EPTPower Rank 01/01/2011 - Page 50
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Ideas
United States8171 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
No matter what, I think 90% of TLnet will be unhappy with the next PR. I don't think it's possible to do it right. Flash - as excellent a month as he had, it is true that most of his opponents have been less than solid lately. Dominance last year shouldn't play a role in his ranking here. How's Flash's hotness right now? That's a little tough. Partly because a lot of the spotlight has been shared with his teammates. Partly because the memory of his faltering out of both leagues is still awfully near. Partly because I think that if his opponents were in peak form, his performance would have blown me out of the water. It didn't. I was impressed, but not that much. Bisu - the more I think about it, the more I think maaaaaaaaaybe Bisu is the hottest player right now. KT would have had a strong WL showing even without Flash. SKT1 without Bisu? Hopeless. 3 all-kills this season, with SKT-1 being unable to win without Bisu carrying them. That said, Bisu is -- YET AGAIN -- unable to get past Stork, who is now 13-9 against Bisu. How hot you consider Bisu really depends on how much influence you place on his 4 losses, particularly the 3 to Stork. I'm leaning towards Bisu #1, Flash #2. Fantasy - possibly my #3. I am happy that Fantasy won OSL. I really am -- Fantasy rated high on my list of players who deserved a Starleague gold on their belt but never got it (Yellow, of course, is #1 in that category). But I have to say that of all the OSL wins that come to mind... Fantasy's momentum going into this was probably the weakest. Squeaking out of his Ro16 group, facing his abysmally-weak-at-ZvT teammate Hyuk in Ro8, playing a joke of a series against Calm in Ro4 (this being Calm of 2011, not 2009 as well...), not in MSL, playing.... inconsistently, to be generous, in WL... yes he pushed Flash hard, yes he rolled Stork in one of the most massive rapefests ever, but the only reason Fantasy can even be considered "hot" right now is that he did it in the OSL finals. Stork - probably my #4. A week ago my #1. My, my, how the mighty may fall. Getting 0-3'd out of one league might have been forgivable considering that Stork made deep runs in both when nobody else did (well, I guess Jaedong - #5 here. Good results but... I'm just not convinced that this is the same Jaedong we're used to seeing. Has the Tyrant really lost his edge? For the second month in a row he is looking surprisingly shaky. Statistically he may appear as strong as ever, but he still has yet to beat a single top player this season. And then... Snow might have played well and JD might have won it, but it's worth noting that JD's ZvP ELO has fallen more than 50 points the past month, largely from that one match. Will JvZ carry him to another MSL gold? JD fans will hope. But I think even they are worried. Zero - #6? Flash did not have the most difficult roster of opponents. Zero did. And while his results have been a little mixed, he's managed to take down S-class opponents in convincing fashion. Zero would be higher if he were more consistent. And maybe he will be higher next month if he can prove that his ZvZ can hang with the best of them. Hydra - #7? This season, Hydra has been posting amazing stats all throughout. Whether or not he's truly S-class, I think it's safe to say that Hydra's results are not a fluke. He's gone from zero to hero frighteningly quickly and continued the legacy of | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
Stork 10-1 (90.91%) (including wins over Bisu, Jaedong, Hydra, Fantasy - i.e. hardly an easier month than Flash!) Flash 9-1 (90.00%) Bisu 15-2 (88.24%) Jaedong 7-2 (77.78%) With so few games played though I still think win percentage is utterly meaningless... | ||
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Ideas
United States8171 Posts
on the other hand, jd/stork/fantasy each look noticeably (and i dont mean "way more", but it is noticeable, however small) shakier than bisu/flash. honestly I think JD's loses are mostly forgivable. losing 2 games in a Bo5 isn't really that bad as long as you actually win the series, and when you consider how incredibly high the skill level was in that series, it's quite forgivable/understandable. JD's lose to violet was completely unacceptable though. his game vs stork left a lot to be desired, but then again it's stork. lots of people complain that he's just looked really shaky even though he's won a lot. but i would have to argue that a win is a win is a win is a win. fantasy won the OSL and RAPED stork in the finals, but he has been just above mediocre outside of the finals. stork was an easy #1 a week ago but crashed hard in MSL/OSL. but then he went and beat bisu/fantasy the next night in WL. so wtf I would have to say that individual leagues still weigh more than proleague, and so despite bisu and flash's sublime WL records, they cant be #1. jaedong/stork/ have just had way more achievements in the last month. gut feeling: jaedong stork bisu flash hydra fantasy zero great snow uh.....bogus? | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
