Viewership and regrowth of Broodwar - Page 4

On January 06 2017 09:01 Letmelose wrote:


It is disgusting for those to put down the efforts of the donations of people such as yourself, while doing nothing of substance and simply saying there should be more content, or more sponsorship, and trying to get the moral high ground by judging the imperfections of the current scene. That was what was making me furious.

I've never had the time to thank the people who helped sustain the scene throughout the hard times. I don't know how much you donated. But it doesn't matter. The fact that you donated at all puts you above most of the people around here, and gives you the right to have at least some say without being total hypocrite.

1) As one of the many who spent his effort, time, and money without any return, just out of the love for the game, you must realize if every single one of people who claim to have loved Brood War dedicated themselves this much in the first place, we wouldn't be in this predicament. It's hard to sustain the living of so many people with donations alone, even with the generosity of people like yourself.
2) Investment is a such an easy catch phrase to say if it's not your own money involved in it. Sure it's a great idea, if someone else with tons of money does the investing. It was a great idea before, and ever since the investment stopped taking place. It's good to hope for it, work for it, but saying it should be in place is such an entitled thing to say. If large corporate investment was worth fighting for so much, we wouldn't have seen Blizzard have such an easy time ending it. If investment was such an easy thing to gain (on a large scale like there used to do), we would have seen it by now.
3) We lose people of incredible value all the time, it's what happens in a scene that is not growing. How do we support everyone and everything of worth, unless it's not out of our own pockets? Oh right, that's what's already happening, and people with more popularity are getting the overwhelming percentage of those donations.
4) People say nasty things. People turn on their heroes once they have full control over their income, and don't get what they want in return. It's what this scene has devolved into. It's been that way forever, and people were totally passive when they had the only timing in their lives to prevent that from happening. Is it okay for us to judge those who have donated their hard earned money without any return just because we think Kim Carrier needed more respect? Where was the respect when his career as a caster got ended? Why does Flash need to share his income with legends like Kim Carrier? Why is all the responsibility to bring this scene to greater heights on the shoulders of people who have not been the cause of all this limitation, but the shining light despite these limitations?
5) Say what you want about Terror[fOu], I think he has been beneficial for the overall scene. Perhaps he will use his popularity he gained through streaming on Afreeca to help the growth of the current Brood War scene. But it is not up for us to decide, or demand.

People all say they want more for Brood War. As one of the few who actually did stuff instead of being a complaining, useless dead weight that did nothing to actually support the scene and the players financially (myself included), thank you for your input. The mere fact that you donated any amount makes your opinions and passion for the scene a million times more valuable than mine.

On January 06 2017 09:47 SirGlinG wrote:


Do you think we should not discuss this at all because we are not TBLS? How else do we talk about it in that case? How else is any discussion of a nations financial possibilities or companys growth put to action?
We are all here members of a forum, the premise is that we are only just that, this discussion is based on that level, therafter we all put our information together to form a bigger picture. That's what I'm here for, you part in this thread has been thankful because you have added more information. But your idea of what can or can not talk of makes the idea of forums sound impossible. I will discuss and I will ask questions. Deal with it?

On January 06 2017 12:40 GTR wrote:
the problem is there is absolutely no incentive for kids to play brood war when league and overwatch are the games to play if you want to make it big in korea e-sports wise.

On January 06 2017 10:37 Letmelose wrote:


If a constructive disccusion took place, and most of the comments were about how we can help the scene further, and how we should find ways make this all better, I would have been much more greatful in my tone of voice.

Instead, I got triggered when people just started to point out all the flaws in the scene, and seemed to demand certain things from the donators, or the streamers themselves as if they were entitled to such opinions without providing any solutions themselves. Considering how all this active discussion is taking place because of the donations that kept the careers of these streamers alive after people left it for dead, I thought it was incredibly arrogant of people to suggest Flash shouldn't receive the donations he gets, or how the current scene was unsustainable. I expressed my frustrations not just on the current state of the scene, but the way in which some people who did nothing to help it in times of need started to voice their discontent on how the way things are currently. Deal with it.

On January 05 2017 23:29 shadymmj wrote:
as a flash fan, i think theres a problem with him earning 25k a month from streaming and other b-c level players getting one-tenth of that.

there needs to be a bit of organisation so that the 20~ streamers around now can all make a decent living for sustainability's sake. no point having TBLS making big money and the rest of them just quitting.

On January 06 2017 04:47 BisuDagger wrote:


I guess I can speak since I've put more money into the scene then I've earned from it, countless free hours of news content and streaming, donated money to Korean players and casters within the past year, seeked Korean sponsors (and still do despite not knowing any Korean) and has remained active even after the SC2 move:

1. I 100% agree we cannot dictate where people put their money. I am a supporter of people spending money how they want.
2. What we can do is certainly encourage fans to pool their money to create something more then just sponsored matches. There is value to be gained if we were able to show the top earners how valuable it is to invest in other players.
3. Important figures such as KCM uses his own savings to sponsor matches such as KCM and gets nothing in return. While that's donator's choice, it's unsustainable for him and then we lose someone who is very important to the scene as he adds age, wisdom, and the tenacity to pursue sponsors.
4. Failure to support Kim Carrier and in fact certain people have said nasty things to him has pushed him away from the scene too. We can certainly work towards creating a friendlier environment towards people who have put in the effort outside of playing the game.
5. Clan creations such as Moo and Neox are actually great steps forward into creating team/family environments where players practice and depend on each other and get competitive with other clans

