Close, but no Cigar And according to Jonvvv this month also known as Lower Rank "The Other PR"
This is going to be quite a long list this month, and some of the players named wouldn't conventionally make it, but we'll have them on here anyway. Let's get started.
BaBy 5-2 in PL is pretty nice, though BaBy didn't qualify for MSL and is now out of the OSL after a tough series against Kal. You're doing better than you were at the tail end of last season, but keep looking for those rainbow socks!
BeSt Man, if you didn't fail for the individual leagues you would be so high up right now. Though you are doing so well in Proleague. BeSt sets an 11-game PvT win against Flash (in the Ace match, no less) and kills Stork and free in PvP... and then scrubs out against Tyson and Orion in the OSL and MSL prelims, respectively. Oh well, more time for you to destroy PL, eh?
Brave Other KHAN rookie keeping the team afloat. 6-1 in Proleague with some very nice wins, but also fails to qualify for either league. Who knows, maybe this is a blessing in disguise for KHAN. Given Brave's recent showing, perhaps he and TurN together can spur KHAN onward to greatness this season.
firebathero I have to admit, I really like it when old players / ACE players do well, and FBH has done well so far since transferring to ACE, with a 3-1 record in Proleague with wins over BeSt, PerfectMan, and Light. Keep it up!
free You're doing well, but you're uninspiring. You've had some good wins, but that loss to Light was just... just... terrible. No other word to describe it. Show us something more in the individual leagues please!
ggaemo Aftet transferring to ACE, ggaemo starts killing. He takes out Sea's lategame mech as part of his 3-game win streak, and that's already more wins than he got on OZ all last season. Though he's 3-4 now and didn't qualify for either league, I'd just like to give minesweeper zerg a little shoutout on the CBNC list.
Mind This former starleague winner makes CBNC this month with a mixed grab bag. While he did beat Skyhigh (ending his 9-game TvT streak) he also straight up lost against the likes of Killer and soO for a 2-3 overall in PL. In OSL, he demolishes hero and then Action but at the same time fails to qualify for MST, losing to MIsO. Who the heck is that?
n.Die_soO While the SKT Zerg monicker still haunts Hyuk and s2, soO has been doing well for himself. He's currently 5-1 in PL with his only loss coming at the hands of God Young Ho, and he manages to qualify for MST but not OSL. Hey, it's still way better than how he was doing last season, and he's been instrumental in helping SKT keep its perfect win record.
PerfectMan A four game winstreak for PerfectMan from the start of the season... Who'd have thought? Didn't qualify for OSL but made MSL, so overall a [comparatively] great month for PerfectMan. Keep it up!
RorO Setting a new ELO peak, RorO briefly overtakes ZerO as the second-highest Zerg on the ELO list, though he's only 4-3 in PL and didn't make OSL after getting 0-2ed by Tempest. Perhaps maybe one day RorO can break out of mediocrity and make it in the big leagues. Perhaps this MST around? One can hope.
Stats 4-3 in PL with some nice wins over GoRush, BaBy, Fantasy, and Sair but gets beaten like a drum by all-inner Shine, Tyrant Jaedong and rookie Brave. He's in both leagues though, so if he produces good results in the individual leagues then he'll get on the PR next time around.
TurN KHAN rookie tears up the Proleague and keeps KHAN alive while Jangbi, Stork, and great are busy flailing and failing. 6-0 is so nice, and TurN has such a good style of play too. He's definitely going to be somebody, but he's kept off the PR since he didn't make either league. Show us some awesome games in PL to make up for it!
I have a rather strange feeling about Jaedong. His record is good and everything, but he seems weakened. I feel Bisu is much more stronger than him. But I guess we will see how that pans out in the SL games and the second round of PL.
Gonna take it as a sign with so many CNBCs that this season's so good that there are so many contenders for PR~ Here's to a great season of BW!
Totally caught this on the refresh with that massive Soulkey name making huge spaces in the PR tab, lol.
JFB at the top, all is right with the world. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next PR! (I know everyone has waited almost 2 months for this, but fair enough it was off season ^^)
Also: typoed d out of "word" on free's CNBC, just a heads up, thanks again for the PR!
On November 12 2010 23:48 IntoTheEmo wrote: Gonna take it as a sign with so many CNBCs that this season's so good that there are so many contenders for PR~ Here's to a great season of BW!
Totally caught this on the refresh with that massive Soulkey name making huge spaces in the PR tab, lol.
JFB at the top, all is right with the world. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next PR! (I know everyone has waited almost 2 months for this, but fair enough it was off season ^^)
Also: typoed d out of "word" on free's CNBC, just a heads up, thanks again for the PR!
Yeah Soulkey is a bit uh intrusive >< If we shortened his name to Neo.G_Bonjwa it would probably fit and also be more accurate.
Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
On November 12 2010 23:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
Soulkey's rise is pretty amazing. Since his all kill in march he has a winrate of almost 66%, with more than half of his losses coming from very high level players.
Very good and agreeable PR overall, and nicely written too.
On November 12 2010 23:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
Different writer ;;
OMG sorry Was so sure it would be wax, did not even read ! Well, I guess you can take that as a compliment then =) Congrats !
I'm disappointed you mentioned my Calm on the 10 spot but not in the Close but no Cigar section. I'd kinda get it, but foregoing him for ggaemo, fbh and n.Die.soo? Really?
I mean, who else can scare their opponent so much that he exits the game before it even starts?
Oh come on, poor Ruby lol
I'm putting a lot of expectation in FBH and TurN. One old player and one new face. Yeah FBH and Turn, show the PL folks the power of experience and youth !
On November 12 2010 23:42 night terrors wrote: I have a rather strange feeling about Jaedong. His record is good and everything, but he seems weakened. I feel Bisu is much more stronger than him.
Your SKT1 sign might have a lot to do with that feeling.
JD lost to what? Storks 3 gate proxy and a 3 hatch before pool build against Lights 2 Port wraith? The rest of his games were kinda one sided.
On November 12 2010 23:42 night terrors wrote: I have a rather strange feeling about Jaedong. His record is good and everything, but he seems weakened. I feel Bisu is much more stronger than him.
Your SKT1 sign might have a lot to do with that feeling.
JD lost to what? Storks 3 gate proxy and a 3 hatch before pool build against Lights 2 Port wraith? The rest of his games were kinda one sided.
Of course, Bisu looked shaky versus shine and that ace game versus Great. Maybe I didnt word it out clearly, compared to the aura that JD gave off a few months ago I feel he seems weakened. Maybe for the same reason Bisu seems stronger now, because a few months ago he was just a wreck.
On November 13 2010 01:43 science_ wrote: Not seeing Light anywhere. . .
A 3-5 proleague record will do that to you when you haven't played any other games. Granted he's faced a tough sched. and beaten everybody he should beat (except arguably fbh), but the win against JD is offset by how badly ZerO trussed him up and stomped on him, imo. I'm sure he'll be back, but this month was not a good one.
On November 12 2010 23:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
Different writer ;;
Is this a permanent switch? You two are both fantastic writers for the BW starleague writeups:D
On November 12 2010 23:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
Different writer ;;
Is this a permanent switch? You two are both fantastic writers for the BW starleague writeups:D
For now I believe so. Wax is busy with other things.
On November 13 2010 02:59 seRapH wrote: yayay PR!
i still don't know how best lost the prelims, but does this basically stop him from getting into PRs until he gets past the next one?
oh, and KIM TAEK SHIN
I wouldn't say so. He just has to perform very well in Proleague, which I'm sure he will do.
It saddens me to see Stats on CNBC but it's justifiable since he didn't just lose his games but get crushed into oblivion. He's still way better than Snow, though, and will prove it this month.
On November 12 2010 23:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
Different writer ;;
Is this a permanent switch? You two are both fantastic writers for the BW starleague writeups:D
For now I believe so. Wax is busy with other things.
I kind of disagree with Soulkey being so high but I guess he's earned it for this month. I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed and hope that Bisu can keep his momentum going to clench a StarLeague...
On November 12 2010 23:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
Different writer ;;
Is this a permanent switch? You two are both fantastic writers for the BW starleague writeups:D
For now I believe so. Wax is busy with other things.
On November 13 2010 02:59 seRapH wrote: yayay PR!
i still don't know how best lost the prelims, but does this basically stop him from getting into PRs until he gets past the next one?
oh, and KIM TAEK SHIN
I wouldn't say so. He just has to perform very well in Proleague, which I'm sure he will do.
On November 12 2010 23:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Much better PR than your first one ! The ranking in itself is debatable of course, but it seems logical, and still more important, your descriptions feel much more lively, enthousiastic, and humourous than last time. Thank you very much, it was a great read !
Different writer ;;
Is this a permanent switch? You two are both fantastic writers for the BW starleague writeups:D
For now I believe so. Wax is busy with other things.
On November 13 2010 02:59 seRapH wrote: yayay PR!
i still don't know how best lost the prelims, but does this basically stop him from getting into PRs until he gets past the next one?
oh, and KIM TAEK SHIN
I wouldn't say so. He just has to perform very well in Proleague, which I'm sure he will do.
