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New Intro:
I posted this blog entry (my first) late on Sunday night while waiting for GSL Code A to come on. I decided to watch the IdrA vs. Drewbie matches from the IGN Pro League, as I had not gotten a chance to sit through them yet. What I found was exciting, yet somewhat disconnected commentary from the beloved caster known as TotalBiscuit (or TotalHalibut as I knew him in the strictly WoW days). It was quite literally 1:00 AM, and after the second match, I decided that I would finally write a blog post, posting my feelings about the somewhat lackluster commentary from casters, focusing on this matchup casted by TotalBiscuit. What resulted was a bit of flaming and ranting about how I feel casters should strive to better themselves.
People proceeded to launch attacks on all fronts, and my thoughts were tied in with other people simply flaming TB and other casters for no purpose other than to satisfy themselves and/or vent a bit of frustration. I went for a run this afternoon, 5k views and 100+ posts later, and thought about how much commotion had come from this simple blog post.
I just want to clarify that my intention was to call attention to the gaps that our beloved casters can fill, in order to better themselves. I have sent feedback to many casters, both positive and negative, and it's been met with mixed reactions in the past. The same turned out to be true here, although this was the most public realm I've used to date. Hell, there were accounts made just to post in my blog, which is far more than I ever expected.
Key Points:
I do not demand that TB or any other caster quit casting. I encourage people to continue to practice and hone their skills on places such as YouTube and lesser tournament streams. I do not demand that casts be boring and strictly analytical. I do enjoy TotalBiscuit's way of presenting a match in general, or I would have been watching the cast muted. I do not speak for eSports as a whole, and I do not demand that you see things my way. I was simply complaining that some casts, such as the matchup I focused on initially, are inaccurate in the information being presented to the audience. It's great that people are excited for games, and I do not wish to take that away. What I want is for casters such as TotalBiscuit to continue their journey, improve their knowledge, and be able to present a more accurate account of the game they are casting. That's really it, guys.
So many people have come to this blog post and tried to start a flame war. I've been criticized in so many ways that I just started laughing at one point. All I ask is that people better themselves. The status quo is not something that anybody on Earth should be happy with. We can all be better than what we are right now. There's no room to debate that, unless you are a member of The Justice League (well, maybe Seaman has some room for improvement, and what good is Wonder Woman's invisible ship if you can see her sitting in it?). In now way am I demanding that casters such as TotalBiscuit stop casting. If anything, as I have typed, I demand that they try and better themselves for the progression of our chosen hobby which is eSports. Please do not continue to write asinine comments about how entertaining casts by TB and others have brought you to the game. We all know, and it's not what I've written about in any way. Give him a break? From what? Improving himself to be a better caster and public representative of the StarCraft community?
With all that out of the way, Here is my original, unedited & pretty harsh, post about Game 1 of the matchup...
Original intro (about me, and partially why I'm posting my first blog entry)+ Show Spoiler +I was a Philosophy major in college. I hate logical fallacies more than most of you hate anything you've ever come across (even the 4-gate!). I just got a wonderful new job, which pays extremely well for a young lad fresh out of college with a semi-useless degree, and hopefully will lead to a computer that will enable me to do my own casts one day. Until then, all I can do is complain here.
I really did try, guys. I have never had a problem understanding people with various accents, I'm well traveled, and I do quite a few impersonations/accents at parties or just in daily life as amusement for myself and others. My problem isn't currently with people sounding professional or whatnot (as there are plenty of concerns about that voiced already). No, my concern is with casters being held accountable for more than just loudly saying what's in front of them on the screen, and even that is becoming harder for some people to do...
This brings me to my first discussion: IdrA vs. Drewbie in the IGN Pro League (Obviously spoilers, so they're spoilered)
Before you post, I'd ask that you at least watch one of these matches again (or for the first time). You may have deep feelings about a caster who I am discussing, but if you don't actually hear and see it for yourself, you really have no way of backing up anything you type into that little white box.
IGN Pro League Video Page From here you can sort using the bar on the left hand side.
