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On April 28 2010 04:25 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:24 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:20 Half wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + None of that is micro bro. Nobody is suggesting SC2 lacks tactical depth, we are suggest it lacks micro depth. Mobility and cliff abuse most certainly involve micro. Besides, the topic seems to be about creating a competitive, fun atmosphere where pros can distinguish themselves and "wow" other players. That's why scouting is in there too, because it's difficult to simultaneously focus on three different activities, and pros will certainly be better at this than amateurs. ... Is clicking a unit up a cliff more micro intensive then clicking a unit upwards not onto a cliff?
Have you even played the game? Here's a little explanation for noobs. In the middle of a pitched battle it takes AT LEAST AS MUCH FOCUS to take the high ground and/or attack the flank of an enemy while also trying to keep track of the central front to the battle as it does to hit patrol+click over here to hit and run on harassment. It may take less micro for reapers and colossi than for vikings, and less for vikings than for medivacs and warp prisms, but it takes some micro regardless, and your ability to do so has a HUGE impact on the outcome of said battles. Your dismissal of the skill it takes to do so says less about SC2 and more about your capabilities as a player. Please, go back to Brood War.
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On April 28 2010 04:29 snpnx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:15 NihiloZero wrote:
"Mommy, why doesn't the person with the best micro and the highest APM always win?"
"Well, Timmy, he just played the wrong strategy and eff'd up his macro." Fixed your post. Better players will win over those that are not as skilled, be it SC2, SC or WC3. Maybe the skillset needed is defined differently now, but I still think people should give the game some time until they start bashing it.
QFT
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I think it's a very solid write-up!
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On April 28 2010 04:30 killias2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:25 Half wrote:On April 28 2010 04:24 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:20 Half wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + None of that is micro bro. Nobody is suggesting SC2 lacks tactical depth, we are suggest it lacks micro depth. Mobility and cliff abuse most certainly involve micro. Besides, the topic seems to be about creating a competitive, fun atmosphere where pros can distinguish themselves and "wow" other players. That's why scouting is in there too, because it's difficult to simultaneously focus on three different activities, and pros will certainly be better at this than amateurs. ... Is clicking a unit up a cliff more micro intensive then clicking a unit upwards not onto a cliff? Have you even played the game? Here's a little explanation for noobs. In the middle of a pitched battle it takes AT LEAST AS MUCH FOCUS to take the high ground and/or attack the flank of an enemy while also trying to keep track of the central front to the battle as it does to hit patrol+click over here to hit and run on harassment. It may take less micro for reapers and colossi than for vikings, and less for vikings than for medivacs and warp prisms, but it takes some micro regardless, and your ability to do so has a HUGE impact on the outcome of said battles. Your dismissal of the skill it takes to do so says less about SC2 and more about your capabilities as a player. Please, go back to Brood War.
So... do you agree now that we need moving/gliding shot back in SC2?
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On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ +
Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really?
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On April 28 2010 04:27 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:25 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:24 Jayme wrote:On April 28 2010 04:01 Fallen wrote:On April 28 2010 03:53 killias2 wrote:
I think this article has some good points, but, overall, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yeah, some elements of micro have been lost, but others have been added in. I honestly don't know how you can make the argument that SC2 does not involve micro and/or does not allow pros to distinguish themselves from amateurs. These are critical points to your viewpoint, and you don't come anywhere close to proving them. Hell, as someone who plays fairly frequently (Gold) and watches a lot of replays, I just don't believe either of these points are true. Better players can differentiate themselves in plenty of ways. There are hundreds of important uses for micro in terms of harassment, pitched battles, and scouting, and I just don't see how someone who PLAYS this game can't see that.
I do think there are some problems with SC2 as things stand. Hard counters are far too prevalent and powerful. I think this is at the heart of most of the controversies. Still, even though you imply the opposite ("Starcraft had a one size fits all damage system. Now how the hell did Blizzard balance it despite not being able to give units arbitrary bonus damage values towards specific armor types?"), Starcraft actually DID have a unit type/damage type system. Why do you think bats were GREAT against Zealots and lings and absolutely awful at everything else? The difference between SC1 and 2 here is that SC2 has beefed up the system, and, IMO, probably a bit too much. This explains why buildings are too easy to destroy, thus rendering defense difficult at best (any unit with + vs. armored will rip through buildings like tissue paper), why Terran ground is essentially worthless against Protoss ground in mid-game (name a Terran unit that isn't hard countered by a major component of a mid-game Protoss army...), and why certain early cheese is so effective (fast reaper.. Jesus, WAY too effective). It also gives off the "rock, paper, scissors" feel that makes games feel slightly more luck-based than SC1 did.
