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United States10627 Posts
On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D
I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub.
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On May 29 2026 05:31 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub.
I can see a low skill terran instantly taking the decision of sending the scvs to the natural. In fact i see progamers defending 1 gate expansion zealot with 12h with pure drone micro in the mineral line and pulling it away at the last second. That is something i dont do cuz first of all im not confident in my micro to do that and second The latency i play usually is not kind to do last second tricks.
But lets be honest for a second here and just think from a pure Terran pov. Do you see 3 lings 2 drones that are most likely low HP after going through that bunker. In fact i think im regretting in saying i will take the option of evacuating the main instantly without fighting those 3 lings first without a try. Thats me coming from watch the casting and knowing the end result proly. Now something im for sure not doing is sending that marine like FlaSh did. But im not a terran player and i will proly be confident that my scvs could maybe with a good drill fight those lings. And not matter what i will be behind after that. KEKW
Didnt Jinjin did a video where scvs are killing hydras or something ? So the dumb in me would think for sure 3 lings i can deal with that LOL.
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On May 29 2026 04:47 TMNT wrote:
...
The whole point of me being in this debate is just that I don't think the game is in any way over after the first ling runby. If Flash evacuates to the nat, he may be behind (that is not even proven). But people from the opposite side of that argument act like it's still 100% over if he evacuates.
...
While this is true for some, it definitely isn't the general consensus. I'd say most people seem to agree the game wasn't lost after the initial runby, but there are also plenty who believe the game was still winnable when Flash actually tapped out.
In that sense I personally don't think there's any controversy at all. When the first runby happened, Flash weighed his options in the moment and decided to attempt to save his main. Both Flash & soma made the best calls they could with the information they had, just like in any other game. At the moment Flash gg'd the game was functionally over. Of course it's perfectly fine to discuss the decision making, however most people are just shocked Flash didn't play the game out to the bitter end and feel he prematurely gg'd.
Now most of the debate is just going in circles because most posters aren't clearly defining their baseline assumptions or just won't accept Flash losing.
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On May 29 2026 05:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2026 05:31 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub. I can see a low skill terran instantly taking the decision of sending the scvs to the natural. In fact i see progamers defending 1 gate expansion zealot with 12h with pure drone micro in the mineral line and pulling it away at the last second. That is something i dont do cuz first of all im not confident in my micro to do that and second The latency i play usually is not kind to do last second tricks. But lets be honest for a second here and just think from a pure Terran pov. Do you see 3 lings 2 drones that are most likely low HP after going through that bunker. In fact i think im regretting in saying i will take the option of evacuating the main instantly without fighting those 3 lings first without a try. Thats me coming from watch the casting and knowing the end result proly. Now something im for sure not doing is sending that marine like FlaSh did. But im not a terran player and i will proly be confident that my scvs could maybe with a good drill fight those lings. And not matter what i will be behind after that. KEKW Didnt Jinjin did a video where scvs are killing hydras or something ? So the dumb in me would think for sure 3 lings i can deal with that LOL.
Soma should've asserted true dominance and built a hatch just below Flash's main CC
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HERE ARE THE FINAL STATS OF FLASH AFTER ASL SEASON 21:
FLASH vs. TERRAN: 82.5 % winrate (33 W/7 L)
FLASH vs. PROTOSS: 82 % winrate (32 W/7 L)
FLASH vs. ZERG: 64.2 % winrate (43 W/24 L)
OVERALL WINRATE: 76.2 %
The second closest that there ever was - Effort with 63.8 % before ASL20 Ro8 (now at 61.5 %).
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United States10627 Posts
On May 29 2026 05:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2026 05:31 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub. I can see a low skill terran instantly taking the decision of sending the scvs to the natural. In fact i see progamers defending 1 gate expansion zealot with 12h with pure drone micro in the mineral line and pulling it away at the last second. That is something i dont do cuz first of all im not confident in my micro to do that and second The latency i play usually is not kind to do last second tricks. But lets be honest for a second here and just think from a pure Terran pov. Do you see 3 lings 2 drones that are most likely low HP after going through that bunker. In fact i think im regretting in saying i will take the option of evacuating the main instantly without fighting those 3 lings first without a try. Thats me coming from watch the casting and knowing the end result proly. Now something im for sure not doing is sending that marine like FlaSh did. But im not a terran player and i will proly be confident that my scvs could maybe with a good drill fight those lings. And not matter what i will be behind after that. KEKW Didnt Jinjin did a video where scvs are killing hydras or something ? So the dumb in me would think for sure 3 lings i can deal with that LOL.
3 lings and 2 drones might not be the scariest when they're not speedlings, but they are speedlings. So it makes the defense all that more tricky. For sure you cannot do what FlaSh do and run scvs out in the open trying to take fights. If he wanted to try, he should've tried drilling in the main mineral line after sending SCVs back to mine and take the fight there. But again the problem is trying to run marines back to reinforce as they would likely get picked off running between the nat to the main just like that one marine did.
I think the main issue really is the marine running out in no-mans land when the extra 2 lings come in from behind to ambush it. If FlaSh could've at least secured 2-3 marines with his SCVs, he has a chance to kill the lings. Once he lost that marine, Soma's force inside his main began to snowball.
