EPTOn March 01 2022 18:54 RowdierBob wrote:
Mini and Royal.
Mini and Royal.
Well played, me.
[ASL13] Ro16 Group A - Page 10
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
Recommended Games + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [Game 1] + + Show Spoiler [Game 2] + + Show Spoiler [Winners Game] + + Show Spoiler [Losers Game] + + Show Spoiler [Final Game] + | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia12997 Posts
Well played, me. | ||
|
Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Any outcome was plausible with this group! | ||
|
Lazyer
United States341 Posts
Mini's PvT style is so erratic - carriers, mass HT w/o upgrades, DT run by LOL. By contrast, there were a bunch of instances where Rain would just pick off random tanks and just be super ahead. Forgot to put my LB in time for this one, but I'm rooting for Rain to take this ASL. | ||
|
hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
| ||
|
Galacsia
Chile157 Posts
| ||
|
RKC
2848 Posts
On March 02 2022 02:13 TMNT wrote: Obviously he wanted to challenge himself with that group, while giving his friend Shuttle an easier group. Had he wanted an easy group, he would have picked ggaemo first, then switch one of the "weaker" Terran/Zerg, or any of the Protoss (except Rain) to his group. The pool is already stacked. Even with an easy first pick, the groups would still be evenly balanced. And the best way to challenge oneself is to advance and play BO5 against the top players. It's understandable if mini intends to play this season differently - more solidly (ala Flash trying funky TvZ builds in the penultimate season before switching to random). But here, mini is just sticking to the surprising bag of builds approach like previous two seasons. The 6DT against Light in the first game is really cool (but should've been reserved for later stages). Maybe he's trying to play mind games from the start, but he's just making his entire journey through the tournament unnecessarily more difficult by playing predictably by his own standards (by playing unpredictably). A better mind game would be to play more 'normally' in the group stage and then go crazy in the knockouts - which would mean choosing easier opponents. Sorry for being critical, but I have really been rooting for mini past two seasons. Just so disappointing that a 'big brain' player can make such sub-optimal decisions. Honestly, I don't think it's a matter of wanting to challenge or prove himself, but to give himself some excuse for losing this season. Want to prove yourself? Then just win multiple ASL like Zero and Flash* first. * Flash can do whatever he wants because, well, he's Flash and won so much already. mini somehow thinks the same way with just a single ASL win. (Also, despite mini losing to Light, I actually feel mini could've won in a straight-up BO5 series in the knockouts with more focused prep. And surely defeating a top Terran like Light that way is more satisfying and a bigger challenge. So I still don't get the logic of intentionally picking Light in the group.) | ||
|
Sirris
681 Posts
Also as I said earlier I think Mini had a lot of confidence and wanted to eliminate potential threats so as not to face them in bo5. If you get all the strong players in your group and make it through you won't have to face them until much later, or never. It didn't work out for him though. | ||
|
ggsimida
1146 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:29 Galacsia wrote: I'm glad Light made it out. It kind of rubs me the wrong way how much the foreign community goes crazy over some players like Mini, Rain or Snow. And out of those 3, I like Rain the best, so I'm happy with the way this ASL is going so far. the most vocal are certainly protoss players themselves yea, and naturally they tend to hate zerg too. snow is defo overrated but mini deserves credit for his more creative approach to his gameplay and rain's all around gameplay is just so solid that even protoss haters will respect him.. | ||
|
Sirris
681 Posts
On March 02 2022 15:51 ggsimida wrote: the most vocal are certainly protoss players themselves yea, and naturally they tend to hate zerg too. snow is defo overrated but mini deserves credit for his more creative approach to his gameplay and rain's all around gameplay is just so solid that even protoss haters will respect him.. Not a protoss hater, not a lover, but I have to admit Rain is looking like a favorite to win this season. So much "talent". I only put it in quotes because I'm not sure what it is about Rain. But he has something special. | ||
|
RKC
2848 Posts
On March 02 2022 15:49 Sirris wrote: I disagree that Mini's dt run by gambit was sub optimal. Light had godly reactions to the 2 dts that ran by. I'm sure Mini practiced this quite a bit and had a lot of success. Light is just another level above most(or all?) terrans today. As I mentioned earlier his instant reaction and just the technical skill of getting all of his scvs around that one turret saved him the game. Something Mini was not anticipating I'm sure. I think it was a build that had a lot of potential. Light just played really well against it. Also as I said earlier I think Mini had a lot of confidence and wanted to eliminate potential threats so as not to face them in bo5. If you get all the strong players in your group and make it through you won't have to face them until much later, or never. It didn't work out for him though. By sub-optimal, I was referring to his overall gameplan of picking strong opponents (Light) in his group. I liked the 6DT build - only gripe is that he should've hid the build until the knockout. If he was playing a weaker Terran, he would not need to reveal the build. | ||
