• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:30
CET 04:30
KST 12:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage14Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament iNu's Battles #22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery BW General Discussion [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool [BW] Looking for Clan Thread!
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll
Strategy
Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13741 users

[ASL21] Grand Finals - Page 46

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 44 45 46 47 48 51 Next
Recommended Games
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 1?

Yes (31)
 
94%

If you have time (2)
 
6%

No (0)
 
0%

33 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 1?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 2?

Yes (25)
 
96%

If you have time (1)
 
4%

No (0)
 
0%

26 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 3?

Yes (30)
 
88%

No (3)
 
9%

If you have time (1)
 
3%

34 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +
Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 4?

Yes (16)
 
55%

No (8)
 
28%

If you have time (5)
 
17%

29 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 4?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +
Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 5?

If you have time (13)
 
52%

Yes (8)
 
32%

No (4)
 
16%

25 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 5?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 6] +
Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 6?

Yes (32)
 
97%

No (1)
 
3%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

33 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 6?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 7] +
Poll: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 7?

Yes (31)
 
67%

No (14)
 
30%

If you have time (1)
 
2%

46 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Flash vs Soma Game 7?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


Xenixx
Profile Joined June 2008
United States553 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 14:33:19
May 31 2026 14:32 GMT
#901
On May 31 2026 10:42 TT1 wrote:


I think any T is behind here only in the sense of tech, and I'd add that any advantage Flash had in this position, depending on when he pulls to nat, is relatively short lived. I think he'll be fighting up hill the entire rest of the game but I would totally agree that he's not absolutely behind so much that he needed to call it. A lot of comeback potential and possibility for a decisive play. I don't believe for a second that that position is totally unplayable for Flash of all people.

After the jinjin translations I think the only real answer is the mindset. Flash had no intention of ever going there and had tunnel vision, if you will, on how to play that scenario.

But thanks for finally typing out what the FOR position here has been saying over and over, only for the AGAINST position to stubbornly ignore and just roll out, but 'the pros said' and 4pool/5pool. And the Soma video is in no way definitive, he said multiple times, according to the translation, that he had no idea.

Hopefully there's enough time between when Flash analyzes his own game(s) here, especially 7, because I hope he just doesn't wave it off as a I made the decision I made, no point in second guessing it. I really think that when he saw that replay he kicked himself for the decisions he made.

Also, I haven't gone looking but Flash supposedly had an SCV at 6 somewhere so a scout for timings after a nat pull was in the wheelhouse. How interesting, if true.

And these people are somewhat missing the forest for the trees here, this is so interesting because no one has ever been in this situation before and we're excited to talk about what could have happened instead of what did.

Again, fascinating situation, series and season of ASL.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10627 Posts
May 31 2026 14:59 GMT
#902
On May 31 2026 10:42 TT1 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
BROOOo.,o you transfer to nat AFTER you see Z FINISH speed and the last 2 lings get in (T is blind so he cant know exactly what position hes in / what build Z did, but when you see speed thats when you know you cant hold your main), thats when you transfer to nat cus you literally cant defend with just 1 rax/no rines and lings trickling in (5 speed lings + 2 drones in main already vs no marine/1 rax production and youre trying to defend both main and nat? makes 0 sense, you cant fight for your main cus speed lings coming in >>>>>>>>> 1 marine production)

also he cant block the front with scvs AND defend both his main + nat cus his eco is too messed up, so the only way to stabilize is to run scvs to nat AFTER you see speed and those last 2 lings come in (cus you confirm youre in a bad spot/cant play greedy by retaking main), then you just focus on retaking main when you have enough rines WHILE defending front from more lings trickling in, ofc if it was only 3 slow lings and 2 drones w/ slow lings tricking in you can fight for your main but his decision to retake main came AFTER seeing speed, thats the point

lets look at the situation step by step, so Z is stuck in T main with 5 supply (starts with 3 lings + 2 drones > 2+ lings get in > 5 lings/3 supply of lings + 2 drones, this is when T should evacuate to nat and block front so i wont count the extra lings getting in after this), remove 5 supply from Z after the last 2 lings come in (cus this is when Flash should have locked the game down to prevent more lings from coming in, thats right after he confirmed Z had speed)

