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Keep in mind that Effort was able to beat Flash using early game ling strategies as well. (vs 14cc)
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Here i hope Jaedong uses something a little bit more innovative , like the queens against light to kill CC's faster . He should also abuse the fuck out of defilers like Action did against Flash and not build ultras unless for perfectly precise drops on tanks .
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On August 22 2010 05:12 Gescom wrote:
Keep in mind that Effort was able to beat Flash using early game ling strategies as well. (vs 14cc)
Yeah, but Flash showed he learned from that just one week later against JD where he scouted before putting down the 14cc. I can't see Flash succumbing to early ling attacks like that again. Aggressive 2 hatch muta play possibly but that's pretty risky against Flash.
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The ling rushes are very difficult to deal with. I think Flash should play as if it were a PvZ and basically always have a scout near JD's base for this type of thing. If need be, send several SCVs out. If he can avoid Light's game 1 and 5 fate, he pretty much should own.
On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much.
Flash wasn't better, he was just more prepared? What?
How do you figure that, especially considering JD had a few more days to prepare because Flash was working overtime before the OSL finals.
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On August 22 2010 05:46 SimonB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. Flash wasn't better, he was just more prepared? What? How do you figure that, especially considering JD had a few more days to prepare because Flash was working overtime before the OSL finals.
I wasn't talking about who spent more time preparing. I was basing that on the games themselves. Flash read Jaedong's playstyle perfectly and exploited the fuck out of it. He knew JD was going for a strong late game ZvT so he just played really greedy at the beginning and then went for a timing attack before JD's lategame army came into play.
For example, what did game 1 prove really? Just that Flash had a better game plan, that's all. Jaedong had no units and was completely caught off guard.
That series wasn't a test of skill, all it proved was that one player had much better strategies.
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On August 22 2010 05:46 SimonB wrote:The ling rushes are very difficult to deal with. I think Flash should play as if it were a PvZ and basically always have a scout near JD's base for this type of thing. If need be, send several SCVs out. If he can avoid Light's game 1 and 5 fate, he pretty much should own. Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. Flash wasn't better, he was just more prepared? What? How do you figure that, especially considering JD had a few more days to prepare because Flash was working overtime before the OSL finals.
Well Flash predicted that Jaedong won't go for a 9 pool so he just double cc'ed all matches
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Really appreciate all of your work Konadora, thank you!
I'm so pumped for the finals!
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On August 22 2010 05:57 KimchiFriedRice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 05:46 SimonB wrote:The ling rushes are very difficult to deal with. I think Flash should play as if it were a PvZ and basically always have a scout near JD's base for this type of thing. If need be, send several SCVs out. If he can avoid Light's game 1 and 5 fate, he pretty much should own. On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. Flash wasn't better, he was just more prepared? What? How do you figure that, especially considering JD had a few more days to prepare because Flash was working overtime before the OSL finals. Well Flash predicted that Jaedong won't go for a 9 pool so he just double cc'ed all matches
Ummm... predicted?
Only game 1 was a blind 14cc (on Triathlon, which is relatively safe).
Game 2 and 3 were 14cc after scout. If JD hadn't opened with a 12 hatch, Flash wouldn't have responded with 14ccs.
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On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much.
If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that.
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On August 22 2010 07:10 JohannesH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that.
Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No.
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On August 22 2010 02:23 Holgerius wrote:I just hope that Flash does not underestimate JD, because JD sure as hell isn't going to underestimate Flash. A loss in WCG would be great. 
I don't think anyone ever underestimates Jaedong
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On August 22 2010 01:28 SubtleArt wrote:Its ridiculous how far ahead of everyone Jaedong and Flash are. Also, Jaedong seems to have really improved in TvZ. Taking down light and Sea in Bo5s is quite an achievement with such a horrible map pool Edit: Btw I think the title should read semifinals B winner 
Not really, I mean, they both won by 3-2 so its pretty close
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On August 22 2010 07:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 07:10 JohannesH wrote:On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that. Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No.
Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation.
Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match.
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On August 22 2010 01:32 infinity2k9 wrote:
How is Jaedong so good when he practices with Bee and Sexy.