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Flash was obviously on muscle memory when he tried to defend the main. As does anyone who advocates that solution, because we tend to think in the conventional way:
- Giving up main is only acceptable when dealing with 4-5 pool <-- forgetting that in 4-5 pool you have to float your CC to nat to continue mining, while here you have another CC
- Giving up main = giving up everything else there <-- forgetting that there is nothing in the main for Zerg to damage
The only seemingly reasonable loss (number of mineral patches) does not apply because of undersaturation.
So essentially, the act of moving all SCVs to the nat in this case is more similar to running from a reaver drop, rather than giving up the main base in the traditional sense.
In fact, the essence of the act is to gather all your resouces to protect the nat, because if nat falls (by runby) then main falls. Maybe if we put it that way more people would be convinced.
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On May 29 2026 06:22 Artas1984 wrote:
HERE ARE THE FINAL STATS OF FLASH AFTER ASL SEASON 21:
FLASH vs. TERRAN: 82.5 % winrate (33 W/7 L)
FLASH vs. PROTOSS: 82 % winrate (32 W/7 L)
FLASH vs. ZERG: 64.2 % winrate (43 W/24 L)
OVERALL WINRATE: 76.2 %
The second closest that there ever was - Effort with 63.8 % before ASL20 Ro8 (now at 61.5 %).
Effort was the second most complete player in the ASL era
But even then, Protosses figured him out
Even Soulkey was never dominant at ZvZ during his 4 peat
Goes to show how difficult being a well rounded player is
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On May 29 2026 05:31 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub.
actually ur right, flash's decision making is really bad and his micro is horrendous. luck gave him a 75% asl win-rate and a place at the finals.
on a serious note, to quote yourself:
Grudge match bo7? You talk too much for 0 substance and only know how to feign superiority.
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United States10627 Posts
On May 29 2026 14:51 A.Alm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2026 05:31 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub. actually ur right, flash's decision making is really bad and his micro is horrendous. luck gave him a 75% asl win-rate and a place at the finals. on a serious note, to quote yourself: Grudge match bo7? You talk too much for 0 substance and only know how to feign superiority.
Sure let's set it up. Has to be a weekend since you're in Europe. What's your race? Use ASL finals map pool for the order?
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On May 29 2026 15:13 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2026 14:51 A.Alm wrote:On May 29 2026 05:31 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub. actually ur right, flash's decision making is really bad and his micro is horrendous. luck gave him a 75% asl win-rate and a place at the finals. on a serious note, to quote yourself: Grudge match bo7? You talk too much for 0 substance and only know how to feign superiority. Sure let's set it up. Has to be a weekend since you're in Europe. What's your race? Use ASL finals map pool for the order?
Awesome.
Maps are fine, I'm T. U?
can u play next weekend? 6-7th
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plz post the replays or someth
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Netherlands5999 Posts
16 years after Chill vs Combat-Ex. Is this a dream?
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On May 29 2026 16:41 Peeano wrote:
16 years after Chill vs Combat-Ex. Is this a dream?
I'll bring Bear Seamen, you fix your game colors - the grudge is coming! \o/
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Netherlands5999 Posts
Chill vs Combat-Ex: The Sequel
Ro4 Flash vs Light: Reimagined
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51718 Posts
On May 29 2026 15:13 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2026 14:51 A.Alm wrote:On May 29 2026 05:31 FlaShFTW wrote:On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D I think the instinct is to want to clear them sure, but you can't do it with just SCVs and 1 singular marine that's not protected well. FlaSh's SCV micro was pretty horrendous the entire series so he made critical mistakes, but played as if his SCV micro was good. It's like watching B rankers try to play with shuttle reaver and do Snow strats when they don't have the micro to execute. For sure trying to clear out the initial 3 lings and 2 drones is something that goes through everyone's mind but the threat of further runbys, as we saw, is also a high priority to stop more lings from entering your base. You need to turn off the faucet before you start draining the bathtub. actually ur right, flash's decision making is really bad and his micro is horrendous. luck gave him a 75% asl win-rate and a place at the finals. on a serious note, to quote yourself: Grudge match bo7? You talk too much for 0 substance and only know how to feign superiority. Sure let's set it up. Has to be a weekend since you're in Europe. What's your race? Use ASL finals map pool for the order?
What are you betting here?
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On May 29 2026 04:50 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Also i have to say as a zerg player to me the right decision when the lings enter the main and do you notice zergling speed upgrade is done is to give up the main momentarily.
But as a Terran player. With a working terran Brain. Playing in the dark no info at all. Do you really will take that decision when do you see 3 zerglings and 2 drones in your main ? IDk i have the feeling that as a terran u proly think that you can deal with that no ? lol
I know Artosis as a terran instantly called it but he is watching both pov. He knows the build and everything.
But as a Terran from being in the dark i wonder if you actually act different than FlaSh did when the amount of lings is very small.
Cuz imo thats what trigger this mess for FlaSh. Do you see 3 lings and 2 drones and you are like well i think i can actually deal with this.
Where is Koget / Spx when do you need them .. :D
People haven’t talked about this but I said in my last post the key advantage of evacuating to natural is you can focus on plugging the holes in your natural which was the absolute top priority in that situation since Flash knew speed was done.
By fighting in your main your attention gets divided, there is no way in hell any pro manages to defend main with SCV drills and have the capacity to pay attention to the nat for a ling runby in that specific situation where there were multiple holes in the natural wall.
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I'm glad things are solved here the old fashioned way
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We need some live casters in here. This finals keeps on giving.
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Northern Ireland27479 Posts
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EPT