Nonetheless, these problems can be dealt with without your favored mechanic, and, in fact, this mechanic does virtually nothing to address any of these problems. How would better micro-ed air lead to any changes in the balance? Phoenix may be better against Muta... but Muta will be better against virtually everything else. I also not convinced that a well micro-ed Muta couldn't respond to a well micro-ed Phoenix. Even within the contours of the game AS IS, there are solutions to these problems. First and foremost, SCOUT! Scouting is a HUGE part of this game. In fact, due to the hard counters, its quite possibly more important than in the first one. I understand that scouting while creating armies, expanding, macroing, and harassing is difficult.. but that's why you need skill. Along with all the classics of micro (skills, cliff abuse, utilizing opportunities for mobility, harassing, etc.), scouting must also use up valuable APM.
If you can't handle it, please return to Brood War. I'm sure you'll have more fun, and I won't have to read another 10 page piece on how Browder doesn't care about the fans and how SC2 is all about n00bs and bright colors. Well said! I can't believe this thread is getting so much replies. I'm glad its a different game, I wouldnt like to play "brood war with better graphics". They kept enough of the first game to get the feel of it and they did a marvelous job if you ask me. I wanted new mechanics, new units and totally different strategies and tactics. Thats what I got and im very happy with the results that I've got my hands on. I'm sure some poeple will come up with "brood war with better graphics" custom maps and all you whiners and BW fanbois can go play that! I'm also glad lalush wasnt on the balance team, what a horrible POS we would be playing right now lol. So what you're saying is that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about right? When I play SC2 I feel like I'm playing CnC Are you sure you have SC2 installed? You might want to check on that. I'm pretty sure I have SC2 installed. You also might want to not sound so condescending in your posts because it just makes you look like a jackass.
Now that you have Starcraft 2 installed, maybe you can understand my comments. ;-)
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On April 28 2010 04:30 killias2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:25 Half wrote:On April 28 2010 04:24 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:20 Half wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + None of that is micro bro. Nobody is suggesting SC2 lacks tactical depth, we are suggest it lacks micro depth. Mobility and cliff abuse most certainly involve micro. Besides, the topic seems to be about creating a competitive, fun atmosphere where pros can distinguish themselves and "wow" other players. That's why scouting is in there too, because it's difficult to simultaneously focus on three different activities, and pros will certainly be better at this than amateurs. ... Is clicking a unit up a cliff more micro intensive then clicking a unit upwards not onto a cliff? Have you even played the game? Here's a little explanation for noobs. In the middle of a pitched battle it takes AT LEAST AS MUCH FOCUS to take the high ground and/or attack the flank of an enemy while also trying to keep track of the central front to the battle as it does to hit patrol+click over here to hit and run on harassment. It may take less micro for reapers and colossi than for vikings, and less for vikings than for medivacs and warp prisms, but it takes some micro regardless, and your ability to do so has a HUGE impact on the outcome of said battles. Your dismissal of the skill it takes to do so says less about SC2 and more about your capabilities as a player. Please, go back to Brood War.
You act as if this is a feature unique to only SC2.
Here is a little hint for you. Taking the high ground and flanking happened in BW just as often and required more focus there because you could only group 12 units together. Zerg particularly relied on this to beat Terrans.
I don't know what you're going on about. BW had the same damn thing in it. You're back to square one now.
