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If results is everything, Effort should be #2. But it's not everything so he will be #3.
Saying that Jaedong failed to adapt while effort didn't is really unfair.
Effort adapted in one game, game 5, where he went zergling allin vs 14CC. Had it been a map where flash could make a lingproof wall that wouldn't have worked. Jaedong tried something like it with the hydrabreak and he was really close of getting past. This time it didn't work for him.
In game 3 and 4 effort didn't do anything spectacular to "adapt" to the situation rather than changing his build once he found dual proxy rax in the middle.
Jaedong adapted by deveating his build into more greedy to try to get into an advantagous position in the lategame.
Calling Jaedong anything but the second best player right now is just wrong when looking at the games more closely and analyzing them.
1. flash 2. jaedong 3. effort
imo
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 30 2010 05:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 03:24 tree.hugger wrote:On May 29 2010 20:47 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I like how you have this enormously longwinded section on effort and jaedong compared to everyone else. You literally did noting but compliment Effort while faulting everyone else. I understand where you're coming from but you're trying too hard to justify him.
You can't criticize everyone but one person unless that one person did something like a lossless month of domination. I think I wrote enough I about each. I imagined the biggest point of contention would be Jaedong and EffOrt battling over the second spot, and so I wrote a lot about Jaedong too. At the end of the Jaedong section, I suggested why Jaedong should still the get benefit of the doubt over EffOrt. At the same time, EffOrt has had a great month, and gotten a lot of random hate. I think your point is not really fair. Dude, the Effort part of your post is like a love letter. It's not a point, I'm just making fun of your "reasoning" for being transparently bias in favor of the guy you like, while trying to make it sound all legit. I mean seriously reread the Effort part of that rank and notice how you just say Effort's amazing at everything and is the future of starcraft. I actually found it funnyI mean here re read it right here for ease's sake: + Show Spoiler +This month, EffOrt occupied the position that he had begun to build for himself last summer in the proleague finals, as among BW's elite. Nonetheless, a lot of people have said some remarkably silly things about EffOrt recently. That's a shame, because EffOrt's OSL victory had all the hallmarks of a future champion. He showed grit and determination against a superior opponent. He did not break under pressure. He adapted in-game. And he harnessed the little bit of luck that came his way and ran with it.
In fact, what many people seemed to have missed about EffOrt's OSL run was how out of character it actually was. EffOrt is the management zerg to Jaedong's aggression. EffOrt races for a hive, and throws up crazy expansions. He attacks with small groups all over the map. He wears down his opponents. Which is why it was so interesting to see EffOrt break out a devastating early/mid-game to complement his superb late game multitasking ability. That's partially a product of CJ's coaching, but it's also a testament to EffOrt's skill as a player. And above all else, this should be alarming to EffOrt's future opponents. Giving this kid main stage experience, and expanding his deadly arsenal of tools can only mean more summer domination from the messiahlisk. The legend of the tiebreaker lives on. My favorite part is where you go "he won with aggression, now let me wax poetic about how he plays lategame." It is the closest thing I can imagine to a word for word regurgitation of what a diehard fan thinks of him. And there's nothing wrong with that! Don't get me wrong, I am numero uno in support of diehard fansmanship, it makes the game more important and lively for us fanboys. I'm just laughing that you tried to make a rank out of that exact horribly biased mindset. The best part is I actually agree with your ranks, just find your descriptions utterly hilarious. PS: Every player gets random hate. You don't have to justify it. Most players who get random hate are either unyieldingly awful or quite good. Though in effort's case I think a lot of it was the horrrrrible tiebreakers and the admittedly kindof-sortof cheesey win in the OSL (I'm not discrediting! Totally not! I'm seriously doing my best not to get misunderstood, Effort totally earned that OSL title)
I mean, you're right about the reason EffOrt got a lot of negativity after the OSL - I also figure a ton of people never really saw EffOrt play last year, only the awful slump he just came out of. And he did win the OSL in 30 minutes after a long build up, and the huge expectations on Flash, especially after that game two beat-down.
