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.[IPL] IdrA vs. Drewbie - TotalBiscuit casting - Page 2
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:25 cheesemaster wrote: Heh I remember our little back and forth in PM's about HD's lack of knowledge its funny cause hes a masters player too he i just really ignorant about other races, its actually alot better when painuser is there to correct him but its still hilarious to watch someone make so many blatant mistakes in a cast. HD i think is the worst culprit because I think that he thinks he knows alot so he will just spout off about it. At least TB admits he isnt aware of all the intricacies of the game and says it something hes working on. Either way they both piss me off in their own right TB more so in IPL because hes solo casting and there is no one to call him on his shit. Whenever TB casts, he always puts a disclaimer that this is for more amateur or debutante viewers, which is a sort of double-play: It excuses him from making any mistakes because of his equal low [amateur] ranking in the actual ladder and it allows him to follow with more play-by-play rather than extending to something a bit more in-depth or beyond his scope of [current] knowledge. Whether he intentionally tries to learn the game a bit farther despite his ranking, one couldn't say (I always think optimistically and assume so). IF he says he's working on it, good for him! Yeah, the solo-casting is a poor idea, but then again, duo-casting should be more to compliment one another, not for fact-checking [I know what you really meant, I just wanted my last-line to be witty]. Fuck I really need to hit the sack | ||
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Kogut
United States147 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:33 Torte de Lini wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On April 25 2011 17:25 cheesemaster wrote: Heh I remember our little back and forth in PM's about HD's lack of knowledge its funny cause hes a masters player too he i just really ignorant about other races, its actually alot better when painuser is there to correct him but its still hilarious to watch someone make so many blatant mistakes in a cast. HD i think is the worst culprit because I think that he thinks he knows alot so he will just spout off about it. At least TB admits he isnt aware of all the intricacies of the game and says it something hes working on. Either way they both piss me off in their own right TB more so in IPL because hes solo casting and there is no one to call him on his shit. Whenever TB casts, he always puts a disclaimer that this is for more amateur or debutante viewers, which is a sort of double-play: It excuses him from making any mistakes because of his equal low [amateur] ranking in the actual ladder and it allows him to follow with more play-by-play rather than extending to something a bit more in-depth or beyond his scope of [current] knowledge. Whether he intentionally tries to learn the game a bit farther despite his ranking, one couldn't say (I always think optimistically and assume so). IF he says he's working on it, good for him! Yeah, the solo-casting is a poor idea, but then again, duo-casting should be more to compliment one another, not for fact-checking [I know what you really meant, I just wanted my last-line to be witty]. "Indeed." | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:29 Megaliskuu wrote: I think the biggest offense ever was Dapollo casting bw at wcg last year. Nearly ruined FvJ for me .haha dude, dapollo was bad, but the cs commentator dude with him was the real problem. The sheer amount of logical fallacies mixed with funny names for units was literally mind blowing. i recommend everyone should go watch the fvj vods from wcg holy shit it was funny | ||
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theherder2
United States538 Posts
TB has a good excitable casting voice but little game knowledge to back it up. Duo-casting is perfect for him, because he is good for superficial play by play with analysis done by the partner. This is the same as usual sport casting, where there is the play by play (Al Michaels, Bob Costas) announcer and the more experienced analytical partner (Madden, Steve Kerr).. etc. Whenever he settles with a good casting partner I can start listening to him again, but until then I'm going to keep trying to ignore what he says and just focus on the game and tone of voice.. | ||
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halvorg
Norway717 Posts
Picking apart TB's analysis of the game is fucking retarded and redundant, sorry. You can actually filter the caster you would like to hear on IPL's site, a pretty cool feature i might add. PS. grats on the new job. | ||
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Netsky
Australia1155 Posts
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Swede
New Zealand853 Posts
Duo-casting is perfect for him, because he is good for superficial play by play with analysis done by the partner. You still need good game knowledge if you're doing play by play. It's much easier to get excited when you understand the consequences of each move a player makes, and genuine excitement is what makes a great caster. That's why Artosis is so good. He gets excited over the tiniest things, but it makes you get excited too because his excitement is palpable. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Tyree
1508 Posts
Many of us go to school or to work where we are lectured how to do what on a daily basis, i just want to chill and enjoy watching SC2. Personally it is getting pretty tiring watching a tournament then after a game spending 10 whole minutes watching 2 people go through the game as if we really need to recreate the entire match from the first scouting probe to the last unit dying. That is why i enjoy Khaldor, Rotterdam and TB lately, just the cast the bloody games and lets have fun | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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Cirrus
United Kingdom134 Posts
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