Game 1:
+ Show Spoiler +IdrA goes 14 gas/14 pool. TB remarks that it's weird because IdrA could very easily have expanded on XNC, but that his explanation is IdrA wanting to apply early pressure. TB then remarks that the expansion, especially against a Terran, is very accessible. Wait just a second... Didn't you say IdrA could have easily expanded on this map, yet it's vulnerable to harassment of the natural? Okay, maybe he just means that Zerg can harass a Terran?
Drewbie's scouting SCV arrives at IdrA's base, and is said to be sad to not find a hatchery, as it would have fallen in well with Drewbie's aggressive 2 Barracks (called Bunkers at this moment in the cast) build. IdrA pushes out with a few lings, picks off a marine, forces Drewbie to pull the 2nd Rax (built semi-proxy outside his own natural) back to the main.
"Drewbie has no gas, so this is a time for IdrA to do some real damage!" At the moment this is said, IdrA has 2 lings, Metabolic Boost is maybe 1/4 of the way completed, there are half a dozen marines heading to IdrA's base, the rest of the Terran base is locked down/walled, and there are 10 lings being produced. What is IdrA going to do any damage with? His natural hatchery isn't even finished, and he has no tech. How does a zerg with slow lings damage a Terran with 2 barracks who is building more and a command center inside his base? Let alone one trying to get a 2nd base up himeself...
The 11 zerglings head toward Drewbie's base. TB remarks that he is concerned that Drewbie will not be able to "hold the line against that." Really? When's the last time 11 lings did anything to a Terran walled off base with marines standing at the front? Drewbie is building the OC on the expo CC first, so it's not like he's losing out on much of anything, even if the lings manage to contain him for a bit.
Drewbie gets up 2 factories, starts blue flame & hellions, and sits comfortably in his base. IdrA has almost completed a baneling nest and a roach warren. "IdrA still has plenty of time... to go on the attack and start applying some real pressure." TB just got done telling us that IdrA is only going to make drones (because he has an almost insatiable love for them, more than any other zerg), and there are still only 11 lings out on the map. IdrA scouts and retreats to work on opening his gold expansion, while Drewbie finally pushes out with some hellions.
Drewbie starts an armory to upgrade his mech, but TB tells us that it's a strange move because he's not upgrading his marines. Last I checked, those aren't necessarily linked concepts. Realizing the mistake, TB points out that we will probably see Thors or a large number of vehicle upgrades for hellions. Yes, the 2 things that an armory provides are the two things we might see happen... "One way or the other, it certainly does make a lot of sense because his opponent is making lots of roaches." Well upgrading the hellions vs. roaches really doesn't make a lot of sense. And Drewbie had no idea how many roaches were on the field until he ran up and had his hellions pushed back by roaches. By the way, IdrA arrives at the base to find Tanks with Siege Mode (the one thing not mentioned).
IdrA forces the GG after pushing into the base. TB then tells us that the aggressive IdrA we just saw is that which we know and love (and hate). Wait a sec... The start of the game was filled with comments about how we should not be surprised by IdrA making drones rather than military units. He went so far as to call the Gracken "mechanical" and say that he loves drones more than almost any other zerg. Yet, the aggressive style we just saw was classic IdrA in the end... Strange how confused he was with the 14g/14p choice at the start, if this is what we should've expected all along.
Game 2:
It's quite long, and I accomplished what I set out to do. If you've seen it, you don't need explanation. If you haven't seen it, you're just going to flame me and/or generalize.
The moral of this story is that the casters of large tournaments need to be held accountable. How many people complained about Forcefields being called Stasis when the GSL first started? That was just a simple mistake from years of playing the original game. The kind of logical fallacies that we are seeing from, dare I say, the more inexperienced casters, is driving me insane. I don't have the time to put into playing at a professional level, and it's also not what I want to do with my life right now. I'm working on my career, but I really do enjoy being able to sit down and watch StarCraft 2 tournaments when I get some free time. As such, I read a lot of threads on TL and other places, I listen to podcasts, watch streams & tournaments, and really do keep up with what's happening at the highest levels of the game. Just because I cannot execute every high level strategy with ease does not mean that I cannot grasp the vast majority of the intricacies. It also does not prevent my logic check from running in the back of my head, as that happens whenever I hear anybody speak about anything from years of practice and necessity.
