• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:06
CEST 04:06
KST 11:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting9[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET5Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada The New Patch Killed Mech! herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more... TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) WardiTV Mondays RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game [Interview] Grrrr... 2024 Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1634 users

Effort is still bad

Blogs > Plexa
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 15:37:53
May 28 2010 14:25 GMT
#1
Oh dear, it looks like I am fashionably late for this party. But with the MSL finals upon us this just felt appropriate.

Edit: I probably should have said this earlier, but.... this article is two fold. Firstly is an angry fanboy upset that Flash lost the final doing dumb shit that he hasn't done in years. Secondly, is that Effort is still not "good" in the grand scheme of things despite winning a Starleague. He won this league through luck, not through skill.
[image loading]


Alright, rewind.

I have weird way of respecting Zergs. For me to respect you you need to be creative or innovative in some way. For a long time I despised Jaedong because he was a member of Lecaf because he was a boring player to watch. His entire gameplan was basically to exploit the other races being greedy and win. Sure there are some notable exceptions to this, but as far as I am concerned he contributed nothing to SC for the best part of his early career. More recently, I've come to respect his gameplay (still an anti-fan though). He's creating innovative builds to out greed the other races, showing amazing management in the process, and devising some of the most brilliant builds I've ever seen Zerg players use. Dear I say it, Jaedong now looks stronger than Jaedong at any other point in history (in my eyes).

But you also have the complete opposite, those who have raw aggression and break you down with waves upon waves of attacks. The player I have in mind here is obviously Kwanro. No, he'll never win a Starleague, but his "cheeses" are not just your run of the mill cheese. They don't rely on your opponent to fuck up, they work because he's Kwanro and he's honed his attacking skills to a point where its an art form. You can read up all about why I love Kwanro so much in this thread.

But then there is the dark side of Zerg. The dark, evil, cheesy, skill-less side which rears it's ugly head every so often. This beast can consume some of the greatest Zerg players and leave potentially epic series in ruins. They are a plague on the Starcraft scene.

My first encounter with such a Zerg was actually July. Now July is great and awesome and I love him to bits, but OGN devised such a map pool to fuck protoss over, that Pusan vs July from Shinhan 2005 was the worst semifinal ever played. Worse than July vs Backho - yes, that bad.

You can try to watch the series over on pandora.tv (here) but I doubt it will work and it is certainly not worth your time. I recommend you read this battle report by Mani instead, it makes the games at least 322% better.

July defeated Pusan in under 30 minutes after Pusan had proclaimed a 90% PvZ winrate in practice (I don't doubt this claim, the POS house is where Corsair play in PvZ was developed). The series could have been incredible, but it wasn't because July (and Pusan) had to exploit the maps and cheese their way through the semifinal. It was utterly depressing. The game did not reflect the talent of either player and the series did not do either of them justice. Furthermore, July crumpled against Oov in the final trying to pull similar tactics - perhaps if the map pool was better Pusan would have been in the final instead. (or at least July would have played better).

[image loading]
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

The ditry-zerg style had left a bitter taste in my mouth, and my resent for this style grew and grew. If there was one Zerg who encapsulated this style it was Silver. The Zerg who hydra rushed every single ZvP and somehow fluked his way into an MSL final. Silver had no real talent, he wasn't going to be around next season. And indeed, he was eliminated rather promptly. But at what cost? He eliminated the following Protoss from the MSL: Pusan, Nal_ra (lucky Boxer retired), Kingdom and Daezang. All of whom were better players than him and could have made that season of the MSL soooo much better.

The temptation to play dirty-zerg as a style is a strong one. In this age where greed defines all three races, a cleverly hidden cheese can easily net you a quick victory. When you're up against players who are better than you and there's money on the line - this becomes a very luring temptation which many Zergs decide to follow. With that said, Zergs who liked to employ this style a lot (such as Yarnc and hero and whatnot) invariably get eliminated by better players later on and really are just a waste of space.

[image loading]
Exhibit B: a complete and utter tosser

Dirty-zerg has one other temptation which lures players in, and it is this kind which pisses me off more than anything else. When a Zerg has his back against the wall with nothing to lose and is CLEARLY outclassed in every way, cheese and hope for the best. This attitude towards the game just ruins what is left of a series and just leaves you feeling like someone took a dump in your stomach.

The prime example of this is Jaedong during Batoo OSL. This is an OSL that Jaedong did not deserve to win. Since this is a fairly recent series, the VODs are in the spoilers below:
+ Show Spoiler [game 1] +

+ Show Spoiler [game 2] +

+ Show Spoiler [game 3] +

+ Show Spoiler [game 4] +

+ Show Spoiler [game 5] +

Once Jaedong went down 0-2, something clicked in his head and he must have thought "oh well, mayaswell 2hatch muta to have some fun and make the most of things" and then won the next three games because of it. Yes I understand 2 hatch muta is a legitimate strategy, but it was the easy way out and games 3-4-5 sucked because of it. Fantasy played a better tournament throughout and had the series in the bag, but Jaedong resorted to dirty-zerg to weasel Fantasy out of an OSL victory.