Z is 15 supply (pic below is when 4th and 5th ling get in w/ speed) and T is 18 supply, remove 5 supply from Z supply and its 10 vs 18, thats the position T COULD HAVE put himself in... and imo this is a pretty basic/straightforward response (im saying it like this cus thats what i was thinking while watching it, yes yes i understand that i could be wrong, G7 finals etc. but there's a different story thats being told right now), Flash should be doing that instinctively/automatically with just muscle memory imo

[image loading]


so T is in a position where he has 2 CC done, Z nat hatch hasnt started yet, Z has 5 supply stuck in T main (and thats after pulling drones/losing drones, plus hes making more lings but Flash doesnt know that, its a safe assumption to make based on drone pull tho) and 2 of them are drones.. in what world is T behind? you lift CC and land it at your choke right next to nat gas and start making scvs again, then when you have enough rines you retake main and continue playing

and the funny thing is he has multiple opportunities to go to his nat, when he was focused on fighting in his main then this happens

[image loading]


so now even more lings come in and hes still on 1 rax production and it becomes even worse, so those lings run in and then

[image loading]


he decides to a move 4 rines after he finally transfers his scvs to nat vs 7 speed lings

i dont understand whats there to argue about, his decisions made the situation worse for himself, his on the fly decision making was off based on what was happening on his screen, tbh when i look at these mistakes it looks like jinjin tier gameplay to me

like ya you can say stories about his mindset/mentality and how he wanted to approach the series but thats baby talk, next were gonna say that he miss rallied his marine out on purpose in that 8 rax vs 4p game, anyways i just think he played bad that last game in particular, pole star game i could understand cus it was stressful and he had way less time to think/react, it was a technical/micro mistake mainly, the game on matchpoint was a decision making mistake tho, unforced error, not forced like on pole star

This is what I've been saying the entire time but no one seems to want to engage with that, only talking about how FlaSh was losing when he GGed (no shit).

Even while his decision making wasn't optimal, his micro was really just not there. FlaSh has always had some suspect scv micro for being the GOAT tbh and it showed both in the Effort Game 5 and here against Soma in Game 7.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 20:19:28
May 31 2026 19:46 GMT
#903
Pros supposedly refused, so users went about and made UMS game and tested games. Between 2400 MMR users according to infos. Tested over 1st ling runby

https://www.youtube.com/live/jq7o6T15Ms4

This is organized users between S ranks (2400) of the situation, and it was concluded it was about 7:3 for Zerg favor at that point.

Lot of conclusion seems to be that lings had to be cleaned up at main rather than going to natural

Played over 500 balloons for game
Pros supposedly refused, so users went about and made UMS game and tested games. Between 2400 MMR users according to infos. Tested over 1st ling runby

https://www.youtube.com/live/jq7o6T15Ms4

This is organized users between S ranks (2400) of the situation, and it was concluded it was about 7:3 for Zerg favor at that point.

Played over 500 balloons for game

Lot of conclusion seems to be that lings had to be cleaned up at main rather than going to natural. Terran felt that he initially thought Terran was in playable position before testing, but felt that Zerg being able to get Lair at that point was huge. And that Drones could be saved when 2nd round of lings went in, so gap widened further. The long rush distance means 2 Rax academy timing afterwards don't work.

Zerg user (TemuSoma) felt that it was about 7:3 ahead for Zerg in that situation. He felt if he delayed main as long as possible with army in main, and opponent got 2rax, turrets won't go up very fast in time. But 2rax aca is almost forced in that situation, so Terran can't help but to get harassed by muta after that.

Zerg streamer link: https://www.sooplive.com/station/hn00414
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
3415 Posts
May 31 2026 20:16 GMT
#904
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:
Pros supposedly refused, so users went about and made UMS game and tested games. Between 2400 MMR users according to infos. Tested over 1st ling runby

https://www.youtube.com/live/jq7o6T15Ms4

This is organized users between S ranks (2400) of the situation, and it was concluded it was about 7:3 for Zerg favor at that point.