He plays 2 on 1 automatic 14cc build every game.
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On August 22 2010 07:59 Creationism wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 07:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 07:10 JohannesH wrote:On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that. Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No. Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation. Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match.
Why not? Are you one of the clueless people that think game 3 wasn't completely over??
Also, Flash vs Stork is what happens when a player gets a reputation for 12 nexus
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Canada2480 Posts
On August 22 2010 08:38 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 07:59 Creationism wrote:On August 22 2010 07:32 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 07:10 JohannesH wrote:On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. If an opponent can read you perfectly, how on earth is that not a great indicator of skill? If someone is mechanically superior to you, you at least know how to try and overcome that. But if you get repeatedly mindfucked by someone, it can be harder to figure out the answer to that. Jaedong was predictable that day. Flash was predictable in the NATE MSL. Does it prove that the winner was the better player that day? Yes. Does it prove that he's a better player overall? No. Dont even talk about Power Outage MSL... And your argument makes no sense. Progamers have constantly said the distance between each of them is paper thin, and when you have two of the best clash, you expect it to go 50/50. Saying it doesn't prove anything except "preparation" is completely ignoring the fact that it is all based on preparation. Half of the "skills" you talk about is preparation. Flash's breakout OSL 3-0 vs Stork was a perfect example of preparation, and it showed just how much skills Flash had. A Bo5 is a lot different than your regular Proleague or group stages match. Why not? Are you one of the clueless people that think game 3 wasn't completely over??Also, Flash vs Stork is what happens when a player gets a reputation for 12 nexus
HAHAHAHA
Flash blind fanboys are so annoying about that power outage...was so clearly over at that point *sigh*
On August 22 2010 05:20 raga4ka wrote:
Here i hope Jaedong uses something a little bit more innovative , like the queens against light to kill CC's faster . He should also abuse the fuck out of defilers like Action did against Flash and not build ultras unless for perfectly precise drops on tanks .
in my opinion queen is seriously under-used, if progamers just pumped a single queen and did not do any research its 100 mins and 100 gas and you can parasite to keep track of MnM ball movement
also, infesting a CC already made your queen more than worth the money
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On August 22 2010 05:46 SimonB wrote:The ling rushes are very difficult to deal with. I think Flash should play as if it were a PvZ and basically always have a scout near JD's base for this type of thing. If need be, send several SCVs out. If he can avoid Light's game 1 and 5 fate, he pretty much should own. Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:41 DarkMatter_ wrote:On August 22 2010 01:37 SubtleArt wrote:On August 22 2010 01:35 DarkMatter_ wrote:
This doesn't sound like the Jaedong I know. I guess today's losses shook him up a bit, since it sounds like none of the games turned out the way he expected them to (even the wins). He sounds almost intimidated by Flash. When you overhype the opponent so much, you're always putting yourself a disadvantage psychologically. Hopefully, he regains his confidence before the finals and returns to his usual self.
Also, Jaedong really needs better practice partners. He's always going to be a disadvantage if he keeps practicing with the likes of Bee and Sexy while Flash gets help/practice from the likes of Effort and ZerO. The curbstomping last finals might have something to do with it. On top of that only 2 games today went to lategame, and jaedong lost both of them. You know Flash is gonna bring an even better endgame and not be stupid enough to lose early like light did I really don't think there's any reason to feel too demoralized by the last MSL. In the end, Flash won simply because he was better prepared and read Jaedong perfectly. As far as skill goes, the last MSL really didn't prove much. Flash wasn't better, he was just more prepared? What? How do you figure that, especially considering JD had a few more days to prepare because Flash was working overtime before the OSL finals.
Preparing against Movie?? The scourge of all terrans?? Please!!
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LOL  Bee and Sexy? Those are some badass names right there.
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I feel scared for the Legend Killer because Flash just might become even bigger than a legend... he might become a god. Still, I believe in Jaedong. :D
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I believe Jaedong plays better when he's the underdog, so make sure he loses game 1, gets angry and he can rip Flash to pieces
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EPT
