Effort is still bad - Page 2

On May 29 2010 00:04 BroOd wrote:
I disagree profoundly with the assertion that gamers should be consciously trying to manufacture "quality games". As an audience, it's obviously preferable for us to watch pendulous momentum and artful climaxes, but this experience has to come organically from both players operating at a high level. If a game doesn't work on this level, I feel that the general "blame" (and I don't like calling it that) has to be placed on the loser. If flash had managed to deflect effort's play style, it would've been admittedly brilliant play, but he didn't. He succumbed to it, and as such, the onus for not providing high quality resistance and by extension high quality games falls on flash.

The notion of playing games with the expressed purpose of being "epic" is contrary to the driving spirit behind competition. People who compete at such a high level have to do so with singular mind and purpose. It has to be over-riding and all consuming.

If you're in the world series finals for baseball, with the game tied and a man on third, you're going to bunt or sacrifice-fly ball to bring him in and score a run. You're not going to swing away and try to hit a home run, even though it might be more of an "epic" way to win a game, certainly moreso that bunting. You do this because you're playing to win, and playing percentages. I think that's what effort was doing. Despite his play style in the last three games being technically considered more of a "risky" style, I think it provided him with the best chance to win, and a much higher odds of winning than by trying to win three consecutive games with a standard style while being down 0-2. He was playing to win, and he won. He did his job. The fact that the games weren't epic is simply not his fault, and it certainly shouldn't count as a mark against him.

On May 29 2010 00:10 flamewheel91 wrote:
>.> Plexa
It was a nice writeup though, even though you seem mad
It's okay you're cute.

I'm with BroOd on this one, the progamers aren't supposed to play to satisfy us. Hell, some people like watching the cheese more. Jaedong 5pooling against Calm in the semis drew a hundred "LOLWTF" statements in about 30 seconds, and sometimes it's nice to have a little change.

On May 29 2010 00:11 Plexa wrote:
At the end of the day, Flash is better than Effort and I stand by that claim.

On May 29 2010 00:15 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I'm happy to see players do non standard things because they know other ways to win. And I'm sad others don't share this view on strategic gaming. There's very little that pisses me off more than a disdainful attitude towards so called "cheese". Even using the word cheese pisses me off. It's a word created by people incapable dealing with strategic variance. And thus incapable of playing Broodwar.

On May 29 2010 00:17 jalstar wrote:
Flash moved out without medics in game 3, let his 1-base drop play get scouted in game 4, and went 14 cc on a 2-player map in game 5.

Yeah, EffOrt is bad.

Again, I give credit where it's due. Does preparing a 2hatch speedling bust into 2hatch mutalisk deserve the same amount of respect as a well thought out drop break?

On May 29 2010 00:11 Plexa wrote:
But at the same time can you acknowledge the difference between simply cheesing and doing something creative?

e.g. Boxer's x3 bunk rush. Massively anticlimatic for the fans. Absolutely outstanding from a strategic point of view. Still an epic series imo. Jaedong 5 pooling fantasy. Massively anticlimatic, but again, outstanding from a strategic point of view. What about July vs Best? Same deal.

The difference here is that efforts cheeses were uninspired and honestly, just lucky.

At the end of the day, Flash is better than Effort and I stand by that claim.

On May 29 2010 00:18 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:

Why wouldn't it deserve the same amount of respect. That stuff is all done through mindgames and reactionary play on how your opponent plays.

On May 29 2010 00:21 BroOd wrote:

Again, I think if any fault's to be distributed for those games, it has to be on Flash. Was effort lucky to catch the MM moving out with his lings? Yes, he was lucky Flash didn't scout, and lucky Flash had his medics out of place. The "luck" in that situation could've easily been nullified by Flash, but it wasn't. Similarly, was effort lucky flash didn't block well on match point? To a degree, but with proper scouting and reaction, that runby could've been blocked and the dam never would've broken. It would've been great play. The fact that it never happened is Flash's fault, not effort's.

Is Flash a better player than Effort? I'd be inclined to say yes. Unfortunately, that's largely irrelevant in almost every type of competition. The better player doesn't always win and, as they say, that's why they play the games.

On May 29 2010 00:17 Plexa wrote:
Again, I give credit where it's due. Does preparing a 2hatch speedling bust into 2hatch mutalisk deserve the same amount of respect as a well thought out drop break?