EPTOn May 29 2010 19:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On the other hand, I'm much nicer, treb. =)
On the other hand, I'm much nicer, treb. =)
You definitely represent Flash fans well =)
Power Rank 05/03/2010 - Page 41
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
You definitely represent Flash fans well =) | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:52 darktreb wrote: Are you fucking serious? My first post on this page (page 40) detailed exactly why 14cc ends up with less Marines than 1 Rax FE. And TTT didn't say 14cc loses (just a retarded invention in your head), you made that strawman leap. Time and time again you prove that you're the worst poster on TL. On May 29 2010 19:24 TwoToneTerran wrote: No one instantly throws down an acad after rax. It'll come out at a similar time to 1rax CC. You're still getting a rax and CC before acad, just in a different order. You have less marines for a time but obviously produce more later. 2hatch muta always comes in before range is upgraded, and it will come in before your increase production from a good econ kicks in. That's why it raped 14cc previously. Flash prepared for that. I don't know, but rapes usually indicates losing. I guess it's my my lack of knowledge of the English language. Time and time again people prove they are not reading what I am posting? :p I don't know how 14cc fares nowadays against 2hatch muta since it hasnt happened for ages. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
The amazing thing about it was that it wasn't based on luck. So he'll be able to keep doing this. I'll give credit to jaedong for showing some awesome buildorders, even though they didn't work this time. He didn't go for "dirty zerg style" simply because he couldn't and I bet he relies on his skills more than others in lategame. Even though it was abit sad that it ended 3-0, both players had prepared really good builds and wanted the games to be amazing, trying to set up for a good position in lategame. Both players seem to play for their fans which is really awesome. I would rank JD #2 next PR despite this. Simply because the info I got from the games of flash vs effort tells me that Effort could have done nothing to stop flash in this series. With early scout and good timing, 14CC will easily survive 2hatch muta. Because you will put up an Ebay and with all the extra money you can spam turrets. Watch how flash deviated his followup after the 14CC from what information he gathered with his initial SCV. 2hatch -> fast EBay and vessel+marines. 3hatch -> Fast valkyrie and marines. 3hatch no gas -> fast 2 fac into deff mode. | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:44 TwoToneTerran wrote: The best part is that KT vs Oz is on June 1st. Jaedong vs Flash again please. Flash vs Jaedong with Flash forgetting to research stim or something would be hilarious. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On May 29 2010 18:56 TwoToneTerran wrote: Nope, scouting distances are too long. He did scout the three hatch before pool after he 14cc'd which led to his followup timing push. As I said earlier, this is abit wrong. The interview explained it better I guess. Flash only played blind 14CC the first set. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:12 okum wrote: The games should've been reversed  Flash 3-0'ing Effort and Jaedong 3-2'ing Flash. To which I'll ask; why? *** After both finals, I think the PR will look like this: #1:  Flash - Flash is the best player in brood war. You can't really dispute that. That said, he's beatable, and has shown that more than ever this month, posting the most losses he's had in a month in a long time. But that's alright, because I think we're seeing Flash maturing and getting better as he hits a few speed-bumps. You could see the kind of determination and preparation that we see in the very best to play the game. Flash is learning what it's going to take for him to win in the future, with everyone gunning for him, and preparing special strategies. Look, Flash plays a very abusive economic style, and he does it better than anyone else. When you let him get away with it, he's unbeatable. But if you show the same kind of preparation and skill that he does, he's "but a progamer". But he's still damn hard to beat. #2:  Jaedong - The MSL finals was something else, but it should not be allowed to obscure a fantastic month in which Jaedong looked nearly unbeatable. His ZvT has left no doubt that it is the best in BW, 14cc nonwithstanding. His ZvZ destruction of Calm was near-perfect. And with only a total demolition of Flying, it'd be hard to argue that his phenomenal ZvP has slipped. Yes Jaedong was beaten in three games by Flash in the MSL finals. He made a few micro mistakes, but overall gave entertaining games against an opponent who had everything going his way. There's this ridiculous notion that excellent players can just randomly play poorly on any given day. While it's true that performance would naturally fluctuate a little bit, it's ridiculous to say that a player played "badly" during a finals, and that there must've been something wrong. Players lose for a reason. Flash had all the answers. But there needs to be some level of consistency in the PR, and if anyone is entitled to a little leeway, it's Jaedong. That Jaedong will come back from this loss in better form is a given. That Jaedong will contend in both leagues next season is a given. That Jaedong will continue to prevent other teams from sweeping Hwaseung in proleague is a given. Jaedong is still very very good. #3: EffOrt - This month, EffOrt occupied the position that he had begun to build for himself last summer in the proleague finals, as among BW's elite. Nonetheless, a lot of people have said some remarkably silly things about EffOrt recently. That's a shame, because EffOrt's OSL victory had all the hallmarks of a future champion. He showed grit and determination against a superior opponent. He did not break under pressure. He adapted in-game. And he harnessed the little bit of luck that came his way and ran with it. In fact, what many people seemed to have missed about EffOrt's OSL run was how out of character it actually was. EffOrt is the management zerg to Jaedong's aggression. EffOrt races for a hive, and throws up crazy expansions. He attacks with small groups all over the map. He wears down his opponents. Which is why it was so interesting to see EffOrt break out a devastating early/mid-game to complement his superb late game multitasking ability. That's partially a product of CJ's coaching, but it's also a testament to EffOrt's skill as a player. And above all else, this should be alarming to EffOrt's future