But honestly, I wrote that section on  EffOrt in the way that I did because (1) It's all true, and (2) Plexa won't do it. I could've talked about how his multi-task was straight-up beaten in the second game of the OSL, and how his push breaking in game one might've been handled better. But EffOrt has had the best month of the top three, and I feel like I have to compensate for ridiculous Plexa "dirty zerg" arguments all the time.
I stuck the reasons that EffOrt should be #3 to Jaedong's #2 in the JD section. But for all of EffOrt's sublime play, he needs to continue it and keep it going into the next starleague season. I believe he will, but I don't know that he will. Jaedong though, is not going anywhere, and I'm positive about that.
I probably didn't do enough justice to Flash in that write-up either, but honestly, it's getting difficult to list the ways that Flash is impressing me lately. Yesterday though, I should mention that the versatility of Flash's play was absolutely breathtaking. Only his anti-scourge control needs work. (Haha, just had to get that in there.)
But I also saw something from  Flash that I had only really seen recently from Jaedong before. I knew Flash was going to win the MSL, because I knew that Flash would never make the same mistakes twice. I knew that Flash had rebounded even more strongly from his CJ losses and was simply not going to lose to any zerg, even Jaedong. And in last years MSL, we saw Flash wilt a bit. But this starleague season we didn't see any such thing.
So to clarify a point I made earlier, EffOrt might be the future of starcraft, and I hope he stays in this conversation. But Flash is the future of starcraft.*
*+ Show Spoiler +Princess, of course, is the future of the future of starcraft.
***
These three are clearly the best right now, but as high as Flash is, I don't think the gaps between #1 and #5 are as large as they looked last season. I love what we're seeing from BaBy right now, and I think  Kal is playing some of the best starcraft of his life; even if he can't deliver against the top three.
If anything, I feel like there's a surprising gap between #5 and #6. There's no consistency in the back 5, and although I have a list of players who are doing well, it's just so hard to see how they stack up outside of the lower/mid rounds of the starleagues.
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On May 30 2010 03:24 tree.hugger wrote:
Also, there's a huge difference between someone like Shine who comes out of nowhere to 1a2a3a his way to the OSL semi-finals, and a guy like EffOrt who has already earned his credibility as a top-level gamer who comes out of a slump to win the OSL. Not a fluke.
If he came out of a slump there wouldn't be any argument. But how can you say that when all what we've seen was one well prepared series against Kal and one good win against flash in spl? That's not nearly enough to judge whether or not someone one's slump is over, and especially not enough to warrant placing him at 3rd place and above totally out of blue.
Yeah, we also saw efforts BoX against Flash that get him gold, but if it showed anything is that he's not anywhere close to the Flash in his solid mid-late gameplay, since in games that, you know, weren't all-ins he was humiliated.
On May 30 2010 03:07 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Even if you think his win over Flash was a fluke, he crushed Kal, the perennial #4, viciously in a painful 3-0. On top of that, he did beat Flash earlier this month in a very adequate game. Flash will be the #1 this month, and Effort is the only guy with an impressive record on him.
You honestly wanna say these 4 games against 2 players outshine Jaedong's performance this month?
And while having good record on someone is cute it doesn't bear any special meaning to draw conclusions from.
After checking tlpd:
flash vs effort 8:5
what is this? Stork has much better record against flash, let alone Jaedong.
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Effort beat #1 and #4 in Bo5s. I wouldn't be upset if he was ahead of Jaedong. I also wouldn't be upset is Jaedong is above him.
I don't care about overall record. It's about this month, and for this month you'd be insane to think Effort isn't close to Jaedong, whether or not you think he's ahead, behind, or equal.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 30 2010 06:03 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 03:24 tree.hugger wrote:
Also, there's a huge difference between someone like Shine who comes out of nowhere to 1a2a3a his way to the OSL semi-finals, and a guy like EffOrt who has already earned his credibility as a top-level gamer who comes out of a slump to win the OSL. Not a fluke. If he came out of a slump there wouldn't be any argument. But how can you say that when all what we've seen was one well prepared series against Kal and one good win against flash in spl? That's not nearly enough to judge whether or not someone one's slump is over, and especially not enough to warrant placing him at 3rd place and above totally out of blue. Yeah, we also saw efforts BoX against Flash that get him gold, but if it showed anything is that he's not anywhere close to the Flash in his solid mid-late gameplay, since in games that, you know, weren't all-ins he was humiliated.