Lot of conclusion seems to be that lings had to be cleaned up at main rather than going to natural

Played over 500 balloons for game

Zerg user (TemuSoma) felt that it was about 7:3 ahead for Zerg in that situation. He felt if he delayed main as long as possible with army in main, and opponent got 2rax, turrets won't go up very fast in time. But 2rax aca is almost forced in that situation, so Terran can't help but to get harassed by muta after that.

Zerg streamer link: https://www.sooplive.com/station/hn00414

These dudes are nerds. But, but... they don't even put the bunker and the rax in the right positions... just why?
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 20:22:36
May 31 2026 20:19 GMT
#905
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:
Pros supposedly refused, so users went about and made UMS game and tested games. Between 2400 MMR users according to infos. Tested over 1st ling runby

https://www.youtube.com/live/jq7o6T15Ms4

This is organized users between S ranks (2400) of the situation, and it was concluded it was about 7:3 for Zerg favor at that point.

Lot of conclusion seems to be that lings had to be cleaned up at main rather than going to natural

Played over 500 balloons for game

Zerg user (TemuSoma) felt that it was about 7:3 ahead for Zerg in that situation. He felt if he delayed main as long as possible with army in main, and opponent got 2rax, turrets won't go up very fast in time. But 2rax aca is almost forced in that situation, so Terran can't help but to get harassed by muta after that.

Zerg streamer link: https://www.sooplive.com/station/hn00414

These dudes are nerds. But, but... they don't even put the bunker and the rax in the right positions... just why?


Well the battle on dcinside seems to be over how shit they played and how Zerg player is better than Terran

Terran also commented on that inaccuracy too, but he concluded it's just Zerg's ahead at that point, and Terran being in good position never happened once.
Xenixx
Profile Joined June 2008
United States553 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 20:34:53
May 31 2026 20:34 GMT
#906
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 20:38:03
May 31 2026 20:37 GMT
#907
On June 01 2026 05:34 Xenixx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.


They are both 2400 and terran didn't win a single game.
Xenixx
Profile Joined June 2008
United States553 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 20:48:14
May 31 2026 20:46 GMT
#908
On June 01 2026 05:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 05:34 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.


They are both 2400 and terran didn't win a single game.


The first game on the first link, he took. After that I stopped watching, too much knowledge about how to play here will corrupt the entire experiment, not strengthen it. It's good for what it is, but limited... 70:30 seems fair here.
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
May 31 2026 20:48 GMT
#909
On June 01 2026 05:46 Xenixx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 05:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:34 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.


They are both 2400 and terran didn't win a single game.


The first game on the first link, he took. After that I stopped watching, too much knowledge about how to play here will corrupt the entire experiment, not strengthen it. It's good for what it is, but limited...



lol, k.
Xenixx
Profile Joined June 2008
United States553 Posts
May 31 2026 21:00 GMT
#910
On June 01 2026 05:48 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 05:46 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:34 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.


They are both 2400 and terran didn't win a single game.


The first game on the first link, he took. After that I stopped watching, too much knowledge about how to play here will corrupt the entire experiment, not strengthen it. It's good for what it is, but limited...



lol, k.


So you're of the opinion that Terran, even Flash, absolutely cannot play from this position? It's utterly pointless? Despite seeing a game where a ~2400mmr Terran wins...

I don't understand your personal attachment to this case jinjin. You're not playing, it's not your tournament, why the emotional involvement? You can't even engage with the argument being made, let alone my argument, and at that point you have to ask, why are you arguing again?
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 21:06:29
May 31 2026 21:04 GMT
#911
On June 01 2026 06:00 Xenixx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 05:48 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:46 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:34 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.


They are both 2400 and terran didn't win a single game.


The first game on the first link, he took. After that I stopped watching, too much knowledge about how to play here will corrupt the entire experiment, not strengthen it. It's good for what it is, but limited...



lol, k.


So you're of the opinion that Terran, even Flash, absolutely cannot play from this position? It's utterly pointless? Despite seeing a game where a ~2400mmr Terran wins...

I don't understand your personal attachment to this case jinjin. You're not playing, it's not your tournament, why the emotional involvement? You can't even engage with the argument being made, let alone my argument, and at that point you have to ask, why are you arguing again?