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On April 28 2010 02:27 Garrl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 02:25 Bibdy wrote:On April 28 2010 02:11 Garrl wrote:On April 28 2010 02:09 MarGeta wrote:On April 28 2010 01:56 TheAntZ wrote:
Holy shit, huge surprise guys, low post users disagreeing with the OP. And then we get a bunch of "why discriminate just cuz my post count is low OMG T_T"
this is why
Heres basically every low post user post in this thread
"Yes BW was great, so what, you actually want ANOTHER great game? wtf is wrong with you. go play bw, thats already great, and let us keep our fun game with its low skill ceiling allowing mechanically challenged players feel like they're worth something
Oh also, stop wanting stuff from BW to be in SC2, its an entirely different game! So what if BW was the best strategy game ever, and thus WARRANTS some copying, as it'd assure success? SO? I AM IMMUNE TO YOUR LOGIC I WANT A NEW GAME
oh also i'd like the game to be entirely about strategies, and i'd like to ignore the fact that theres only so much to be done before you reach a certain number of optimal strategies in this day and age of RTS evolution. If you want to deny that, please warn me so that I may place my fingers in my ears, and shout as loudly as possible" yes, all the people with low amounts of posts such as myself should be ashamed of ourselves for not spamming the forums enough with QQ written with caps during half of the post. On the other hand, most low-post-count users have never even played BW, yet are commenting on it having played the SC2 beta for 2 days. I think SC2 just requires a different kind of skill than SC1. Because of the damage-bonus and armour system I think a lot more decision-making has to be done on the fly to determine if your unit composition is capable of taking on your opponent's. Since this air-unit moving shot micro thing isn't a factor, its more important to focus on your macro and get the right army composition in the right place at the right time. Which is a skill in itself. Except there was a HUGE focus on macro, being much harder in BW (that is to say, no MBS, FE builds popular); all the things you stated had more of an emphasis in SC2 were prominent in SC1 and were so much harder, take, for example, macro. In SC1, you'd have about 8-10 barracks, all of them having to be constantly in production, along with constant SCV production. It was much more satisfying and rewarding knowing you could hit f2 and build 8 marines in a second, whereas in SC2 it's just hit the hotkey, aaaaaaaa. Also, you say determining if your unit combination can take on your opponents: isn't that mostly based around luck? You forget scouting for a second, oh look, your opponent had a hidden starport tech, and now has a million billion cloaked banshees in your base. GG. If you're relying on luck to win your battles, you've got a pretty big, fundamental "doing it wrong" problem. Right now I look at a blob of Marauders, look at my own Gateway army and determine, do I: A) Have enough Zealot tanks to survive long enough to keep them off my ranged units? B) Have enough ranged units to kill them quick enough, relative to the number of Zealots I have and Marauders he has. C) Where do I want to fight? Can I use Force Field to swing the fight in my favour by either stopping their ability to kite, or split his army in half? D) Is he teching something else in the meantime and trying to bait me into an Immortal army with all these Marauders? All these questions and decisions go on in my brain before the fight even starts, let alone during it. And the answer to every one is important. I'm not saying I'm relying on luck, rather, there's no way to alieviate a bad decision (that is to say, with good micro, or fighting on the highground), the hard countering system reinforces that.
I wouldn't agree with that. How well I place my force fields and how quickly is a factor. Where we meet and what terrain is nearby is a factor. How good he is at kiting and focus-firing simultaneously is a factor. Microing my Zealots not to overextend my ranged line so they can't fire, is a factor. How well we both macro during the fight to reinforce is a factor. How good he is at timing his stop command when his attacks come off cooldown is a factor (the move/shoot ratio)
I've seen some pretty cool stuff in Korean replays with Zerglings versus Zealots where the Zealots take a quick swing, move back, swing, move back, really making use of their longer attack cooldown compared to Zerglings.
I think there's a lot of places people can use micro their advantage. They're just not as obvious, or not the same tools they used to be.
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On April 28 2010 04:33 EchOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really?
I'm implying that cliff abuse and scouting are more important in SC2 than in Brood War. Please revisit prior posts for more information. Mobility is meant to refer to the MUCH higher prevalence of mobilty in SC2 vs. SC/BW. I was tempted to add another -/+ there, but I think the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction than the cliff abuse or scouting distinctions. Name units other than dropships/shuttles/overlords that are truly mobile in the SC2 sense (reapers, vikings, warp prism/pylon, nydus worm, colossi). Aside from arbiters, which come in the final tech tier and which were relatively rare, easy to take out, and more useful for other abilities, I don't think there is much remaining.
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Nice thread Lalush, need to read all of it tomorrow .I feel like Sc2 needs more über cool micro omfg moments if it's gonna be funny and intresting to watch the pros play.
psst. tell Iceman to give me a key in the rakaka contest ,
psst2. tengil@rakaka.
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On April 28 2010 04:37 killias2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:33 EchOne wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really? I'm implying that cliff abuse and scouting are more important in SC2 than in Brood War. Please revisit prior posts for more information. Mobility is meant to refer to the MUCH higher prevalence of mobilty in SC2 vs. SC/BW. I was tempted to add another -/+ there, but I think the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction than the cliff abuse or scouting distinctions. Name units other than dropships/shuttles/overlords that are truly mobile in the SC2 sense (reapers, vikings, warp prism/pylon, nydus worm, colossi). Aside from arbiters, which come in the final tech tier and which were relatively rare, easy to take out, and more useful for other abilities, I don't think there is much remaining.
Great! So what can you say about the lack of gliding/moving shot micro in SC2?