On November 13 2010 10:41 shucklesors wrote: The part about Bisu having the slightest spark of chance of climbing over Jaedong.. ughh.. disgust + dibelief.
I don't think it'll happen but with the way he's playing and his history as the best player in the world for like a year you can't count him out.
Pretty good overall, although I think the descriptions could be a little longer. Maybe not, there's not much precedent in the earlier parts of the season to base this on. Also, Neo.G_Soulkey kinda ruins the layout .
I like the writeup, but Kal's dominance over baby wasn't cheesy. Baby tried to cut corners in all his games (very late scans, few turrets), Kal took advantage of it and rolled him. The shuttle play in game 3 was especially awesome, his reavers lived for a whileve even after the Carriers were out.
Also a bit surprised Perfectman didn't make it (for the first and likely last time).. I guess stork/fantasy fans would have been pissed at them getting bumped off for Perfectman.
I am a big fan of Jeadong as a Zerg myself, but seriously, Bisu performed WAY better, and I hate Protoss -.-. I could even say that Bisu's last performances > Flash. (Note: LAST PERFORMANCES).
On November 13 2010 22:33 Pinkcarebear wrote: I am a big fan of Jeadong as a Zerg myself, but seriously, Bisu performed WAY better, and I hate Protoss -.-. I could even say that Bisu's last performances > Flash. (Note: LAST PERFORMANCES).
Which is why he made a *massive* leap from nothing to 3rd :D
Really nice power-rank overall. Liked all the rankings, good justifications and entertaining write-up.
Only things I didn't like was the Bleach references and how long the CNBC was. Felt like a few of them ( ggaemo, Mind, RoRo) could have been left off it. But sounds like this was a one-off thing/shout-out to a few players so not so bad.
Awesome rank. I should have realized your multiple saying "it will be out Friday" had some merit.
I would swap Soulkey and Kal, but you acknowledged that you nearly did that yourself, so I have no complaints about the top 10. I can't help but feel that Sea should be higher than #8, but looking at who is above him leaves me thinking that it would be too hard to move him up.
CNBC turned into a bit of a shout out instead of a true CBNC (which was listed in your #10 Stork description). This isn't too bad, except that it's not really a listing of very close players in CNBC.
The very first PR ever had a "but where are...?" awards section. This is was for big name players that failed and really weren't a contender for #9 or #10 like a CBNC is, but deserve a mentioning of their failure and why it excluded them from the Top 10 or CBNC.
Consider adding your own unique PR flair. Keep CBNC for the closest ~1-5 that you actually considered in the Top 10. Then add your own section for "Shout Outs" or whatever you want to call it. It can include players that you thought did very well that month, but that realistically you could not consider taking #9 or #10. I think ggaemo, FBH, and a few others in your list were never truly considered for top 10. Thus it is not quite fitting to put them in CBNC with players you actually almost put #10 like free or Stats. A new section would alleviate this over saturation.
...
Go Stork! If he pwns his MST group and wins the rest of his proleague games while the players above him don't play up to par, we could see Stork #4 and the BW universe will truly be in balance as it should.
Yeah, take away the Bleach references because a lot of people don't understand them. But other than that, this is very well written. Great job! It brings a tear to my eye knowing that the best players of their respective races are owning up the chart
On November 14 2010 10:57 conroe wrote: Seriously, when snow makes #6 and Best isn't even on the PR at all, I know for a fact now that flamewheel is a big loonie
Overall a good PR. Well written and mostly reasonable choices.
The first three are obvious, even though Flash seems rather like a Fusion of Aizen and Goku who ate a Black Hole devil Fruit than like a ordinary Espada. Bisu with his Beauty-Bankai activated is clearly third, good to see the Trio back.
For 4th and 5th I'd exchange Soulkey and Kal. I don't know what it is with Kal, but he just wins. The only choices that seem off are Snow and Fantasy who should be exchanged. Fantasy plays great and he has shown at the end of last season that he can play on one level with Flash and he delivered in all important PL games. On the other hand Snow is only potential so far and I think Fantasy's successes should be more important than Snow's tendency. Actually I wouldn't even have minded to see Snow CNBC, that would seem appropiate.
I followed the bw scene very sporadically over all those years. Only watching a vod here and there and getting excited, not knowing much whats going on on the whole. Then with the sc2 hype I finaly registered on TL and strangely I feel attracted more and more to bw matches...
It went like this: I read the commandements and the part about the strategy forums (not sure if it is in the commandements or in a different section). There was an example about how a strat guide should be done. Reading this guide (it was a 5hatch hydra guide I think) I got somehow drawn in. There was an actual history about PvZ, with saviour-bisu-jeadong on the spotlight. Wow... I started reading about those players and especially bisu (and his pvz style) got me interested.
Then as soon as I saw bisu again on the powerrank some time ago, I started to watch his vods... and suddenly and strangely I got excited how he beat roro and then jaedong... and then other ppls vods... you get the picture.
I feel like this powerrank is like an anchor for the prof. bw scene. keep it there, keep it up!
As much as I like Soulkey, he shouldn't be up there. While his ZvT is sound, his ZvP consists of turtling on 4 bases with massive sunkens and no hydras, and is quite shaky.
what does flamewheel mean (in flash column) when he said who els can make their opponent leav the game before the countdown or w/e? I dont follow the games, i only watch a few vods on youtube each day
In the game vs Ace, Ruby accidentally esc'd out of the game before the countdown, forfeiting his loss to Flash. Flash won a game without even playing it.
wth. I was expecting the PR to turn in sc2 PR since they were all waiting for the GSL2 finals to be played to determine the #1.
Anyway, I can't believe BW people still put up with Kespa's BS. In the recent GSL2, boxer had a mouse problem and he paused the game. If Kespa was there they'd DQ the emperor. Kyrix was also late to his match because of transportation problems. Kespa would've DQ'ed him too and robbed us of the great series that was Kyrix vs Foxer.
On November 15 2010 04:11 vnlegend wrote: wth. I was expecting the PR to turn in sc2 PR since they were all waiting for the GSL2 finals to be played to determine the #1.
gtfo. we have 3 leagues to base our shit off of, you have 1.
On November 14 2010 10:57 conroe wrote: Seriously, when snow makes #6 and Best isn't even on the PR at all, I know for a fact now that flamewheel is a big loonie
Would have helped if Best made it out of OFFLINES in either league....
On November 15 2010 04:11 vnlegend wrote: wth. I was expecting the PR to turn in sc2 PR since they were all waiting for the GSL2 finals to be played to determine the #1.
gtfo. we have 3 leagues to base our shit off of, you have 1.
Yeah no shit. This also isn't the place to complain about KeSPA (which btw has procedures in place for mouse issues, thanks to which Effort won an OSL). Leave the sc2 stuff out of here please.
There's a difference between a fan and a fanboy. Our realpenguin's image macro of kaboom mvp and fuck yeah zero days are over, since stars no longer need the hype and are legitimate contenders. I'm just being brutally honest. I think zero belongs there, not Soulkey... at least, not yet.
On November 15 2010 12:40 bearbuddy wrote: There's a difference between a fan and a fanboy. Our realpenguin's image macro of kaboom mvp and fuck yeah zero days are over, since stars no longer need the hype and are legitimate contenders. I'm just being brutally honest. I think zero belongs there, not Soulkey... at least, not yet.
Woongjin ALWAYS will need hype...
seriously I do get your point but considering how beastly soulkey has been and that PR is back after 2 months of off-season he belongs there in my opinion
I didn't particularly like the Bleach references (I stopped reading/watching Bleach a long time though), but none the less it's not a bad PR, how could I complain anyway when Bisu is back at number three (F yeah!). I missed the days when there was Flash, JD and Bisu at the top.
On November 14 2010 10:57 conroe wrote: Seriously, when snow makes #6 and Best isn't even on the PR at all, I know for a fact now that flamewheel is a big loonie
Unfortunately Best didn't even make any of the individual leagues
On November 14 2010 10:57 conroe wrote: Seriously, when snow makes #6 and Best isn't even on the PR at all, I know for a fact now that flamewheel is a big loonie
Unfortunately Best didn't even make any of the individual leagues
Well, considering how Best did dismantle Flash, and seeing how badly Snow did last matchup against Flash, its bogglin. Best should be much higher, or Snow just should be lower... but Biased PR is Biased.
On November 14 2010 10:57 conroe wrote: Seriously, when snow makes #6 and Best isn't even on the PR at all, I know for a fact now that flamewheel is a big loonie
Unfortunately Best didn't even make any of the individual leagues
Well, considering how Best did dismantle Flash, and seeing how badly Snow did last matchup against Flash, its bogglin. Best should be much higher, or Snow just should be lower... but Biased PR is Biased.
lol I still don't see how it's biased when best doesn't make it out of offlines in either league? 1 good win vs a top player is nice, but if you can't beat bad players (in Bo3 series no less) you shouldn't be on PR.
On November 14 2010 10:57 conroe wrote: Seriously, when snow makes #6 and Best isn't even on the PR at all, I know for a fact now that flamewheel is a big loonie
Unfortunately Best didn't even make any of the individual leagues
Well, considering how Best did dismantle Flash, and seeing how badly Snow did last matchup against Flash, its bogglin. Best should be much higher, or Snow just should be lower... but Biased PR is Biased.