For starcraft? There's tons of aspiring commentators. But how many have the education, the broadcasting knowledge, the game knowledge at the level of a coach or even at the level of Artosis. There is very few. To be knowledge about the game it's more important to be good at it more than other sports. Play by Play requires so little game knowledge, and for that reason the other characteristics of a caster shine out more: Enthusiasm, tone of voice, and in general good speech. This is why casters like TB, catspajamas are along these lines. I listen to all commentary and pretty much the most analytical ones are Artosis, Painuser, Chill and day9 so far. Even HDstarcraft has pretty good analysis: For example in the game spades vs EGincontrol. HD said that because incontrols voidray push failed, he was behind, painuser disagreed saying EGincontrol did enough dmg. HD turned out to be right, but to be fair he's a decent masters player. Psy is also a very good caster. Husky probably has better analysis than TB. It makes sense, Husky is a diamond player and TB is like gold level. What can we take from this: Level of Analysis = Level of game skill. However we shouldn't completely discredit a caster just because of skill level. Casting... I wish i could be given a grant to study how starcraft 2 casting differs form other types of casting and what most people would enjoy, what styles is most effective, which things to mention and which things not to mention, the most proper way to do introductions. korean style vs english style, analytical vs play by play, casting is a complex part of the starcraft 2 scene and for now the best we can do is just enjoy what we are given and hope it improves in the future. For the record the best casting duo is probably tastosis: the most professional, prepared, analytical with play by play, excitement. These guys meet together before GSL days to talk about their future cast, something very important. | ||
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
If you know the casters are making mistakes then your game knowledge is obviously good enough that you know what is going on. What's the problem? chill out | ||
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Bengalaas
6 Posts
To get it out of the way, I'm not about personal preference, which often does get folded into the mix. That is as pointless a discussions as debating why certain icecream flavors reign supreme over others, matters of taste. But it happens as it is difficult to seperate those out. I don't mind TB and HD doing their thing on youtube, in fact it probably is a good thing (insert "for the good of all eSport" phrase). But maybe, just maybe once they are hooked viewers want a little bit more. So if it is a premier tournament or league, i feel it shouldn't go overbord to cater to new viewers (read nubs). I assume in professional sports, commentators don't constantly explain every basic thing (something that even annoys me in day9 commentary sometimes / it's not a daily). People watching the IPL on stream or vod most likely don' get there by accident, it ain't youtube, which is a fine place for getting new people in. Wheat is fine by me when paired with someone analytical who provides more insight into the game, but solo? Haven't seen much of it but I guess for the same reason HD in conjunction with Painuser is adequate. Given the solo turns by Wheat, HD and TB (whose casting I couldn't stand even if it had acceptable quality, but that is entirely personal taste), I barely watched IPL for longer than a few minutes. Wouldn't have thought I am demanding that much. TSL Casting is for example in my opinion all around solid (sure a little biased by taste). I much preferred other combinations, but even Wheat and Husky kinda worked, at least I don't remember it as too bad, but its been a while. And I don't care or need to know at what level somebody plays the game, it's a likely predictor of game knowledge, but not a necessity. Even bronze league random players could be great analytical Casters, IF they put in the work, watch a lot,do play, analyse and stay on top of the meta game. They have to know how it works, maybe even how it feels; but they don't need stellar mechanics, split second decision making and the drive to win. Of course all of that comes a lot easier to a pro player, but they need some additional skills to be good commentators aswell. (tl;dr) Should proleagues/big tournaments have casting more targeted at regular viewers, or should it be for "youtube* audiences" for the good of esports (growth)? Is it because of the infancy of the field / the niche market? When do you expect it to change? Oh and I sooo feel you regarding the rocks on Blistering... *not hating on youtube,I enjoy some regular PsY myself (personal taste). Merely a word to sum-up the more accesible sc2 content. | ||
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drag_
England425 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:29 Megaliskuu wrote: I think the biggest offense ever was Dapollo casting bw at wcg last year. Nearly ruined FvJ for me .Oh god yes, that was bad. I find it annoying when casters who know nothing about bw try to talk about sc2 stuff in relation to bw and just get it catastrophically wrong. The main problem I find with SC2 casting is that commentators for big events sometimes aren't doing enough research into whose playing. They often don't know about playing styles, strong and weak match ups, recent results etc. As a result we just end up with really generic comments like "this guy is soooo good. He beat this guy once. And his opponent is also sooo good" and the whole beginning of the match is filled with pointless unspecific speculative comments like "he could do this *insert overly general idea* but we're going to have to wait and see". Wow this turned into a bit of a rant, but it really does annoy me! | ||
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Dali.
New Zealand689 Posts
"Explosions and bullets tearing through the opponent and terran wins that battle convincingly" to "Oh my god, terran executed x strategical maneuvering perfectly, leading to y during the battle, and won convincingly because of it" Understanding the foresight and execution of high level players should the essential core to any cast. Obviously slip ups or mischaracterizations are acceptable, but a caster should be looking to read into a strategy more than simply aggressive or defensive. Personally, if I was being paid money to cast in front of thousands upon thousands of people, I would spend every free minute learning the game first hand. The respect and legitimacy it brings to a cast is invaluable. Some of my favourite moments in casts come when a caster has first hand experience playing against one of the players they're casting and is able to reference past games and is more competent at dissecting their style. Obviously I'm not suggesting every caster be at code S level, but for goodness sake, if you're a figure head in the industry, at least get to masters league. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On April 25 2011 17:59 Kiante wrote: haha dude, dapollo was bad, but the cs commentator dude with him was the real problem. The sheer amount of logical fallacies mixed with funny names for units was literally mind blowing. i recommend everyone should go watch the fvj vods from wcg holy shit it was funny Those MUTES. gg | ||
Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
Look at this Guy Rick Jeanneret He is my Hockey's team Commentary. Hes probably the most entertaining to listen to in any sport. | ||
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