EffOrt is 13-2 and since the tiebreakers, with proleague wins against Action, Kwanro, fantasy, great, and Flash. He's beaten ZerO, Kal, and Flash in BoX's.
He's out of his slump.
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On May 30 2010 05:58 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 05:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:On May 30 2010 03:24 tree.hugger wrote:On May 29 2010 20:47 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I like how you have this enormously longwinded section on effort and jaedong compared to everyone else. You literally did noting but compliment Effort while faulting everyone else. I understand where you're coming from but you're trying too hard to justify him.
You can't criticize everyone but one person unless that one person did something like a lossless month of domination. I think I wrote enough I about each. I imagined the biggest point of contention would be Jaedong and EffOrt battling over the second spot, and so I wrote a lot about Jaedong too. At the end of the Jaedong section, I suggested why Jaedong should still the get benefit of the doubt over EffOrt. At the same time, EffOrt has had a great month, and gotten a lot of random hate. I think your point is not really fair. Dude, the Effort part of your post is like a love letter. It's not a point, I'm just making fun of your "reasoning" for being transparently bias in favor of the guy you like, while trying to make it sound all legit. I mean seriously reread the Effort part of that rank and notice how you just say Effort's amazing at everything and is the future of starcraft. I actually found it funnyI mean here re read it right here for ease's sake: + Show Spoiler +This month, EffOrt occupied the position that he had begun to build for himself last summer in the proleague finals, as among BW's elite. Nonetheless, a lot of people have said some remarkably silly things about EffOrt recently. That's a shame, because EffOrt's OSL victory had all the hallmarks of a future champion. He showed grit and determination against a superior opponent. He did not break under pressure. He adapted in-game. And he harnessed the little bit of luck that came his way and ran with it.
In fact, what many people seemed to have missed about EffOrt's OSL run was how out of character it actually was. EffOrt is the management zerg to Jaedong's aggression. EffOrt races for a hive, and throws up crazy expansions. He attacks with small groups all over the map. He wears down his opponents. Which is why it was so interesting to see EffOrt break out a devastating early/mid-game to complement his superb late game multitasking ability. That's partially a product of CJ's coaching, but it's also a testament to EffOrt's skill as a player. And above all else, this should be alarming to EffOrt's future opponents. Giving this kid main stage experience, and expanding his deadly arsenal of tools can only mean more summer domination from the messiahlisk. The legend of the tiebreaker lives on. My favorite part is where you go "he won with aggression, now let me wax poetic about how he plays lategame." It is the closest thing I can imagine to a word for word regurgitation of what a diehard fan thinks of him. And there's nothing wrong with that! Don't get me wrong, I am numero uno in support of diehard fansmanship, it makes the game more important and lively for us fanboys. I'm just laughing that you tried to make a rank out of that exact horribly biased mindset. The best part is I actually agree with your ranks, just find your descriptions utterly hilarious. PS: Every player gets random hate. You don't have to justify it. Most players who get random hate are either unyieldingly awful or quite good. Though in effort's case I think a lot of it was the horrrrrible tiebreakers and the admittedly kindof-sortof cheesey win in the OSL (I'm not discrediting! Totally not! I'm seriously doing my best not to get misunderstood, Effort totally earned that OSL title) I mean, you're right about the reason EffOrt got a lot of negativity after the OSL - I also figure a ton of people never really saw EffOrt play last year, only the awful slump he just came out of. And he did win the OSL in 30 minutes after a long build up, and the huge expectations on Flash, especially after that game two beat-down. But honestly, I wrote that section on EffOrt in the way that I did because (1) It's all true, and (2) Plexa won't do it. I could've talked about how his multi-task was straight-up beaten in the second game of the OSL, and how his push breaking in game one might've been handled better. But EffOrt has had the best month of the top three, and I feel like I have to compensate for ridiculous Plexa "dirty zerg" arguments all the time. I stuck the reasons that EffOrt should be #3 to Jaedong's #2 in the JD section. But for all of EffOrt's sublime play, he needs to continue it and keep it going into the next starleague season. I believe he will, but I don't know that he will. Jaedong