On January 06 2017 09:47 SirGlinG wrote:


Do you think we should not discuss this at all because we are not TBLS? How else do we talk about it in that case? How else is any discussion of a nations financial possibilities or companys growth put to action?
We are all here members of a forum, the premise is that we are only just that, this discussion is based on that level, therafter we all put our information together to form a bigger picture. That's what I'm here for, you part in this thread has been thankful because you have added more information. But your idea of what can or can not talk of makes the idea of forums sound impossible. I will discuss and I will ask questions. Deal with it?

On January 06 2017 09:01 Letmelose wrote:


It is disgusting for those to put down the efforts of the donations of people such as yourself, while doing nothing of substance and simply saying there should be more content, or more sponsorship, and trying to get the moral high ground by judging the imperfections of the current scene. That was what was making me furious.

I've never had the time to thank the people who helped sustain the scene throughout the hard times. I don't know how much you donated. But it doesn't matter. The fact that you donated at all puts you above most of the people around here, and gives you the right to have at least some say without being total hypocrite.

1) As one of the many who spent his effort, time, and money without any return, just out of the love for the game, you must realize if every single one of people who claim to have loved Brood War dedicated themselves this much in the first place, we wouldn't be in this predicament. It's hard to sustain the living of so many people with donations alone, even with the generosity of people like yourself.
2) Investment is a such an easy catch phrase to say if it's not your own money involved in it. Sure it's a great idea, if someone else with tons of money does the investing. It was a great idea before, and ever since the investment stopped taking place. It's good to hope for it, work for it, but saying it should be in place is such an entitled thing to say. If large corporate investment was worth fighting for so much, we wouldn't have seen Blizzard have such an easy time ending it. If investment was such an easy thing to gain (on a large scale like there used to do), we would have seen it by now.
3) We lose people of incredible value all the time, it's what happens in a scene that is not growing. How do we support everyone and everything of worth, unless it's not out of our own pockets? Oh right, that's what's already happening, and people with more popularity are getting the overwhelming percentage of those donations.
4) People say nasty things. People turn on their heroes once they have full control over their income, and don't get what they want in return. It's what this scene has devolved into. It's been that way forever, and people were totally passive when they had the only timing in their lives to prevent that from happening. Is it okay for us to judge those who have donated their hard earned money without any return just because we think Kim Carrier needed more respect? Where was the respect when his career as a caster got ended? Why does Flash need to share his income with legends like Kim Carrier? Why is all the responsibility to bring this scene to greater heights on the shoulders of people who have not been the cause of all this limitation, but the shining light despite these limitations?
5) Say what you want about Terror[fOu], I think he has been beneficial for the overall scene. Perhaps he will use his popularity he gained through streaming on Afreeca to help the growth of the current Brood War scene. But it is not up for us to decide, or demand.

People all say they want more for Brood War. As one of the few who actually did stuff instead of being a complaining, useless dead weight that did nothing to actually support the scene and the players financially (myself included), thank you for your input. The mere fact that you donated any amount makes your opinions and passion for the scene a million times more valuable than mine.

On January 06 2017 10:37 Letmelose wrote:


If a constructive disccusion took place, and most of the comments were about how we can help the scene further, and how we should find ways make this all better, I would have been much more greatful in my tone of voice.

Instead, I got triggered when people just started to point out all the flaws in the scene, and seemed to demand certain things from the donators, or the streamers themselves as if they were entitled to such opinions without providing any solutions themselves. Considering how all this active discussion is taking place because of the donations that kept the careers of these streamers alive after people left it for dead, I thought it was incredibly arrogant of people to suggest Flash shouldn't receive the donations he gets, or how the current scene was unsustainable. I expressed my frustrations not just on the current state of the scene, but the way in which some people who did nothing to help it in times of need started to voice their discontent on how the way things are currently. Deal with it.

On January 06 2017 18:20 thezanursic wrote:



While I agree with most of what you've said, tone down the condescension, you most certainly aren't winning any friends or arguments either.

You also seem to forget most of us on TL live on the other side of the planet, it is out of our hands. Do you think people like say, Day[9] or maybe Artosis who played in the US scene for 10 years somehow cared less about the Game than somebody who did the same in Korea?

Do you think somebody following BW on TL cares less than Koreans? Do you think somebody who went through the trouble of doing write-ups on TL cares less than somebody who supported the scene differently in Korea?

The fact is that this is entirely out of our hands, and we can't do much, but speculate and hope for the best. Koreans will ultimately decide what happens to the scene, but there is no need to be a condescending prick about it.


There always were and always will be people with either dumb or uninformed opinions on the internet in any online community, what you do is tell them why they are wrong while refraining from personal attacks or being condescending. You most certainly aren't making yourself any favors if you want to win an argument while calling them ungrateful, name-calling or making general blanket statements about them.

Tone it down.