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I have to agree with Plexa to some extent. To quote myself from the LR thread:
On May 24 2010 13:45 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:
After seeing their somewhat decent match in proleague where Effort managed to hold on to his early advantage into a win, after seeing the nail-biting Flash vs. Action game that really came down to the wire... I think we have a certain right to be disappointed by this series. Especially watching live, seeing the amazing introduction transition into the massive delays, and ultimately staying awake all night only to witness anticlimactic games that would remind someone of a series between go.go and Kwanro.
Effort did what he had to to win, and win he did. He had strong mental fortitude after being down two games, and he had good preparation and even a little bit of luck. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that he won the series on the back of great late-game management or anything here. When a game did go that far, he squandered a huge lead and was crushed. And Flash, of course, squandered an even bigger lead by losing the series trying to pull stupid crap.
Stripping away any allegiances and speaking only as a spectator, the games were weak, uninspiring, and definitely unfulfilling. Ugh.
So yes, Plexa, I agree that the games weren't that much to look at. I agree that one decent late-game win over Flash would have not only been better to watch, but would have "legitimized" the victory so that it wouldn't feel quite as hollow. I agree that Effort's play wasn't as convincing as I'd hoped it would be, and I agree that Effort is probably not the better player, but did what he had to to win. I blame both Effort and Flash for making it a mostly subpar series, but I can't blame Effort for winning.
Most people here seem to agree as well, despite their aversion to your anti-Zerg rant.
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i didnt think people thought effort was bad. hes amazing and its too bad that he had to play during the same era as jaedong, who makes every other zerg barely noticeable in his massive shadow.
i dont understand why you hate zerg so much. i like to root for the underdog. there is a pretty much concensus among the pros that terran has a slight advantage in TvZ. Imo bunker rushes and strong sunken busts are far more effective than anything in the zerg early game arsenal.
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United States11390 Posts
On May 28 2010 23:25 Plexa wrote:
Dear I say it, Jaedong now looks stronger than Jaedong at any other point in history (in my eyes).
Jaedong is stronger than Jaedong??
Lies. Dong isn't that good imo.
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On May 29 2010 06:20 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 23:25 Plexa wrote:
Dear I say it, Jaedong now looks stronger than Jaedong at any other point in history (in my eyes).
Jaedong is stronger than Jaedong?? Lies. Dong isn't that good imo.
JvJ, the most incredible matchup in ESPORTS history.
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Such a troll. More "deserves" bullshit argument. Winning is the point of the game, not to impress Plexa. And still el oh el at your bitterness of Jaedong vs fantasy. I remember your "here to stay" article and you were still harping how fantasy was the better player.
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told you guys his power rankings are super biased against effort
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terrible
If I could give this blog negative stars, I would.
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EffOrt is like the king of macro zergs.. He pretty much NEVER cheeses, which is why his aggressive strategic style probably threw flash off and got him the title.
It was so ironic to see EffOrt use kwanro's build in game 5 because it's the complete opposite of his regular style.
FlaSh knew that Shine and Kwanro are hyperaggressive players, so he was easily able to deal with them by playing a safe defensive style, but a passive macro player like EffOrt exploited a less prepared flash by using aggressive strategies.
And yeah EffOrt isn't bad - he's totally awesome. Not as awesome as Jaedong, but not many are.
1 star blog
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On May 29 2010 02:04 TommyGG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 01:12 Plexa wrote:On May 29 2010 01:09 Malinor wrote:
Since your blog is basically a rant, I am not too concerned about your controversial statements and rather found them amusing.
However, the way you make it sound like game 4 of Jaedong vs Fantasy and game 4 of Effort vs Flash were "Dirty Zerg"-play is really not helping your argument. Fantasy built a proxy fac (which Jaedong scouted) and Flash tried to BBS (and got scouted). Of course they adjusted their game-plan accordingly. If they would have played "Dirty Zerg" regardless we cannot know. Finally someone who gets it. The only worthwhile thing to take from this blog is that Flash /Jaedong > Effort skillwise and Plexa watched the finals less than 3 hours ago. why are you including this? is this being said as some sort of an excuse?
the topic has slowly been turning to excuses as soon as people starting blinding him with reason, that's what most people do when they realize they cant come back from half of what people are saying they go er guys i was just joking! or some other thing to account for their wrongful views, even though it has nothing to do with it
On May 29 2010 00:41 asdfTT123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 00:37 IdrA wrote:
you are literally the most clueless person ive ever seen write about sc players
stop having opinions +100000000000
1000% agree
as far as ive ever seen the only reason plexa gets to publish articles is because he's able to write super long posts with lots of big words and pictures, this is a very good example of quantity =/= quality. Of course everyone is going to have some bias but COME ON this shit has always been way out of control and makes for a worthless article that has little point to read except to fuel my fire for plexa dislike, which isnt the way it should be
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can some one else than this fool write the next PR, PLEASE
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The most surprising thing about the OSL finals to me is that Flash, for the second finals in a row, opened the games with worse builds than his zerg opponent (especially if you include the opener in the canceled game 1 vs Effort). That JD read Flash so perfectly last MSL finals surprised me; for Effort to do it this OSL finals was shocking.