though, is not going anywhere, and I'm positive about that. I probably didn't do enough justice to Flash in that write-up either, but honestly, it's getting difficult to list the ways that Flash is impressing me lately. Yesterday though, I should mention that the versatility of Flash's play was absolutely breathtaking. Only his anti-scourge control needs work. (Haha, just had to get that in there.) But I also saw something from Flash that I had only really seen recently from Jaedong before. I knew Flash was going to win the MSL, because I knew that Flash would never make the same mistakes twice. I knew that Flash had rebounded even more strongly from his CJ losses and was simply not going to lose to any zerg, even Jaedong. And in last years MSL, we saw Flash wilt a bit. But this starleague season we didn't see any such thing. So to clarify a point I made earlier, EffOrt might be the future of starcraft, and I hope he stays in this conversation. But Flash is the future of starcraft.* * + Show Spoiler +Princess, of course, is the future of the future of starcraft. *** These three are clearly the best right now, but as high as Flash is, I don't think the gaps between #1 and #5 are as large as they looked last season. I love what we're seeing from BaBy right now, and I think Kal is playing some of the best starcraft of his life; even if he can't deliver against the top three. If anything, I feel like there's a surprising gap between #5 and #6. There's no consistency in the back 5, and although I have a list of players who are doing well, it's just so hard to see how they stack up outside of the lower/mid rounds of the starleagues.
It's all good dude, but you can't tell me it was tinted, neigh, painted in Effort fanboyism. You even used a silly nickname (messiahlisk is such a bad nickname I'm sorry Effort fans) and said he established a "legend" from what is probably the biggest blackmark of his career in the tiebreakers. It'd be like me saying "legend of the 14cc" a year ago because Flash did technically win more often than he lost with 14cc, but that's not a bright spot!
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Yeah since jaedong lost 0-3 effort is closer than I thought he would.
But the fact that Jaedong was close in two games, game 1 and 3, while effort did just manage to sneak in his win with a 3-2 victory it doesn't prove to me Effort was better this month than JD.
If effort had showed superior play and won 3-1 or so I would gladly accept him as #2.
Jaedong is a player who cuts corners aswell as flash. Sometimes when they lose doing this they look silly. Aswell as effort would have looked silly if flash had blocked his choke that fifth game.
Had effort lost the last game that way, no one would have argued that he was #2. But a small deciding thing like that change everyones mind. You have to look at the bigger picture when ranking the players imo.
I predict jaedong as #2 on the next PR.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 30 2010 06:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 05:58 tree.hugger wrote:On May 30 2010 05:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:On May 30 2010 03:24 tree.hugger wrote:On May 29 2010 20:47 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I like how you have this enormously longwinded section on effort and jaedong compared to everyone else. You literally did noting but compliment Effort while faulting everyone else. I understand where you're coming from but you're trying too hard to justify him.
You can't criticize everyone but one person unless that one person did something like a lossless month of domination. I think I wrote enough I about each. I imagined the biggest point of contention would be Jaedong and EffOrt battling over the second spot, and so I wrote a lot about Jaedong too. At the end of the Jaedong section, I suggested why Jaedong should still the get benefit of the doubt over EffOrt. At the same time, EffOrt has had a great month, and gotten a lot of random hate. I think your point is not really fair. Dude, the Effort part of your post is like a love letter. It's not a point, I'm just making fun of your "reasoning" for being transparently bias in favor of the guy you like, while trying to make it sound all legit. I mean seriously reread the Effort part of that rank and notice how you just say Effort's amazing at everything and is the future of starcraft. I actually found it funnyI mean here re read it right here for ease's sake: + Show Spoiler +This month, EffOrt occupied the position that he had begun to build for himself last summer in the proleague finals, as among BW's elite. Nonetheless, a lot of people have said some remarkably silly things about EffOrt recently. That's a shame, because EffOrt's OSL victory had all the hallmarks of a future champion. He showed grit and determination against a superior opponent. He did not break under pressure. He adapted in-game. And he harnessed the little bit of luck that came his way and ran with it.
