EPTOn May 29 2010 00:49 Plexa wrote:
I'll concede the Jaedong point, because that probably is just me being an angry fanboy.
I'll concede the Jaedong point, because that probably is just me being an angry fanboy.
I give you credit for being honest.
Effort is still bad - Page 6
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Gnabgib
United States381 Posts
I give you credit for being honest. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2762 Posts
Then you state that p's can't do this? What about bunker rushing? All the one base chenanigans T can do? Vult drop, marine drop, runby, floating facs... Proxy double gate for P, some fast push no corsair all in? If a Bo5 doesn't determine the better player than what does? Flash is a notorious Bo5 lozer, he is the one who resembles "No, he'll never win a Starleague", he should have won so much more than he did, but he's a machine, so predictable. That's a weakness. The underdog position is a real position. Effort was in there, Flash should've known that. Opening 14nex is very risky in that situation. A bo5 is to long for a Flash. | ||
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Gnabgib
United States381 Posts
On May 29 2010 00:37 IdrA wrote: you are literally the most clueless person ive ever seen write about sc players stop having opinions I have been giggling non-stop for like, 10 minutes because of this. I heart you. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
2. #1 is really irrelevant. This is starcraft, not "dancing with the stars". As long as you follow the rules, it's on you to respond to anything your opponent does - rather than cry and call it unfair. This simple metric of success is what defines SC as a competitive game and ultimately makes it a "sport". 3. I hope this is a troll. | ||
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Mikami_
Estonia274 Posts
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On May 29 2010 02:45 disciple wrote: I dont think EffOrt is a terrible player, only ForGG may say that, but I dont think he is that good either. You just have to compare him with Calm, the other kind of new rising zerg star and a SL champion. Imo Calm is superior in every way and I think he has a lot more room to improve, where's the infamous EffOrt of 2009 got raped with scouts by Bisu on the day that Bisu had a Bo3 against Flash... Effort 2009 started after WL. And if anyone has still a lot more room to improve its Effort, not Calm who pretty much reached his limit... Calm has a horrible late game compared to all the other big zergs. | ||
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G3CKO
Canada1430 Posts
On May 29 2010 00:37 IdrA wrote: you are literally the most clueless person ive ever seen write about sc players stop having opinions Hahaha IdrA laying down the smackdown | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
lol Effort went 14-2 since the OSL tiebreak, with 3-0 Kal and 3-2 Flash, and he's "still bad" | ||
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WWJDD
India342 Posts
But I agree with Idra for the rest. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Fans/haters won't ever admit they're wrong. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On May 29 2010 04:07 Roffles wrote: Haters gonna hate okay? Fans/haters won't ever admit they're wrong. Yeah seriously, Plexa is crying because Effort bitchslapped his boy. Maybe Effort, the OSL winner who deserved it by outplaying Flash while down 0-2, will make it through the Plexa fanboy bias and make power rank next month! Oh boy. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On May 29 2010 00:04 BroOd wrote: I disagree profoundly with the assertion that gamers should be consciously trying to manufacture "quality games". As an audience, it's obviously preferable for us to watch pendulous momentum and artful climaxes, but this experience has to come organically from both players operating at a high level. If a game doesn't work on this level, I feel that the general "blame" (and I don't like calling it that) has to be placed on the loser. If flash had managed to deflect effort's play style, it would've been admittedly brilliant play, but he didn't. He succumbed to it, and as such, the onus for not providing high quality resistance and by extension high quality games falls on flash. The notion of playing games with the expressed purpose of being "epic" is contrary to the driving spirit behind competition. People who compete at such a high level have to do so with singular mind and purpose. It has to be over-riding and all consuming. If you're in the world series finals for baseball, with the game tied and a man on third, you're going to bunt or sacrifice-fly ball to bring him in and score a run. You're not going to swing away and try to hit a home run, even though it might be more of an "epic" way to win a game, certainly moreso that bunting. You do this because you're playing to win, and playing percentages. I think that's what effort was doing. Despite his play style in the last three games being technically considered more of a "risky" style, I think it provided him with the best chance to win, and a much higher odds of winning