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I wonder if Rek would take more bets this time
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On August 22 2010 11:55 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 11:49 Letmelose wrote:On August 22 2010 11:01 okum wrote:On August 22 2010 10:54 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 09:28 SimonB wrote:I am too. It was nearly over, but it wasn't over, and it compromised game 4 as well. The impossibility of a comeback was seriously exaggerated afterward. I think that MSL is forever tainted, and I don't take it very seriously. On August 22 2010 08:47 WWJDD wrote:On August 22 2010 05:46 SimonB wrote:The ling rushes are very difficult to deal with. I think Flash should play as if it were a PvZ and basically always have a scout near JD's base for this type of thing. If need be, send several SCVs out. If he can avoid Light's game 1 and 5 fate, he pretty much should own. On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. Flash wasn't better, he was just more prepared? What? How do you figure that, especially considering JD had a few more days to prepare because Flash was working overtime before the OSL finals. Preparing against Movie?? The scourge of all terrans?? Please!! I wasn't talking about Nate there, I was talking about Hana Daetoo. Also, Movie came prepared for that finals with some pretty abusive builds, so it's dumb to dismiss it anyway. What abusive builds? The only thing he prepared well for was that carrier transition on eye of the storm. Other than that he went reaver on a map that almost every protoss ever went reaver on, 12 nex on a massive map, and then HBR, which he really didn't have a plan for past the early game. The combined goon/zealot elevator + reaver drop + DT drop on El Nino (which Flash *barely* held off) was pretty damn abusive. I believe Movie had prepared for a fast dark templar drop, but messed up his build orders half way throught the game, and had to re-adjust his build to make up for the delayed timing. The combination of reavers and dark templars did threaten Flash, but Movie had invested so much on the drop that Flash had to be crippled severely for the move to have paid off. Hardly a shining example of how well prepared Movie was for the series to be honest. What Flash has achieved this season is so out of this world, I don't see the point of obsessing over the minimal likelihood that Flash would have overcame the deficit he had against Jaedong in that infamous game on Odd-Eye, and overcome what was a clear build order loss on Fighting Spirit afterwards. Or trying to prove that somehow that what Flash faced against Movie was some of the most mind tilting protoss plays around. Flash has surpasses Jaedong in terms of straight up play for quite some time now. Jaedong had to rely on his wits, to overcome Flash on what many zergs progamers said to be an impossible map pool for a zerg player. The ruling in the third game just sealed the lid on what was in many people's eyes, a done deal. Flash returned the favour to stomp Jaedong to the ground last time. This time round, the map pool is still favourable for the terran race, and Jaedong was forced to reveal a lot of his non-straight up plays against Sea and Light, since he didn't have the capacity to roll them over on sheer power alone. This is Flash's series to lose. To be honest, I'd like to see Flash play Jaedong on some zerg favoured map pool, something that never happened in any of their BO5s. It's no fun watching Jaedong trying to out-guess Flash in these map pools. When was the last time they even played a proper standard game? It was the winner's league game on match point. As I recall, that game was pretty evenly balanced until Jaedong's big fuckup with forgetting consume. While it might be true that Flash has a higher chance of winning in a standard macro game, I haven't seen any strong evidence to support this claim. We can only judge based on their general performance against other players.
I was speaking in relative terms. For the longest time, I was certain that Jaedong was simply the stronger player regardless of their results. Flash himself said that he had a mindblock against Jaedong after being manhandled (in terms of pure gameplay) in the round of eight of GomTV MSL S4. This is no longer the case. Flash no longer plays afraid against Jaedong. He knows he's the stronger of the two currently. Of course, being stronger does not always lead to victory, but it's just something I have noticed in their games recently. I have a feeling that the map pool exacerbates the situation even further.
