EPTI'm also getting really tired of the whole Jaedong is playing like trash thing that is making the rounds on TL at the moment. It seems like people are just constantly repeating it all over the place and it is causing people to believe it when it isn't true. He's a little below his 2010 form maybe, but he's still by leagues the best Zerg in the world and playing very well. He had great games against Baby and Bogus, he managed a scrappy win against Last after taking serious damage from his bunker rush, and he showed his usual mental strength and will to win in that series against Snow. People seem to be expecting Jaedong to play perfect, machine-like Starcraft, but that was never Jaedong's thing, that's what Flash does. Jaedong has always about winning with what looks like sheer willpower, like he just wants it a little more than his opponent, and that's exactly what he showed against Snow. His only loses this month are to Protoss players, and only those that have very good PvZ records for the month, courtesy of the second PvZ revolution.
Power Rank 01/01/2011 - Page 49
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
I'm also getting really tired of the whole Jaedong is playing like trash thing that is making the rounds on TL at the moment. It seems like people are just constantly repeating it all over the place and it is causing people to believe it when it isn't true. He's a little below his 2010 form maybe, but he's still by leagues the best Zerg in the world and playing very well. He had great games against Baby and Bogus, he managed a scrappy win against Last after taking serious damage from his bunker rush, and he showed his usual mental strength and will to win in that series against Snow. People seem to be expecting Jaedong to play perfect, machine-like Starcraft, but that was never Jaedong's thing, that's what Flash does. Jaedong has always about winning with what looks like sheer willpower, like he just wants it a little more than his opponent, and that's exactly what he showed against Snow. His only loses this month are to Protoss players, and only those that have very good PvZ records for the month, courtesy of the second PvZ revolution. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
If you look at nothing but this month and the win/loss on TLPD and take nothing else in consideration, then you might have a case but we have to look alittle deeper sometimes when things are messy. I'm not saying you are wrong that Bisu could be above Flash, he surely can be but it's not set in stone at this point in time. Bisu made three all kills, but one was vs ACE and it doesn't count as much (yes i said it). Flash made two 3-kills, where there was no 4th opponent, and one of them was vs Bisu's team including a win over fantasy and bisu, and he didn't get to play ace. Flash has tougher opponents overall (my oppinion) than Bisu aswell, much due to him facing bisu and fantasy when bisu was also facing ace while losing to s-class. Ofcourse we can't give credit to Flash for games he didn't play but we cannot really fault him for it either. Fact is; Flash is bonjwa and he had an awesome month. The only thing against him is that last month he lost 3-4 games. Neither of them are in a starleague at the moment. It's a tough call. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5570 Posts
Stork vs Flash: Stork just had a 6-game losing streak, which puts him in a bad light so the obvious reaction is that Flash should be placed better. But Stork is 11-1 in PL this month. If he hadn't been in both leagues it is fair to say that his PL record would be better (more wins, fewer losses AND more games played). His PL record is better than Flash's - so to put Flash ahead of Stork would be to punish Stork for what he has done in the SLs - which in a way would be absurd since his starleague runs are incomparably much better than what Flash has done in the Starleagues this season. Then again losing a bo5 is a bigger thing than losing in the group stages. Basically the judgment depends on how you value the fact that Stork made it far in the leagues. So.... if Stork had crashed out earlier in the leagues he would be ranked higher? Bisu has had a more dominant month all things concidered than both Stork and Flash, but he is down in head-to-head against both of them (massively against Stork): another judgment call for the PR writer, but I would have Bisu as #1. I'm not going to comment on Jaedong now since I'm a Jaedong fan-boy and no one would listen anyway ^^ On January 31 2011 08:31 StylishVODs wrote: [...] there are in fact rational arguements for putting Flash first in the next PR. [...] Fact is; Flash is bonjwa and he had an awesome month. People always call flash a bonjwa either when he is brilliant or when he loses stuff he shouldn't and they want to give him credit for things he has not accomplished. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
