fact that StarCraft is no longer bringing the numbers it used to. It was always a niché market, so it is not like it had a mainstream following at any point. However, even two years ago, we could still talk of a multi-million audience. The latest OSL Finals were watched by about half a million viewers. When you consider what I just said a sentence earlier, that is actually quite disastrous. The fact that StarCraft no longer dominates PC bangs and that even events with old-school players are not getting as much attention as before (IeSF, for example, went completely under the radar of a lot of people) hardly help the issue. So what needs to be done in order to solve the problem? Well, ultimately, more e-Sports oriented games need be developed. But before that can happen, developers need to see that it is wortwhile to develop games with e-Sports in mind. And in order for that to happen, a game needs to appear that will not only succeed in the Korean market, but have enormous potential for growth by having a significant audience outside of Korea as well. Basically, the Korean e-Sports industry needs a new game that would take over the mantle and champion it`s cause. And out of all the options available (which are, quite frankly, limited), StarCraft II is by far the title with the most realistic chances to do that. Do not misunderstand, Blizzard stands to lose a significiant market if SC2 progaming does not take off in Korea. However, KeSPA needs StarCraft II just as much as Blizzard needs the Korean market, if not moreso. | ||
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madsweepslol
161 Posts
This goes to the heart of the issue of digital property. Corporations want to tightly control it so as to squeeze every nickel and dime possible out of customers. I say fuck 'em, I bought it and I'll do what I damn well please with it short of selling it. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
I imagine Blizzard simply wants to stand firm on the issue so that it goes no further. Ultimately, if SC2 is successful as we all hope it is, then Kespa will be relatively meaningless as the game explodes beyond its simple borders. We focus so much on such a small scene, that it's easy to lose the big picture of millions and millions of possible new players in SC2 to spring up with new players, leagues, events all throughout the world. | ||
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madsweepslol
161 Posts
On February 22 2010 08:11 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Kespa is looking out for their interest in Korean E-Sports. Blizzard has a much, much, much broader picture to paint. They care about a global e-sports development for their game. If they allow Kespa to do as they please then it will set a bad example for what they're trying to do.... whatever that is. But ignoring Kespa and letting Korea do its thing could in turn lead to other companies/countries possibly trying similar stances. I imagine Blizzard simply wants to stand firm on the issue so that it goes no further. Ultimately, if SC2 is successful as we all hope it is, then Kespa will be relatively meaningless as the game explodes beyond its simple borders. We focus so much on such a small scene, that it's easy to lose the big picture of millions and millions of possible new players in SC2 to spring up with new players, leagues, events all throughout the world. Actually, trying to control KeSPA will stifle the SC2 esports scene. Letting peeps do their own things is what would allow leagues to flourish. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On February 22 2010 08:15 madsweepslol wrote: Actually, trying to control KeSPA will stifle the SC2 esports scene. Letting peeps do their own things is what would allow leagues to flourish. That's irrational fear on your part at this point. Blizzard isn't attempting to control, run, or operate Kespa.... yet. Right now this almost pure speculation and rumors on all of our parts, but if Blizzard wanted to do everything on the e-sports scene themselves; we'd know about it by now. | ||
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madsweepslol
161 Posts
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lepape
Canada557 Posts
All I can say is, asking royalties for broadcasting a game can only hurt esports more than it can help it. If anyone dreams of ever seeing a north american or an european SC2 proleague on TV, royalties to use the game would just kill any possible attempt to make any profit out of it outside Korea. Hell, I wonder if the whole SC1 proscene would have been possible in Korea if they had to pay royalties right from the start, when the game was young and still not that popular. | ||
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
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Windblade
United States161 Posts
You do know that abc/nbc/fox/espn they all pay the NFL, NHL, MLB to broadcast games right? You're argument got debunked and yeah we can stream it, because we arent charging money or making money off the stream. KeSPA makes money off the broadcast which iis the major difference and argument. They are using a product that they do not own in anyway to make a profit while you just let people watch you play for 0 profit. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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