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On April 28 2010 04:38 Angryhorse wrote:
Nice thread Lalush, need to read all of it tomorrow .I feel like Sc2 needs more über cool micro omfg moments if it's gonna be funny and intresting to watch the pros play.
psst. tell Iceman to give me a key in the rakaka contest ,
psst2. tengil@rakaka.
oh my. if sc2 had micro intensive units like sc:bw
it would be complete
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On April 28 2010 04:39 lolaloc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:37 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:33 EchOne wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really? I'm implying that cliff abuse and scouting are more important in SC2 than in Brood War. Please revisit prior posts for more information. Mobility is meant to refer to the MUCH higher prevalence of mobilty in SC2 vs. SC/BW. I was tempted to add another -/+ there, but I think the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction than the cliff abuse or scouting distinctions. Name units other than dropships/shuttles/overlords that are truly mobile in the SC2 sense (reapers, vikings, warp prism/pylon, nydus worm, colossi). Aside from arbiters, which come in the final tech tier and which were relatively rare, easy to take out, and more useful for other abilities, I don't think there is much remaining. Great! So what can you say about the lack of gliding/moving shot micro in SC2?
For the last time: there are other aspects of the game that require actions and focus, so the loss of this mechanic does not transfer into any of the repercussions everyone in this thread is flapping about. Pros can still "wow" us, pros will still be able to demonstrate their skills, skills still matter more luck and/or build order, and the game is still fun to play. I never questioned the loss of the mechanic. In fact, I would actually like to see it return. What I question is the rest of the apocalyptic feel I get from this thread. This mechanic is currently missing. I'd like to see it return. However, the lack of it does not break the game, by any stretch of the imagination.
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On April 28 2010 04:37 killias2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:33 EchOne wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really? I'm implying that cliff abuse and scouting are more important in SC2 than in Brood War. Please revisit prior posts for more information. Mobility is meant to refer to the MUCH higher prevalence of mobilty in SC2 vs. SC/BW. I was tempted to add another -/+ there, but I think the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction than the cliff abuse or scouting distinctions. Name units other than dropships/shuttles/overlords that are truly mobile in the SC2 sense (reapers, vikings, warp prism/pylon, nydus worm, colossi). Aside from arbiters, which come in the final tech tier and which were relatively rare, easy to take out, and more useful for other abilities, I don't think there is much remaining.
Wow, do we have a troll here or what!
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This is like complaining New Super Mario didn't have the feather that makes you fly.
Having said that, I'm far more worried about the fact that my probes just get pushed out of the way when I try to block than I am about a moving shot. A realistic physics engine is well and good but they should remember this is a space-based RTS with a variety of aliens. Realism isn't exactly on my list of top needs for a Starcraft-type game.
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On April 28 2010 04:43 killias2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:39 lolaloc wrote:On April 28 2010 04:37 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:33 EchOne wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really? I'm implying that cliff abuse and scouting are more important in SC2 than in Brood War. Please revisit prior posts for more information. Mobility is meant to refer to the MUCH higher prevalence of mobilty in SC2 vs. SC/BW. I was tempted to add another -/+ there, but I think the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction than the cliff abuse or scouting distinctions. Name units other than dropships/shuttles/overlords that are truly mobile in the SC2 sense (reapers, vikings, warp prism/pylon, nydus worm, colossi). Aside from arbiters, which come in the final tech tier and which were relatively rare, easy to take out, and more useful for other abilities, I don't think there is much remaining. Great! So what can you say about the lack of gliding/moving shot micro in SC2? In fact, I would actually like to see it return. What I question is the rest of the apocalyptic feel I get from this thread. This mechanic is currently missing. I'd like to see it return. However, the lack of it does not break the game, by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes, it doesn't break the game if it's missing. But it adds so much to the game if it's there.
On April 28 2010 04:46 Dragonsven wrote:
This is like complaining New Super Mario didn't have the feather that makes you fly.
Incorrect. Complaining that the feather is missing in the next Super Mario game is like complaining that the Lurker is not in SC2.
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On April 28 2010 04:37 killias2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:33 EchOne wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really? I'm implying that cliff abuse and scouting are more important in SC2 than in Brood War. Please revisit prior posts for more information. Mobility is meant to refer to the MUCH higher prevalence of mobilty in SC2 vs. SC/BW. I was tempted to add another -/+ there, but I think the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction than the cliff abuse or scouting distinctions. Name units other than dropships/shuttles/overlords that are truly mobile in the SC2 sense (reapers, vikings, warp prism/pylon, nydus worm, colossi). Aside from arbiters, which come in the final tech tier and which were relatively rare, easy to take out, and more useful for other abilities, I don't think there is much remaining.
