World at War Mafia - Page 51
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
On the other note one thing that concerns me about NK nuke is that it EXTENDS the day. This is significant because it is beneficial for Mafia to get shorter days, which allows them to control the death in Town via NK. Instead this anonymous nuke has extended the day for four more hours. I think this suggests few possibilities: 1) NK is the third party. 2) Mafia wants the day to extend; as in, it is beneficial for Mafia to have Townie launch more nukes during the day 1. I think second possibility is more likely since the third party with such aggressive ability yet independent of Mafia can only be SK, and I doubt SK would exercise his ability so early when his goal (death of all players) are so long-term. This means we should DEFINITELY be careful when launching nukes, as it IS possible for Mafia to benefit by random-nuke launching Townies unlike they themselves seem to believe. 1- Elimination of Town nuke and anti-nuke power. 2- Town friendly nuke kill. 3- More chaos and panic. This is why I am suddenly more reluctant to nuke tree.hugger because if tree.hugger is Mafia, he would have gotten chance to launch one more free nuke by surviving through day 2. Of course, we still need to lynch him via anti-nuke policy but I think nuke should be better spent on other possible suspects if they must be launched. | ||
Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:00 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: The way I see it LMNOP is so obviously pro town that the NK nukes are 99% sure to come from mafia. Given how Ace loves retarded roles, its entirely possible that NK has no affiliation. Either way, LMNOP was railing decently hard against XeliN which means XeliN is probably being set up. | ||
Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:04 L wrote: Given how Ace loves retarded roles, its entirely possible that NK has no affiliation. Either way, LMNOP was railing decently hard against XeliN which means XeliN is probably being set up. This is true. I should have said 99% not town. It's possible it's a trick to get us to go after XeLiN, though i haven't seen him be particularly helpful anyway. regardless, i'm pretty sure we have to lynch tree hugger tomorrow? | ||
Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On March 27 2010 11:51 L wrote: Her being the deciding factor on where town wants to place anti-nukes seems to be a bit of a town policy issue, no? I don't think we as a town had even decided whether to use anti nukes or not as the issue was split with some people supporting your death while others had wanted you to live. I think the fact that it was pretty much down to the wire for your save also shows this. Now, Verse is going to shoot a nuke if she does follow up with her claim, and we're back to the same situation, just down an antinuke which is necessary late game. On top of that, with only one anti-nuke a day, BM can't save you after that. Can you really claim that it was in the town decision to save you if you don't get saved after that second one? Although I'm glad that you're alive since you don't really offend me or anything and I do believe that despite some cases of self-preservation, you do make good points, you have to also see the situation that we're down an antinuke and we still have the possibility that you'll die from Verse/anybody else willing to fire a nuke. I can only hope your power is strong enough to offset the loss of the antinuke. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
What is this madness? | ||
L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:06 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: This is true. I should have said 99% not town. It's possible it's a trick to get us to go after XeLiN, though i haven't seen him be particularly helpful anyway. regardless, i'm pretty sure we have to lynch tree hugger tomorrow? We should kill him before he can nuke again. If he is indeed mafia, there would be nothing stopping him from attempting to rub another out. Worst case; he absorbs anti-nukes. I'm not entirely certain that he's mafia given how ballsy his move was, but the only thing I'm sure of is that we shouldn't be pussies about counter-nuking people who don't agree with our anti-nuke position. If we aren't firm on that point, we simply can't dissuade nukes. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:06 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: This is true. I should have said 99% not town. It's possible it's a trick to get us to go after XeLiN, though i haven't seen him be particularly helpful anyway. regardless, i'm pretty sure we have to lynch tree hugger tomorrow? Wrong, we have to lynch North Korea. Also, since my nuke didn't land, I won't be voting for myself tomorrow. I regret that a little, because I was honest, and I wanted people to know my sincerity, but oh well. This is the game that keeps on giving. | ||
Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:13 tree.hugger wrote: Wrong, we have to lynch North Korea. Also, since my nuke didn't land, I won't be voting for myself tomorrow. I regret that a little, because I was honest, and I wanted people to know my sincerity, but oh well. This is the game that keeps on giving. Yes, let's lynch NK! So, who are we lynching again? On March 27 2010 12:10 L wrote: We should kill him before he can nuke again. If he is indeed mafia, there would be nothing stopping him from attempting to rub another out. Worst case; he absorbs anti-nukes. I'm not entirely certain that he's mafia given how ballsy his move was, but the only thing I'm sure of is that we shouldn't be pussies about counter-nuking people who don't agree with our anti-nuke position. If we aren't firm on that point, we simply can't dissuade nukes. Clarification: by "him", I assume you mean tree.hugger? | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:15 Elemenope wrote: Yes, let's lynch NK! So, who are we lynching again? Well yeah, therein lies the problem. Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. | ||
L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:08 Elemenope wrote: I don't think we as a town had even decided whether to use anti nukes or not as the issue was split with some people supporting your death while others had wanted you to live. I think the fact that it was pretty much down to the wire for your save also shows this. Now, Verse is going to shoot a nuke if she does follow up with her claim, and we're back to the same situation, just down an antinuke which is necessary late game. On top of that, with only one anti-nuke a day, BM can't save you after that. Can you really claim that it was in the town decision to save you if you don't get saved after that second one? Although I'm glad that you're alive since you don't really offend me or anything and I do believe that despite some cases of self-preservation, you do make good points, you have to also see the situation that we're down an antinuke and we still have the possibility that you'll die from Verse/anybody else willing to fire a nuke. I can only hope your power is strong enough to offset the