You can never use the ''Player A beat player B who then proceeded to beat player C, which means that player A is better than player C''-logic only, or else you could come up with some absolutely retarded results. There are so many more variables to consider.
On November 14 2010 10:57 conroe wrote: Seriously, when snow makes #6 and Best isn't even on the PR at all, I know for a fact now that flamewheel is a big loonie
Unfortunately Best didn't even make any of the individual leagues
Well, considering how Best did dismantle Flash, and seeing how badly Snow did last matchup against Flash, its bogglin. Best should be much higher, or Snow just should be lower... but Biased PR is Biased.
You can never use the ''Player A beat player B who then proceeded to beat player C, which means that player A is better than player C''-logic only, or else you could come up with some absolutely retarded results. There are so many more variables to consider.
Yes, Variants like performance in those matchups... If Best would won every game with close call plays or looking like really unsure, then I would not have mentioned it at all. Arguments like But he lost at premiliars to sucky players vs He dominated proleague matchups with record of 8-2 is somewhat close call. Thats also btw: "he lost to A and B so he must be C" argument.
Its all about how to market those matches of players. Looking at the match list, I can't really see any notable wins from Snow(Neo.G_Soulkey is 1-1 so its hard to count as win when you lose him after 4 days, Fantasy was slump badly when he beated him, Great?), but I can deffinetly name few from Best(Stork, Free and Flash).
The few games I've seen from Best were great. He played perfect against Flash, played perfect against free when it mattered (and then started dicking around) and looked a class above Sea despite his loss. If he played that well in his other games he deserves number 4 at least.
Then again, if he played that well there's no way he would have got knocked out of the individual leagues.
I always think it's hard to do a very accurate power rank unless you're in the middle of proleague, MSL, and OSL. There are so many unknowns and questions about how a player will hold up. I think this is a decent try considering the lack of data points aside from proleague and preliminaries.
I thought JD had had a hard time in zvt recently, and now I realized that he has been playing Flash and Light 21 times in a row (if you count only terrans). That's insane. @_@
On November 17 2010 16:56 vishrut wrote: holy shit according to the elo charts, spots 4-7 are all protoss the legend of the fall is starting and only khan tosses are missing
They must get through Flash if they want to win a league though, and well... look at that kid's TvP record. I don't see it happening.
On November 17 2010 04:05 Elroi wrote: I thought JD had had a hard time in zvt recently, and now I realized that he has been playing Flash and Light 21 times in a row (if you count only terrans). That's insane. @_@
rofl O_O that is hilarious. poor jaedong never catches a break.
On November 17 2010 16:56 vishrut wrote: holy shit according to the elo charts, spots 4-7 are all protoss the legend of the fall is starting and only khan tosses are missing
Bisu vs. Jaedong needs to happen in one of the leagues. I want this to be a league final so bad since they are both reaching crazy heights in the domination of each other's races. Would be unbelievably awesome now. Plus the chances of OZ vs. SKT going to an ace match and seeing it there is minimal.
Every time I watch Soulkey I get chills. I think this season is going to be reminiscent of Effort's incredible late 08-09 run. Dare I say Soulkey is overall better than Zero? I think we have a neo-GGplay in the making.
On November 19 2010 04:20 setzer wrote: Every time I watch Soulkey I get chills. I think this season is going to be reminiscent of Effort's incredible late 08-09 run. Dare I say Soulkey is overall better than Zero? I think we have a neo-GGplay in the making.
On November 19 2010 03:11 Fishmalk wrote: Bisu continues to show us that b-teamer bashing is a useful skill to have, but he can't dodge good players forever.
I wouldn't consider Soulkey, Violet, Shine, Calm, or Really b-teamers. Though I do think Bisu's boX is a little shaky atm, considering he hasn't won a single one in a while.
On November 19 2010 03:11 Fishmalk wrote: Bisu continues to show us that b-teamer bashing is a useful skill to have, but he can't dodge good players forever.
He hasn't been crushing B-teamers exactly, but the only threat Bisu's run into in PL is Soulkey, who played an uncharacteristically weak game vs him (take 4 base, build no hydra den...?) He didn't encounter any of the players who would be best against him from each team, whereas JD and Flash already have. Being consistent in PL is great and a big step up from last season Bisu, but neither the quality of his opponents nor the execution of his wins have impressed me so far.
Best wasn't placed because he got beat by scrubs in the prelims of both leagues. As a big fan of DJW, I am disappointed he has only been able to focus and perform solely in PL, but his contribution cannot be understated. Best definitely plays at a higher level when he doesn't have to multi-task practice for individual leagues and proleague.
On November 19 2010 23:48 setzer wrote: Best wasn't placed because he got beat by scrubs in the prelims of both leagues. As a big fan of DJW, I am disappointed he has only been able to focus and perform solely in PL, but his contribution cannot be understated. Best definitely plays at a higher level when he doesn't have to multi-task practice for individual leagues and proleague.
Or maybe because he's laughably incompetent at PvZ. Less than 50% win rate in even a single matchup will not earn you a 1st place title. But, it has happened before (Casy's OSL run), maybe if stars align, BeSt will get a string of PvP And PvTs, dodge A-teamer Zergs and maybe he'll win a league.
On November 19 2010 23:48 setzer wrote: Best wasn't placed because he got beat by scrubs in the prelims of both leagues. As a big fan of DJW, I am disappointed he has only been able to focus and perform solely in PL, but his contribution cannot be understated. Best definitely plays at a higher level when he doesn't have to multi-task practice for individual leagues and proleague.
the maps of the osl are the same as in proleague its not the first time he lost in the preliminaries 2 seasons ago he cried while saying he didnt have the force to wait for next season still .... he beat flash pretty convincingly so ... go best we're with u
On November 19 2010 23:48 setzer wrote: Best wasn't placed because he got beat by scrubs in the prelims of both leagues. As a big fan of DJW, I am disappointed he has only been able to focus and perform solely in PL, but his contribution cannot be understated. Best definitely plays at a higher level when he doesn't have to multi-task practice for individual leagues and proleague.
Or maybe because he's laughably incompetent at PvZ. Less than 50% win rate in even a single matchup will not earn you a 1st place title. But, it has happened before (Casy's OSL run), maybe if stars align, BeSt will get a string of PvP And PvTs, dodge A-teamer Zergs and maybe he'll win a league.
On November 19 2010 04:20 setzer wrote: Every time I watch Soulkey I get chills. I think this season is going to be reminiscent of Effort's incredible late 08-09 run. Dare I say Soulkey is overall better than Zero? I think we have a neo-GGplay in the making.
I thought zero was the neo-ggplay :O
soulkey is the neo-zero
tbh Action looks like neoggplay in terms of DEFILERS
But yeah, in terms of woongjin zergs its soulkey or zero Oo
On November 19 2010 04:20 setzer wrote: Every time I watch Soulkey I get chills. I think this season is going to be reminiscent of Effort's incredible late 08-09 run. Dare I say Soulkey is overall better than Zero? I think we have a neo-GGplay in the making.
I thought zero was the neo-ggplay :O
soulkey is the neo-zero
tbh Action looks like neoggplay in terms of DEFILERS
But yeah, in terms of woongjin zergs its soulkey or zero Oo
yeah in terms of defilers action do look like GGPlay but Soulkey's overall gameplay is much closer to GGPlay's then action's (plus he's on stars :p)
On November 19 2010 04:20 setzer wrote: Every time I watch Soulkey I get chills. I think this season is going to be reminiscent of Effort's incredible late 08-09 run. Dare I say Soulkey is overall better than Zero? I think we have a neo-GGplay in the making.
I thought zero was the neo-ggplay :O
soulkey is the neo-zero
tbh Action looks like neoggplay in terms of DEFILERS
But yeah, in terms of woongjin zergs its soulkey or zero Oo
yeah in terms of defilers action do look like GGPlay but Soulkey's overall gameplay is much closer to GGPlay's then action's (plus he's on stars :p)
...Also, Action isn't good. I realize this is a minor distinction to some people, but hey.
On November 12 2010 23:48 IntoTheEmo wrote: Gonna take it as a sign with so many CNBCs that this season's so good that there are so many contenders for PR~ Here's to a great season of BW!
Totally caught this on the refresh with that massive Soulkey name making huge spaces in the PR tab, lol.
JFB at the top, all is right with the world. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next PR! (I know everyone has waited almost 2 months for this, but fair enough it was off season ^^)
Also: typoed d out of "word" on free's CNBC, just a heads up, thanks again for the PR!
Yeah Soulkey is a bit uh intrusive >< If we shortened his name to Neo.G_Bonjwa it would probably fit and also be more accurate.
Also thanks, fixed the typo.
I'm sorry if this was already addressed in the thread, but why do you keep the clan tag? Jaedong isn't known as n.Die_Jaedong, for instance. Just call him Soulkey.
On November 12 2010 23:48 IntoTheEmo wrote: Gonna take it as a sign with so many CNBCs that this season's so good that there are so many contenders for PR~ Here's to a great season of BW!