So on mobility at least, you assert that the distinction between its prevalence as a significant game factor is as stark as that of moving shot between the two games. Correct? That's what I get from "the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction."
SC2B doesn't even have moving shot, so it is a complete non-factor. The distinction is between something present and something absent. You already cite BW as sporting mere units whose ostensible roles are to leverage mobility. Clearly mobility is present in both.
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Better players will win over those that are not as skilled, be it SC2, SC or WC3. Maybe the skillset needed is defined differently now, but I still think people should give the game some time until they start bashing it.
The problem with this attitude is the question: at what point does the community say, "Okay, we've given them enough time, it's not working"? After 3 months of beta? After beta is finished? After release? After 3 content patches? After first expansion, second expansion, 12 years? That makes no sense. I see many people that claim that the game will change as "new micro tactics" are found, or that the community will develop new strategies. Problem with this theory is that, the community has shown extensively that we easily find the most abusable and effective strategies extremely fast. Witness: the overpowered mothership, where within the first week of beta, a mothership rush can already win the game. Or the four warpgate strategy in pvp, which Blizzard described as something they had not expected at all. The scv - marine all in, which was nigh-undefendable beyond forge cannon play. One rax marauder expansion. Mass roach zvz. 4 warpgate pvt. The list goes on and on, and Blizzard failed to see any of these tactics emerge in their internal testing. In this day and age, the community is light years beyond what the original Broodwar beta community showed.
For those who say, "have faith in Blizzard, it's their game," why should we have that stance? Historically, Blizzard lucked out on Broodwar, and failed miserably at any semblance of balance in WC3. For the entirety of Rain of Chaos, there was exactly one effective strategy per race: tri-sanctum casters for human, tri-lodge casters for orc, tri-crypt ghoul for undead, tri-lore for night elf. Blizzard threw several content patches to try to fight this, but nothing they did worked. Instead, they introduced more imbalances such as ancient of war massing. One international event, ESWC (correct me if I'm wrong), saw professional players of every race switch to night elf just to mass AOWs, simply because it was a strategy that was incredibly hard to battle with conventional means. In their expansion, Blizzard introduced slightly more diversity. Still, the majority of a conventional human army was casters, orcs used blademaster/raider + support, night elves kept building ancient of lores, and undead added destroyers, and switched to crypt fiends. If you followed the scene at all, you would realize how quickly these strategies were developed, and how little they changed over the years.
Please, stop saying "give the game 12 years like Broodwar". We, as a community, should be targetting what we feel to be fundamental problems within the game, and trying to change them while we still have the chance.
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On April 28 2010 04:48 lolaloc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 04:43 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:39 lolaloc wrote:On April 28 2010 04:37 killias2 wrote:On April 28 2010 04:33 EchOne wrote:On April 28 2010 04:15 killias2 wrote:
SC1 SC2B
Kite + +
Unit pull + +
Mvng Shot + -
Gldng Sht + -
Cliff Abuse -/+ +
Mobility - +
Scouting -/+ + Did this guy just imply that maybe there wasn't cliff abuse and scouting in BW? That there was absolutely no mobility in BW? Really? I'm implying that cliff abuse and scouting are more important in SC2 than in Brood War. Please revisit prior posts for more information. Mobility is meant to refer to the MUCH higher prevalence of mobilty in SC2 vs. SC/BW. I was tempted to add another -/+ there, but I think the difference between the two in terms of mobility is more in line with the moving shot distinction than the cliff abuse or scouting distinctions. Name units other than dropships/shuttles/overlords that are truly mobile in the SC2 sense (reapers, vikings, warp prism/pylon, nydus worm, colossi). Aside from arbiters, which come in the final tech tier and which were relatively rare, easy to take out, and more useful for other abilities, I don't think there is much remaining. Great! So what can you say about the lack of gliding/moving shot micro in SC2? In fact, I would actually like to see it return. What I question is the rest of the apocalyptic feel I get from this thread. This mechanic is currently missing. I'd like to see it return. However, the lack of it does not break the game, by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, it doesn't break the game if it's missing. But it adds so much to the game if it's there.
I guess, at the end of the day, the real difference depends on how much this mechanic is valued. I consider the mechanic useful, but I do not consider it central to the RTS experience. Regardless of your wording, its clear that this is more important to you. If so, I hope Blizz looks at this, but I think you're underselling what the game has to offer aside from this potential mechanic.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2010 04:45 Squeegy wrote:
Wow, do we have a troll here or what!
Or you could attempt to explain why he's wrong instead of just dismissing him because you're too lazy to.
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EPT