opponents. Giving this kid main stage experience, and expanding his deadly arsenal of tools can only mean more summer domination from the messiahlisk. The legend of the tiebreaker lives on. #4:  Kal - It was a disappointing month for Kal, despite more solid performances on paper. He was rolled by a suddenly in-form EffOrt, while displaying his trademark skittish PvZ. For a player who has repeatedly been deep in starleagues, to constantly lose to excellent zerg players must be frustrating. Thankfully for Kal, he's got pro-league as his own personal punching bag. He went 7-2 for a typically surging STX, making up for his two losses with subsequent ace match PvZ victories. His harass is excellent, and it perfectly supports his excellent macro and game sense. He's BW's best protoss at the moment, and he's the ace of a playoff bound team. He's still playing excellent starcraft. #5: BaBy - So much for the possibility of a slump after a hard end of April. BaBy has responded excellently after a May 1st loss to Guemchi, with wins over Leta, Bisu, Hyun, and great. That list might've appeared more threatening last month, but it's hard to argue with results, especially when they're pretty much unblemished. BaBy dealt with somewhat recent losses wonderfully, and moved on with his life by beating whoever he faced in proleague. This kid's got some mental toughness to go along with his prodigious starcraft skill. This next month will be BaBy's month to shine or retreat. Wemade is in a potentially precarious position in terms of the playoffs, and their success depends on BaBy. He will be their ace in the playoffs, and they will rise or fall on his back. The rest: Some combination of Stats, Snow, fantasy, fOrGG, and someone else who might've been Leta if he hadn't lost in the offlines. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
You can't criticize everyone but one person unless that one person did something like a lossless month of domination. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
2-0 leads opening in both finals. Seriously I'd be so happy for him if he'd 3-0'd both finals  Would have been an appropriate end to his dominance this season. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On May 29 2010 21:21 StylishVODs wrote: I can't believe how close flash was of winning both leagues. 2-0 leads opening in both finals. Seriously I'd be so happy for him if he'd 3-0'd both finals Would have been an appropriate end to his dominance this season.He was never close. If he had 3-0ed the OSL the MSL would have turned out way differently. Yes, I don't know if thats true or not. But neither do you. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On May 29 2010 21:25 SuperArc wrote: He was never close. If he had 3-0ed the OSL the MSL would have turned out way differently. Yes, I don't know if thats true or not. But neither do you. Yeah well I just know I'm right and you're wrong. What's "close" to you? A win and a 2-3 loss from a 2-0 lead. Thats as close as you can get, literally. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On May 29 2010 21:29 StylishVODs wrote: Yeah well I just know I'm right and you're wrong. What's "close" to you? A win and a 2-3 loss from a 2-0 lead. Thats as close as you can get, literally. A win and a 2-3 loss (in that order) would be close. But it was a 2-3 loss and a win. Players like Flash and Jaedong are way stronger after a loss/being underdogs. Imo Flash was way closer to double gold in the last season than this one (game 3 was so back and forth). I am sure I am not the only one who thinks today's final would have turned out way differently had Flash won game 3 of the OSL. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On May 29 2010 21:39 SuperArc wrote: A win and a 2-3 loss (in that order) would be close. But it was a 2-3 loss and a win. Players like Flash and Jaedong are way stronger after a loss/being underdogs. Imo Flash was way closer to double gold in the last season than this one (game 3 was so back and forth). I am sure I am not the only one who thinks today's final would have turned out way differently had Flash won game 3 of the OSL. Thats just speculation, saying if he had won the third set instead of losing it everything would have changed... I don't think so. It's possible but very unlikely and at the end of the day we have the results in. He won one and lose one 2-3 I think thats pretty close. Whatever man I have to go, if you don't think he was close to winning both finals I don't know how to argue this one... ciao. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Good thing Oov has no failures. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On May 29 2010 21:45 TwoToneTerran wrote: I like how flash is repeating the mistakes of past terran bonjwas. Nada was the only terran to ever lose an MSL Final before Flash. Boxer was the only terran (and player) to be denied a golden mouse before Flash. Good thing Oov has no failures. oov's record of 5-0 in finals makes him a real monster Especially with Flash's and JD's "failure" this season. | ||
Jonvvv
Norway1530 Posts
On May 29 2010 21:45 TwoToneTerran wrote: I like how flash is repeating the mistakes of past terran bonjwas. Nada was the only terran to ever lose an MSL Final before Flash. Boxer was the only terran (and player) to be denied a golden mouse before Flash. Good thing Oov has no failures. July was denied his Golden Mouse in Shinhan 2005 OSL against iloveoov, but he won it later so guess it did not matter | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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neotoss
China217 Posts
On May 29 2010 21:52 SuperArc wrote: oov's record of 5-0 in finals makes him a real monster Especially with Flash's and JD's "failure" this season. Does oov never lose a final ? Maybe the only person who does not lose in final ? | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On May 29 2010 22:36 neotoss wrote: Does oov never lose a final ? Maybe the only person who does not lose in final ? Yeah oov never lost a final. oov: 5-0 Nada: 6-4 (TEN SL finals, insane record) JD: 5-2 savior: 4-2 Flash: 3-2 Boxer: 3-4 yellow: 0-5 Stork: 1-3 July: 3-2 Bisu: 3-1 Nal_Ra: 2-2 Looking at this I don't even know how I can be mad. Thanks to Effort and Flash Nada still kept his records (six gold and MSL/OSL win in the same season) | ||
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Jonvvv
Norway1530 Posts
On May 29 2010 22:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: My bad, then take out the "And player" part. Still the only terran! Yeah Maybe Flash will copy Boxer in getting denied the Golden Mouse four times aswell?  | ||
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