Totally caught this on the refresh with that massive Soulkey name making huge spaces in the PR tab, lol.
JFB at the top, all is right with the world. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next PR! (I know everyone has waited almost 2 months for this, but fair enough it was off season ^^)
Also: typoed d out of "word" on free's CNBC, just a heads up, thanks again for the PR!
Yeah Soulkey is a bit uh intrusive >< If we shortened his name to Neo.G_Bonjwa it would probably fit and also be more accurate.
Also thanks, fixed the typo.
I'm sorry if this was already addressed in the thread, but why do you keep the clan tag? Jaedong isn't known as n.Die_Jaedong, for instance. Just call him Soulkey.
Well to be nitpicky the Terran SoulKey is still relatively known... for SK Terran. But really, I choose from a drop-down list and it's listed there with n.Die_Soulkey so that's why I choose.
On November 12 2010 23:48 IntoTheEmo wrote: Gonna take it as a sign with so many CNBCs that this season's so good that there are so many contenders for PR~ Here's to a great season of BW!
Totally caught this on the refresh with that massive Soulkey name making huge spaces in the PR tab, lol.
JFB at the top, all is right with the world. Keep up the good work and I look forward to the next PR! (I know everyone has waited almost 2 months for this, but fair enough it was off season ^^)
Also: typoed d out of "word" on free's CNBC, just a heads up, thanks again for the PR!
Yeah Soulkey is a bit uh intrusive >< If we shortened his name to Neo.G_Bonjwa it would probably fit and also be more accurate.
Also thanks, fixed the typo.
I'm sorry if this was already addressed in the thread, but why do you keep the clan tag? Jaedong isn't known as n.Die_Jaedong, for instance. Just call him Soulkey.
While we're at it let's call yarnc "yellow" and justin "casy"
On November 17 2010 04:05 Elroi wrote: I thought JD had had a hard time in zvt recently, and now I realized that he has been playing Flash and Light 21 times in a row (if you count only terrans). That's insane. @_@
On November 17 2010 04:05 Elroi wrote: I thought JD had had a hard time in zvt recently, and now I realized that he has been playing Flash and Light 21 times in a row (if you count only terrans). That's insane. @_@
i just love this moths power rank. all my 3 fav players in top 3, and in the right order been a flash fan ever since first game i saw of him in gom star invitational. and i gotta say being a flash fan is a good thing hehe
On November 19 2010 23:48 setzer wrote: Best wasn't placed because he got beat by scrubs in the prelims of both leagues. As a big fan of DJW, I am disappointed he has only been able to focus and perform solely in PL, but his contribution cannot be understated. Best definitely plays at a higher level when he doesn't have to multi-task practice for individual leagues and proleague.
Or maybe because he's laughably incompetent at PvZ. Less than 50% win rate in even a single matchup will not earn you a 1st place title. But, it has happened before (Casy's OSL run), maybe if stars align, BeSt will get a string of PvP And PvTs, dodge A-teamer Zergs and maybe he'll win a league.
It's happened more than once before that a player won a SL with subpar ability in a match-up. Still, the key is winning when it counts. Casy beat Kingdom and Reach in order to qualify for his first OSL and he never would have won Shinhan-1 OSL had he not beaten Rainbow in the very last round of wildcard rounds. Casy went from the brink of elimination to taking home the title -- largely thanks to the massive Z > P maps that season that prevented Protoss from advancing, true.
The point I'm making is that when Casy was consistently making deep OSL runs, he was capable of winning enough TvP to matter. He wasn't good in that match-up by any stretch, but he was able to do the minimum he needed to carry him.
Best's OSL silver came from pulling a clutch win over Luxury. Back then, Best had PvZ that was definitely not S-class, but at least strong enough to carry him over good players (including Kwanro and Effort). It's been a full year now since Best has beaten a Zerg in an individual league. That just doesn't cut it.
On November 27 2010 01:47 iamho wrote: when is roro ever going to make the power rank.. hes the worlds #2 zerg by elo and his games have looked really solid
His hitherto poor individual league showings have played a large role in keeping him off.
On November 27 2010 01:47 iamho wrote: when is roro ever going to make the power rank.. hes the worlds #2 zerg by elo and his games have looked really solid
His hitherto poor individual league showings have played a large role in keeping him off.
also zero is much better even though he has a lower elo
sad ro36 for stars fans, at least there's still free and MSL
On November 27 2010 01:47 iamho wrote: when is roro ever going to make the power rank.. hes the worlds #2 zerg by elo and his games have looked really solid
His hitherto poor individual league showings have played a large role in keeping him off.
also zero is much better even though he has a lower elo
sad ro36 for stars fans, at least there's still free and MSL
Free in OSL too, he was in semis. Maybe he'll stop being a free pass to the finals for S class this time around.
Boxer is a player. Look him up on Liquipedia if you want. BoX is a series of games.They are unrelated. Bisu needs to stop underestimating his opponents. + Show Spoiler +
On November 27 2010 12:18 Lightwip wrote: Boxer is a player. Look him up on Liquipedia if you want. BoX is a series of games.They are unrelated. Bisu needs to stop underestimating his opponents. + Show Spoiler +
And why would you all-in an inferior player?
I think he asked if Boxer's ID was inspired from the term BoX
On November 27 2010 12:18 Lightwip wrote: Boxer is a player. Look him up on Liquipedia if you want. BoX is a series of games.They are unrelated. Bisu needs to stop underestimating his opponents. + Show Spoiler +
And why would you all-in an inferior player?
I think he asked if Boxer's ID was inspired from the term BoX
If so, no it's not. The full name is SlayerS_Boxer and it wasn't inspired by the term BoX.
From the few ZvTs I've seen Shine play, he seems to be doing alright in his weakest matchup. Not great, but heeeeaps better than the 'oh god what are you doing' that we've seen from him before.
On November 27 2010 20:25 flamewheel wrote: I just realized HoGiL is ELO peaking o.0
RorO too. Shine as well. Hydra too. soO peaked as well recently (but lost it now)...
Whoa wat?
Also: for transparency's sake, the next PR will probably be coming out mid-December, after I finish finals.
Swarm season 2.0
Except the fact that Z is the only race with >50% in two match ups so far in PL.
Z is 23-31 against Terran, 29-27 against P, 52-58 overall. So only one of the MUs over 50% (and just barely). Some zergs are doing pretty well, but overall about as usual.
On November 27 2010 12:18 Lightwip wrote: Boxer is a player. Look him up on Liquipedia if you want. BoX is a series of games.They are unrelated. Bisu needs to stop underestimating his opponents. + Show Spoiler +
Man, Flash has been looking completely unbeatable recently. I just rewatched Flash vs Calm, and it doesn't matter if you're in his natural with lurkers before he has even started any structure that could give him any sort of detection, he wins anyway. XD He's so much fun to watch right now.
Why can't your power rank be as gosu as this, flamewheel??
THIS LINK IS EPIC!
did You notice that there simply is no flash in PR? Who needs Flash in PR? It's so obvious since like year :D
If I were to make PR i would put Zero and Fantasy in one of months they play like shit #9th and #10th and wrote on both: don't even try to argue these two.
putting soul & snow together like zero & free wouldn't be so bad idea either
Now when we know, that if Jd was allowed to play ace matches he would loose them like flash did.
But Flash will now start winning ace matches no matter what.
He is versus zerg conjurer, and versus protoss armourer and versus terran chessmaster.
What are you talking about? There are a million ways of showing why flash is a good player. Ace games is not one of them. Plus your trolling about JD is uncalled for imo.
Now when we know, that if Jd was allowed to play ace matches he would loose them like flash did.
But Flash will now start winning ace matches no matter what.
He is versus zerg conjurer, and versus protoss armourer and versus terran chessmaster.
What are you talking about? There are a million ways of showing why flash is a good player. Ace games is not one of them. Plus your trolling about JD is uncalled for imo.
Ace games are THE BEST way of showing why flash is the best player, especially when he looses them, people who won with Flash are not random horses.
And I trolled about jaedong because I don't like his 'Flash is younger' and 'I won't 4pool because of fans' excuse. He is zerg god damn it, time of BoX'es is closer every day, he should stop whining, and start stopping godterran.
And this is what I'd like to see on #1 place PR this month:
On November 06 2010 03:21 Hinanawi wrote: Flash's first OSL win back in Bacchus 2008 was what set everyone crazy about Flash (myself included), thinking he would turn on bonjwa mode immediately and just dominate everything. Unfortunately, what actually ended up happening was that although he was still the best Terran player, he just couldn't win the games that really mattered, even though his overall winrate was still crazy and up there with Jaedong/Bisu.
Then October of 2009 happened. Flash decided he was done with losing TvZ, and his razor-edge unorthodox timing M&M early aggression threw Zergs everywhere off-balance. Other Terrans tried to copy it but couldn't without Flash's amazing game sense and control, Zergs tried to practice against it but couldn't, because their practice partners can't pull it off.
Around the same time, Flash also stopped losing TvTs and started his 22-game TvT win streak. Flash began to be widely acknowledged by Jan 2010 as basically unbeatable TvZ and TvT, but his TvP remained suspect. It was really painful seeing him lose important games to Protoss players who would just out-expand and run him over with arbiters or templar.