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On August 22 2010 12:19 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 11:20 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 10:48 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 09:58 alypse wrote:On August 22 2010 09:23 moopie wrote:On August 22 2010 08:38 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 07:59 Creationism wrote:On August 22 2010 07:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 07:10 JohannesH wrote:On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:
[quote]
I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that. Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No. Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation. Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match. Why not? Are you one of the clueless people that think game 3 wasn't completely over?? I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Same here. As they say, it's not over till it is over. 'nuff said. I'm sure u know more than 3 KESPA refs who do this for a living. Makes sense. Here's a decent analysis so I won't have to waste my time http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110681- Jaedong was on four gas and had a fifth gas building
- Flash was fast approaching depletion in both his nat and main geysers, and the expansion he had just taken had no geyser
- Flash was about to mine out his natural. Jaedong had more mineral patches than his drones could handle
- All of Jaedong's expansions were secure
- Flash had ZERO tanks. He did not even have a machine shop. No Flash vs Calm Game 3 this time around. Also to moopie, I like Flash a lot, I'm just not in denial. Don't know why any1 who thinks jaedong had the game won is automatically an anti fan. whilst I will sate that I don't like Flash a lot, I still trust my SC analytical skills enough to see beyond that and say that I agree with motbob and subtleArt, it was over, not because I don't like Flash but because it WAS over IdrA and Ret both said the game was won for Jaedong not trying to doubt Flash's BW knowledge but then again, Flash is absolutely unbiased toward himself am I right :p never thought I'd still be arguing this point 6 months later Exactly, almost all top players agree that it was over, as well as 3 refs who have made the game their living, but no, random teamliquid poster knows better, and any1 who doesn't agree must hate flash. Show nested quote +I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Yes, Flash...Lee Young Ho....the very person who was playing said game. Absolutely no bias there whatsoever
Rofl, so lets compare that game to the Set1 he played against Fantasy. If the power outage happened at the point where Fantasy had 5-6 bases with Flash @ 3 and has just lost 27 scv + got his main army eaten by Fantasy, you don't think the "people who make their living officiating" would have called it in favor of Fantasy?
We can't say the decision was fair/unfair, all we can say is that it SUCKED. It was unfair towards both players had the game been called either way and completely the MSL's fault for not making thing good. That entire series is marred and I think therefore bad evidence towards any argument.
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Game 3 was over but the real problem was that the Power Outage essentially killed game 4. You can blame Flash for not being mentally strong enough (though I think this is BS because that was just such an absurd situation that it bordered on the surreal) but of course it would have been better to see Flash lose game 3 naturally and then try to fight back.
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On August 22 2010 12:49 Creationism wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 12:19 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 11:20 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 10:48 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 09:58 alypse wrote:On August 22 2010 09:23 moopie wrote:On August 22 2010 08:38 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 07:59 Creationism wrote:On August 22 2010 07:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 07:10 JohannesH wrote:
[quote]
If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that. Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No. Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation. Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match. Why not? Are you one of the clueless people that think game 3 wasn't completely over?? I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Same here. As they say, it's not over till it is over. 'nuff said. I'm sure u know more than 3 KESPA refs who do this for a living. Makes sense. Here's a decent analysis so I won't have to waste my time http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110681- Jaedong was on four gas and had a fifth gas building
- Flash was fast approaching depletion in both his nat and main geysers, and the expansion he had just taken had no geyser
- Flash was about to mine out his natural. Jaedong had more mineral patches than his drones could handle
- All of Jaedong's expansions were secure
- Flash had ZERO tanks. He did not even have a machine shop. No Flash vs Calm Game 3 this time around. Also to moopie, I like Flash a lot, I'm just not in denial. Don't know why any1 who thinks jaedong had the game won is automatically an anti fan. whilst I will sate that I don't like Flash a lot, I still trust my SC analytical skills enough to see beyond that and say that I agree with motbob and subtleArt, it was over, not because I don't like Flash but because it WAS over IdrA and Ret both said the game was won for Jaedong not trying to doubt Flash's BW knowledge but then again, Flash is absolutely unbiased toward himself am I right :p never thought I'd still be arguing this point 6 months later Exactly, almost all top players agree that it was over, as well as 3 refs who have made the game their living, but no, random teamliquid poster knows better, and any1 who doesn't agree must hate flash. I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Yes, Flash...Lee Young Ho....the very person who was playing said game. Absolutely no bias there whatsoever Rofl, so lets compare that game to the Set1 he played against Fantasy. If the power outage happened at the point where Fantasy had 5-6 bases with Flash @ 3 and has just lost 27 scv + got his main army eaten by Fantasy, you don't think the "people who make their living officiating" would have called it in favor of Fantasy? We can't say the decision was fair/unfair, all we can say is that it SUCKED. It was unfair towards both players had the game been called either way and completely the MSL's fault for not making thing good. That entire series is marred and I think therefore bad evidence towards any argument.
Plus his comeback against Leta the day afterward, plus Fantasy's comeback against Zero on Fighting Spirit a couple days before it when he destroyed a four-base (five?) zerg with basically one dropship, 12 marines, and 5 medics.
Unbelievable comebacks can and do happen. Maybe it would've taken an unbelievable dumb mistake from JD for it to happen, but that is still a possibility. Flash said he was about half done with a command center in addition to already having taken his mineral only. Plus, Jaedong had a ton of bases, but not that much drone saturation, and few units on the map.
