EPTIt happens, but it's not nearly as common as some people might think.
Power Rank 01/01/2011 - Page 47
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
It happens, but it's not nearly as common as some people might think. | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On January 30 2011 22:08 Loffeman wrote: 1 Bisu: This is the guy most people talk about even though he hasn't been in the SLs. His record is still really amazing even though he lost against Flash and got destroyed by Stork It's not that Bisu #1 would be a tragedy... but if you want to talk about "not winning when it matters" other than Stork, Bisu's the man. I was high on his all-kill streak and his record, minus the loss to Stork in the MSL, was great - but as SKT's ace, losing to Flash and Stork, both in the process of SKT losing matches, means he's lost when he's faced S-class players this month. One loss to Flash I could dismiss, but eh... Bisu #1 just doesn't seem "right". | ||
swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On January 30 2011 16:13 Malinor wrote: I don't really see how tonights games make the situation worse for Flamewheel. A lot of PR candidates delivered (Bisu, Stork, Snow, Hydra). Zer0 showed that he is exactly what he is, a brilliant-inconsistent-dumbass-genius. And Fantasy showed us what most of us already knew, that he is a deserving OSL-Champion, but in no way #1 material this month. The only thing left to see is how Flash does tomorrow. not being fair to zero here, snow happened to blindly add 3 gateways instead of going stargate and blind countered zero's brilliant cheese | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
On January 30 2011 23:28 swanized wrote: not being fair to snow here, zero happened to 2h slow drop lurker instead of playing standard and lost blind to snow's brilliant game sensenot being fair to zero here, snow happened to blindly add 3 gateways instead of going stargate and blind countered zero's brilliant cheese | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
Who the hell WOULD get #1?! FlaSh lost one game, JD's been wheelin' and dealin'... Kal got booted from the OSL and the MSL and I don't know about his PL... Wow. This is messy. And for once: "I'm glad I'm not on the TL PR crew." Might as well stuff FanTaSy into the mix there but I'm not sure on his PL performance, anyone care to explain that? | ||
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On January 30 2011 23:44 mnesthes wrote: not being fair to snow here, zero happened to 2h slow drop lurker instead of playing standard and lost blind to snow's brilliant game sense I'm not saying snow played badly, he stayed calmed and composed but it's not like zero played like a "brilliant-inconsistent-dumbass-genius" either, the strategy was good but snow happened to blind counter it. | ||
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okum
France5776 Posts
Bisu has more wins, but a large fraction are against mediocre or slumping players (apart from Zero and Kal, Bogus, Calm -- well, Calm is arguably slumping, and maybe 1-2 more players) while Flash had a comparable total count of quality wins, against Fantasy, Bisu, Snow, Leta and Skyhigh (yes, the last two are still formidable opponents in TvT). Both lost games to strong players. Flash's loss to Zero indicated that he may have some weaknesses against strong ZvT players, while Bisu's losses to Flash and Stork show that his PvT and PvP might not be as solid as it should be when things heat up. It's great that Bisu is looking completely solid against lesser players though, and especially that his PvZ still seems unbreakable. You also have to look at the cause of Bisu having more wins: KT's other players have kept stealing Flash's wins (people who call for Fantasy to be #1 should consider his contribution to Bisu's impressive kill count this month XD). Just like last year, Flash didn't even get the chance to all-kill ACE. At the same time, Flash's wrist problems do cast some doubt on whether he'd really be able to keep up when playing more games. I wouldn't have had any doubts last year, but right now I'm not sure. I'm curious what happens in MBC vs KT in a few hours. I think it's unlikely that Flash will be sent out first just to get a chance to all-kill, given the prospect of having to TvT against both Light and Sea. Edit: Actually Stork should be #1. The guy just won his third OSL silver. How is that not a first-class performance? | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On January 30 2011 13:06 lastmotion wrote: yes that seems logical. its also logical to assume that Flash would have greater chance of getting knocked out as he reached RO8 or greater because tougher opponents are found in RO8 than RO16 I'm amazed how much Flash bias is in your post. But make no mistake, I actually agree that Flash may be the greatest player - from a different reasoning though. Flash is Terran, thus he will always be better than the best Zerg player (JD) or the greatest Protoss player Actually yeah I think it's logical. Ofcourse I can't say with 100% certainty that he wouldn't lose, I just find it abit more likely that he'd lose a Bo1 than a Bo5 even if the opponent is stronger. Everything about Flash points to that so it's not like I'm making stuff up. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
I'd say that Bisu's loss to Stork is the only thing that makes putting him at #1 questionable, but you have to remember that Flash didn't even get that far, and he didn't because he lost to 3 mediocres and Kal in the 1st round of games he was in. He went 0-2 against 2 players worse than Stork. Their PL performance is almost identical though. Flash won nearly all of his games, and so did Bisu, both with performances that involve impressive play. But Bisu has gotten more wins throughout the month, with 3 AK's. The single game they played in PL was really close and Bisu only lost because he made a silly mistake, same with vs Stork. I'd say it's comparable to Flash's loss to Zero in relevance. But in the end, Bisu has done more. He certainly has the biggest rise in ELO of any player this month. And doesn't that make you very hot? | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
And honestly I don't think Flash fans would be making arguments for Bisu if the situations were reversed. I wonder why no one is arguing for Jaedong number 1? He's had a decent month and is still in MSL. Something Bisu and Flash cant claim. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On January 31 2011 02:47 Nick_54 wrote: I wonder why no one is arguing for Jaedong number 1? He's had a decent month and is still in MSL. Something Bisu and Flash cant claim. His games have really been not that great, except for that last win against Snow, and his game against Baby. He's been letting his team down since the start of the season. I don't think that is the mark of a PR #1. | ||