That game was abandoned because the hatchery on main was made 1 tile too far so they replayed on melee instead of UMS
There's other inaccuracies to the map, but that's what they concluded and TemuSoma concluded after a lot of testing after those games
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
3415 Posts
May 31 2026 21:05 GMT
#912
I lost interest as soon as I saw they don't put the bunker and the rax in the same positions. That Terran player has a much bigger gap at his entrance than that of Flash. Kind of bizarre that they spent 2 hours and balloons playing that over and over again but couldn't bother to simulate it exactly.

But even with that, I'd take 70:30 for an answer. I mean, speed lings get into your main. Can't ask for much more of a chane.
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
3415 Posts
May 31 2026 21:06 GMT
#913
On June 01 2026 06:04 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 06:00 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:48 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:46 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:34 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.


They are both 2400 and terran didn't win a single game.


The first game on the first link, he took. After that I stopped watching, too much knowledge about how to play here will corrupt the entire experiment, not strengthen it. It's good for what it is, but limited...



lol, k.


So you're of the opinion that Terran, even Flash, absolutely cannot play from this position? It's utterly pointless? Despite seeing a game where a ~2400mmr Terran wins...

I don't understand your personal attachment to this case jinjin. You're not playing, it's not your tournament, why the emotional involvement? You can't even engage with the argument being made, let alone my argument, and at that point you have to ask, why are you arguing again?


That game was abandoned because the hatchery on main was made 1 tile too far so they replayed on melee instead of UMS

Yet no game was abandoned when the bunker is 1 tile to left and the rax is 1 tie up....
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 21:10:38
May 31 2026 21:07 GMT
#914
On June 01 2026 06:06 TMNT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2026 06:04 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 06:00 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:48 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:46 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:37 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:34 Xenixx wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:19 jinjin5000 wrote:
On June 01 2026 05:16 TMNT wrote:
On June 01 2026 04:46 jinjin5000 wrote:


The Terran player isn't good here and their strategy to play from this position is bizarre, and, thats the worst part. But this appears to be exactly what I said. If a low ranked ladder player can eek out some wins here, Flash gave up too early.


They are both 2400 and terran didn't win a single game.


The first game on the first link, he took. After that I stopped watching, too much knowledge about how to play here will corrupt the entire experiment, not strengthen it. It's good for what it is, but limited...



lol, k.


So you're of the opinion that Terran, even Flash, absolutely cannot play from this position? It's utterly pointless? Despite seeing a game where a ~2400mmr Terran wins...

I don't understand your personal attachment to this case jinjin. You're not playing, it's not your tournament, why the emotional involvement? You can't even engage with the argument being made, let alone my argument, and at that point you have to ask, why are you arguing again?


That game was abandoned because the hatchery on main was made 1 tile too far so they replayed on melee instead of UMS

Yet no game was abandoned when the bunker is 1 tile to left and the rax is 1 tie up....


I mean income being impacted is pretty damn huge. Much more huge than anything and only thing that could be immediately fixed without remaking map
And temusoma said after testing with others on other games, he came to those conclusion afterwards.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10111 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-06-01 03:53:05
May 31 2026 21:11 GMT
#915
what hes saying is true, if u wanna test u have to test in a non biased way and just compare the ecos, u cant play the game out because the gameplay isnt gonna be anywhere close to soma/flash

also the Z player knows what theyre testing so subconsciously or consciously hes gonna cut corners/play comfortably, cus he knows what T is gonna do exactly (so Soma for example made extra lings vs Flash, but the replicating Z might not make those lings etc., theres a lot of small stuff like that, or for example their follow ups might be completely different than what flash/soma would do in the scenario/timeline were talking about)

also the entire point isnt to say what % lead Z has exactly or if T is in a good or playable spot if he reacts "properly" (but yes the argument comes down to ur view on "proper play" so its subjective and we dunno the other details Flash might have been thinking about that could have impacted his decision making)

the point is to make the decisions that allow u to continue playing the game (its part of the process that makes Flash Flash, the best players the best players etc.), making decisions that put u in a bigger disadvantage is objectively bad (imo the moves Flash made was him hoping Soma would make a really really big micro mistake, very low % play basically at their lvl when theres not much else going on in the game) regardless of what ppl are saying about Flash's "approach" to the series, that to me is just bullshit