Jaedong would probably have won, but it was still bullshit and forever tainted that final.
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On August 22 2010 12:49 Creationism wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 12:19 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 11:20 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 10:48 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 09:58 alypse wrote:On August 22 2010 09:23 moopie wrote:On August 22 2010 08:38 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 07:59 Creationism wrote:On August 22 2010 07:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 07:10 JohannesH wrote:
[quote]
If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that. Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No. Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation. Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match. Why not? Are you one of the clueless people that think game 3 wasn't completely over?? I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Same here. As they say, it's not over till it is over. 'nuff said. I'm sure u know more than 3 KESPA refs who do this for a living. Makes sense. Here's a decent analysis so I won't have to waste my time http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110681- Jaedong was on four gas and had a fifth gas building
- Flash was fast approaching depletion in both his nat and main geysers, and the expansion he had just taken had no geyser
- Flash was about to mine out his natural. Jaedong had more mineral patches than his drones could handle
- All of Jaedong's expansions were secure
- Flash had ZERO tanks. He did not even have a machine shop. No Flash vs Calm Game 3 this time around. Also to moopie, I like Flash a lot, I'm just not in denial. Don't know why any1 who thinks jaedong had the game won is automatically an anti fan. whilst I will sate that I don't like Flash a lot, I still trust my SC analytical skills enough to see beyond that and say that I agree with motbob and subtleArt, it was over, not because I don't like Flash but because it WAS over IdrA and Ret both said the game was won for Jaedong not trying to doubt Flash's BW knowledge but then again, Flash is absolutely unbiased toward himself am I right :p never thought I'd still be arguing this point 6 months later Exactly, almost all top players agree that it was over, as well as 3 refs who have made the game their living, but no, random teamliquid poster knows better, and any1 who doesn't agree must hate flash. I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Yes, Flash...Lee Young Ho....the very person who was playing said game. Absolutely no bias there whatsoever Rofl, so lets compare that game to the Set1 he played against Fantasy. If the power outage happened at the point where Fantasy had 5-6 bases with Flash @ 3 and has just lost 27 scv + got his main army eaten by Fantasy, you don't think the "people who make their living officiating" would have called it in favor of Fantasy? We can't say the decision was fair/unfair, all we can say is that it SUCKED. It was unfair towards both players had the game been called either way and completely the MSL's fault for not making thing good. That entire series is marred and I think therefore bad evidence towards any argument.
you've got to be kidding me... TvT and TvZ are 2 entirely different match-ups.
The "state" of the game in those 2 scenarios were completely different. In that situation, it would've still taken a crapload of time for Fantasy to ride that advantage into a victory. In the power outage game, Jaedong was literally a minute or 2 from winning.
There is a reason why the only people who think Flash would've won have Rolster tags, while everyone affiliated with any non-oz/kt team + progamers + kespa refs think differently.
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konadora
Singapore66071 Posts
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On August 22 2010 13:06 shurgen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 12:49 Creationism wrote:On August 22 2010 12:19 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 11:20 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 10:48 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 09:58 alypse wrote:On August 22 2010 09:23 moopie wrote:On August 22 2010 08:38 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 07:59 Creationism wrote:On August 22 2010 07:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:
[quote]
Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No. Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation. Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match. Why not? Are you one of the clueless people that think game 3 wasn't completely over?? I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Same here. As they say, it's not over till it is over. 'nuff said. I'm sure u know more than 3 KESPA refs who do this for a living. Makes sense. Here's a decent analysis so I won't have to waste my time http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110681- Jaedong was on four gas and had a fifth gas building
- Flash was fast approaching depletion in both his nat and main geysers, and the expansion he had just taken had no geyser
- Flash was about to mine out his natural. Jaedong had more mineral patches than his drones could handle
- All of Jaedong's expansions were secure
- Flash had ZERO tanks. He did not even have a machine shop. No Flash vs Calm Game 3 this time around. Also to moopie, I like Flash a lot, I'm just not in denial. Don't know why any1 who thinks jaedong had the game won is automatically an anti fan. whilst I will sate that I don't like Flash a lot, I still trust my SC analytical skills enough to see beyond that and say that I agree with motbob and subtleArt, it was over, not because I don't like Flash but because it WAS over IdrA and Ret both said the game was won for Jaedong not trying to doubt Flash's BW knowledge but then again, Flash is absolutely unbiased toward himself am I right :p never thought I'd still be arguing this point 6 months later Exactly, almost all top players agree that it was over, as well as 3 refs who have made the game their living, but no, random teamliquid poster knows better, and any1 who doesn't agree must hate flash. I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Yes, Flash...Lee Young Ho....the very person who was playing said game. Absolutely no bias there whatsoever Rofl, so lets compare that game to the Set1 he played against Fantasy. If the power outage happened at the point where Fantasy had 5-6 bases with Flash @ 3 and has just lost 27 scv + got his main army eaten by Fantasy, you don't think the "people who make their living officiating" would have called it in favor of Fantasy? We can't say the decision was fair/unfair, all we can say is that it SUCKED. It was unfair towards both players had the game been called either way and completely the MSL's fault for not making thing good. That entire series is marred and I think therefore bad evidence towards any argument. you've got to be kidding me... TvT and TvZ are 2 entirely different match-ups. The "state" of the game in those 2 scenarios were completely different. In that situation, it would've still taken a crapload of time for Fantasy to ride that advantage into a victory. In the power outage game, Jaedong was literally a minute or 2 from winning. There is a reason why the only people who think Flash would've won have Rolster tags, while everyone affiliated with any non-oz/kt team + progamers + kespa refs think differently.
