On April 25 2011 22:40 Chill wrote: I don't understand why people are confusing their opinion with the sole way things have to be.
I really like TotalBiscuit's casting and I don't like you (OP) [I'm making a lot of money with my Philosophy degree FYI, I would be great at casting if I tried, I'm diamond but I'd by masters if I had time, lol]. Notice how I didn't open a blog explaining how you had to change your posting tone? That's because it's my personal opinion, not some universal barometer for quality.
I agree with this sentiment especially. You could take the first paragraph off of the OP and you would still make the same point. Sadly there's a lot of intros of "hey my opinion matters because I have done so and so". There's no need to have self affirmation inside a blog post it just makes you come off as a douchebag.
On April 25 2011 22:40 Chill wrote: I don't understand why people are confusing their opinion with the sole way things have to be.
I really like TotalBiscuit's casting and I don't like you (OP) [I'm making a lot of money with my Philosophy degree FYI, I would be great at casting if I tried, I'm diamond but I'd by masters if I had time, lol]. Notice how I didn't open a blog explaining how you had to change your posting tone? That's because it's my personal opinion, not some universal barometer for quality.
I agree with this sentiment especially. You could take the first paragraph off of the OP and you would still make the same point. Sadly there's a lot of intros of "hey my opinion matters because I have done so and so". There's no need to have self affirmation inside a blog post it just makes you come off as a douchebag.
It's my blog, in all honesty. I'll write what I want. As my first blog post, I did a little bit about who I am. I don't claim a ladder rank, I don't say what I've done, and I don't say that my opinion matters in the first paragraph. Quote it for me if I'm wrong, broski. I literally stated, as the last sentence, that "all I can do is complain" here on Team Liquid, in the blog section. Let me know if I got your argument wrong.
I generally stay away from arguments but I'll throw in my $0.02 from my experiences as a viewer and LR-er. My view is that you're looking at the standards we should hold our commentators up to in the wrong way, but there's nothing wrong with having standards however.
The role of a Commentator varies depending on how the game is progressing, who the audience is, and whether or not s/he has a co-caster or observer for them. But I feel their primary role is to facilitate entertainment. It's what separates a cast from just watching a replay. While there may be an educational component in watching casts, I feel this is more of a secondary priority.
One of the most important things I think the commentator needs to do is to make watching the game interesting. It's one of the reasons we have the memes of "PLAGUUU" and such from the Korean BW commentators. Their enthusiasm and energy can make even relatively dull matches interesting, even though most of us don't understand Korean and can't understand what they're saying. Have I learnt to be gosu A-rank in ICCup from watching BW? Not really. But darn, I really enjoy hearing "MINE DAEBAK". It never gets old.
Now, as for the informative part of casting. There's a lot of down-time in casting, especially during the period of time when players are content to be passive and macro up or something. But the commentator has to keep talking because otherwise it gets boring. It's quite difficult to keep talking no matter what and I think some lee-way should be given to commentators for this. They kinda have to try and keep guessing as to what each player will do as well as keep an eye out for anything that's occurring and be prepared to swap their train of thought mid-sentence at a drop of a pin. Sometimes, they just don't have enough time to fully explain their thoughts.
In TB's case, he has to Obs himself as well as casting so if he make mistakes due to not being able to notice everything, I think that's okay. His mind needs to be focused on what he sees in the production/resource tabs, the current active screen area, the minimap for anything going on, trying to predict the player's moves as well as talking. That's a lot to be doing and it's easy to find mistakes as a viewer, but I feel it's also understandable for mistakes to be made. As an LR-er, I personally admire the abilities of commentators who can keep spotting things going on despite trying to communicate their thoughts.
Should there be standards for commentating? Sure. But I think being completely factually correct in commentating isn't what we should be aiming for. The main purpose of watching casts is for entertainment. Education is more a secondary purpose. If you want to learn, then things like the Day9 Daily. It's sort of how you wouldn't watch the Olympics to learn how to swim for instance. After the cast is over, if you enjoyed it, then the caster did a good job.
If someone 'casting' the Olympics referred to a swimming stroke that wasn't actually being used, it would matter. Accuracy should matter. Have your opinion, I won't stop anyone from that, but saying that casters don't need to be accurate because they can say words in fun ways is a bit absurd from my pov.
On April 26 2011 04:34 TotalBiscuit wrote: Well that was thoroughly depressing to read.
You have REALLY got to stop reading all the random people flaming you.
Personally as someone who used to think TB sucked, I have really grown to like his style and casting and REALLY enjoy it. The best thing is he does not say "OMGZ I'M GM LEAGUE AND PRO!!!", he admits he is there for the play-by-play.
I think the problem is when commentators pretend like they know a lot but don't and try and be analytical instead of play by play. This is not something TB does. TB is there to make you want to get up and scream in excitement at the end of a awesome game, and I don't think there is a single person that does it better then him.
I think TB read the whole thing poorly. Took it more personal than the intended point of the topic...
In any case:
You have REALLY got to stop reading all the random people flaming you.
Personally as someone who used to think TB sucked, I have really grown to like his style and casting and REALLY enjoy it. The best thing is he does not say "OMGZ I'M GM LEAGUE AND PRO!!!", he admits he is there for the play-by-play.
I think the problem is when commentators pretend like they know a lot but don't and try and be analytical instead of play by play. This is not something TB does. TB is there to make you want to get up and scream in excitement at the end of a awesome game, and I don't think there is a single person that does it better then him.
