EPTtell 'em! they aint got no rights to critique the flow of ESPORTS dollars! Where is their arrogance coming from?!
Viewership and regrowth of Broodwar - Page 2
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Puosu
6985 Posts
tell 'em! they aint got no rights to critique the flow of ESPORTS dollars! Where is their arrogance coming from?! | ||
Harem
United States11390 Posts
On January 05 2017 23:29 shadymmj wrote: as a flash fan, i think theres a problem with him earning 25k a month from streaming and other b-c level players getting one-tenth of that. there needs to be a bit of organisation so that the 20~ streamers around now can all make a decent living for sustainability's sake. no point having TBLS making big money and the rest of them just quitting. This isn't permanent or sustainable either. TBLS is going to military sooner or later. (really soon in Bisu's case) | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On January 06 2017 00:33 Harem wrote: This isn't permanent or sustainable either. TBLS is going to military sooner or later. (really soon in Bisu's case) Everybody who left it for dead or just watched idly watched from the side lines shouldn't really complain about the all the problems of this non-sustainable scene in my opinion. We all know this isn't permanent. We all know this isn't sustainable. We all know how fragile, and different it is from the days when it was the centre of the most advanced e-Sports industry. We know. Does anyone realize know how insulting it is to the fans that cared for this scene enough for us to have this discussion? How ungrateful. How ironic after all these years of negligence towards the welfare of these players people supposedly care so much about. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On January 06 2017 01:49 Letmelose wrote: Everybody who left it for dead or just watched idly watched from the side lines shouldn't really complain about the all the problems of this non-sustainable scene in my opinion. We all know this isn't permanent. We all know this isn't sustainable. We all know how fragile, and different it is from the days when it was the centre of the most advanced e-Sports industry. We know. Does anyone realize know how insulting it is to the fans that cared for this scene enough for us to have this discussion? How ungrateful. How ironic after all these years of negligence towards the welfare of these players people supposedly care so much about. You have realised the perfect post, a self-ironic masterpiece | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
But it may not, BW is an old game and I'm just happy to see the streamers happy and making money, definitely better then nothing. And now we have TBLS streaming? Amazin <3 | ||
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On January 06 2017 02:06 neptunusfisk wrote: You have realised the perfect post, a self-ironic masterpiece Notice how I don't ask for more donations, a different model of income for the streamers, or fairer distribution of donations as if I'm entitled to such demands. Especially considering the fact that my contributions to the welfare of these streamers are non-existent. Who the hell am I to complain about the financial balance of the scene as someone who might as well not as have existed when the professional scene was being killed off, and had zero presence in the streaming revenue of these players? Why is everybody here talking about the financial difficulties of the scene as if they directly were part of what kept the scene alive? It's really condescending towards the people who actually helped the scene, and I'm not sorry about being blunt about pointing that out. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
On January 05 2017 22:18 Hildegard wrote: I think the big question is whether BW attracts new players and if new players can challenge the old ones over time. I feel that's a very important point that is almost never discussed. Yes having TBLS playing is cool but the scene can't revolve around them forever. To keep the scene alive you need new blood not just people 25-30+ years old. At some point we need new faces who can challenge TBLS. Will it happen ? I doubt it. Teenagers play league of legends or overwatch not a game which was released before they were even born... Maybe if OGN starts broadcasting it again it could spark some interest but it most likely won't happen because it's just easier and less risky to broadcast lol/overwatch/hearthstone | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
Bw viewership overall has increased tremendously. I'd say at peak(Asl or terror tourney) it reaches up to 150k. Lot of other famous streamers are now streaming bw because it has gotten so popular | ||
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
I've stopped using PC bangs as a measure because of the changes in how they work, how games are logged, and the people that go there. Full grown adults are becoming less common and PC bangs are turning into an after-school event for kids. That's not to say BW isn't popular with the young ones (we have preteens in our clan), but rather what the young ones tend to play. Lots of League, lots of Overwatch, and some other games that have discounts and perks when played in PC bangs. In fact, Fish is well known for conflicting with PC bang internet connections. A good chunk of PC bangs can't handle UPnP on so many systems at once, it's a better experience to just play from home. | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
How about organizing 3 mini online tournaments to lead up to ASL? The reality show could consists of players acting like mentors, taking up non former Kespa pros and battle. That could be the new ProLeague to foster new talents. I think it is definitely sustainable to have 5 tournaments per year. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19231 Posts