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Fushin
France193 Posts
On January 31 2011 02:47 Nick_54 wrote: Bisu deserves number 1. Only losses are to Flash and Stork both elite players. For everyone saying that the Flash vs Skyhigh win was quality he's 1-4 tvt since the new season and got demoted to the B team hes not a good player at all right now, I dont care how he was 6 months ago. And honestly I don't think Flash fans would be making arguments for Bisu if the situations were reversed. I wonder why no one is arguing for Jaedong number 1? He's had a decent month and is still in MSL. Something Bisu and Flash cant claim. Bisu lost to Stork and Flash, and got kicked of msl in ro16 by Stork. Flash only lost to Zero, but no starleague action. Jaedong lost to Violet and Stork, still in msl. Fantasy lost to Flash, Jaehoon, ggaemo, Zero and Stork, won the osl. Stork lost to Horang2, got kicked from msl in ro8 by Zero, lost to Fantasy in osl finals. So, Starleague wise, i would say Fantasy, Stork (still 2nd in osl and ro8 msl), Jaedong (ro4 in msl), Bisu (ro16 msl), and Flash (nothing). In pl we must keep in mind that some players weren't needed because of the SWL format, which lessen the importance of the number of wins, making the losses more relevant. Bisu is impressive BUT while dropping early in the msl, he still lost against Stork and Flash so putting him ahead of them because he demolished lesser players doesn't make much sense i think. Flash and Stork did an equal job, but Flash had more win overall. Jaedong did a similar job to Bisu, but with less wins overall. Fantasy did the worse job of the pack. So in PL i'd say : Flash/Stork/Bisu/Jaedong/Fantasy Now how do we balance that ? 50/50 ? Stork, Fantasy, Flash, Bisu, Jaedong More PL ? Stork, Flash, Fantasy, Bisu, Jaedong More SL ? Fantasy, Stork, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu In any case, stop bashing Stork, he should be in top 3 and probably 1st or 2nd. He had a great month in PL, and a silver in the osl does worth something. | ||
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On January 31 2011 02:49 Lightwip wrote: His games have really been not that great, except for that last win against Snow, and his game against Baby. He's been letting his team down since the start of the season. I don't think that is the mark of a PR #1. I don't think the mark of #1 PR is to not make it past Ro16 in 4 seasons straight. And Jaedong's PL/WL winrate is 75%. It's worse than Bisu's but it is crazy to say he is letting his team down. In particular in WL, where they have lead their teams to defeat an equal amount of times, 2, and done their job as needed every other opportunity they've gotten so far. So, Bisu is obviously doing better in PL/WL, but Jaedong is still doing better for his team than anyone except Flash and Bisu. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Stork is doing ridiculously well in WL, and he actually got to a final as well. | ||
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Monkeyshark
United States406 Posts
On January 30 2011 18:12 ISighZ wrote: He won with the BO because his opponents played exactly the way he wanted them to. It's what you say as superior thinking. That's equivalent to luck isn't it? You are guessing what your opponent is doing. And if the opponent is not doing what you want them to,(The Flash Vs Zero game, if Zero had went for muta first, Flash's first Goliath push would win him the game, but he didn't, result in Flash lost). I didn't say Most of his wins. I'm saying his last 3 games. And I hope you watch the Flash vs Really game. The build Really used was a HARD COUNTER to Flash style. The usual fast expasion with 1 rax or 14 cc or forward rax. Really's first vulture would have rape that marine coming out from the rax and win the game. Take into the ratio of Flash building a sim city to block entrance vs the games he didn't build a sim city, he doesn't block a lot of times. It's usually forward rax expansion. He Blind counter Really. How lucky is that or you can say just game sense. but it's luck. Well did he win that game with Zero? when Zero didn't play the way Flash wanted? His game sense is definitely not bad, he block Zero's drops several times but in a game like BW, just game sense don't win games. His game sense vs Zero was amazing, it was like map hack. You are really discrediting Flash for his wins. Just because his opponent plays bad that you're saying Flash is lucky. I watch all the Flash game AND study it as a Terran player. "The build Really used was a HARD COUNTER TO FLASH style." Bullshit. This is like you saying Flash does the same crap every game and Really can hard counter it, I don't know about you but I've watched all of Flash's game on the TL database and I see him doing different openings the last year. And you're blaming Flash for walling in and go 2port wraiths or else he would have lose? It's not Flash's fault that the game didn't go any longer than it did, it was his opponent's fault and Zero was playing a great game of BW with an advantage but Flash didn't go down right away. I can't believe that Flash is being call on for doing different opening now. Flash has won some tvt games last season where the opponent opening 2 fact armory and academy but he still won, it's not like he can't win if really went the counter to 2 port wraiths. | ||
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Fushin
France193 Posts
Does 0-6 in both SL's mean nothing? Stork got played pretty hard. Even if you include the results from a bit earlier, he's 5-6, and his big strength has been SL's rather than PL throughout most of his month. That's not really that great of a performance. Well it's not great. But Flash and Bisu couldn't even try to match this, since they got kicked before (and in the case of Bisu by Stork). #2 in osl and ro8 in msl >> dropped in both league, regardless of the way Stork lost. You can't use the silver of stork to put him behind Flash and Stork, it's still an impressive achievement. And bisu lost 2-0 to Stork in msl ffs. So, despite Stork losses in SL, in that area he's above all else except Fantasy. You could use your agument to put Fantasy above Stork regardless of PL tough. + Show Spoiler + And to Stork's credit, after his terrible lost saturday he still managed to score the 2 best players on skt1 today, that's pretty badass  | ||
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renzy
Canada781 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
Fantasy needs to move up | ||
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