In fact, what many people seemed to have missed about EffOrt's OSL run was how out of character it actually was. EffOrt is the management zerg to Jaedong's aggression. EffOrt races for a hive, and throws up crazy expansions. He attacks with small groups all over the map. He wears down his opponents. Which is why it was so interesting to see EffOrt break out a devastating early/mid-game to complement his superb late game multitasking ability. That's partially a product of CJ's coaching, but it's also a testament to EffOrt's skill as a player. And above all else, this should be alarming to EffOrt's future opponents. Giving this kid main stage experience, and expanding his deadly arsenal of tools can only mean more summer domination from the messiahlisk. The legend of the tiebreaker lives on. My favorite part is where you go "he won with aggression, now let me wax poetic about how he plays lategame." It is the closest thing I can imagine to a word for word regurgitation of what a diehard fan thinks of him. And there's nothing wrong with that! Don't get me wrong, I am numero uno in support of diehard fansmanship, it makes the game more important and lively for us fanboys. I'm just laughing that you tried to make a rank out of that exact horribly biased mindset. The best part is I actually agree with your ranks, just find your descriptions utterly hilarious. PS: Every player gets random hate. You don't have to justify it. Most players who get random hate are either unyieldingly awful or quite good. Though in effort's case I think a lot of it was the horrrrrible tiebreakers and the admittedly kindof-sortof cheesey win in the OSL (I'm not discrediting! Totally not! I'm seriously doing my best not to get misunderstood, Effort totally earned that OSL title) I mean, you're right about the reason EffOrt got a lot of negativity after the OSL - I also figure a ton of people never really saw EffOrt play last year, only the awful slump he just came out of. And he did win the OSL in 30 minutes after a long build up, and the huge expectations on Flash, especially after that game two beat-down. But honestly, I wrote that section on EffOrt in the way that I did because (1) It's all true, and (2) Plexa won't do it. I could've talked about how his multi-task was straight-up beaten in the second game of the OSL, and how his push breaking in game one might've been handled better. But EffOrt has had the best month of the top three, and I feel like I have to compensate for ridiculous Plexa "dirty zerg" arguments all the time. I stuck the reasons that EffOrt should be #3 to Jaedong's #2 in the JD section. But for all of EffOrt's sublime play, he needs to continue it and keep it going into the next starleague season. I believe he will, but I don't know that he will. Jaedong though, is not going anywhere, and I'm positive about that. I probably didn't do enough justice to Flash in that write-up either, but honestly, it's getting difficult to list the ways that Flash is impressing me lately. Yesterday though, I should mention that the versatility of Flash's play was absolutely breathtaking. Only his anti-scourge control needs work. (Haha, just had to get that in there.) But I also saw something from Flash that I had only really seen recently from Jaedong before. I knew Flash was going to win the MSL, because I knew that Flash would never make the same mistakes twice. I knew that Flash had rebounded even more strongly from his CJ losses and was simply not going to lose to any zerg, even Jaedong. And in last years MSL, we saw Flash wilt a bit. But this starleague season we didn't see any such thing. So to clarify a point I made earlier, EffOrt might be the future of starcraft, and I hope he stays in this conversation. But Flash is the future of starcraft.* * + Show Spoiler +Princess, of course, is the future of the future of starcraft. *** These three are clearly the best right now, but as high as Flash is, I don't think the gaps between #1 and #5 are as large as they looked last season. I love what we're seeing from BaBy right now, and I think Kal is playing some of the best starcraft of his life; even if he can't deliver against the top three. If anything, I feel like there's a surprising gap between #5 and #6. There's no consistency in the back 5, and although I have a list of players who are doing well, it's just so hard to see how they stack up outside of the lower/mid rounds of the starleagues. It's all good dude, but you can't tell me it was tinted, neigh, painted in Effort fanboyism. You even used a silly nickname (messiahlisk is such a bad nickname I'm sorry Effort fans) and said he established a "legend" from what is probably the biggest blackmark of his career in the tiebreakers. It'd be like me saying "legend of the 14cc" a year ago because Flash did technically win more often than he lost with 14cc, but that's not a bright spot!
But you know, the funny thing about the tiebreakers, was that EffOrt was just terrible before them, and suddenly, he just started winning again. And he rode that momentum to the OSL title.
I think there's something poetic about finding something in your lowest of lows (that was easily the worst day to be an EffOrt fan.) and then taking that and turning things around.