uh... check my tag, haven't changed it in a couple years now...
And how is the scenarios completely different? Did you WATCH set1 of fantasy vs flash. The game was almost literally over. Fantasy couldve almost A-moved into Flash's base n won. TvT is a matchup where sudden victories happen all the time due to the fire-power of tanks and the mobility of DS. If anything, TvT would end quicker than zvt because JD would have to swarm push his way across the map.
And the argument isn't "Flash WOULD've won", it's he COULD have, just like JD COULD have lost. Now we'll never know.
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On August 22 2010 01:41 domane wrote:Show nested quote +Also, I feel that if Flash wins this MSL once again, he will completely dominate everything. Strong statement from Jaedong. Jaedong = the hero that stands against Flash "tyranny" (lol) or control over the pro scene? I still think neither player is an underdog against the other.
Jaedong is like Neo, and Flash is Mr. Smith. Two unstoppable forces in an eternal struggle...
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I can't believe the MSL people opted for Polaris Rhapsody twice instead of Fighting Spirit. Fighting Spirit is a far more balanced map.
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On August 22 2010 17:11 Creationism wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 13:06 shurgen wrote:On August 22 2010 12:49 Creationism wrote:On August 22 2010 12:19 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 11:20 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 10:48 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 09:58 alypse wrote:On August 22 2010 09:23 moopie wrote:On August 22 2010 08:38 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 07:59 Creationism wrote:
[quote]
Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation.
Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match. Why not? Are you one of the clueless people that think game 3 wasn't completely over?? I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Same here. As they say, it's not over till it is over. 'nuff said. I'm sure u know more than 3 KESPA refs who do this for a living. Makes sense. Here's a decent analysis so I won't have to waste my time http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110681- Jaedong was on four gas and had a fifth gas building
- Flash was fast approaching depletion in both his nat and main geysers, and the expansion he had just taken had no geyser
- Flash was about to mine out his natural. Jaedong had more mineral patches than his drones could handle
- All of Jaedong's expansions were secure
- Flash had ZERO tanks. He did not even have a machine shop. No Flash vs Calm Game 3 this time around. Also to moopie, I like Flash a lot, I'm just not in denial. Don't know why any1 who thinks jaedong had the game won is automatically an anti fan. whilst I will sate that I don't like Flash a lot, I still trust my SC analytical skills enough to see beyond that and say that I agree with motbob and subtleArt, it was over, not because I don't like Flash but because it WAS over IdrA and Ret both said the game was won for Jaedong not trying to doubt Flash's BW knowledge but then again, Flash is absolutely unbiased toward himself am I right :p never thought I'd still be arguing this point 6 months later Exactly, almost all top players agree that it was over, as well as 3 refs who have made the game their living, but no, random teamliquid poster knows better, and any1 who doesn't agree must hate flash. I am. And so is Flash, and I'd trust his bw knowledge over any person on TL (including rabid antifans like yourself), he's come back from much worse. Yes, Flash...Lee Young Ho....the very person who was playing said game. Absolutely no bias there whatsoever Rofl, so lets compare that game to the Set1 he played against Fantasy. If the power outage happened at the point where Fantasy had 5-6 bases with Flash @ 3 and has just lost 27 scv + got his main army eaten by Fantasy, you don't think the "people who make their living officiating" would have called it in favor of Fantasy? We can't say the decision was fair/unfair, all we can say is that it SUCKED. It was unfair towards both players had the game been called either way and completely the MSL's fault for not making thing good. That entire series is marred and I think therefore bad evidence towards any argument. you've got to be kidding me... TvT and TvZ are 2 entirely different match-ups. The "state" of the game in those 2 scenarios were completely different. In that situation, it would've still taken a crapload of time for Fantasy to ride that advantage into a victory. In the power outage game, Jaedong was literally a minute or 2 from winning. There is a reason why the only people who think Flash would've won have Rolster tags, while everyone affiliated with any non-oz/kt team + progamers + kespa refs think differently. uh... check my tag, haven't changed it in a couple years now... And how is the scenarios completely different? Did you WATCH set1 of fantasy vs flash. The game was almost literally over. Fantasy couldve almost A-moved into Flash's base n won. TvT is a matchup where sudden victories happen all the time due to the fire-power of tanks and the mobility of DS. If anything, TvT would end quicker than zvt because JD would have to swarm push his way across the map. And the argument isn't "Flash WOULD've won", it's he COULD have, just like JD COULD have lost. Now we'll never know.