Stork's wins were mostly convincingly better play, but his losses were something bad. Zero and Fantasy read Stork like a book. Basically his losses in MSL and OSL are entirely different from his other play, but he lost where it mattered most, and he lost bad. #3/4, I'm not sure which. Jaedong's losses have pretty much been in part due to his own sloppy play that gets exploited by better opponents. That's something that should be punished hard, even if his wins against Snow were a result of good play. Even a lot of his wins had some sloppiness. #4/5, leaning towards #5. Bisu's wins have been through simply better play, he really hasn't gotten too lucky much, and the only win you could really be unhappy about is his map abuse vs Zero. Most of his wins have been with some well-executed 2 gatespeed-sair(I'll call his build this), or just with superior micro/macro against protoss/terran(his wins against Jangbi and Brave were pretty impressive, won through superior micro power). Each of his losses are a result of a combination of BO loss and doing something that didn't work out to his advantage, and still only against S-class who could carry a BO advantage into a win. He's played quite a few games as well. #1/2, I say #1 because of how valuable he is to his team right now. Flash, he's pretty much won through superior macro power against all his opponents. He got outplayed once against Zero, but that's only 1 game, though he doesn't have that many games. #1/2, probably #2 because we haven't seen so much of him this month. His problems in the SLs seem like enough of a fluke right now. Fantasy made it to the finals on shaky play, and won the OSL with excellent preparation. He's been looking not so great in WL, but it takes quite a bit of effort to take it all the way and win a starleague, 3-0 with excellent play no less. Just for that, #3/4, again not sure. 1. Bisu 2. Flash 3/4. Stork/Fantasy 5. Jaedong | ||
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Ideas
United States8171 Posts
On January 31 2011 15:49 Lightwip wrote: I think that we also have to consider the ways in which each of the players won and lost their games, not just their records. The candidates that really need to be ordered are Stork, JD, Bisu, Flash, Fantasy, obviously. Stork's wins were mostly convincingly better play, but his losses were something bad. Zero and Fantasy read Stork like a book. Basically his losses in MSL and OSL are entirely different from his other play, but he lost where it mattered most, and he lost bad. #3/4, I'm not sure which. Jaedong's losses have pretty much been in part due to his own sloppy play that gets exploited by better opponents. That's something that should be punished hard, even if his wins against Snow were a result of good play. Even a lot of his wins had some sloppiness. #4/5, leaning towards #5. Bisu's wins have been through simply better play, he really hasn't gotten too lucky much, and the only win you could really be unhappy about is his map abuse vs Zero. Most of his wins have been with some well-executed 2 gatespeed-sair(I'll call his build this), or just with superior micro/macro against protoss/terran(his wins against Jangbi and Brave were pretty impressive, won through superior micro power). Each of his losses are a result of a combination of BO loss and doing something that didn't work out to his advantage, and still only against S-class who could carry a BO advantage into a win. He's played quite a few games as well. #1/2, I say #1 because of how valuable he is to his team right now. Flash, he's pretty much won through superior macro power against all his opponents. He got outplayed once against Zero, but that's only 1 game, though he doesn't have that many games. #1/2, probably #2 because we haven't seen so much of him this month. His problems in the SLs seem like enough of a fluke right now. Fantasy made it to the finals on shaky play, and won the OSL with excellent preparation. He's been looking not so great in WL, but it takes quite a bit of effort to take it all the way and win a starleague, 3-0 with excellent play no less. Just for that, #3/4, again not sure. 1. Bisu 2. Flash 3/4. Stork/Fantasy 5. Jaedong I think our 2 posts prove how hard this PR will be. almost completely different 1-5 ordering lol. | ||
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ore0z
Romania161 Posts
On January 31 2011 15:49 Lightwip wrote: Stork's wins were mostly convincingly better play, but his losses were something bad. Zero and Fantasy read Stork like a book. Basically his losses in MSL and OSL are entirely different from his other play, but he lost where it mattered most, and he lost bad. #3/4, I'm not sure which. Bisu's wins have been through simply better play, he really hasn't gotten too lucky much, and the only win you could really be unhappy about is his map abuse vs Zero. Most of his wins have been with some well-executed 2 gatespeed-sair(I'll call his build this), or just with superior micro/macro against protoss/terran(his wins against Jangbi and Brave were pretty impressive, won through superior micro power). Each of his losses are a result of a combination of BO loss and doing something that didn't work out to his advantage, and still only against S-class who could carry a BO advantage into a win. He's played quite a few games as well. #1/2, I say #1 because of how valuable he is to his team right now. I think that's unfair, considering Bisu's lost where it mattered most too, i.e. against stork and getting kicked out of the MSL. You can also argue that Bisu's BO loss were because people predicted his build as well. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On January 31 2011 16:00 ore0z wrote: I think that's unfair, considering Bisu's lost where it mattered most too, i.e. against stork and getting kicked out of the MSL. You can also argue that Bisu's BO loss were because people predicted his build as well. Bisu isn't as predictable as Stork though. He did plenty of different standard builds and usually he just got the short end of the stick. The only time anyone really said that they predicted his build was Brave, when he used the most standard build there is against a weaker opponent to win on micro power. Losing in the Ro16 isn't really where it matters most. Keep in mind Bisu continued to practice for PL when Stork had to prepare for the SLs and skip PL. It's more significant than PL losses, but not as significant as Bo5 losses. Stork making it there is commendable, but dropping out like that is a sign of problems. Stork did have huge BO advantages in both games against Bisu in MSL too. On January 31 2011 16:03 flamewheel wrote: I just need to stop reading the comments you guys make. They're giving me second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth thoughts ~_~ Keep on reading, your job must be very, very hard. And the fact that many posts are contradictory yet all make a valid point must make your job hell. | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On January 31 2011 16:09 Goragoth wrote: I find it funny how people are always criticizing Zergs for sloppy play. I remember when EffOrt was tearing it up and the comments were along the lines of "well he won but his play was very sloppy". I really think some people don't understand how Zerg works. Zerg units are squishy and cheap. You make a lot of them. Many die, often uselessly because you can't micro and entire 200/200 Zerg army (unlike a Protoss one for instance). Any long Zerg macro game will exhibit some sloppiness. It's pretty much inevitable. Well that's just it, Jaedong hasn't been barely winning all his games. He's been winning a good number of them among losses to Hogil, Hiya, Violet, Snow, Stork etc. His play isn't as great as it was a few months earlier. Also, losing a defiler is no less damaging than losing a high templar. Only hydras/lings are so expendable. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 31 2011 16:03 flamewheel wrote: I just need to stop reading the comments you guys make. They're giving me second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth thoughts ~_~ Don't read any of them honestly just write it and no matter what order you do your going to get flack so don't take it too heart. Personally I don't know how I would rate the top 10 without any fanboyism influencing my decisions so good luck hope its up by tomorrow just because I am so curious where Jaedong will be and the reasoning  . | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
Stork also shouldn't drop too much because even though he bombed the last 2 Bo5's in the last few days, he was pretty much the best player for the rest of the month. Fantasy shouldn't be any lower than top 3 imo. True he was inconsistent for most of the month but his series against Stork showed absolutely phenomenal TvP, and he won an OSL. If you are in the finals, it should be expected that you may drop some random PL games. I would do something like 1. Jaedong 2. Stork 3. Fantasy 4. Flash 5. Bisu 6-10. the rest. Anyway have fun with the PR, I really look forward to seeing it (hopefully it will be tomorrow ) | ||
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traced
1739 Posts
On January 31 2011 16:00 ore0z wrote: I think that's unfair, considering Bisu's lost where it mattered most too, i.e. against stork and getting kicked out of the MSL. You can also argue that Bisu's BO loss were because people predicted his build as well. much tougher for pvp | ||
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Fushin
France193 Posts
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traced
1739 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 31 2011 17:37 traced wrote: yeah i can see the argument for putting anyone ahead of anyone in the top 4 except jaedong. his play isn't looking nearly as strong as it could be and his record kinda shows it in comparison to the other 4. and i give stork 100x more credit for going deep in both leagues, including a final, despite the 0-3 losses, over jaedong still being in 1 final 4. if jaedong can show improved play and make/win another msl, then i can obviously see the argument for 1-4 placement but he hasn't done that yet. I'm going to let you know even though Jaedong hasn't been playing as good lately (  ) I still think he's gonna win the MSL its all zvz left and Jaedong's zvz is still JvZ imo  | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
1. Bisu (Multiple all-kills and looking pretty damn close to unbeatable) 2. Flash (Looking near invincible in PL, only loss to a strong Zero) 3. Stork (Looks like he doesn't do well against strong preparation, incluing 6 losses in the individual leagues) 4. Jaedong (Still looking mortal) 5. Fantasy (Shaping up slightly, and showed absolute dominance over the previous PR #1 in the OSL finals) 6. Hydra (Consistency) 7. Bogus (Up-and-coming, he's been a pillar for STX) 8. Snow (also on the rise, gave Jaedong a terrifying run for his money in the individual leagues. Now he needs to stay consistent.) 9. Zero (beaten some strong opposition, but also lost to some weak opposition) 10. Tyson (Although his opponents haven't been stellar, he's been a strong contributor to MBC's success in a very ninja way) CBNC goes to Turn, Baby, Light, and Jaehoon | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Seriously this night will probably make it just harder lol. | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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