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TMNT
3247 Posts
On May 27 2026 20:02 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Brother if FlaSh actually send all his scvs to his natural Soma could have even made a Hatchery inside flash main and build sunkens to that natural xD. he had drones inside that main afterall :D That would be one way to throw the game for Soma. | ||
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Soft_General_5023
140 Posts
On May 27 2026 23:54 TMNT wrote: That would be one way to throw the game for Soma. Bet your house on it? Seriously Come On. Saying that it's 100% throw without hesitation your level of confidence and starcraft knowledge is on another level, you should mentor Flash. If he build offensive hatch instead of in nat, how many marines it takes to kill building hatchery? Killing offensiive gas takes forever. And once sunken is up how do marines without range, stim and medics do against sunkens? | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10528 Posts
On May 28 2026 00:40 Soft_General_5023 wrote: Bet your house on it? Seriously Come On. Saying that it's 100% throw without hesitation your level of confidence and starcraft knowledge is on another level, you should mentor Flash. If he build offensive hatch instead of in nat, how many marines it takes to kill building hatchery? Killing offensiive gas takes forever. And once sunken is up how do marines without range, stim and medics do against sunkens? Please explain how Soma will be able to afford sunkens with a hatchery that will take 75 seconds to build. Soma was dirt broke when his natural hatchery started with 5 drones mining minerals lmao but apparently he can easily afford leapfrogging sunkens. | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2941 Posts
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Soft_General_5023
140 Posts
On May 28 2026 00:56 FlaShFTW wrote: Please explain how Soma will be able to afford sunkens with a hatchery that will take 75 seconds to build. Soma was dirt broke when his natural hatchery started with 5 drones mining minerals lmao but apparently he can easily afford leapfrogging sunkens. He can build "ninja" hatch right above nat's gas, thats buildable right? one sunken would cover gas and some mining even no leapfrogging | ||
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Creager
Germany1948 Posts
On May 28 2026 01:08 Smorrie wrote: Most excitement on TL since the Maru as SC2 GOAT over Serral debate lol Agreed, I'm just leaning back, nibbling away on the popcorn and pressing F5. | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
606 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7009 Posts
The way i see it is that FlaSh will need to clean the main. but he is also need to be aware of more lings coming to his natural. And then if he discover later on that hatchery he will be force to use scvs marines to deal with lings + potential more lings sunks while also having the need to worry about the front and the potential of lings attack. Obviously from any choice that Soma could bring this one is the most risky one and totally no really worth doing considering the risk. Cuz if flash actually decided to play 2 barracks straight up`and refinery academy. Then a counter attack is instantly killing Soma in that situation ? | ||
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Soft_General_5023
140 Posts
![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/PDsgRva) https://imgur.com/a/PDsgRva How do you embed image into this? Can't make it work. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10528 Posts
On May 28 2026 02:04 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: The funny is that by doing a ninja hatchery initially his eco is actually working better since he is using a drone that was already out compared to using a drone that was mining in his minerals. The way i see it is that FlaSh will need to clean the main. but he is also need to be aware of more lings coming to his natural. And then if he discover later on that hatchery he will be force to use scvs marines to deal with lings + potential more lings sunks while also having the need to worry about the front and the potential of lings attack. Obviously from any choice that Soma could bring this one is the most risky one and totally no really worth doing considering the risk. Cuz if flash actually decided to play 2 barracks straight up`and refinery academy. Then a counter attack is instantly killing Soma in that situation ? Had FlaSh evacuated to the natural immediately after first runby, he could pull a couple SCVs to manage the wall while pumping marines nonstop as he would immediately get back mineral income as his natural SCVs that were holding the first rush could begin mining again. Even let's say that Soma build the natural hatch immediately, it would take 75 seconds, followed by creep colony which is 12 seconds, then morph to sunken which takes 12. That's a total of 99 seconds. A marine takes 15 seconds, which FlaSh would've had 2 marines in the bunker plus a 3rd one making, but let's just say he just started the marines. He would have 6 more marines produced in that time frame for a total of 8 marines now. Let's say that FlaSh needs to keep at least 3 marines in the bunker to prevent runbys and pressure. Plus Soma would have only 3 lings at that point as any further lings running by would've been blocked, which 5 marines would deal with plus an additional couple of SCVs if FlaSh needed to pull a few. I think proxy hatch is actually the most troll decision, plus FlaSh would be floating his main CC to the natural and it wouldve given him vision of a proxy hatch. | ||
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2_2
Poland40 Posts
edit: not just that, they both lost Bo1 to JD and Bo7 to Soma, and both won a 4 terran group. | ||
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
from there, the point is to make the best decisions that give u the opportunity to come back into the game based on the situation, the decisions he took were obvious losing moves, for example when u a move 4-5 slow rines into ur main with no scv support vs speedlings it's obvious that ur gonna lose the fight it's basically a math question there cus u can calculate the outcome based on what u have vs what he has, so why make the decision to protect main there (at least not that early, he needed to stabilize + consolidate/hold at his nat + he needs a bigger marine count)? it's a losing decision on multiple fronts, both from winning the fight in ur main and the other being u have to defend ur front door vs lings as well basically just a big big donkey move that u wouldnt expect Flash to make, its good for ppl to see Flash making these type of mistakes tho, shows that every1 gets nervous no matter who u are/how much experience or prep u have | ||
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tassadar_slipper
2 Posts