TBH, I think it is true that they are your best No. 1 candidates, but I really, really, really, really hate the idea of putting someone at #1 when they didn't have a good Starleague showing. That's just ridiculous. But this season has been ridiculous, so perhaps a ridiculous solution is necessary? Stork was my #1 just a week ago, but getting flattened like that makes it hard to justify. The momentum he had just a week or two ago seems to have dried up. The natural step would be to go for one of the two players who beat him, but both Fantasy and Zero have some consistency issues. And of course there's Jaedong who is producing the results but... looking very vulnerable. Snow was a wake-up call. Granted he played well, but a player who just last month when I looked was under 2000 ELO in PvZ should not be pushing JD to the limit. Hydra for #1! | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Edit: The order is random, I just went through them. Flash Record: 9-1 vs. almost exclusively extremely good opponent's (Fantasy, Leta/Skyhigh TvT, Bisu, Snow TvP, Soulkey, Zero, getting his revenge against Ssak). Additionally, due to the nature of playing against KT-Flash in WL, these opponents very likely came prepared to snipe him while he had no idea what matchup to prepare for. Plus: - Best winrate this month - he is the Bonjwa and, let's be honest, very likely the best Starcraft player in the world. Minus: - did not play in a Single League because of being out already, only played 10 games Stork Record: 16-8 vs. mostly very good opponent's (Fantasy, Bisu, Zero, Hydra, OSL/MSL rounds) (Edit: obviously 16-8 sry) Plus: - Heaviest schedule of all players. Reaching OSL finals and MSL Ro8. - being #1 PR atm - the victories vs. Bisu and Fantasy in WL after the OSL finals showed that he isn't slumping Minus: - the OSL finals and the MSL Ro8 were still extremely devastating, going 0-3 twice is not the best application for #1 in PR Bisu Record: 15-4 vs. one half good opponents (Calm, Kal, Flash, Baby, Shine, 3x Stork) and the other half below average players (M18M, Iris, GGaemo, FBH, Pure, hero) Plus: - His play is exciting, with tons of aggression and high APM. He was second last PR. Minus: - 0-3 vs. Stork, 0-1 vs Flash, his direct competitors, out of MSL Fantasy Record: 13-7 vs. mostly very good opponents (an awesome playing and very prepared Calm, 4x Stork, Sea, Soulkey, Zero, Flash) Plus: - winning an OSL title, that should be worth something Minus: - coming from an abysmal december back into PR - worst winrate of all 4 Jaedong: Record: 12-4 vs. below average opponents. But like with Flash, these opponent's came prepared to snipe vs. Oz's Oz. Plus: - still in MSL - beating Snow, who played insanely well Minus: - didn't play a lot of good opponent's so it is not sure if he is back to old dominance Hydra: Record: 13- 5 vs. mostly below average opponents. Plus: - still in MSL, dominating Calm Minus: - didn't have very good opponents to prove himself which is what he needs to do as a new player, not his fault but still a minus - lost vs. Stork, the only top opponent | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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night terrors
China1284 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
I'd rank them in that order except I'd swap Jaedong for stork. @Elroi, yeah I know that but Flash had a brilliant month this month. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On January 31 2011 10:13 night terrors wrote: TBH stork did nothing spectacular against Bisu. After the mismicro of the latter all he had to do was keep his macro up and roll bisu over. Taste of Bisu's faboy is the best when freshly squeezed! Yeah he did nothing except showing that he has superior micro. | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