loss of the antinuke. Well, you're looking at this from the perspective of a game without information; Anti-nuking now instead of later means we have more information prior to mafia being able to start their kill machine going. Given the method of lynching is by majority vote, it means that more information early provides us with more analysis for lynches during a time in which the volume of mafia input is minimal. Additionally, yeah, the town had spoken pretty clearly. The only people who presented a strong opposition to the save as far as I can tell are tree.hugger, Versatile, Iaaan and Fishball. I'm probably missing someone here, but look at that list: 3 of the members there are people who initially wanted to get rid of me during my ban duration which was an obvious anti-town move. By contrast, players who are relatively confirmed or confirmed, spazz and opz, for instance, were against letting shit hit. If someone throws a subsequent nuke in the face of the entire town saying "no more nukes" (except to kill people nuking, imo) its a pretty clear sign of mafia intention. So if Versatile IS town, actually going through with her threat now might suck up another anti-nuke, and will result in her death either way. If she's mafia, she doesn't really give a shit. She's very high on a huge spectrum of players' radars already. Either way, I still don't understand this "anti-nukes are better later!!!" statement. They're good to stop town directed hits always. The more people we keep alive who are town oriented, the stronger the town direction during lynches is. The more townies who die, the more nukes, anti-nukes, and abilities we lose. | ||
L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:17 tree.hugger wrote: Well yeah, therein lies the problem. Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. Oh, okay. I'll trust the off the handle nuker who just admitted to having more nukes. Cool. | ||
XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:10 L wrote: We should kill him before he can nuke again. If he is indeed mafia, there would be nothing stopping him from attempting to rub another out. Worst case; he absorbs anti-nukes. I'm not entirely certain that he's mafia given how ballsy his move was, but the only thing I'm sure of is that we shouldn't be pussies about counter-nuking people who don't agree with our anti-nuke position. If we aren't firm on that point, we simply can't dissuade nukes. "Excuse me" was in reference mainly to this, should have quoted. | ||
L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:24 XeliN wrote: Excuse me? I didn't even fire a nuke, and if I had I assure you I would have done it publically, i've already stated Elemenope as someone suspicious I wouldn't bother doing it in secret. Uh, I'm talking about tree.hugger. You know, like I've been doing the entire time. Bit too defensive there, cowboy. Calm it down. | ||
haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:24 XeliN wrote: "Excuse me" was in reference mainly to this, should have quoted. I think L was referring to tree.hugger, or am I missing something. | ||
Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:17 tree.hugger wrote: Well yeah, therein lies the problem. Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. A remark we can't exactly trust, especially given the situation that transpired. On March 27 2010 12:18 L wrote: Well, you're looking at this from the perspective of a game without information; Anti-nuking now instead of later means we have more information prior to mafia being able to start their kill machine going. Given the method of lynching is by majority vote, it means that more information early provides us with more analysis for lynches during a time in which the volume of mafia input is minimal. Additionally, yeah, the town had spoken pretty clearly. The only people who presented a strong opposition to the save as far as I can tell are tree.hugger, Versatile, Iaaan and Fishball. I'm probably missing someone here, but look at that list: 3 of the members there are people who initially wanted to get rid of me during my ban duration which was an obvious anti-town move. By contrast, players who are relatively confirmed or confirmed, spazz and opz, for instance, were against letting shit hit. If someone throws a subsequent nuke in the face of the entire town saying "no more nukes" (except to kill people nuking, imo) its a pretty clear sign of mafia intention. So if Versatile IS town, actually going through with her threat now might suck up another anti-nuke, and will result in her death either way. If she's mafia, she doesn't really give a shit. She's very high on a huge spectrum of players' radars already. Either way, I still don't understand this "anti-nukes are better later!!!" statement. They're good to stop town directed hits always. The more people we keep alive who are town oriented, the stronger the town direction during lynches is. The more townies who die, the more nukes, anti-nukes, and abilities we lose. The only thing I don't understand is the last part. The other 3 paragraphs make sense except I don't necessarily agree that she's high on player's suspect's list, but the last part is that the counter to the 'antinukes are better later' statement is that we should always use these to stop town-directed hits. The issue with this, which I'm sure you know, is that it's very hard to prove that it's town-directed, especially on day one, unless you'd like to enlighten my feeble mind about this. | ||
XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:29 XeliN wrote: Oh I see, skimmed the quotes before yours and saw me mentioned like 3 times so figured you were jumping on Elemenopes suspicions. Since you're around here, perhaps you'd like to explain? The guy's only reasonable contribution is the suggestion of insta-lynch for someone who nukes unsupported. He then goes into an argument with fishball over a hypothetical situation or wifom or something. He puts a vote on Abenson, citing that inactivity is something that can't be allowed. He then abstains his vote, and later puts it on me, reasoning - because I advocated lynching Abenson to see if OpZ was in fact telling the truth or not. I later stated this was because at the time, all we had was OpZ's word on the matter, Abenson hadn't confirmed. Abenson later comes in, votes, goes off, then comes back later confirming. As such, I stated that I'm perfectly fine with the claim that OpZ and Abenson are in fact Masons and I have cleared them of suspicion for now. Keep in mind that he himself suspected OpZ for being scum based on language OpZ used, and then retracted his suspicion when OpZ made the roleclaim. I made similar retractions, only after the other party (which is pretty fucking important in making a Mason claim), responded as such. He votes RoL, then later removes his vote, even though he was the one who advocated lynching of people who fire nukes. Really? He hasn't contributed anything of late since these more recent nukes which makes me highly suspicious of him. I'd at least like a basis of reasoning behind your actions, nothing more. | ||
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