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On December 12 2010 01:19 Waxangel wrote:
Shine's record is why I think not giving past credit is a good policy for the PRs. Because we can just pencil him in for #2 because you can't argue with pure record and game content over a month. Purely record wise, I think we have to go Fantasy - Shine - Flash - Sea this month. I dunno if JD even breaks top 5 purely record wise for the month.
Isn't this supposed to show who is the better player?
Because I can tell you without a doubt that Shine is not better than JD/Flash. Fantasy may or may not be, but I'm pretty sure Flash is better.
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It depends on who makes the Power Rank.
Personally, its more about month-by-month performances, with past performance as a tie-breaker.
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1.Flash
2.Fantasy
3.Jaedong
4.Kal
5.Shine
6.Bisu
7.ZerO
8.Sea[Shield]
9.Free
10.Stork
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Even if you support purely the last month as the only basis, you still have to look beyond records. I think you can only put Fantasy, Shine, and Sea above Jaedong if you think they are likely to beat him. Has Jaedong's record shaken your faith in his "power"? In time, a less than stellar record will convince people that Jaedong is not a favourite to win against certain players. But I'm telling you right now that's not true. Fantasy and Sea would both be destroyed by Jaedong, and I'm quite sure about that. Even in just this past month, both of them have a certain TvZ blunder. And I think their blunder is larger than Jaedong's ZvT against a teammate. I suppose you could argue that Shine could beat Jaedong, but I'm really not sure.
And don't even try to argue Flash. There is less shame in losing to Light and Kal than losing to Modesty. Fantasy's play this month has solidified him once again as the second best Terran - but not the best. We have to remember that Fantasy's TvZ can be horrible at times, and his game against Modesty cannot be ignored as a possible sign of things to come.
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United States32971 Posts
Going purely on record gets rid of a lot of subjectivity that goes into the "who would win a best of five series right now" method of ranking. Also if we used that method, the rankings would never change -_-;
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On December 12 2010 01:53 Waxangel wrote:
Going purely on record gets rid of a lot of subjectivity that goes into the "who would win a best of five series right now" method of ranking. Also if we used that method, the rankings would never change -_-;
Oh but they do. There are months where I wouldn't favor Jaedong over Fantasy or Bisu in a Bo5. Anyone lower than #2 is subject to change.
And what you do honestly depends on what you think PR is supposed to be. I'd agree with Plexa that it's supposed to be a measure of how good the players are.
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If it's destiny for Flash and Jaedong to win every Bo5 not against each other forever from now on, then yes, things will never change. And in that case, why should they? The only exceptions should be low SPL performance, but both have winning records.
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How boring would a PR based purely on results be? Very, IMO.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Definitely not doing it based off of pure records. Wouldn't be that much fun, now would it?
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United States32971 Posts
Whatever, I just don't want JD in top 5 solely on past credit 
two months detached from being a silver medalist, second place shouldn't have that much job security :o
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On December 12 2010 03:30 Waxangel wrote:Whatever, I just don't want JD in top 5 solely on past credit two months detached from being a silver medalist, second place shouldn't have that much job security :o
JD would've gotten dual golds 2 months ago if the best player of all time had not been around, and it's not like he's doing poorly now. Not at all.
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On December 12 2010 01:53 Waxangel wrote:
Going purely on record gets rid of a lot of subjectivity that goes into the "who would win a best of five series right now" method of ranking. Also if we used that method, the rankings would never change -_-;
But going purely on recent record makes the ranking entirely pointless. If I want to know who has the best record this month, I just go into TLPD and look at recent games (wins/losses), compare ELO ratings to last month, and then maybe do a tiny bit of subjective analysis in trying to figure things like "is player A's 3-0 better than player B's 4-1?" If that's what you want to turn PR into, then there's absolutely no point to even having a PR. You might as well just add a TLPD feature that record a player's ELO at the start of every month so people can do month-to-month comparisons on their own.
I like Shine and I think he's always been underrated, but giving him #2 over Flash or JD would be ludicrous considering the immense ELO gap between them.
From my perspective, Shine could conceivably be placed as high as #4, but no higher. He needs to maintain a good record and establish a few more wins over top players before he can join players in the 2300+ club (which Flash and JD have stayed in for months and Fantasy has been flirting with for months).
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On December 12 2010 04:17 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 03:30 Waxangel wrote:Whatever, I just don't want JD in top 5 solely on past credit two months detached from being a silver medalist, second place shouldn't have that much job security :o JD would've gotten dual golds 2 months ago if the best player of all time had not been around, and it's not like he's doing poorly now. Not at all.
14-5 since his OSL loss. Indeed, not poor at all. Funny how 74% wins is considered a slump these days...
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On December 12 2010 08:04 Mortality wrote:
Shine could conceivably be placed as high as #4, but no higher. He needs to maintain a good record and establish a few more wins over top players before he can join players in the 2300+ club (which Flash and JD have stayed in for months and Fantasy has been flirting with for months).
I agree. And just for the record Flash is in the 2400+ club, alone and has been there for a long time
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This would be so much better if jaedong was #1
i hate flash
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If Shine is number 2, this will be just like JWD's rank where he put ZerO over Jaedong. And we all know how that turned out.
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On December 12 2010 11:27 Glasse wrote:
This would be so much better if jaedong was #1
i hate flash
Reality hurts.
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a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
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On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote:
a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
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On December 12 2010 15:45 POWEROUTAGE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote:
a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra. I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
Hmm, yeah, maybe he should have a low spot on PR.
Also, somehow the last few months have felt like Swarm Season minus Jaedong. What happened there?
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EPT