No, flash still had a chance to win vs Fantasy and the game almost surely would have been re done. He still had a good army count and the chances of securing more bases, which is really what counts.
Flash vs Jaedong:
Flash had no tanks (and the factory was floating, so none were coming), only 3 vessels, and the only base he was going to be mining from when the 3 patches in his natural died out was a half depleted mineral only. Jaedong on the other hand had 4 gas bases, only 1 of which was mined out, all were secured, and one was a double gas which puts him on 5 gas, probably 3 geysers still left, vs a terran with a mineral only and only a handful of marines. Massive advantage jaedong.
And the argument isn't "Flash WOULD've won", it's he COULD have, just like JD COULD have lost.
You're just being difficult. It was a crappy situation no matter what the choice, but in the end Jaedong's chance of winning exceeded Flash's to the point where re doing would have completely robbed Jaedong.
Ah well, I guess you're really pro cause you're obviously more qualified to make decisions than kespa refs, so who am I to talk to you.
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Am I the only one who chuckles every time I read the practice partners for these interviews? I wonder what they get out of those matches.
And stop beating the damn dead horse. It's time to move on from the power outage and stop acting like little children.
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you dumbasses, jaedong isnt practicing with people like  Bee and Sexy. He's actually sending a message: JAEDONG BE SEXYYYYYYY
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I can only hope the finals gives us the kind of quality the semifinals on both sides showed... and thank god its not another TvT :O
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Also don't forget,  Jaedong gets strategic tips and build order advice from the brain zerg himself......NeeL.
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On August 23 2010 03:13 DarkMatter_ wrote:Also don't forget, Jaedong gets strategic tips and build order advice from the brain zerg himself...... NeeL.
too bad ggaemo left ;(
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On August 22 2010 12:56 darktreb wrote:
Game 3 was over but the real problem was that the Power Outage essentially killed game 4. You can blame Flash for not being mentally strong enough (though I think this is BS because that was just such an absurd situation that it bordered on the surreal) but of course it would have been better to see Flash lose game 3 naturally and then try to fight back.
I'm not going to search for the interview, but you can if you want. I just wanted you to know that this is incorrect. Flash said in his interview that he lost game 4 fair and square. He wasn't upset about that at all. He was upset about game 3, because he believed he could have won that game (and therefore the series wouldn't have ended on game 4).
Game 3 appeared to be very close if you were paying attention to the struggle over the northern approach/attack path to the southwest double gas expansion. But Flash's situation was much more dire when you consider the economic situation map-wide. As one person put it, "Flash was all-in off two bases for a very long time". That means he was almost out of money, which we could see on the map. Despite the fact that he was pleased with himself for building another CC, having money tied up in a partially completed command center wasn't going to protect him from the counter-attack that would have come as soon as his attack sputtered out.
edit: I wanted to add that even though I'm a JD fan, I watch most all of Flash's games, because he's really really good. I respect them both a lot. JD and Flash would be nothing exciting if they didn't have each other as rivals. Luckily for us, they do. Woohoo!
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On August 22 2010 01:32 infinity2k9 wrote:
How is Jaedong so good when he practices with Bee and Sexy.
I'm quite possitive they do team melee
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On August 24 2010 08:45 slappy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:32 infinity2k9 wrote:
How is Jaedong so good when he practices with Bee and Sexy. I'm quite possitive they do team melee
Worked well enough for ACE against JD so why not.
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Ah man good too see JD win this. was worried after set 3.
I think he has the motivation to do whatever it takes to win this season both msl & osl. Can only hope for an epic finals!
Also wish ppl would stop arguing about that power outage game. Seriously. Get over it.
Their most recent match was on all stars. I know it was for fun but if ur gonna analyse anything look at that.
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EPT