And messiahlisk is a fine nickname!
On May 30 2010 06:18 StylishVODs wrote:
Yeah since jaedong lost 0-3 effort is closer than I thought he would.
But the fact that Jaedong was close in two games, game 1 and 3, while effort did just manage to sneak in his win with a 3-2 victory it doesn't prove to me Effort was better this month than JD.
If effort had showed superior play and won 3-1 or so I would gladly accept him as #2.
Jaedong is a player who cuts corners aswell as flash. Sometimes when they lose doing this they look silly. Aswell as effort would have looked silly if flash had blocked his choke that fifth game.
Had effort lost the last game that way, no one would have argued that he was #2. But a small deciding thing like that change everyones mind. You have to look at the bigger picture when ranking the players imo.
I predict jaedong as #2 on the next PR.
You seem to be assuming that EffOrt was intending to go mass zerglings all along...
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On May 30 2010 05:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Every player gets random hate. You don't have to justify it. Most players who get random hate are either unyieldingly awful or quite good. Though in effort's case I think a lot of it was the horrrrrible tiebreakers and the admittedly kindof-sortof cheesey win in the OSL (I'm not discrediting! Totally not! I'm seriously doing my best not to get misunderstood, Effort totally earned that OSL title)
Can you imagine Boxer getting such reactions for playing some crappy/cheesy games if he came back and won an OSL? The Effort hate would be understandable if Effort had been a nobody before this run. But this is the same Effort whom CJ used to rely on so heavily (and with justification!) in the PL, who made consistent PR top five last year including an appearance at #1, and who looked like a plausible future SL champion for some time until his slump.
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What a disappointing day,I don't even want to argue JD as 2. Game 3 was so sad to watch
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On May 30 2010 06:28 HnR)hT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 05:31 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Every player gets random hate. You don't have to justify it. Most players who get random hate are either unyieldingly awful or quite good. Though in effort's case I think a lot of it was the horrrrrible tiebreakers and the admittedly kindof-sortof cheesey win in the OSL (I'm not discrediting! Totally not! I'm seriously doing my best not to get misunderstood, Effort totally earned that OSL title) Can you imagine Boxer getting such reactions for playing some crappy/cheesy games if he came back and won an OSL? The Effort hate would be understandable if Effort had been a nobody before this run. But this is the same Effort whom CJ used to rely on so heavily (and with justification!) in the PL, who made consistent PR top five last year including an appearance at #1, and who looked like a plausible future SL champion for some time until his slump.
If Boxer BBS'd Jaedong three times in a row he still wouldn't be a great player.
He would be pretty awesome though. And yes, it's a double standard, but you can not tell me Boxer doesn't earn that double standard. It'd be the same if Oov or Nada did it. Or July, or Chojja. or Yellow, or Nal_rA or Reach. The old timers have earned our respect through a lot more than just being good for a few months last year.
On May 30 2010 06:27 tree.hugger wrote:
And messiahlisk is a fine nickname!
Nah man it's terrible. It's totally SC centric and doesn't say much about him as a player. From it and him being in CJ you just gather that he's a zerg and he's the successor to Savior, which is not a good thing anymore. It just doesn't have the same presence as stuff like Commander, Tyrant, Ultimate Weapon, or Beesu- well Bisu's nicknames suck too(yes yes I know The Revolutionist I just like making fun of him :3).
It has no ring to it. Say that's the guy's nickname to someone who isn't too familiar with SC and they'll go "Messiah what?" Say someone's the ultimate weapon and they get the gist! Like think of all the Bonjwas, Emperor, Tornado, Gorilla/Cheater (funny but menacing!), Maestro etc etc. I want Effort to have a powerful nickname if he's actually going to be a powerful player.
I guess "Messiah" by itself would be okay but that's just putting Effort in Savior's shadow and he deserves more than that, especially given recent times.