The last piece of the puzzle fell into place a little bit later, when Flash decided that being invincible in 2 matchups wasn't good enough and that he was going to stop losing to Protoss as well. He just started crushing Ps before they could even get arbiters, with amazing timing pushes that forced them to stop playing greedy and start fearing early aggression. Teams would throw their best Protoss at him and he would just snap their necks before the 10 minute mark.
Of course since then he's hit some bumps along the road and come back down to earth a little, but that's basically the story of it.
Now when we know, that if Jd was allowed to play ace matches he would loose them like flash did.
But Flash will now start winning ace matches no matter what.
He is versus zerg conjurer, and versus protoss armourer and versus terran chessmaster.
What are you talking about? There are a million ways of showing why flash is a good player. Ace games is not one of them. Plus your trolling about JD is uncalled for imo.
Ace games are THE BEST way of showing why flash is the best player, especially when he looses them, people who won with Flash are not random horses.
And I trolled about jaedong because I don't like his 'Flash is younger' and 'I won't 4pool because of fans' excuse. He is zerg god damn it, time of BoX'es is closer every day, he should stop whining, and start stopping godterran.
And this is what I'd like to see on #1 place PR this month:
On November 06 2010 03:21 Hinanawi wrote: Flash's first OSL win back in Bacchus 2008 was what set everyone crazy about Flash (myself included), thinking he would turn on bonjwa mode immediately and just dominate everything. Unfortunately, what actually ended up happening was that although he was still the best Terran player, he just couldn't win the games that really mattered, even though his overall winrate was still crazy and up there with Jaedong/Bisu.
Then October of 2009 happened. Flash decided he was done with losing TvZ, and his razor-edge unorthodox timing M&M early aggression threw Zergs everywhere off-balance. Other Terrans tried to copy it but couldn't without Flash's amazing game sense and control, Zergs tried to practice against it but couldn't, because their practice partners can't pull it off.
Around the same time, Flash also stopped losing TvTs and started his 22-game TvT win streak. Flash began to be widely acknowledged by Jan 2010 as basically unbeatable TvZ and TvT, but his TvP remained suspect. It was really painful seeing him lose important games to Protoss players who would just out-expand and run him over with arbiters or templar.
The last piece of the puzzle fell into place a little bit later, when Flash decided that being invincible in 2 matchups wasn't good enough and that he was going to stop losing to Protoss as well. He just started crushing Ps before they could even get arbiters, with amazing timing pushes that forced them to stop playing greedy and start fearing early aggression. Teams would throw their best Protoss at him and he would just snap their necks before the 10 minute mark.
Of course since then he's hit some bumps along the road and come back down to earth a little, but that's basically the story of it.
I dont't understand what you are trying to say. How is Flash losing most of his ace games a good indicator of his superiority? (No, I'm not saying that he isn't the best player.) And when has Jaedong ever said such things?
On November 27 2010 20:25 flamewheel wrote: Also: for transparency's sake, the next PR will probably be coming out mid-December, after I finish finals.
Now when we know, that if Jd was allowed to play ace matches he would loose them like flash did.
But Flash will now start winning ace matches no matter what.
He is versus zerg conjurer, and versus protoss armourer and versus terran chessmaster.
What are you talking about? There are a million ways of showing why flash is a good player. Ace games is not one of them. Plus your trolling about JD is uncalled for imo.
Ace games are THE BEST way of showing why flash is the best player, especially when he looses them, people who won with Flash are not random horses.
And I trolled about jaedong because I don't like his 'Flash is younger' and 'I won't 4pool because of fans' excuse. He is zerg god damn it, time of BoX'es is closer every day, he should stop whining, and start stopping godterran.
And this is what I'd like to see on #1 place PR this month:
On November 06 2010 03:21 Hinanawi wrote: Flash's first OSL win back in Bacchus 2008 was what set everyone crazy about Flash (myself included), thinking he would turn on bonjwa mode immediately and just dominate everything. Unfortunately, what actually ended up happening was that although he was still the best Terran player, he just couldn't win the games that really mattered, even though his overall winrate was still crazy and up there with Jaedong/Bisu.
Then October of 2009 happened. Flash decided he was done with losing TvZ, and his razor-edge unorthodox timing M&M early aggression threw Zergs everywhere off-balance. Other Terrans tried to copy it but couldn't without Flash's amazing game sense and control, Zergs tried to practice against it but couldn't, because their practice partners can't pull it off.
Around the same time, Flash also stopped losing TvTs and started his 22-game TvT win streak. Flash began to be widely acknowledged by Jan 2010 as basically unbeatable TvZ and TvT, but his TvP remained suspect. It was really painful seeing him lose important games to Protoss players who would just out-expand and run him over with arbiters or templar.
The last piece of the puzzle fell into place a little bit later, when Flash decided that being invincible in 2 matchups wasn't good enough and that he was going to stop losing to Protoss as well. He just started crushing Ps before they could even get arbiters, with amazing timing pushes that forced them to stop playing greedy and start fearing early aggression. Teams would throw their best Protoss at him and he would just snap their necks before the 10 minute mark.
Of course since then he's hit some bumps along the road and come back down to earth a little, but that's basically the story of it.
I dont't understand what you are trying to say. How is Flash losing most of his ace games a good indicator of his superiority? (No, I'm not saying that he isn't the best player.) And when has Jaedong ever said such things?
These games shows how much is needed to be done, how many mistakes from godterran and his game control it requires to take him down.
On December 06 2010 11:17 dani_caliKorea wrote: I wonder how high Shine will be. Hes on a beast streak. I'm guessing Kal, Free for #4 and 5?
Free's problem is even though he's doing quite well, he hasn't beaten any of his "tougher" opponents, such as Sea, Light, and BeSt. His wins come mostly from players that are either mediocre or not doing so well, and HiyA, HoGiL, Reality, Cuteangel, Perfectman, Tempest, Hydra (who he then lost the subsequent Ace match to), Grape, Mind, and ggaemo all fit the category. Yes, racking up a lot of wins is impressive, but it's not going to be enough to get Free a rank as high as 5. We'll have to see how he compares to everybody else to see if he even really makes it onto PR.
On December 06 2010 11:17 dani_caliKorea wrote: I wonder how high Shine will be. Hes on a beast streak. I'm guessing Kal, Free for #4 and 5?
Free's problem is even though he's doing quite well, he hasn't beaten any of his "tougher" opponents, such as Sea, Light, and BeSt. His wins come mostly from players that are either mediocre or not doing so well, and HiyA, HoGiL, Reality, Cuteangel, Perfectman, Tempest, Hydra (who he then lost the subsequent Ace match to), Grape, Mind, and ggaemo all fit the category. Yes, racking up a lot of wins is impressive, but it's not going to be enough to get Free a rank as high as 5. We'll have to see how he compares to everybody else to see if he even really makes it onto PR.
Same with Shine.
Are you saying Shine's 2:0 of Bisu is not beating a "tougher" opponent?
On December 07 2010 06:22 Hinanawi wrote: Let's hope he gets to play a Zerg against MBC tonight.
And loses, yes, I'm completely with you there!
For Flash to lose to an MBC Zerg.
1) HyuN (5-6, 0-2 vs Terran) rediscovers whatever let him beat Flash in ace last year. 2) Saint pulls a stunner because he's Saint. 3) First day of play for some unknown rookie phenom. 4) 6 pool. 5) Sea off-races.
On December 07 2010 06:22 Hinanawi wrote: Let's hope he gets to play a Zerg against MBC tonight.
And loses, yes, I'm completely with you there!
For Flash to lose to an MBC Zerg.
1) HyuN (5-6, 0-2 vs Terran) rediscovers whatever let him beat Flash in ace last year. 2) Saint pulls a stunner because he's Saint. 3) First day of play for some unknown rookie phenom. 4) 6 pool. 5) Sea off-races.
6 pool won't even scratch our little godterran. Hyun changed the way Flash plays his vZ a little bit, he would need a miracle to pull something similar again. Sea is 0-6 vs Flash and it is hard to see it changing soon O.o
On December 07 2010 13:49 DracoVolantus wrote: 6 pool won't even scratch our little godterran. Hyun changed the way Flash plays his vZ a little bit, he would need a miracle to pull something similar again. Sea is 0-6 vs Flash and it is hard to see it changing soon O.o
Hyun didn't change anything. Flash forgot one turret on a map where, if you forget that turret in that spot, you lose to 2hatch muta harass. Just kind of happened, and Hyun was slightly competent enough to not lose to the 2 groups of marines Flash pumped out.
Fantasy deserves a high rank. Since May of this year he's been averaging about 70% wins, is now on a 10 win streak and in both leagues. Would be nice to see him play some stronger competition, but he did lots of that last season and held his own okay.
On December 08 2010 10:31 matjlav wrote: any reason why we don't have a December PR yet? :<
Because this one didn't come out till the 15th last month. And finals, that too:
On November 27 2010 20:25 flamewheel wrote: Also: for transparency's sake, the next PR will probably be coming out mid-December, after I finish finals.