You don't have to be a former NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, etc player to be knowledgeable about the sport and have a deep understanding of the game. However, the people who are paid money to talk to us about those games have an even deeper understanding. Turn on ESPN and you'll find a coach or former player breaking down the intricacies of a 10 second play in the game. That person being there is not an accident. We should demand nothing but the best if we truly do want eSports to become respected globally. I know that I've sat down friends and family members who knew nothing more than that StarCraft was a computer game, and had them watch the Day9 Daily, GSL (Code S and pre-A seasons), and the TSL, and they've been able to understand not only what was going on, but why it mattered. Do you really think that someone like that would be able to understand what was going on in these games?
Response to Chill
  
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I can't believe what he was saying in game 1 of the incontrol agh match. No offense, but I really believe he needs to learn his stuff, so that new players don't get any bad ideas from these kind if casters.
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Does anyone not know this? Just press mute, it's alot easier.
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Noooooo
Let sleeping dogs lie!
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I thought it was well known TB was a gold league or something, hes got an awesome voice for casting, but thats about it. He's great for shoutcasting whats going on, but as for strategical analysis, it really should be left to someone more qualified.Artosis can't cast every event yo  .
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On April 25 2011 16:49 GiygaS wrote:
I can't believe what he was saying in game 1 of the incontrol agh match. No offense, but I really believe he needs to learn his stuff, so that new players don't get any bad ideas from these kind if casters.
Believe me, that's another topic hot on my mind. Until then, here's some words. Let me know where the "R" sound comes in on them...
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Some casters know almost nothing about starcraft 2. The reason they are hired by ppls like the IPL is that they can yell about stuff on the screen and are good at it. They can say blatantly ignorant things but it's fine if they can yell about stuff on the screen well.
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I don't listen to TB for his game knowledge. I listen to him becasue it's awesome.
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We should demand nothing but the best if we truly do want eSports to become respected globally
Who's we?
I like TB and overlook his mistakes because so long as he attracts more viewers, interested parties and drums up more popularity for events, the legs of ESports can stand on their own.
No offense, but I am really tired of hearing people wave the flag of E-Sports like it's a prideful patriotic notion that must be upheld in the name of Freedom, Liberty and the Sanctum of a prospering sport that strived for anyone and everyone to at least tune in or get at least a clue of what it is.
Maybe I'm tired, but I really dislike this blog post. Maybe I'm bias towards liking TB? Maybe I'm just becoming so tired of hearing "FOR ESPORTS, WE MUST HAVE RIGID XYZ STANDARDS AND DEMANDS TO PRESERVE THE LIFE OF THIS PROSPERING CONCEPT OF COMPETITIVE NATURE"
I talked to E-Sports, he told me the more the merrier and that he's a big fucking boy.
I'm not denying some people should do their homework [I'm looking at you; HDStarcraft], but be honest; just say you don't like certain casters because they either make unintelligible remarks, go at the game/match the wrong way or simply rub you the wrong way. Rereading your narrative of Game 1, it does sound like TB is way off the mark, maybe it's something that commonly occurs from TB (I never personally noticed, but I don't pay attention to the narration to that extent), maybe your cherry-picking here and simply ignoring what is accepted or normal of a caster to say and purely making a streamline straight towards a caster's faults.
To sum it up as the preservation of E-Sports is to put on a pedestal it should never be on. E-Sports is for everyone. A caster can be anyone, do you blame TB for making poor remarks and calls on the game or do we blame IPL for selecting someone potentially inadequate for these high-caliber play.
Why do we have to blame anyone? Why do we need to have this entitled view that grants the best of the best of the best of everything? Mute the sound, cross your legs and enjoy the games with your own narration. You don't have to go out of your way to avoid something, but don't make it an issue that demands that TB accept his faults, realize his mistakes (which are unintentional) and retire from casting.
P.S: Do you have a vid. of this match (#1) btw? Also, please post Game 2 for a more concrete idea of what you're trying to say.
Edit: I probably drew your entire blog post out of proportion, feel free to correct me and I'll make some proper edits
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I don't think anyone actually thinks TotalBiscuit says super insightful stuff in his casts - that's why he's not casting all the biggest tournaments.