A comparison is the "Crown Prince." Name for Fantasy. It just puts him in the shadow of his predecessors and says nothing about him as a player. "Terrorist" is a much better nickname as it has a history and a presence all its own.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 30 2010 06:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:Nah man it's terrible. It's totally SC centric and doesn't say much about him as a player. From it and him being in CJ you just gather that he's a zerg and he's the successor to Savior, which is not a good thing anymore. It just doesn't have the same presence as stuff like Commander, Tyrant, Ultimate Weapon, or Beesu- well Bisu's nicknames suck too. It has no ring to it. Say that's the guy's nickname to someone who isn't too familiar with SC and they'll go "Messiah what?" Say someone's the ultimate weapon and they get the gist! Like think of all the Bonjwas, Emperor, Tornado, Gorilla/Cheater (funny but menacing!), Maestro etc etc. I want Effort to have a powerful nickname if he's actually going to be a powerful player. I guess "Messiah" by itself would be okay but that's just putting Effort in Savior's shadow and he deserves more than that, especially given recent times. A comparison is the "Crown Prince." Name for Fantasy. It just puts him in the shadow of his predecessors and says nothing about him as a player. "Terrorist" is a much better nickname as it has a history and a presence all its own.
Fairly argued. But there are always going to be starcraft-y nicknames, as well as regular nicknames. EffOrt is, first and foremost, The Alien on TL, and Hawkeye in Korea. The messiahlisk was just one of those nicknames that cropped up last year, and it has a nice ring to it. And EffOrt is CJ's messiah/savior more than ever now.
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On May 30 2010 06:27 tree.hugger wrote:
You seem to be assuming that EffOrt was intending to go mass zerglings all along...
No, I'm merely pointing out that such small things shouldn't decide who's #2.
If he had lost that game, and lost the OSL 3-2 no one would argue him to be #2. It's such a small matter to discuss and I'm trying to say that you have to look at the bigger picture.
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On May 30 2010 06:31 n.DieJokes wrote:
What a disappointing day,I don't even want to argue JD as 2. Game 3 was so sad to watch
You do realize that he was SERIOUSLY close to breaking flash's wall right?
He did a build much like effort on matchpoint. Trying to punnish flash for his 14CC. When effort did it, it worked, this time it didn't. It was still very exiting to watch and very close.
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On May 30 2010 06:53 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 06:31 n.DieJokes wrote:
What a disappointing day,I don't even want to argue JD as 2. Game 3 was so sad to watch You do realize that he was SERIOUSLY close to breaking flash's wall right? He did a build much like effort on matchpoint. Trying to punnish flash for his 14CC. When effort did it, it worked, this time it didn't. It was still very exiting to watch and very close.
It was a good build and it put him in a great position but I think it's pretty obvious in retrospect that the correct move would have been to immediately double expand after sniping the rax. At no point could Jaedong definitively break FlaSh and FlaSh's defense was getting exponentially stronger. I guess I just expected the flawless decision making Jaedong usually brings to Bo5's
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On May 29 2010 23:20 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 23:16 d(O.o)a wrote:On May 29 2010 21:39 SuperArc wrote:On May 29 2010 21:29 StylishVODs wrote:On May 29 2010 21:25 SuperArc wrote:On May 29 2010 21:21 StylishVODs wrote:I can't believe how close flash was of winning both leagues. 2-0 leads opening in both finals. Seriously I'd be so happy for him if he'd 3-0'd both finals  Would have been an appropriate end to his dominance this season. He was never close. If he had 3-0ed the OSL the MSL would have turned out way differently. Yes, I don't know if thats true or not. But neither do you. Yeah well I just know I'm right and you're wrong. What's "close" to you? A win and a 2-3 loss from a 2-0 lead. Thats as close as you can get, literally. A win and a 2-3 loss (in that order) would be close. But it was a 2-3 loss and a win. Players like Flash and Jaedong are way stronger after a loss/being underdogs.Imo Flash was way closer to double gold in the last season than this one (game 3 was so back and forth). I am sure I am not the only one who thinks today's final would have turned out way differently had Flash won game 3 of the OSL. This is the stupidest statement I have ever seen, what stylish is saying is that he was close to winning both finals, he DID win vs. jaedong and he ALMOST won against effort by going up 2-0 you could not be more wrong. Do you just hate flash and not want to admit that or something? god it gives me a headache how stupid that argument is. No I am saying Flash would have went to the MSL final in a way differently mentality than he did today. (worse for Flash, better for JD)
I agree with superarc here (can't believe I'm saying this!). Flash even said in his interview that the reason he was so resolute was because he believed that if he lost in both finals he would slump forever. Had Flash not lost in the OSL he may not have come in with the same fire that he did. While nobody can say whether or not JD would have won in this case (I'm guessing no, but who knows) the fact of the matter is that Flash's mental state would have been different.