1.  Flash. Last year was fantastic; last month was awful; this month was 9-1 and the loss in an epic game against ZerO. Wins over fantasy, Bisu, Bogus, and Snow. With everybody else failing in one way or another - and his one loss not even costing KT anything - Flash seems like the last resource for a "safe" #1.2.  Jaedong. In contrast to Flash, this pick is mostly a big "eff you" to everybody else who screwed up. But I can defend it: OZ is back on track, Jaedong's the MSL favorite. Sure, his ZvP could use a little work, which seems like it hasn't been true since 2008. Otherwise, right on track.3. Fantasy. I don't know what to do with fantasy, but I can't in good conscience put a 3-0 OSL winner lower than #3 even when he lost to the silver medalist the very next day. My conclusion about fantasy is: he's just not a Proleague player. He's the definition of the player who relies on prep time. If he only played Starleagues, he'd have a lot more 4.  Stork. I think Stork is a better player than fantasy. For that matter, I think Stork is a better player than Jaedong. Hell, there are times I can almost convince myself that Stork is a better player than Flash. But the fact is that the Commander faceplanted into a six-game losing streak that cost him an OSL and a shot at the MSL. And I can't excuse that, no matter how much he's dominated the rest of the month.5. Bisu. Part of me thinks I may be being too hard on Bisu as a result of the numerous "OMG Bisu obvs #1" posts. But the rest of me thinks that Bisu hasn't really earned a higher spot. Yes, he beat Shine, Pure, ZerO, and Bogus this month. On the other hand, he lost to Flash (costing SKT a match) and is 0 for 3 against Stork (costing himself a probable MSL final and SKT another match). Sure, the all-kills are nice, but he hasn't beat anybody ranked higher than him, so I think this is where he belongs.6. Hydra. Hydra's had a nice month, and more importantly he's Jaedong's biggest obstacle to another MSL victory. The new 7. Snow. In raw stat terms, Snow's month was thoroughly mediocre. In games-against-Jaedong terms, Snow was #3-5 material. This is a compromise.8, 9, 10. In some order: Bogus, Stats, TurN. That's the order I favor but there's nothing that's particularly noteworthy about any one of them compared to the other two. Bogus is STX's closest thing to an ace, while Stats and TurN are #2 players - but on a good team Bogus would be a #2 too. Meh. | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
Let's see, SkyHigh - Don't make me laugh, he's been terrible for months, barely played any games at all (yeah so his TvT Elo is still high since there's no decay in Elo). Leta - Has also been pretty terrible lately. I doubt anyone would even consider him for CBNC at the moment. Snow - Has actually had a far better month PvZ than PvT. Still a decent win. Bogus - Another good win but Bogus also recently got spanked by Bisu and Jaedong, proving he's one of those players capable of winning against everyone except the S-Class. Fantasy - Main reason many won't consider him for #1 is that his WL performance has been very mediocre. Really - Has been awful lately. SoulKey - Also had a terrible month, looking very shaky in general. Bisu has at least as many wins against good opponents (including a number of strong ZvP players) and is 15-2 in WL. If he were some random upstart like Hydra I might give Flash the benefit of the doubt and rank him higher but we all know that Bisu is capable of playing at the very highest level of Starcraft. The only way of justifying Flash over Bisu would be to go back to the double golds, which takes us back 4-5 months. I don't think the PR has ever looked that far back to rank players. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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night terrors
China1284 Posts
On January 31 2011 10:32 Xiphos wrote: Taste of Bisu's faboy is the best when freshly squeezed! Yeah he did nothing except showing that he has superior micro. No. Did you see the game? In the engagement that decided the game stork had done nothing, Bisu moved forward and let his reaver drop in front of his goons, at that point he could neither pick it up, because the dragoons would target and kill the shuttle and the reaver, nor move it back, because his goons were trapping the reaver. That right there is mismicroing your units, poor judgement, what you will, but certainly not "stork's superior micro". Actually, in the final engagement, Bisu took the two reavers stork had with him with nice scarab shots. He lost because at that point the nat for stork had been running since forever and hi just had been destroyed. Stork could a-move and win. The only thing i could give to stork that game is blocking his ramp with probe+zeal to deny scouting and make Bisu play more conservatively whilst he himself expanding. Even then he was not terribly ahead of Bisu. I've seen plenty of games where Bisu punished the expansion (like the two games before maybe?) Dont try to word the game out as if it was Stork's accomplishment rather than Bisu's incompetence whilst engaging. | ||
