Bisu's PvZ Revolution Analyzed From Modern Look
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jinjin5000
United States1396 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7700 Posts
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goody153
44054 Posts
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GTR
51392 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33154 Posts
On March 10 2025 07:04 GTR wrote: this blog post from plexa from 2008 is also a nice primer to the revolution; namely that daezang is given a lot of credit for putting down a lot of the foundations bisu built upon (along with nal_ra) Yah I think it's not great that even the KR BW community just goes with the simple, sexy narrative than credit ppl like Anytime etc It's one of my regrets about some of TL.net's writing over the years | ||
iFU.pauline
France1469 Posts
Thanks for the video jinjin. | ||
HOLYBATS
Turkey701 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia912 Posts
What P needs is a solid way to deal with 5 muta/scourge macro opener that doesn't involve blind 2 stargate sair and doesn't put P behind in midgame. It isn't so bad as requiring an entire revolution, though. | ||
Nirli
Bulgaria356 Posts
On March 10 2025 18:49 Soulforged wrote: The horizontal entry to natural change to modern maps is the "revolution" against hydra bust. What P needs is a solid way to deal with 5 muta/scourge macro opener that doesn't involve blind 2 stargate sair and doesn't put P behind in midgame. It isn't so bad as requiring an entire revolution, though. They should make the first Zealot warped in invisible for 2 mins. Problem solved. | ||
Xeln4g4
Italy1208 Posts
On March 10 2025 17:33 HOLYBATS wrote: Protoss need one more revolution against hydra bust. Come on Bisu! you have it already! It's called scouting + mass cannon ![]() | ||
quaristice
112 Posts
the building placement in general by both players is also very poor and we see even in modern games thats one of the things that makes a big difference between top ASL players. you can copy it for simple situations like the simcity at the entrance but just in general it's a fuzzy skill for a lot of other situations i wonder a little if savior was already matchfixing at this point but from what i understand most people think he wasn't doing it yet. so i kind of doubt it. just the micro difference made me still ask myself this. | ||
iFU.pauline
France1469 Posts
On March 11 2025 00:56 quaristice wrote: it's worth noting that if you watch the full match bisu also just basically completely outmicro'd savior on basically every interaction. i watched it like 2 months ago and it's just physically painful how many outright execution mistakes savior made. and bisu's micro is pretty bad by modern standards too. it made me cringe a bit. there's a bit in the game on reverse temple where he gets his whole army psi-stormed so hard, soma commented a little bit on it politely saying that hydras weren't afraid of storm back then. the building placement in general by both players is also very poor and we see even in modern games thats one of the things that makes a big difference between top ASL players. you can copy it for simple situations like the simcity at the entrance but just in general it's a fuzzy skill for a lot of other situations i wonder a little if savior was already matchfixing at this point but from what i understand most people think he wasn't doing it yet. so i kind of doubt it. just the micro difference made me still ask myself this. Or maybe Soma is being sarcastic because storms is often the only reason why a protoss would win an engagement so dodging them has always been vital for zerg. I don't think this lose is related to match fixing whatsoever, there are games where you are taken by surprise so much it completely breaks your ability to perform and you happen to suck at every single moves. Also, Bisu's macro and speed was way beyond sAviOr, I think Bisu could have just won using brute force to be honest. In the end, this final looked more like a transition to a new generation of players. | ||
tankgirl
351 Posts
thanks as always for your translations i noticed in the video the use of the term "game theory" does soma/other koreans use this term in the same sense as english speakers? in my mind, "game theory" has very specific connotation, i.e as a branch of applied mathematics or was this just a convienent translation? thanks [edit] was this specific match/series between bisu/savior really the first time anyone had seen this type of build (at least, executed as well as bisu did?) what i means is, was this truly just an "mic drop" type scenario, where everyone except bisu/coaches was left with their jaws on the floor? | ||
jinjin5000
United States1396 Posts
On March 12 2025 07:59 tankgirl wrote: Hi thanks as always for your translations i noticed in the video the use of the term "game theory" does soma/other koreans use this term in the same sense as english speakers? in my mind, "game theory" has very specific connotation, i.e as a branch of applied mathematics or was this just a convienent translation? thanks [edit] was this specific match/series between bisu/savior really the first time anyone had seen this type of build (at least, executed as well as bisu did?) what i means is, was this truly just an "mic drop" type scenario, where everyone except bisu/coaches was left with their jaws on the floor? I meant more of game concepts/game knowledge but I didn't know how to exactly translate it smoothly The conceptual knowledge of game/game flow | ||
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GTR
51392 Posts
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tankgirl
351 Posts
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mtcn77
Turkey221 Posts
On March 11 2025 00:56 quaristice wrote: it's worth noting that if you watch the full match bisu also just basically completely outmicro'd savior on basically every interaction. i watched it like 2 months ago and it's just physically painful how many outright execution mistakes savior made. and bisu's micro is pretty bad by modern standards too. it made me cringe a bit. there's a bit in the game on reverse temple where he gets his whole army psi-stormed so hard, soma commented a little bit on it politely saying that hydras weren't afraid of storm back then. the building placement in general by both players is also very poor and we see even in modern games thats one of the things that makes a big difference between top ASL players. you can copy it for simple situations like the simcity at the entrance but just in general it's a fuzzy skill for a lot of other situations i wonder a little if savior was already matchfixing at this point but from what i understand most people think he wasn't doing it yet. so i kind of doubt it. just the micro difference made me still ask myself this. It is times like these I think protoss gets a bad rep for being easy to play. Having watched Mini vs Mong in the preliminary, protoss is neither easy, nor low apm. In fact, most of the time you need twice the apm to win against your opponent as in prime Bisu and hopefully soon Mini, too. | ||
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands696 Posts
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