than by trying to win three consecutive games with a standard style while being down 0-2. He was playing to win, and he won. He did his job. The fact that the games weren't epic is simply not his fault, and it certainly shouldn't count as a mark against him. I also agree with the above. And I really, really disagree with (this has nothing to do with Effort and everything to do with sport): Plexa's ridiculous thoughts: hat pisses me off the most, is that the OSL final lasted for hours but the last three games took a combined total time of about 30mins. Just like Pusan vs July. What an utter slap in the face to all the SC fans out there wanting to see an amazing 3rd, 4th or even a 5th game. Just one of those going into a late game where Effort won would have legitimized his victory by so much (but hey, he wouldn't have won anyway lol). Playing the dirty-zerg style is an insult to anyone who loves this game. The moment you start playing "epic" for fans and stop trying to win is the moment StarCraft becomes like scripted wrestling and less like a sport. The reason we have epic moments in the first place is because players don't try purposely to make epic games. A "slap in the face to fans" lol would you rather Effort just let Flash 14cc without any sort of punishment? It's mind boggling how much I disagree with this article even outside my obvious Effort bias. Why not have OSL finals played on fastest then, thats essentially what you're saying. You wrote a huge two part article about iloveoov who earned his late game advantage through excellent minimalistic early game defense. And now you're completely discounting someone's win (Effort's) because his opponent failed to do what oov was so great at. How can you miss such an obvious parallel? Flash is not iloveoov because he lacked the ability to defend early game like oov did. | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
1. Effort 2. Effort 3. Jaedong 4. Effort 5. Snow 6. Skyhigh 7. Iris 8. Kal 9. Baby 10. Snow CBNC: Movie, Orion, MIsO, Devil, BBYong, Rush, invade, IdrA | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On May 29 2010 04:15 jalstar wrote: Hot_Bid's Power Rank: 1. Effort 2. Effort 3. Jaedong 4. Effort 5. Snow 6. Skyhigh 7. Iris 8. Kal 9. Baby 10. Snow CBNC: Movie, Orion, MIsO, Devil, BBYong, Rush, invade, IdrA I would put Snow above Effort #3. | ||
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
Personally I don't think Effort is bad. However, he is still nowhere near the skill level of Flash or Jaedong. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
I'm sure there will be some handy excuse to keep flash on the top for june even after he loses to jaedong. "He made it into 2 finals! nobody else did!" | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Down 0-2, Effort could have easily choked and lost game 3 in disappointing fashion, but he came back to deliver only the second 0-2 to 3-2 in OSL finals history. Sure, they were short games, but a win is a win. And there's no doubt that in games 3 and 5, he played some ridiculous mind games with Flash. Everyone praised July for toying around with Best at EVER, why can't Effort get a little credit for some ridiculously sick ling play? Watching games 3 and 5 made me realize how much of a mindgame Starcraft is. Sure, you can say he never had to play late game, but why play late game when you can win early game? Bottom line is, Effort exposed Flash, did what other zergs haven't been able to do as of late, and he won because of it. After watching the tiebreakers, I at first thought Effort shouldn't have advanced, but I realized that mulligans are just a part of the process. Incruit wouldn't have been Incruit had Stork not been given a second shot in the wildcards. If he really didn't belong, he wouldn't have found himself in the Finals. And when has ZvT been easy? Serious? TvZ has always been the epitome of imbalance, along with ZvP. Terrans can cheese an 8 rax, lift off, and still be in pretty good shape. When has zerg been able to 4 pool, do no damage, yet still be fine? | ||
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frogmelter
United States971 Posts
But honestly, you forget that FlaSh is the god of cheese. He has cheesed Jaedong out of an OSL and cheesed other players out of leagues [Bisu I think] ruining other good series. How is this not a "Dirty Terran Style". I noticed you only listed Zergs as the one cheating people of a good series. All races have cheated us of a good series. I see no reason to pick on Zerg. And more on this "Dirty Zerg Style". 5 pool is also considered pretty cheap but it is entertaining to watch. Would that still be considered skill-less and cheap even though it is entertaining to watch? And we've seen what happened when a pro-gamer tried to be epic. Hiya vs Free. Wraiths, Nukes, and other jazz in a TvP. The result? He got stomped. Would you rather EffOrt mass queens and Infested Terran and lose a series that he might have won otherwise or just play a style that is less entertaining to watch but give him the maximum chance of winning? | ||
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
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