I can see it now in a couple months... Flash and JD drop out of the Ro16 and Ro32 of the OSL/MSL and Stork wins both leagues and fulfills his rightful place as #1 in the world.
On December 08 2010 11:07 Crisium wrote: I can see it now in a couple months... Flash and JD drop out of the Ro16 and Ro32 of the OSL/MSL and Stork wins both leagues and fulfills his rightful place as #1 in the world.
Yes, please.
Except I'd rather Stork win the finals over Flash and Jaedong respectively.
I like this quote from sea: "Majority of the teams, including us, heavily commit to vT practice when facing KT. That's how much of a fearsome being Flash is, and it also means that you can gain that much more attention and fame by simply defeating him."
Stork after defeating mind: It was just a match, my win is not something worth being very happy about, because a Protoss who can beat Flash emerged. I dont think I can be very happy.
The game versus flash was a close call and Modesty didnt play bad in his match against Fantasy. Its not as simple as you're putting it, "strongest player" and "weakest" player.
On December 08 2010 18:13 JayZz wrote: when will there be a SC2 power rank?
Why would there be? There is only one major tournament to base things out of and the game is so new that the best players could be worse then 30 people in a month.
It took 3 years and some between the creation of TL and the first PR. x)
On December 08 2010 18:13 JayZz wrote: when will there be a SC2 power rank?
For 1 tournament? you may as well just rank the winner at #1, and runners up in their respective spots to 10. Most players don't play but a few opponents to be evaluated against. There is no proleague where players appear once or twice a week on top of individual leagues. How often would you see the #1 slot defend his crown? for the most part the GSL is too random and varied with its player base and monthly performances.
I remember final I didn't actually watch, I was so mad – Jangbi vs Luxury instead of Zero vs Stork. This WAS upset. Kal defeating flash on Aztec is not. Flash just has to show he's worth godterran title in upcoming matches. Same goes to fantasy, map he played vs modesty was not really well balanced either.
fantasy should get #2, he is red hot atm, no question about JD's skill but he is kind of in sleep mode, cant really judge his skill without seeing how he will fare in the individual leagues. Imo Top 5 is smth like
1. Flash 2. fantasy 3. Jaedong 4. Kal 5. Bisu or Shine
On December 10 2010 06:29 disciple wrote: fantasy should get #2, he is red hot atm, no question about JD's skill but he is kind of in sleep mode, cant really judge his skill without seeing how he will fare in the individual leagues. Imo Top 5 is smth like
1. Flash 2. fantasy 3. Jaedong 4. Kal 5. Bisu or Shine
I think JD should still be ahead of fantasy, but I guess we will get to see how well he does in OSL before the next PR anyway.
Sorry Bisu fans, but we have to admit that he should not be above dual league players (except Hogil, of course). Yes he is a Proleague beast, but SKT1 also has Fantasy so Bisu's status of MVP is diminished a bit. 6 through 8 could go any way, and #10 could be any number of players still in one individual league and having good SPL performance.
Kal for #3, easy. Fanta has a better record because he has been bashing b-teamers with the exceptions of Baby, whom Kal also beat, and soulkey, who beat fantasy. Fantas only real achievement over Kal is beating Zero, while Kal took down beesuit and Flash. No contest.
Seriously though, 12 game winning streak including wins vs 3 players currently on the PR (a 2-0 in a Bo3 vs #3 as a matter of fact), he's in both leagues (and undeafeated in both as well). It really doesn't matter than his style is... well, special. He is kicking ass for real.
On December 10 2010 21:12 Holgerius wrote: Flash has a new contender for the #1 spot.
Shine!!!
XD
Seriously though, 12 game winning streak including wins vs 3 players currently on the PR (a 2-0 in a Bo3 vs #3 as a matter of fact), he's in both leagues (and undeafeated in both as well). It really doesn't matter than his style is... well, special. He is kicking ass for real.
I'm very much going to agree with you. I seriously want people to stop saying Shine sucks.
On December 10 2010 22:02 flamewheel wrote: I'm very much going to agree with you. I seriously want people to stop saying Shine sucks.
I don't think that people really think that, it's more that many people see his style of play as somewhat all-in, and he keeps beating the guy with one of the more vociferous groups of fans here.
But seriously, look at his quality of opponent for a minute. Before today, who's he beaten that's any good other than Bisu? Everyone else he's beaten in his win streak is either slumping themselves, downright terrible or can't play vZ that well at all.
I think something like 1. Flash - nothing important enough to drop him off. 2/3 Jaedong/Fantasy - Fantasy has been looking great, while Jaedong has been looking kinda vulnerable. If Jaedong loses his next game and Fantasy wins, they should be swapped. 4.Kal - Doing well against good players, #4 ELO 5. Bisu - Tied with Kal in ELO points, and hasn't really lost much except that series against Shine. I think game 2 could be map imbalance though. 6. Shine - I feel like he belongs higher, but he goes under Bisu because Bisu, while only in 1 league, has past achievements backing the fact that he's good, but Shine does not. Also, Bisu has been more consistent for a longer time. 7. Light - Don't really know what to put here, just players I think did good. 8. Sea -^ 9. Neo.G_Soulkey-^ 10. free- really kinda dropped off from #1 protoss with uninspiring play and caused woongjin to suck.
Shine's record is why I think not giving past credit is a good policy for the PRs. Because we can just pencil him in for #2 because you can't argue with pure record and game content over a month. Purely record wise, I think we have to go Fantasy - Shine - Flash - Sea this month. I dunno if JD even breaks top 5 purely record wise for the month.
On December 12 2010 01:19 Waxangel wrote: Shine's record is why I think not giving past credit is a good policy for the PRs. Because we can just pencil him in for #2 because you can't argue with pure record and game content over a month. Purely record wise, I think we have to go Fantasy - Shine - Flash - Sea this month. I dunno if JD even breaks top 5 purely record wise for the month.
Isn't this supposed to show who is the better player? Because I can tell you without a doubt that Shine is not better than JD/Flash. Fantasy may or may not be, but I'm pretty sure Flash is better.
Even if you support purely the last month as the only basis, you still have to look beyond records. I think you can only put Fantasy, Shine, and Sea above Jaedong if you think they are likely to beat him. Has Jaedong's record shaken your faith in his "power"? In time, a less than stellar record will convince people that Jaedong is not a favourite to win against certain players. But I'm telling you right now that's not true. Fantasy and Sea would both be destroyed by Jaedong, and I'm quite sure about that. Even in just this past month, both of them have a certain TvZ blunder. And I think their blunder is larger than Jaedong's ZvT against a teammate. I suppose you could argue that Shine could beat Jaedong, but I'm really not sure.
And don't even try to argue Flash. There is less shame in losing to Light and Kal than losing to Modesty. Fantasy's play this month has solidified him once again as the second best Terran - but not the best. We have to remember that Fantasy's TvZ can be horrible at times, and his game against Modesty cannot be ignored as a possible sign of things to come.
Going purely on record gets rid of a lot of subjectivity that goes into the "who would win a best of five series right now" method of ranking. Also if we used that method, the rankings would never change -_-;
On December 12 2010 01:53 Waxangel wrote: Going purely on record gets rid of a lot of subjectivity that goes into the "who would win a best of five series right now" method of ranking. Also if we used that method, the rankings would never change -_-;
Oh but they do. There are months where I wouldn't favor Jaedong over Fantasy or Bisu in a Bo5. Anyone lower than #2 is subject to change. And what you do honestly depends on what you think PR is supposed to be. I'd agree with Plexa that it's supposed to be a measure of how good the players are.
If it's destiny for Flash and Jaedong to win every Bo5 not against each other forever from now on, then yes, things will never change. And in that case, why should they? The only exceptions should be low SPL performance, but both have winning records.
On December 12 2010 01:53 Waxangel wrote: Going purely on record gets rid of a lot of subjectivity that goes into the "who would win a best of five series right now" method of ranking. Also if we used that method, the rankings would never change -_-;
But going purely on recent record makes the ranking entirely pointless. If I want to know who has the best record this month, I just go into TLPD and look at recent games (wins/losses), compare ELO ratings to last month, and then maybe do a tiny bit of subjective analysis in trying to figure things like "is player A's 3-0 better than player B's 4-1?" If that's what you want to turn PR into, then there's absolutely no point to even having a PR. You might as well just add a TLPD feature that record a player's ELO at the start of every month so people can do month-to-month comparisons on their own.
I like Shine and I think he's always been underrated, but giving him #2 over Flash or JD would be ludicrous considering the immense ELO gap between them.
From my perspective, Shine could conceivably be placed as high as #4, but no higher. He needs to maintain a good record and establish a few more wins over top players before he can join players in the 2300+ club (which Flash and JD have stayed in for months and Fantasy has been flirting with for months).
On December 12 2010 08:04 Mortality wrote: Shine could conceivably be placed as high as #4, but no higher. He needs to maintain a good record and establish a few more wins over top players before he can join players in the 2300+ club (which Flash and JD have stayed in for months and Fantasy has been flirting with for months).