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I have to agree with this really. The abundance of play-by-play casters solo casting in the IPL is the only thing I dislike about it. Sure a lot of people will find their commentary to be entertaining because they are enthusiastic and have a good voice for it, but for me, well I just find it boring. They don't seem to talk about the "big picture", sorry but I don't really care that this scv is making a depo inside his base.... Telling people this guy is making x is not what I want to know, I can see that, I would like to know WHY he made it and how it fits into his strategy. What will come of this? How will the opponent have to react? Will it do well? Is this really a smart thing to do? A caster that talks about this is what I find to be entertaining. Otherwise it's just not worth listening to (IMO), might as well mute and put on some music (which is actually what I did) :p
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On April 25 2011 17:04 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +We should demand nothing but the best if we truly do want eSports to become respected globally Who's we? I like TB and overlook his mistakes because so long as he attracts more viewers, interested parties and drums up more popularity for events, the legs of ESports can stand on their own. No offense, but I am really tired of hearing people wave the flag of E-Sports like it's a prideful patriotic notion that must be upheld in the name of Freedom, Liberty and the Sanctum of a prospering sport that strived for anyone and everyone to at least tune in or get at least a clue of what it is. Maybe I'm tired, but I really dislike this blog post. Maybe I'm bias towards liking TB? Maybe I'm just becoming so tired of hearing "FOR ESPORTS, WE MUST HAVE RIGID XYZ STANDARDS AND DEMANDS TO PRESERVE THE LIFE OF THIS PROSPERING CONCEPT OF COMPETITIVE NATURE" I talked to E-Sports, he told me the more the merrier and that he's a big fucking boy. I'm not denying some people should do their homework [I'm looking at you, HDStarcraft], but be honest; just say you don't like certain casters because they either make unintelligible remarks, go at the game/match the wrong way or simply rub you the wrong way. To sum it up as the preservation of E-Sports is to put on a pedestal it should never be on. E-Sports is for everyone. P.S: Do you have a vid. of this match (#1) btw? Also, please post Game 2 for a more concrete idea of what you're trying to say.
Yay, my first conflict! Note how my post, which you quoted, states "respected globally" as the goal. It does not address your concern, which is simply getting more viewers at any cost. For getting masses of people, sure, yelling loud things in funny voices and having pretty pictures is great. For retaining them (and their interest) and building the brand, as well as the respect in the sporting world (my stated goal), there needs to be a level of accuracy and consistency. I did not address your issue to my knowledge.
Original post edited after I send this with link to the IPL video page. From there, you can filter by caster, player, race, etc (quite a nice system now that the bugs are worked out).
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I re-edited my post, tell me if it needs tweaking or changing.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
I wholeheartedly agree with all of this but I think it's been said. There's plenty of casters out there who are terrible and just say things for the sake of saying things. I used to hate how every caster pointed out Blistering Sands' backrocks, push in stead of attack, Colossi as singular etc. d'Apollo (and even Day9) has a knack for saying "oh this player just LOVES building X" even is X is a scouting Reaper and it just annoys. But yeah it's all been said and said again and I don't think anything will change very soon. I nowadays mute most casters (unless it's TB who is pretty much pure adrenaline injected into my ears <3) and turn on some music in stead. About the accountability, I don't think that the tournament organisers know the game too well and just contact the most popular (read: loudest) guy to invite as caster (IEM Cologne?) and some don't care about the content and pick the popular casters to increase viewer numbers (NASL?).
Now that I think about it, if any tournament is able to pick a caster after a good assessment of their casting ability it's NASL and it's sad to see them go this direction (only found out TB casts NASL through this topic).
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For retaining them (and their interest) and building the brand, as well as the respect in the sporting world (my stated goal), there needs to be a level of accuracy and consistency
The more exposure, the more retention, the possibility of increased interest and thus respect will be gained through numbers and a larger hardened group will bloom analytical casters that have accuracy and consistency.
I think what you're asking (which is accountability) is just purely ridiculous and taking things more sternly than they need to be.
my concern is with casters being held accountable for more than just loudly saying what's in front of them on the screen, and even that is becoming harder for some people to do...