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Fishmalk
74 Posts
Fanta gets #2 for taking the gold. It's hard to imagine giving him anything but #1, but his proleague record has been really, really sad. Still, oov and Stork conspiring to give him a gold medal in as dominating fashion as possible is worth quite a bit. If he lasted a bit longer in the other league he would be #1. #3 goes to Flash, for a month of stomping on some of the toughest competition around and dropping a single game to a really good player. I don't like putting him this high with no starleague presence, but the starleaguers are either above him, or played poorly in proleague. Even if Flash all-kills mbc, this is what he deserves. #4 and #5 are a toss-up for Bisu and JD. Beesuit has had a monstrous proleague month, true, but this is in no small part to the rest of SKT failing hard (what happened to best and kwanro?). JD has done much worse in proleague, but making the semi-finals after a very high-level quarterfinals match is worth a fair amount. For #6, I'd toss Hydra a bone. His proleague has been good, and he made semis in the remaining starleague. No one else not ranked above him has both going for them. The remaining spots could go in pretty much any order to bogus, snow, flying, and turn. Their play has all been good, and at times great, while snow also made quarterfinals (not worth much, but it's something). I'd like to throw tyson in somewhere for being the worst player to allkill this season, but against ACE it just doesn't mean a whole lot. | ||
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night terrors
China1284 Posts
On January 31 2011 12:01 Fishmalk wrote: #4 and #5 are a toss-up for Bisu and JD. Beesuit has had a monstrous proleague month, true, but this is in no small part to the rest of SKT failing hard (what happened to best and kwanro?). JD has done much worse in proleague, but making the semi-finals after a very high-level quarterfinals match is worth a fair amount. Yes, because SKT is failing, Bisu should be lower in the PR. Because that makes sense. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
6.Hydra 7.Zero 8.Great 9.Snow 10.Stats lol 1-5is too hard =[ | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
The other side of the coin: Flash #1 can perfectly reasonable, but it's also a cop-out. But: If you're going to knock Flash down for no leagues, then reasonably you have to say Bisu's with him with Stork/fantasy/Hydra/Jaedong above (whether you say Flash 5 Bisu 6 or the other way around doesn't matter much). But Flash definitely and Bisu maybe have looked more untouchable then any of those except maybe Stork, so in this case we're ignoring the "power" of power rank... and if leagues are the litmus test, why are great and ZerO not above Flash/Bisu (realistic answer: they aren't as good). Basically: Flash #1 is the only way I can figure out to make a consistent rank, even though Flash #1 doesn't really make sense. Looking at my rank again, what I might do is take my "consistent" rank with Flash #1, then put Flash where I think his achievements (or lack thereof) "really" put him (probably #3, possibly #4) even though the result looks really, really weird. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
I do not think Stork should get #1 this month sorry but getting 3-0'd in both MSL and OSL (he even didn't' show up for a winners league claiming he was preparing for individual leagues) is pretty bad imo. I dunno the order of how next months should go but honestly Stork should not be #1 he just got obliterated in both against Zero and Fantasy ^^. | ||
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kamizushi
Canada52 Posts
Flash I term of pure number of win.he would deserve the first spot. But as you know he got eliminated from both leagues early. Fantasy has a gold, which is big, but he is a bit inconsistent in proleague. Stork was completely dominating but he just got 3-0ed twice when he should have won (zero is doing good but not great and Fantasy won on maps that were completely protoss favoured). Jeadong is doing fine on the proleague and still hasn't been eliminated from the MSL. Bisu is doing almost as good as Flash on the proleague but he got better result on individual league, even thought he's out now. Basically, these five players could all deserve the first spot depending of how your criteria. | ||
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