u play the game thats in front of u, ur not thinking about ur "approach" in a crisis situation, ur playing to stay alive and defend with max efficiency, ur just focused on whats in front of u

now ofc Flash is Flash so im sure he had his reasons on why he played the way he did, for me without knowing what went through his mind it just looks like a mistake/bad play, thats alll i can say, i cant go into his mind and assume what he was thinking, there could be details that only Flash knows that made him play that way etc., thats all true
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 21:17:35
May 31 2026 21:14 GMT
#916
On June 01 2026 06:11 TT1 wrote:
what hes saying is true, if u wanna test u have to test in a non biased way and just compare the ecos, u cant play the game out because the gameplay isnt gonna be anywhere close to soma/flash

also the Z player knows what theyre testing so subconsciously or consciously hes gonna cut corners/play comfortably, cus he knows what T is gonna do exactly (so Soma for example made extra lings vs Flash, but the replicating Z might not make those lings etc., theres a lot of small stuff like that)


I mean, then nothing's gonna resolve this then. People were arguing over pulling workers to natural at 1st ling runby ASAP and that's what they did. It's not ideal but it at least resolves question on if FlaSh was very ahead if he pulled to natural or that if he gg'd too early.
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
3415 Posts
May 31 2026 21:33 GMT
#917
Funny to see some English comments popping up under the video of the Korean Terran.

Also judging by the Korean comments under that video too, seems like the debate among Koreans is just as heated =))
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 21:39:55
May 31 2026 21:36 GMT
#918
On June 01 2026 06:33 TMNT wrote:
Funny to see some English comments popping up under the video of the Korean Terran.

Also judging by the Korean comments under that video too, seems like the debate among Koreans is just as heated =))


Well, on YouTube/DCinside side, it's a lot over FlaSh's crypto incident and hate over those. Its a lot of non-match factors playing very heavy factors. Like most of comments are straight up over crypto/coin scandal, hence comment section when FlaSh is involved in other progamer's YouTube channel is closed. Crypto scandal/coingate comments just dominate comment section no matter what

Only place you are gonna get FlaSh seen at least neutral/lesser bad light is in places like ygosu/fmkorea (sc section only-outside is mostly crypto comments). There they side more with Pro opinions.
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
3415 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-31 22:07:48
May 31 2026 22:06 GMT
#919
Ok so I took time to watch a couple of those "simulations", but what they and especially the Terran player did make little sense to me.

Not only does he put the Bunker and the Rax both 1 tile off, making the gaps at the entrance much wider, he barely puts anything there to block the gaps lol. I'm pretty sure if he wants, the Zerg could just mass lings, jump on the bunker and kill Terran immediately. But Zerg instead keeps running more lings via the right side gap into Terran's main, making it harder for T to clean up main.

This seems like not a good simulation to me, or the T player is just not up to the task here.

Anyway this is getting too silly now, now we're discussing 2400 players making poor replicates of the game... so I'll stop here.
Kraekkling
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
769 Posts
May 31 2026 22:16 GMT
#920
maybe we can contact them and ask them to do exactly what TMNT would want them to do?
(*^^)(^*)
Prev 1 44 45 46 47 48 51 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 220
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1517
Artosis 581
ProTech151
Snow 57
Barracks 41
910 36
LuMiX 5
Britney 0
League of Legends
JimRising 608
Counter-Strike
fl0m3281
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1019
AZ_Axe144
Other Games
summit1g9405
C9.Mang0279
WinterStarcraft203
PiGStarcraft197
NeuroSwarm137
Maynarde131
ViBE48
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV119
[ Show 8 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 31m
KCM Race Survival
6h 31m
WardiTV Invitational
8h 31m
Lambo vs Shameless
Rogue vs uThermal
Percival vs YoungYakov
TBD vs GgMaChine
OSC
12h 31m
OSC
19h 31m
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
1d 8h
OSC
1d 10h
OSC
1d 20h
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
2 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
3 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-11
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.