To be honest, what really guts me is this line:
Turn on ESPN and you'll find a coach or former player breaking down the intricacies of a 10 second play in the game. That person being there is not an accident. We should demand nothing but the best if we truly do want eSports to become respected globally.
Wasn't there a lovely topic or blog that stated we shouldn't treat E-Sports equally to actual national sports? Sure wish I had that on-hand.
There is so many things wrong with this quote...
Though I'm going to bed, I feel we both want the same thing, but I think your ideals aren't same as my own, at least not the approach. This idea of "demanding" perpetuates these views that we're an entitled group and our demands are for some noble cause. I might be misinterpreted, but that's the gist of what I'm reading lately in general (maybe not to you personally, but I feel this is equally thinking a parallel idea).
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If you don't like his commentary, don't watch it. I certainly don't.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:14 Pholon wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with all of this but I think it's been said. There's plenty of casters out there who are terrible and just say things for the sake of saying things. I used to hate how every caster pointed out Blistering Sands' backrocks, push in stead of attack, Colossi as singular etc. d'Apollo (and even Day9) has a knack for saying "oh this player just LOVES building X" even is X is a scouting Reaper and it just annoys. But yeah it's all been said and said again and I don't think anything will change very soon. I nowadays mute most casters (unless it's TB who is pretty much pure adrenaline injected into my ears <3) and turn on some music in stead. About the accountability, I don't think that the tournament organisers know the game too well and just contact the most popular (read: loudest) guy to invite as caster (IEM Cologne?) and some don't care about the content and pick the popular casters to increase viewer numbers (NASL?).
Now that I think about it, if any tournament is able to pick a caster after a good assessment of their casting ability it's NASL and it's sad to see them go this direction (only found out TB casts NASL through this topic).
You're confusing NASL with the IPL. The NASL has one caster in grandmasters and one caster who is 19th in line to get into grandmasters.
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On April 25 2011 17:13 Torte de Lini wrote:
I re-edited my post, tell me if it needs tweaking or changing.
Meh, you took your side to it. I welcome actual discussion in all things, and one opinion has no more value than another in something preferential like casting video games. I don't think TB should just retire and run away (although I do seem to recall a big fiasco about him retiring, then coming back, then talking trash about IGN, then casting for them...), but I do maintain that he (and everyone else putting themselves out there in actual tournaments (do what you want and hone your craft on YouTube) should strive to simply be better. As I noted, Nick & Dan had to really work on using the SC2 names for units and spells instead of the SC:BW versions. This was something pointed out quite a bit during the early days of the GSL, and they fixed it. Sure, we knew what they meant, but why not work on the little things to make yourself an overall better caster (since it is an actual career move for most people doing major tournaments).
Sure, this blog post came late at night while I'm waiting for the GSL to appear, and it is quite flammable towards TB, but I don't believe I actually said anything false in it. That's more than can be said for his casting of most IPL matches I've seen thus far. I do watch many tournaments muted, but I love when a caster can get into the action, give an accurate representation of the game's events, and take it that extra step. Each piece that a caster adds to the puzzle adds another level of enjoyment for me. Play-by-play is great, but sometimes even having John Madden show up and draw pictures adds just a little bit extra that puts a broadcast up a level. That's what I'm going for with the eSports pedestal (which I readily admit to standing on from time to time). I just want things to improve because the status quo has the room for it to occur, and only good things can come of it.