Jaedong may be the better player any other day of the week, and he is certainly the better player today. But on the night of that final, Fantasy was the superior player and when Jaedong was backed against the wall he resorted to the lowest tricks in the book to win. As a small aside, it frustrates me that Terran and Protoss do not have this opportunity against Zerg - so if a Zerg has a bad day he can still cheese his way to a win, but if a Terran has a bad day he gets 0-3'd.

[image loading]
Destroying players by any means necessary

And that brings us to Effort vs Flash and why Effort still sucks. Once again we have a valiant Terran player who played a far better tournament than the Zerg, who went on to play better games than the Zerg in the final, only to get lamed out of the final by a skill-less Zerg.

Okay, Flash made mistakes in the final - but because of the style that Effort played in those games (dirty-zerg) those mistakes were game deciding as opposed to game influencing like the usually are. Games 3 and 4 were basically Flash moving out against Effort (who is preparing an all-in attack) and getting caught out of position twice and losing. While game 5 is speedling lameness. You cannot seriously sit down and assess all 5 games and tell me that Flash was the inferior player during the series, not by a long shot.

What pisses me off the most, is that the OSL final lasted for hours but the last three games took a combined total time of about 30mins. Just like Pusan vs July. What an utter slap in the face to all the SC fans out there wanting to see an amazing 3rd, 4th or even a 5th game. Just one of those going into a late game where Effort won would have legitimized his victory by so much (but hey, he wouldn't have won anyway lol). Playing the dirty-zerg style is an insult to anyone who loves this game.

Even further, Effort did not even deserve to be in the final!! Recall the night of horrific regames? Effort looked so so soooo bad during that night. He hasn't even looked much better since to be perfectly honest, he just keeps keep using dirty tactics and getting lucky. Seriously, Effort is the worst kind of Zerg there is and him and all others like him should just retire and play SC2 (it's probably more suited to their talents, or lack of).

Expect Effort to drop out of the next OSL in the Ro16 0-3. He doesn't deserve anything else.

----- ON THE BRIGHTER SIDE OF SC LAND -----

Jaedong has completely evolved into well rounded Zerg. His preparation for BoX series recently has been phenomenal. Just look at the builds he prepared for his last final - he prepared super greedy builds which deep tactical insight. He's not preparing cheap all in builds with no care for the quality of the game he produces, he's doing builds which make for excellent games (assuming his opponent keeps up).

Flash on the other hand is still the best (just) progamer in the universe. So he lost to some cheesy Zerg through some uncharacteristic mistakes, big deal. He's still going to play utterly amazing games and Flash vs Jaedong is going to be the final that we all wanted and dreamed about. Even if the games are 5 cheeses, I have faith that they won't be mindless cheeses and instead deep and tactical.

*
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
May 28 2010 14:32 GMT
#2
this is really interesting. I like the kwanro bit, it's actually eye opening.

i've always just looked at what progamers do as the final say, but this puts it in more of a critical view, very cool!

THX GREAT WRITEUP!
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 28 2010 14:33 GMT
#3
why u so mad Plexa?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
SoManyDeadLings
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada255 Posts
May 28 2010 14:40 GMT
#4
Flash is too stubborn and inflexible, at least during the OSL finals.

Losing to pretty much the same strategy three times in a row is inexcusable.

Plus, at the end of the day, results are what matter the most.
wsrgry
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
May 28 2010 14:42 GMT
#5
On May 28 2010 23:40 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
Flash is too stubborn and inflexible, at least during the OSL finals.

Losing to pretty much the same strategy three times in a row is inexcusable.

Plus, at the end of the day, results are what matter the most.


what about at the end of the year?
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Corrupt
Profile Joined August 2009
Bulgaria1312 Posts
May 28 2010 14:47 GMT
#6
Oh, this is so true... thank you for this article Plexa.
Just a guy trying to enjoy living in the worst timeline and failing miserably since 1990.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 15:04:30
May 28 2010 14:50 GMT
#7
On May 28 2010 23:33 Ace wrote:
why u so mad Plexa?

He hates Z. He subliminally likes Kwanro because he'll never take away a championship from one of the T/Ps.

As a small aside, it frustrates me that Terran and Protoss do not have this opportunity against Zerg - so if a Zerg has a bad day he can still cheese his way to a win, but if a Terran has a bad day he gets 0-3'd.
This is honestly the most absurd thing you've ever written.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
colonel_west
Profile Joined June 2008
Sweden7 Posts
May 28 2010 14:50 GMT
#8
Zerg players will (and should) allways throw in some cheeze in a box, just to make sure the opponents dont get to greedy. If you can throw 3 such in and win all of them, then thats a bonus for the zerg that says more about the skill of the opponent.
ei forever
DorF
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden961 Posts
May 28 2010 14:52 GMT
#9
well done
BW for life !
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
May 28 2010 14:53 GMT
#10
I hope the game ends as Flash Bunker rushes 3x
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
May 28 2010 14:53 GMT
#11
On May 28 2010 23:40 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
Flash is too stubborn and inflexible, at least during the OSL finals.