On January 06 2017 02:34 Letmelose wrote: Notice how I don't ask for more donations, a different model of income for the streamers, or fairer distribution of donations as if I'm entitled to such demands. Especially considering the fact that my contributions to the welfare of these streamers are non-existent. Who the hell am I to complain about the financial balance of the scene as someone who might as well not as have existed when the professional scene was being killed off, and had zero presence in the streaming revenue of these players? Why is everybody here talking about the financial difficulties of the scene as if they directly were part of what kept the scene alive? It's really condescending towards the people who actually helped the scene, and I'm not sorry about being blunt about pointing that out. I guess I can speak since I've put more money into the scene then I've earned from it, countless free hours of news content and streaming, donated money to Korean players and casters within the past year, seeked Korean sponsors (and still do despite not knowing any Korean) and has remained active even after the SC2 move: 1. I 100% agree we cannot dictate where people put their money. I am a supporter of people spending money how they want. 2. What we can do is certainly encourage fans to pool their money to create something more then just sponsored matches. There is value to be gained if we were able to show the top earners how valuable it is to invest in other players. 3. Important figures such as KCM uses his own savings to sponsor matches such as KCM and gets nothing in return. While that's donator's choice, it's unsustainable for him and then we lose someone who is very important to the scene as he adds age, wisdom, and the tenacity to pursue sponsors. 4. Failure to support Kim Carrier and in fact certain people have said nasty things to him has pushed him away from the scene too. We can certainly work towards creating a friendlier environment towards people who have put in the effort outside of playing the game. 5. Clan creations such as Moo and Neox are actually great steps forward into creating team/family environments where players practice and depend on each other and get competitive with other clans | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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McRatyn
Poland901 Posts
Good luck to all streamers in all their endevors, I'm genuinely jaelous of the money they make. | ||
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On January 05 2017 14:04 alprostadil wrote: Honestly this is a similar problem to what has always affected bw, but its less severe. It used to be that lower tier pros only got the benefit of practice and free room, they didnt even get paid. Even the lower tier pros who actually got proleague time were getting hardly any money at all. Now lower and mid tier pros can supplement tourny income with streaming, and they can meaningfully get more views if they are entertaining. If pro teams are ever to come back, they would continue to be pretty marginal income wise for most of the pros, as they always were. BW has definitely been regrowing in popularity thanks to ASL and return on TBLS. I am however concerned that the current economic model of BW where bulk of the revenue for pros come from streaming/donation is unsustainable. Take a look at the number of viewers for each stream on side of TL website and its obvious that handful of top streamers get thousands of viewers while the majority of streamers struggle to attract even a hundred viewers. I recently watched a group talk show featuring Britney, Horang2, Last, Guemchi, Rain, and couple of others. Part of their discussion was return of TBLS to BW scene and how that made it much more difficult it is for the other streamers to attract viewers. While those streamers and myself agree that TBLS deserve their success thanks to their BW accomplishments and skills, you can't have a sustainable BW scene with just a handful number of full time players. My guess is that one needs around $1500~$2000 monthly in Korea to subsist, but many streamers won't earn that amount forcing them to leave the scene  | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
On January 06 2017 02:06 neptunusfisk wrote: You have realised the perfect post, a self-ironic masterpiece  Don't know anything about Overwatch or Sudden Attack, but I wonder if LCK (League of Legends Korean pro series) starting again later this month will have an impact on BW numbers, for better or worse. | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On January 06 2017 06:46 Dazed_Spy wrote: Honestly this is a similar problem to what has always affected bw, but its less severe. It used to be that lower tier pros only got the benefit of practice and free room, they didnt even get paid. Even the lower tier pros who actually got proleague time were getting hardly any money at all. Now lower and mid tier pros can supplement tourny income with streaming, and they can meaningfully get more views if they are entertaining. If pro teams are ever to come back, they would continue to be pretty marginal income wise for most of the pros, as they always were. I don't know about that. On the plus side, it's probably a bit more open because people aren't needing to prepare against players who have an entire full time coaching staff behind them. But at the same time, there is probably a sacrifice to the level of play when you do have players streaming, entertaining, I would think streaming, being a popularity contest, would be way more top-sided than anything. If thats the case, how many pros could donations actually sustain over the course of an entire year? | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On January 05 2017 23:29 shadymmj wrote: as a flash fan, i think theres a problem with him earning 25k a month from streaming and other b-c level players getting one-tenth of that. there needs to be a bit of organisation so that the 20~ streamers around now can all make a decent living for sustainability's sake. no point having TBLS making big money and the rest of them just quitting. This is called communism. Do you have a job? Imagine you have to work N hours, but you like to do N+1 hours because you like to work. Imagine what you do, e.g. making pizzas, is better than what your colleague is doing. So, your pizza is tastier than the other guy's. Do you still have to be paid the same salary? If you say yes, then you are lying. Do you want to earn more than Flash? Play more than him, win more than him. You should earn more than him in this case. It's called competition. This is what sports is about. | ||
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