On May 28 2026 03:42 FlaShFTW wrote: Had FlaSh evacuated to the natural immediately after first runby, he could pull a couple SCVs to manage the wall while pumping marines nonstop as he would immediately get back mineral income as his natural SCVs that were holding the first rush could begin mining again. Even let's say that Soma build the natural hatch immediately, it would take 75 seconds, followed by creep colony which is 12 seconds, then morph to sunken which takes 12. That's a total of 99 seconds. A marine takes 15 seconds, which FlaSh would've had 2 marines in the bunker plus a 3rd one making, but let's just say he just started the marines. He would have 6 more marines produced in that time frame for a total of 8 marines now. Let's say that FlaSh needs to keep at least 3 marines in the bunker to prevent runbys and pressure. Plus Soma would have only 3 lings at that point as any further lings running by would've been blocked, which 5 marines would deal with plus an additional couple of SCVs if FlaSh needed to pull a few. I think proxy hatch is actually the most troll decision, plus FlaSh would be floating his main CC to the natural and it wouldve given him vision of a proxy hatch. Soma drones mining gold minerals in BW. Sounds like ~ 600 minerals for a hail mary play off of 4-5 drones in Soma's main. Absolute insanity and no follow up potential. IF Soma had canceled his hatch in his natural that he put down seconds earlier? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10528 Posts
On May 28 2026 04:08 tassadar_slipper wrote: Soma drones mining gold minerals in BW. Sounds like ~ 600 minerals for a hail mary play off of 4-5 drones in Soma's main. Absolute insanity and no follow up potential. IF Soma had canceled his hatch in his natural that he put down seconds earlier? Soma's 5 drones actually mine out 1500 patches instantly like giga mules from SC2. I think the people talking about proxy hatch are saying instead of starting natural hatch, as soon as the runby happened he would drop a hatch in Flash's base in the event that FlaSh evacuated the main to the natural. | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States740 Posts
See.. Flash went mech because in practice, despite all his optimization and prep, he couldn't figure out how to stop the parasite rush onto the vessel. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4757 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7009 Posts
On May 28 2026 05:13 Malinor wrote: The proxy hatch talk is indeed a bit silly. Cannot say for certain that it would not have worked, but I find this to be extremely unlikely. Not enough money coming in for Soma at that point in time. All this talk is silly cuz we know flash decision making concluded in a defeat. With that said. Proxy hatch instead of hatchery at the natural i can see that working more than flash winning the game from sending his scvs to the natural instead of defending the main. And the reason is simple. Flash is in the dark the whole game. I saw that flashftw said something about sending the Main CC to the natural and spotting the hatchery but i doubt it. Why will you fly that CC far away from the mining spot so can u lift it down instantly and get back to mining. Is not like that natural is huge anyway. I dont think u moving that CC to make extra scvs. Specially when SCV count wasnt exactly the big concern. But like i said this is just another option SOma could have used and from all the options is the least likely one. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10528 Posts
On May 28 2026 05:25 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: All this talk is silly cuz we know flash decision making concluded in a defeat. With that said. Proxy hatch instead of hatchery at the natural i can see that working more than flash winning the game from sending his scvs to the natural instead of defending the main. And the reason is simple. Flash is in the dark the whole game. I saw that flashftw said something about sending the Main CC to the natural and spotting the hatchery but i doubt it. Why will you fly that CC far away from the mining spot so can u lift it down instantly and get back to mining. Is not like that natural is huge anyway. I dont think u moving that CC to make extra scvs. Specially when SCV count wasnt exactly the big concern. But like i said this is just another option SOma could have used and from all the options is the least likely one. The farther the hatch is from where the sunken would be in range of anything, the more time and resources Soma would be required to spend. Resources that he clearly did not really have at his disposal with his awful drone count. FlaSh would've also tried to retake the main as soon as possible, which I would expect to happen probably around 5-6 total marines (2-3 in the bunker, the rest marching into the main with 2-3 scvs to block). So the hatch wouldn't be done by that point anyways. I think this possibility out of all the possibilities is one of the least likely and lowest win % for Soma. He should've just either dropped his nat hatch faster or started lair immediately upon 100 gas since he clearly had mineral bank. Alas, both players made mistakes which is to be expected in a very chaotic game state. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7009 Posts
At the end of the day this is just theory and execution. I remember watching JD reaction to SOma plan in the last game and he didnt agree with what SOma was doing at all. But that actually worked wonderful lol. | ||
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TMNT
3247 Posts
The next 2 lings (that follow the first pack) kill the second marine at exactly 3:48. That marine shouldn't have died and those 2 lings shouldn't have entered the main to kill it. The third marine pops at 3:53 with the 4th already in production and 82 minerals in the bank for Flash. If he mines nat, which allows him to produce marines constantly, then the fourth would pop at 4:08 - fifth 4:23 - sixth 4:38 - seven 4:53 - eight 5:08... He doesn't need extra depot as he's already at 18/36. Leave 3 marines in bunker, plug the holes. Go reclaim the main with 3 marines + a couple of SCVs (surely Flash would be able to micro that?). That mean he'd be able to do it at around 4:45 and find out about a ninja Hatch if any. By that time the Hatch would be morphing for about 60s. Soma would look like a clown. I was being generous when I said reclaiming the main takes 2 minutes max. It should be 90s max. By that time he wouldn't even saturate the 7 patches at the nat because some SCVs have to plug the holes regardless of what he does. Virtually no econ loss. Tell me if my maths are wrong? Actually, look in the actual game, at 4:45 when he's about to gg he has 4 marines in the main plus I assume 1 in the bunker and 1 already dead - that's exactly 6 marines in total, even with his trash mining in the main the whole time. Yeah, pretty sure my maths are correct. Anyone saying Flash would have to give up his main for several minutes is just saying it on a hunch, without digging in depth into the actual state of the game. | ||
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