Losing to pretty much the same strategy three times in a row is inexcusable.

Plus, at the end of the day, results are what matter the most.
Being caught the way he did and getting flanked the way he did doesn't mean he inflexible. I would argue he's very very unlucky to have that happen in consecutive games given how every other TvZ he's played in the past year has gone. Overall, Flash was playing an experimental series- more so than he did against Jaedong at least
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Artifex
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Belgium189 Posts
May 28 2010 14:56 GMT
#12
On May 28 2010 23:40 SoManyDeadLings wrote:
Losing to pretty much the same strategy three times in a row is inexcusable.

Plus, at the end of the day, results are what matter the most.


Couldn't have said it better myself. You deserve to lose if you don't adjust to your opponent, even if it is "dirty" play.
Fear. Fear that the zerg are expanding all over the map and there's nothing you can do. The Swarm. Your doom. Now is the time to panic. The terran and protoss are trying to survive. The Zerg are trying to obliterate them. - Stane
IrT4nkz
Profile Joined May 2010
229 Posts
May 28 2010 14:59 GMT
#13
This wouldn't feel so biased towards Zerg if the OP included players from the other races who cheesed their way to victory >.>
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13064 Posts
May 28 2010 15:00 GMT
#14
Dirty zerg ? What the hell !

Does this makes Flash Dirty terran whenever he plays JD in bo3 he cheeses twice out of 3 games then?
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
May 28 2010 15:02 GMT
#15
On May 28 2010 23:50 colonel_west wrote:
Zerg players will (and should) allways throw in some cheeze in a box, just to make sure the opponents dont get to greedy. If you can throw 3 such in and win all of them, then thats a bonus for the zerg that says more about the skill of the opponent.

Completely disagree. Cheese can be used as a strategic weapon (e.g. Jaedong 5 pool against Fantasy). Cheese can be used to cheat us of a excellent series and make me pissed off (e.g. Jaedong against Fantasy in Batoo).
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25986 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-28 15:03:44
May 28 2010 15:03 GMT
#16
Why would you write a ridiculous title like that? To upset some people and rope them in?

Edit: Maybe it's a joke or something I didn't read to find out because the title is so absurd.
Moderator
BroOd
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Austin10831 Posts
May 28 2010 15:04 GMT
#17
I disagree profoundly with the assertion that gamers should be consciously trying to manufacture "quality games". As an audience, it's obviously preferable for us to watch pendulous momentum and artful climaxes, but this experience has to come organically from both players operating at a high level. If a game doesn't work on this level, I feel that the general "blame" (and I don't like calling it that) has to be placed on the loser. If flash had managed to deflect effort's play style, it would've been admittedly brilliant play, but he didn't. He succumbed to it, and as such, the onus for not providing high quality resistance and by extension high quality games falls on flash.

The notion of playing games with the expressed purpose of being "epic" is contrary to the driving spirit behind competition. People who compete at such a high level have to do so with singular mind and purpose. It has to be over-riding and all consuming.

If you're in the world series finals for baseball, with the game tied and a man on third, you're going to bunt or sacrifice-fly ball to bring him in and score a run. You're not going to swing away and try to hit a home run, even though it might be more of an "epic" way to win a game, certainly moreso that bunting. You do this because you're playing to win, and playing percentages. I think that's what effort was doing. Despite his play style in the last three games being technically considered more of a "risky" style, I think it provided him with the best chance to win, and a much higher odds of winning than by trying to win three consecutive games with a standard style while being down 0-2. He was playing to win, and he won. He did his job. The fact that the games weren't epic is simply not his fault, and it certainly shouldn't count as a mark against him.
ModeratorSIRL and JLIG.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
May 28 2010 15:07 GMT
#18
On May 28 2010 23:59 IrT4nkz wrote:
This wouldn't feel so biased towards Zerg if the OP included players from the other races who cheesed their way to victory >.>

There are considerably less players that do that. Indeed, none that have ever won starleague that's for sure lol. It's more difficult to name them because they get eliminated in the prelims. However, Backho managed to cheese his way to the OSL semis (including cheesing jaedong out of the prelims) and he sucks (decent pvp though). Cheesy terrans are Terrans like Sync but who the hell remembers sync lol.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
May 28 2010 15:07 GMT
#19
On May 29 2010 00:03 Chill wrote:
Why would you write a ridiculous title like that? To upset some people and rope them in?

Edit: Maybe it's a joke or something I didn't read to find out because the title is so absurd.

Because Effort is bad.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25986 Posts
May 28 2010 15:09 GMT
#20
0 stars.
Moderator
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft182
Nina 69
Dota 2
monkeys_forever754
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 543
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe232
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor163
Other Games
summit1g13702
ZombieGrub307
ViBE136
Trikslyr53
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick7376
BasetradeTV41
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra719
• WagamamaTV380
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
7h 54m
Safe House 2
14h 54m
IPSL
16h 54m
Sziky vs Havi
Artosis vs Klauso
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 13h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Online Event
5 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.