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On April 25 2011 17:04 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +We should demand nothing but the best if we truly do want eSports to become respected globally Who's we? I like TB and overlook his mistakes because so long as he attracts more viewers, interested parties and drums up more popularity for events, the legs of ESports can stand on their own. No offense, but I am really tired of hearing people wave the flag of E-Sports like it's a prideful patriotic notion that must be upheld in the name of Freedom, Liberty and the Sanctum of a prospering sport that strived for anyone and everyone to at least tune in or get at least a clue of what it is. Maybe I'm tired, but I really dislike this blog post. Maybe I'm bias towards liking TB? Maybe I'm just becoming so tired of hearing "FOR ESPORTS, WE MUST HAVE RIGID XYZ STANDARDS AND DEMANDS TO PRESERVE THE LIFE OF THIS PROSPERING CONCEPT OF COMPETITIVE NATURE" I talked to E-Sports, he told me the more the merrier and that he's a big fucking boy. I'm not denying some people should do their homework [I'm looking at you; HDStarcraft], but be honest; just say you don't like certain casters because they either make unintelligible remarks, go at the game/match the wrong way or simply rub you the wrong way. Rereading your narrative of Game 1, it does sound like TB is way off the mark, maybe it's something that commonly occurs from TB (I never personally noticed, but I don't pay attention to the narration to that extent), maybe your cherry-picking here and simply ignoring what is accepted or normal of a caster to say and purely making a streamline straight towards a caster's faults. To sum it up as the preservation of E-Sports is to put on a pedestal it should never be on. E-Sports is for everyone. A caster can be anyone, do you blame TB for making poor remarks and calls on the game or do we blame IPL for selecting someone potentially inadequate for these high-caliber play. Why do we have to blame anyone? Why do we need to have this entitled view that grants the best of the best of the best of everything? Mute the sound, cross your legs and enjoy the games with your own narration. You don't have to go out of your way to avoid something, but don't make it an issue that demands that TB accept his faults, realize his mistakes (which are unintentional) and retire from casting. P.S: Do you have a vid. of this match (#1) btw? Also, please post Game 2 for a more concrete idea of what you're trying to say. Edit: I probably drew your entire blog post out of proportion, feel free to correct me and I'll make some proper edits
Heh I remember our little back and forth in PM's about HD's lack of knowledge its funny cause hes a masters player too he i just really ignorant about other races, its actually alot better when painuser is there to correct him but its still hilarious to watch someone make so many blatant mistakes in a cast. HD i think is the worst culprit because I think that he thinks he knows alot so he will just spout off about it. At least TB admits he isnt aware of all the intricacies of the game and says it something hes working on.
Either way they both piss me off in their own right TB more so in IPL because hes solo casting and there is no one to call him on his shit.
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On April 25 2011 17:23 Kogut wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 17:13 Torte de Lini wrote:
I re-edited my post, tell me if it needs tweaking or changing. Meh, you took your side to it. I welcome actual discussion in all things, and one opinion has no more value than another in something preferential like casting video games. I don't think TB should just retire and run away (although I do seem to recall a big fiasco about him retiring, then coming back, then talking trash about IGN, then casting for them...), but I do maintain that he (and everyone else putting themselves out there in actual tournaments (do what you want and hone your craft on YouTube) should strive to simply be better. As I noted, Nick & Dan had to really work on using the SC2 names for units and spells instead of the SC:BW versions. This was something pointed out quite a bit during the early days of the GSL, and they fixed it. Sure, we knew what they meant, but why not work on the little things to make yourself an overall better caster (since it is an actual career move for most people doing major tournaments). Sure, this blog post came late at night while I'm waiting for the GSL to appear, and it is quite flammable towards TB, but I don't believe I actually said anything false in it. That's more than can be said for his casting of most IPL matches I've seen thus far. I do watch many tournaments muted, but I love when a caster can get into the action, give an accurate representation of the game's events, and take it that extra step. Each piece that a caster adds to the puzzle adds another level of enjoyment for me. Play-by-play is great, but sometimes even having John Madden show up and draw pictures adds just a little bit extra that puts a broadcast up a level. That's what I'm going for with the eSports pedestal (which I readily admit to standing on from time to time). I just want things to improve because the status quo has the room for it to occur, and only good things can come of it.
(see bold) Misconception, I believe that's entirely false and it's been clarified. Though I could be wrong.
Sure, TB should improve, I don't deny that. I don't like CatsPajamas casting. I love his voice, I love his choice of wording. I hate everything else that he says, I hate his errors, I hate his fumbling and I hate how he seems scattered or lost when more than one thing occurs at a time in a match. But I don't hold him accountable and it's almost assumed that all casters who are inadequate or still new (relative), strive to improve and I can see him improving (and he's doing great, plus getting some nice exposure!).
I think your blog post just came off maybe poorly worded, though I think I am just purely viewing it as something more than intended, which is a huge problem of mine.
Never compare E-Sports with Sports, you'll always be disappointed of aspects beyond the players and the actual match.
That's what I think.
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EPT