|
RKC
2848 Posts
On March 02 2022 15:53 Sirris wrote: Not a protoss hater, not a lover, but I have to admit Rain is looking like a favorite to win this season. So much "talent". I only put it in quotes because I'm not sure what it is about Rain. But he has something special. Rain is my fave. He may lack the flashiness of Bisu and mini. But he has that Flash-esque 'star sense' in his gameplay that's mesmerising to watch. His timings are so crisp and intuitive. I don't quite entirely understand how he turns some seemingly lost games around. But he plays with such calm precision as if sees the game in a different way and level beyond us mere noob viewers. | ||
|
Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
| ||
|
endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
 | ||
|
De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On March 02 2022 12:29 Galacsia wrote: I'm glad Light made it out. It kind of rubs me the wrong way how much the foreign community goes crazy over some players like Mini, Rain or Snow. And out of those 3, I like Rain the best, so I'm happy with the way this ASL is going so far. How can you blame people for liking Mini? From his balls to the walls playstyle to emotional reactions. He brings the entertainment and has championship level skills to back it up. RIP Mini | ||
|
Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On March 02 2022 15:49 Sirris wrote: Also as I said earlier I think Mini had a lot of confidence and wanted to eliminate potential threats so as not to face them in bo5. If you get all the strong players in your group and make it through you won't have to face them until much later, or never. It didn't work out for him though. If you're favored against someone, then you'd rather face them in a Bo5 than a Bo1, since a Bo5 amplifies the skill difference. If you're unfavored against someone, your best strategy is to face them in a Bo1 and hope to get good luck. I don't think there's a way to rationalize Mini's choice to pick Light as maximizing Mini's chance to win the ASL. If he's favored against Light, then it's best to wait for a Bo5. If he's unfavored, he shouldn't take Light at all. The best play to maximize your chances at a gold medal is simply to take the weakest opponents available and try to limit the number of matchups you need to prepare for, which is what Flash always did. (1T, 3Z or 4T, for example.) I'm not calling Mini stupid. I'm just saying that he must have been optimizing around something else too. Maybe you get more career visibility points ( = viewers = $$) for breaking out of a killer group, and he thought it was worth the gamble, or something like that. Or maybe he's just such a sportsman that he didn't feel like using his outsized power over the Ro16 to favor himself. Who knows. | ||
|
Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
| ||
|
Artas1984
Lithuania117 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
|
RKC
2848 Posts
On March 05 2022 14:24 Djabanete wrote: If you're favored against someone, then you'd rather face them in a Bo5 than a Bo1, since a Bo5 amplifies the skill difference. If you're unfavored against someone, your best strategy is to face them in a Bo1 and hope to get good luck. I don't think there's a way to rationalize Mini's choice to pick Light as maximizing Mini's chance to win the ASL. If he's favored against Light, then it's best to wait for a Bo5. If he's unfavored, he shouldn't take Light at all. The best play to maximize your chances at a gold medal is simply to take the weakest opponents available and try to limit the number of matchups you need to prepare for, which is what Flash always did. (1T, 3Z or 4T, for example.) I'm not calling Mini stupid. I'm just saying that he must have been optimizing around something else too. Maybe you get more career visibility points ( = viewers = $$) for breaking out of a killer group, and he thought it was worth the gamble, or something like that. Or maybe he's just such a sportsman that he didn't feel like using his outsized power over the Ro16 to favor himself. Who knows. Fully agreed on the strategic advantage of picking on weaker opponents. Besides, even if one feels confident taking on their closest competitors, why tire oneself needlessly and reveal one's peak play to others? Playing more games against top opponents increases the risk of being taken down by a more rested opponent who's seen more of your games than you've seen theirs. But perhaps mini was quite content with his group because (1) he doesn't feel confident with PvZ (due to maps and Zerg players being super committed to taking him down); and (2) he doesn't see much difference in skill between the Terran players (eg Rush and JyJ) or even somehow rate Light as an easier opponent to prep against (based on current form). Since the group turned out with 2T and 2P, he was quite happy to use his pick to help his friend Shuttle instead. All in all, not entirely optimal, but still rational. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Light played a great series vs Mini's crazy antics, especially the last game. Hopefully he's able to make it far this ASL, and maybe finally grab an ASL win for himself. Guess time will tell. | ||
| ||