I suppose those kinds of people who try to be analytical and are sometimes unintentionally wrong. They're trying to contribute more to the match than narrative and I think viewing them poorly just tells them to stick with what's easy and natural, rather than extending themselves to something new and potentially more rewarding.
You don't like a caster? Oh lordy - not that - because everything in esports has to match up with what you deem to be correct and perfect!
TB is, *again*, not an analytical caster, but a color commentator. He is popular because people enjoy his work.
If you don't like his words, then mute him, put on some music, and commentate in your head. Mocking one of the biggest individual supporters and proponents of esports (with his time and money) is asinine. Fuck off.
On April 26 2011 04:49 AlexWilhelm wrote: You don't like a caster? Oh lordy - not that - because everything in esports has to match up with what you deem to be correct and perfect!
TB is, *again*, not an analytical caster, but a color commentator. He is popular because people enjoy his work.
If you don't like his words, then mute him, put on some music, and commentate in your head. Mocking one of the biggest individual supporters and proponents of esports (with his time and money) is asinine. Fuck off.
Thanks for only taking the time to read the OP instead of any of the discussions that happened since. Feel free to not stop by my blog posts in the future if it makes you so mad. (See what I did there?)
On April 26 2011 04:49 AlexWilhelm wrote: You don't like a caster? Oh lordy - not that - because everything in esports has to match up with what you deem to be correct and perfect!
TB is, *again*, not an analytical caster, but a color commentator. He is popular because people enjoy his work.
If you don't like his words, then mute him, put on some music, and commentate in your head. Mocking one of the biggest individual supporters and proponents of esports (with his time and money) is asinine. Fuck off.
Thanks for only taking the time to read the OP instead of any of the discussions that happened since. Feel free to not stop by my blog posts in the future if it makes you so mad. (See what I did there?)
Yeah, I was going to say that he totally blew past the point. Good for you!
On April 26 2011 04:51 darthcaesar wrote: For all your talk of logical fallacies, you do make quite a few hasty generalizations. And dare I say, ad hominem.
I'd argue that my ad hominem isn't actually a logical fallacy in this case, but your point is somewhat valid.
Totalbiscuit is by FAR the most exciting caster around. Infact it was a cast he did that got me in to SC2 in the first place.
Now I didn't know much about SC2 at the time and if I had watched that without sound it would have been off after a minute. If I had watched that casted by HD or Husky (great casters as they are) I would not be here writing this post today. With my total lack of knowledge of SC2 and Totalbiscuit casting, I knew something freaking awesome happened in that game and I got excited. I bought SC2 a couple of days later.
TB is not the most knowledgeable caster but he has a very important role to play as a caster. I guarantee that his high tempo commentary has brought in more than myself to this game and people really need to give serious respect to someone who can generate that level of enthuasiasm for a game. So stop bashing him, because SC2 needs him a lot more that it needs the people who can't see the good in him.
I love the absurdity of premising your post with a thinly veiled argument from authority based on a philosophy degree. Not only does the defective induction highlight your lack of philosophical credentials, but your flaunting of an undergraduate degree makes you look more than a little foolish. At least start your PhD before you start using eduation as a real basis for personal authority.
There are very many people who enjoy TBs casting. It may not be your cup of tea, but luckily the world doesn't revolve around you, nor is e-sports determined by your particular (I presume you can pick that out as the negative of 'universal', given the vast extent of your education) whims and fancies. There is no imperative standard beyond entertainment value, and so long as people take pleasure in TBs casting, he should keep at it. I think the variety of styles is a great advantage of the IPLs line up.
That's a good story, and it's great that people are being brought into the fold from casters such as TB. Do keep in mind that I welcomed the YouTube casting to continue (and even streams, for that matter). My issue is with 'major' tournaments being accurately, and dare I say skillfully, casted.
On April 25 2011 22:40 Chill wrote: I don't understand why people are confusing their opinion with the sole way things have to be.
I really like TotalBiscuit's casting and I don't like you (OP) [I'm making a lot of money with my Philosophy degree FYI, I would be great at casting if I tried, I'm diamond but I'd by masters if I had time, lol]. Notice how I didn't open a blog explaining how you had to change your posting tone? That's because it's my personal opinion, not some universal barometer for quality.
I agree with this sentiment especially. You could take the first paragraph off of the OP and you would still make the same point. Sadly there's a lot of intros of "hey my opinion matters because I have done so and so". There's no need to have self affirmation inside a blog post it just makes you come off as a douchebag.
It's my blog, in all honesty. I'll write what I want. As my first blog post, I did a little bit about who I am. I don't claim a ladder rank, I don't say what I've done, and I don't say that my opinion matters in the first paragraph. Quote it for me if I'm wrong, broski. I literally stated, as the last sentence, that "all I can do is complain" here on Team Liquid, in the blog section. Let me know if I got your argument wrong.
And in my response to your blog I'll reserve the right to write a response as I like, the same way chill has You don't have to say that you opinion matters in the first paragraph to make it a self affirmation, it's obvious because you put it as an intro. And as far as youre last line, "all you can do is complain", i feel like youre putting yourself in the group of people who complain about balance in LR threads and complain about casters every chance they get. Which seems plausible considering you made a whole blog about complaining. lol
Is this really five pages about whether you like Totalbiscuit or not? If you don't like him, don't watch him. Don't call him bad because you don't like him, he has a large following whose opinions differ to yours. There's not a magic scale casters abide by, it's opinion. This could've been said in the second post, and ended the discussion there.
EPT