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On May 30 2010 08:31 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 23:20 SuperArc wrote:On May 29 2010 23:16 d(O.o)a wrote:On May 29 2010 21:39 SuperArc wrote:On May 29 2010 21:29 StylishVODs wrote:On May 29 2010 21:25 SuperArc wrote:On May 29 2010 21:21 StylishVODs wrote:I can't believe how close flash was of winning both leagues. 2-0 leads opening in both finals. Seriously I'd be so happy for him if he'd 3-0'd both finals Would have been an appropriate end to his dominance this season. He was never close. If he had 3-0ed the OSL the MSL would have turned out way differently. Yes, I don't know if thats true or not. But neither do you. Yeah well I just know I'm right and you're wrong. What's "close" to you? A win and a 2-3 loss from a 2-0 lead. Thats as close as you can get, literally. A win and a 2-3 loss (in that order) would be close. But it was a 2-3 loss and a win. Players like Flash and Jaedong are way stronger after a loss/being underdogs.Imo Flash was way closer to double gold in the last season than this one (game 3 was so back and forth). I am sure I am not the only one who thinks today's final would have turned out way differently had Flash won game 3 of the OSL. This is the stupidest statement I have ever seen, what stylish is saying is that he was close to winning both finals, he DID win vs. jaedong and he ALMOST won against effort by going up 2-0 you could not be more wrong. Do you just hate flash and not want to admit that or something? god it gives me a headache how stupid that argument is. No I am saying Flash would have went to the MSL final in a way differently mentality than he did today. (worse for Flash, better for JD) I agree with superarc here (can't believe I'm saying this!). Flash even said in his interview that the reason he was so resolute was because he believed that if he lost in both finals he would slump forever. Had Flash not lost in the OSL he may not have come in with the same fire that he did. While nobody can say whether or not JD would have won in this case (I'm guessing no, but who knows) the fact of the matter is that Flash's mental state would have been different.
The argument was: I said flash was really close to getting both titles here...
Superarc answered: He was never close... (lol whut, tell me what would be close then?) if he had 3-0'd effort the MSL would have been different (implying jaedong would win? because otherwise it wouldn't have mattered and either way it's pure speculation)
I don't see how you can agree with this but at the same time I can't see why I'm still arguing about this.
I'm very tired right now, maybe I don't post clear enough or something... I've got to go to sleep.
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On May 30 2010 05:46 StylishVODs wrote:
If results is everything, Effort should be #2. But it's not everything so he will be #3.
Saying that Jaedong failed to adapt while effort didn't is really unfair.
Effort adapted in one game, game 5, where he went zergling allin vs 14CC. Had it been a map where flash could make a lingproof wall that wouldn't have worked. Jaedong tried something like it with the hydrabreak and he was really close of getting past. This time it didn't work for him.
In game 3 and 4 effort didn't do anything spectacular to "adapt" to the situation rather than changing his build once he found dual proxy rax in the middle.
Jaedong adapted by deveating his build into more greedy to try to get into an advantagous position in the lategame.
Do you even know what the word adapt means? We got a Flash revisionist historian here.
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why does nobody want to talk about why Baby should be #4? we have pages and pages of debate over #2 and nobody wants to debate the apparent tossup for #4?
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Effort #1
Flash #2
Jaedong #3
First of all this is a power rank not an ELO recap. As I have heard some of the admins describe it, this ranking is more weighted towards the relative change in the players performance as well as big events and other high interest games then raw performance.
If so, coming from a team whose star has been discredited and whose team cast into ignominy ,coming back from a 0-2 deficit against one of the (if not the) best players in the world, playing on unfavorable maps and in the statistically most imbalanced and unfair match-up, and winning the most prestigious starleague for the first time in the players career, would almost have to be enough to catapult any player to the number 1 spot, even if that player was not the most technically skilled.
I am not an effort fan, just trying to throw out a semi-unbiased opinion.
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EPT