I agree. And just for the record Flash is in the 2400+ club, alone and has been there for a long time
On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote: a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote: a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
Hmm, yeah, maybe he should have a low spot on PR. Also, somehow the last few months have felt like Swarm Season minus Jaedong. What happened there?
On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote: a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
Hmm, yeah, maybe he should have a low spot on PR. Also, somehow the last few months have felt like Swarm Season minus Jaedong. What happened there?
Uh, minus Jaedong? Dual leagues (again/still) and a 14-4 record is "minus" Jaedong?
On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote: a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
Hmm, yeah, maybe he should have a low spot on PR. Also, somehow the last few months have felt like Swarm Season minus Jaedong. What happened there?
Uh, minus Jaedong? Dual leagues (again/still) and a 14-4 record is "minus" Jaedong?
And you can't deny that Jaedong has been doing worse than Flash by quite a bit, and I'd say a bit worse than Bisu. He's pretty much lost any game against a player of a comparable strength, and he lost games to Hiya and Hydra. He's in dual leagues because he's seeded. He has yet to win a starleague game.
On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote: a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
Hmm, yeah, maybe he should have a low spot on PR. Also, somehow the last few months have felt like Swarm Season minus Jaedong. What happened there?
Uh, minus Jaedong? Dual leagues (again/still) and a 14-4 record is "minus" Jaedong?
And you can't deny that Jaedong has been doing worse than Flash by quite a bit, and I'd say a bit worse than Bisu. He's pretty much lost any game against a player of a comparable strength, and he lost games to Hiya and Hydra. He's in dual leagues because he's seeded. He has yet to win a starleague game.
Flash is 13-3 since the OSL finals with Jaedong. His losses were against Kal, Light and Best. All three of those players are very good and are completely understandable losses.
Jaedong is 14-5 since that finals. Jaedong's losses have been to Hiya, Hydra, Zero, Stork, and Light. The only questionable losses there are to Hydra and Hiya (both of them are good but not top tier players) one of which was a ZvZ and the other was a teamkill.
13-3 and 14-5 is a very comparable record, though Flashes is definitely better. The comment about Jaedong not winning a Starleague game yet is really silly, neither has Flash, yet that doesn't stop him from being #1. They each have only played one game in an individual league each so far this season. Also the fact that they were both seeded in both leagues (from Dual Finals) should give Flash and Jaedong the benefit of the doubt.
On December 13 2010 04:24 Zaxro wrote:The comment about Jaedong not winning a Starleague game yet is really silly, neither has Flash, yet that doesn't stop him from being #1.
Yeah, I know. I only mentioned it because someone else mentioned that they are in both leagues, when they are only there by being seeds. Both comments are irrelevant in my opinion. I agree that JD should be given the benefit of the doubt, but the fact that he lost to everyone good he's played is something worth noting.
On December 12 2010 13:28 dani_caliKorea wrote: a lof the suggestions here seem to overlook Hydra.
I agree wholeheartedly. Hydra is 8-2 in his last 10, amongst those 8 including Jaedong and Free. He is also at his elo peak, being at 2166(!). He has really gone under the radar, even though he has been quite the dependable member on CJ.
Hmm, yeah, maybe he should have a low spot on PR. Also, somehow the last few months have felt like Swarm Season minus Jaedong. What happened there?
Uh, minus Jaedong? Dual leagues (again/still) and a 14-4 record is "minus" Jaedong?
And you can't deny that Jaedong has been doing worse than Flash by quite a bit, and I'd say a bit worse than Bisu. He's pretty much lost any game against a player of a comparable strength, and he lost games to Hiya and Hydra. He's in dual leagues because he's seeded. He has yet to win a starleague game.
Are you serious? Bisu got knocked out by Shine, AGAIN.
1. Flash - Just too strong to put him anywhere but here. When it's going to end? 2. Jaedong - As usual, few ups and downs, but he is still ahead of the competition. 3. Shine - Monstrous winning streak is a reminescent of Effort's meteoric rise. 4. Fantasy - I bet he will fail to deliver in decisive moments, but now he does well. 5. Kal - no matter what happens, Kal simple belongs to the middle of the table. 6. Bisu - he tries his best at the moment, but OSL curse >> Legend of the Fall. 7. Stork - Without him, KHAN would probably Turn into cellphone gaming team. 8. Hydra - CJ Zerg legend continues. Let's hope Hydra is worthy of the legacy. 9. Sea - Out of six games, he loses two. Sadly, these two are often decisive sets. 10. Neo.G_Soulkey - Please, focus yourself and take the next step to S-class.
My ranking would be similar to Toleaz's but I'd swap Fantasy with Shine and Stork with Bisu. My reason is simply because I am slightly biased. I try not to be but both Fantasy and Stork seem more "stable" then Shine and Bisu respectively.
I'm not so convinced about 4th or 3rd place for Fantasy. His r1 performance were disapointing, and though he's doing better, he did lose his 1st ro16 osl match, plus a PL match right away. He's playing free friday (osl ro16), it should be a good test to see where he stands right now.
But i admit i haven't seen all his matchs since i hardly follow sk.
On December 13 2010 19:43 Ozarugold wrote: My ranking would be similar to Toleaz's but I'd swap Fantasy with Shine and Stork with Bisu. My reason is simply because I am slightly biased. I try not to be but both Fantasy and Stork seem more "stable" then Shine and Bisu respectively.
This plus...
On December 13 2010 20:45 Crisium wrote: ^agreed with Oz, except I'd also rather see free than Soulkey get number 10. Both have shown some downs, but free is still in both leagues, for now.
...this is what I'd probably do, although granted I'm not following BW very closely right now...
On December 14 2010 01:48 Fushin wrote: I'm not so convinced about 4th or 3rd place for Fantasy. His r1 performance were disapointing, and though he's doing better, he did lose his 1st ro16 osl match, plus a PL match right away. He's playing free friday (osl ro16), it should be a good test to see where he stands right now.
But i admit i haven't seen all his matchs since i hardly follow sk.
He did break the 2300 barrier earlier this month, setting a new personal best ELO peak of 2310. Third in ELO, third in KeSPA with pretty substantial margins and fresh off a 12 game win streak. I'd be inclined to keep him as third on PR.
It's really sick how Flash & Jaedong are basically deadlocked at #1 and #2 respectively until something really really noteworthy happens, like one of them dropping out of both leagues or some kind of insane losing streak.
On December 14 2010 03:04 Mooncat wrote: It's really sick how Flash & Jaedong are basically deadlocked at #1 and #2 respectively until something really really noteworthy happens, like one of them dropping out of both leagues or some kind of insane losing streak.
Yeah. Sick, but true too. So far, they've shown us that they've been miles ahead of others for quite some time now. When was the last time we saw a final without one of those in it or without both of them for that matter...
On December 14 2010 03:04 Mooncat wrote: It's really sick how Flash & Jaedong are basically deadlocked at #1 and #2 respectively until something really really noteworthy happens, like one of them dropping out of both leagues or some kind of insane losing streak.
If Fantasy had won his game against Modesty and then not failed amazingly against Movie, I'd be giving him #2 though. 14 wins in a row would have been ridiculous, and incidentally better than Jaedong and Flash have ever managed.
In terms of reverse chronological order Flash won the OSL finals over Jaedong, won the OSL semis over Free (3-1), and then won MSL finals over Jaedong. I don't know how you're counting, but losing that game to Free definitely knocks him from a 15 game winstreak "just before dual golds". Even discounting that, he lost a game to Kal during WCG Korea not long before MSL finals and was 3-2 against Fantasy in Bigfile semis.
Actually, I see you're discounting the STX Masters' game and PL All-Stars. Yes, he had 15 games then.
On December 13 2010 20:45 Crisium wrote: ^agreed with Oz, except I'd also rather see free than Soulkey get number 10. Both have shown some downs, but free is still in both leagues, for now.
soulkey's opponents were much stronger then free's
also soulkey has a slightly better record with 6-4 vs free's 5-4
On December 14 2010 08:05 flamewheel wrote: Either way I think #1 spot on PR should just be turned into a "list what new records Flash has set this month."
That's pretty much what happens when there is a bonjwa... don't bother fighting it. There's a reason why bonjwa means undisputed number 1...
I can't wait for this month's PR. We will see Stork rise from #10 a few spots higher. And higher yet in January before reaching #1 in February through dominance of the individual leagues.
We need the disciples of the school of Stork to spread the word of his coming and return to the greatest player in the world. The leader of the Austrian branch, Daniel, has been doing his part with tremendous success in the heart of Korea.
I switched to Terran for SC2. But I don't really root for them there over the other races. In BW, however, I am all about Protoss and their glorious leader Stork.