If Flash once again is the worse player in the first three minutes of the games tonight, he's going to lose to JD again, and he'll have lost all three of his last finals in the same exact way as far as I can see.
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I don't quite understand how you could belittle Effort for playing "dirty" when the occasion with 'cheese' was in game 4 and it was performed by Flash.
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Was going to write up a long reply to this, but Roffles pretty much covered all the points I wanted to. You know, I think very few people would say that Effort is the better player overall, however, to call him bad just because he exploited Flash's weakness is a bit too much. Especially considering his recent streak; yes the tiebreaker wasn't pretty, but he's appeared to come out of whatever funk he was in since then.
Effort saw opportunities, and you can't blame him for taking them. You say this is a dirty style, and you defend Boxer bunker rushing Yellow three times in a row because it was innovative. So does that mean all the times Flash successfully bunker rushes or uses BBS is dirty, because it's no longer a really innovative strategy? (Though I will concede that he generally doesn't win with it three times in a row in what's supposed to be an epic series.)
And Effort really didn't all-in cheese any of the games. Don't recall game 3 too well, but I know he sacrificed some lings while holding a decent amount back, and Flash moved out without enough information. You can call this luck if you're really that petty, and it might have been to an extent, but it looked like he intentionally held those lings back. Game 4 was Flash stubbornly trying to catch Effort off guard after his cheese attempt was spotted. Effort defended beautifully, though Flash was already pretty far behind. In game 5 Flash went for an early base without the means to properly defend it; Effort exploited this.
Once again, I don't think many would argue that Flash is generally the better player, but to call Effort bad is just blatant fanboyish rage. I really hope your dislike for Effort and love for Flash don't cause the next power rank to be too heavily biased (especially should Flash lose to Jaedong tonight.) I'm not expecting Effort to make top 3 (though I would argue 3), but to not make top 5 would be a crime.
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You seem like you're suggesting that players opt for a much more riskier strategy during the game when scouting your opponent doing something that's leaving a huge hole in his defense to exploit with a common strategy. Innovation is cool when it's used to mind fuck your opponents (and I've seen few games with this pulled off and they're amazing), but when the title is on the line and outsmarting the opponent with a common strategy that's easier than a risky one is something I would choose (especially for those best of 5 sets that are in a single day).
I recall an earlier episode of Day[9] stating that idealy the ultimate goal with risky strategies is to execute them well and be able to transition to a mid-late game that is generally the same as if they opened up with a safe build. I would opt for a safer build if there wasn't certainty to an outcome of a planned attack. Yeah safe builds are not an exciting performance, but at least the chances of losing earlier are reduced quite a bit.
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On May 29 2010 10:42 koreasilver wrote:
I don't quite understand how you could belittle Effort for playing "dirty" when the occasion with 'cheese' was in game 4 and it was performed by Flash.
apparently 8rax isn't cheesy, but opening anything other than 3hatch is
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wtf is "dirty zerg" supposed to mean? if fantasy can't defend against a 2 hatch muta that's his fault. jaedong was exposing a weakness, not playing dirty.
also effort is still like the 2nd or 3rd best zerg, so i dunno what ur talking about. ur just bitter cuz flash choked
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Kwanro.
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I mean, Kwanro's old 2hatch build is kinda pretty much what Effort did in game 3.
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Stopped reading it after something about 2hatch muta being cheese. It was pretty interesting before, though.
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Ahahahaha... this might be the first time I've ever agreed with you on an issue like this Plexa. For quite some time I thought this day would never come! I honestly don't know what to say... this feeling of wanting to just post in support rather than write out a long post disagreeing is so strange.
I guess I have to mention that I disagree on the Jaedong vs Fantasy part, at least. In no way is Jaedong ever outclassed by Fantasy. Game 5's vulture kill into valk sniping pretty much proved Jaedong had figured Fantasy's gimmicky play out.
Also, I can't believe you guys are even arguing this, but forward-base 2hatch muta is most definitely all-in. 2 hatch muta itself is borderline at best (look at games like Jaedong vs Ruby on Blue Storm where Jaedong eventually ggs out despite doing massive damage to Ruby for like 10 minutes), but adding your 2nd gas at a base that not only isn't your natural, but is toward the other player's base... come on people.
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EPT