Very off topic, but I don't like Protoss in SC2 because of their dependence on forcefield. I don't like the idea of the Protoss having an inferior army lest they divide their opponent's in half. I am aware of the importance of Stasis, but that is only for one matchup. Forcefields are needed for both and most builds utilize them. I want the Protoss ball of death, not the Protoss ball of divide your army in half or runaway if you mess up.
hello guys, I am a long time lurker here. this is my first post, a power rank IMHO to read while waiting for next month's PR
1. Flash Have we run out of words to describe Flash yet? Because frankly, I don’t think we have enough words to describe this kid any longer. Surreal? Been there. Godlike? Done that. Kratos of SC:BW? Well... haven’t heard of that, but you get the idea. While I wouldn’t say Flash is unbeatable, I would say he’s the default favorite against anyone right now - come to think of it, even his only two losses this month to Light and AztecKal were also hard-earned victories for Flash’s opponents. Otherwise, his wins have been but two words: UTTER DOMINATION. And do you know Flash has just Battlecruiser’d his way through Jaedong’s vZ ELO record? Yes, JAEDONG’s vZ. As Sea puts it “Majority of the teams, including us, heavily commit to vT practice when facing KT” - if a team’s player makes every other team commit harder to a matchup then that player must be pretty good, right? RIGHT?
2. Jaedong Ah, Jaedong... I don’t see anyone deserving the 2nd place on the Power Rank more than you are. If Flash hadn’t played Starcraft, you would have become a legend. Even though this month Jaedong has lost games (some of them Ace matches!) he has always been the reason Oz never gets 0-4 swept ever since the season’s beginning, and the default favorite against anyone that isn’t Flash. I could even imagine Jaedong saying this to Hiya after their OSL match: “When we get home, you, me, ZvT practice, till morning.” And his wins also share the same pattern with Flash’s, that is, utter domination. See Hero right there? Next time STX face Oz he’s gonna beg the coach to find a different sacrificial lamb.
3. Shine (new) Shine is the ultimate Dark Horse of the Power Rank. He may not be a Starleague, or a Proleague winner, but he is the man. Who other than Shine could cause 2 ban waves in less than one year, playing against the same opponent, in the same circumstance? Shine is so baller, he all-in’d the loveable Sea just because he wanted to relieve himself, proving that answering the call of nature ALWAYS has a higher priority than playing a good game of Starcraft. While flamewheel says the #1 place could be reserved to list the records that Flash has broken, I have reserved this place to list the records that Shine has broken. 3 ELO points away from equaling his vP peak and new peak in every other matter (His overall ELO even surpassed Light and Stork’s!), 2nd best Zerg in terms of ELO after Jaedong, and a 13 win streak that is yet to be broken. Oh, and Bisu fanboy tears. Mmm.
4. Fantasy (+5) Fact: Fantasy is good, as proven by his 12-game win streak. Fact: Fantasy joined the 2300 ELO club more than once, albeit his membership was often short-lived. Fact: Fantasy loses when he is least expected to. Looking back, Fantasy was always ONE game away from achieving something great, and he still is today. Against Stork. Then against Jaedong. Then against Flash. Fantasy was the saving grace for SKT against Stars and on his way to extend the streak to 13, then of all people to lose to, he chose Modesty, on that same day, in the OSL. Against Movie, I guess it doesn’t need any more explanation, since Fantasy’s choice was a do-in-spectacular-fashion-or-die-in-hilarious-stupidity build. And Movie didn’t open 12 Nexus. Fantasy, you are the protégé of two bonjwas, the top of A-class. We all know you can do better than that, but is the shadow of the S-class too great for you?
5. Kal Kal is a pretty cool guy (no meme intended). As unlikely as it may be, Kal is the flagship of Protoss revival for the end of 2010. He made it into both OSL and MSL, starting off the former with wins over Baby and Flash with the help of Aztec, and beat through the Wildcard tournament to become one of the MSL’s 8 seeds. Kal also racked up 2 Ace match wins in the since the beginning of Round 2, against Bisu and great, respectively. Don’t understand why I wouldn’t place him higher than Fantasy, but it’s probably due to the fact that Kal is not at THAT top of the A-class to challenge Fantasy yet. So he stays at 5th place, but if Kal could show some more exceptional performance in the new year, he will definitely rise.
6. Stork (+4) Way to go, Dino! Stork has been on a rampage lately since the last Power Rank, going 8-1 in all 3 PL, MSL and OSL fronts, with notable wins against Shuttle and NGS. With Jangbi may finally be able to get his mojo back, Stork & Co. could definitely raise KHAN back to be power once again, while at the same crack skulls and kick asses in the individual league with cell phone games Dinotoss might. Oh, and this guarantees Stork vs Shine is going to be good. Unless nature calls Shine again, that is.
7. Bisu (-4) Bruce Lee Toss. Revolutionist of PvZ. Zergslayer of Proleague. Yong-Taek against 이영한. I don’t think I’ve never seen Bisu’s play style in any other sports or games, and I would say his style is too mentality-oriented. When his mentality is good, he will burn like a rocket and take anyone he chooses to a ride on his bus (Jaedong is no exception), and when his mentality is bad, he will crack under his own pressure and in the end, find himself on his opponent’s bus, regardless of how bad that opponent really is. Apart from some wins that seemed rather shaky, Bisu’s losses to Kal and Shine cruelly pointed out that weakness for exploitation. But that’s another story; now that another OSL dream has been put to an end, let’s hope Bisu can focus better on Proleague and MSL.
8. Sea I feel quite sad for Sea that he’s unlikely to going to get higher than this, just like in the individual leagues. Despite a good record, and beating Kal, free, Stats - opponents against whom Sea’s got an equal chance - he loses to Much and Shine - opponents against whom Sea’s almost the autowin. Sea is in both MSL and OSL, but after losing to Shine his chance in the latter is very slim, for he has Stork and Mind left to face - Mind is no pushover and last time Sea met Stork he was molested. So Sea stays, but not without hope for TL’s loveable.
9. Hydra (new) Was thinking if I am leaving someone out undeservingly of the Power Rank and BAM - Hydra came up. Effort’s unlikely replacement is definitely one of the most unexpected newcomers of Power Rank, and most underrated also. Underrated, but do you really think he’s not worthy to make an appearance now being on a 7-game win streak, surviving MST, rolling both Kwanro and free in the OSL, and even beating Jaedong in an Ace match? Welcome to the Power Rank Hydra - and sorry I almost forgot you right there.
10. Light (new) Light has gone 5-3 since the last Power Rank, but what grants him a slice in this is a steady performance ever since Round 2, having earned MBC a precious win by edging out Zero in the Ace match, avenging his loss in the same circumstance just 3 weeks ago, and more notably, a win against Flash. I’ve begun this Power Rank with a Sea quote and felt it would be fitting to end with another Sea quote: “That's how much of a fearsome being Flash is, and it also means that you can gain that much more attention and fame by simply defeating him.” That’s right. Power Rank is what Sea was talking about.
Reasons these guys who were out of PR Zero, Neo.G_Soulkey, Snow - Try harder boys, stop losing games in one-sided manner.
No doubt Shine should be #3 right now. Fantasy can still take #4, even though his game against Movie hurt to watch. Not sure about #10 being Light, because of half of Woongjin wanting to get that spot, but your #1-9 are pretty spot on.
This is a longshot, but I hope Brave at least gets on the Close list. He has quietly put together an impressive resume, and may be the next Shuttle/Horang2 in the list of PvP giants, though it's perhaps too soon to tell.
On December 15 2010 08:26 Holgerius wrote: Hmmm, didn't realize this until now but Flash has a pretty stacked schedule coming up. SKT, OSL and MSL in a matter of two days, that can be rough. =/
If anyone can make it through that schedule it's Flash. Also he's playing against Ssak and Paralyze...
On December 15 2010 08:26 Holgerius wrote: Hmmm, didn't realize this until now but Flash has a pretty stacked schedule coming up. SKT, OSL and MSL in a matter of two days, that can be rough. =/
On December 15 2010 08:26 Holgerius wrote: Hmmm, didn't realize this until now but Flash has a pretty stacked schedule coming up. SKT, OSL and MSL in a matter of two days, that can be rough. =/
If anyone can make it through that schedule it's Flash. Also he's playing against Ssak and Paralyze...
Ya, I know. He's been through worse stuff before (pretty much the same thing but with Bo5's) and the players are pretty bad, but still... I'm not entirely at ease. =/
On December 15 2010 08:26 Holgerius wrote: Hmmm, didn't realize this until now but Flash has a pretty stacked schedule coming up. SKT, OSL and MSL in a matter of two days, that can be rough. =/
On December 12 2010 01:19 Waxangel wrote: Shine's record is why I think not giving past credit is a good policy for the PRs. Because we can just pencil him in for #2 because you can't argue with pure record and game content over a month. Purely record wise, I think we have to go Fantasy - Shine - Flash - Sea this month. I dunno if JD even breaks top 5 purely record wise for the month.
You want PR to be even worse than ELO @_@
LOL!
I could write new ELO formula, though I'm not Arpad Elo for You, PR won't need writer.
On December 15 2010 08:26 Holgerius wrote: Hmmm, didn't realize this until now but Flash has a pretty stacked schedule coming up. SKT, OSL and MSL in a matter of two days, that can be rough. =/
I <3 Bisu, but I think Stork might be a contender for rank 1 next month, depending on how his games go tonight. He's the only top player still in both leagues, and he's 12-3 in December, and 17-4 in his last 21 games :o .
I think Flash might still be the best/most scary, but he's showing signs of weakness, while Tosses have really stepped up their game as of late (or maybe it's just the maps^^).