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On March 27 2010 12:28 Elemenope wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 12:17 tree.hugger wrote:On March 27 2010 12:15 Elemenope wrote:On March 27 2010 12:13 tree.hugger wrote:On March 27 2010 12:06 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:On March 27 2010 12:04 L wrote:On March 27 2010 12:00 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
The way I see it LMNOP is so obviously pro town that the NK nukes are 99% sure to come from mafia. Given how Ace loves retarded roles, its entirely possible that NK has no affiliation. Either way, LMNOP was railing decently hard against XeliN which means XeliN is probably being set up. This is true. I should have said 99% not town. It's possible it's a trick to get us to go after XeLiN, though i haven't seen him be particularly helpful anyway. regardless, i'm pretty sure we have to lynch tree hugger tomorrow? Wrong, we have to lynch North Korea. Also, since my nuke didn't land, I won't be voting for myself tomorrow. I regret that a little, because I was honest, and I wanted people to know my sincerity, but oh well. This is the game that keeps on giving. Yes, let's lynch NK! So, who are we lynching again? Well yeah, therein lies the problem. Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. A remark we can't exactly trust, especially given the situation that transpired. Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 12:18 L wrote:
Well, you're looking at this from the perspective of a game without information; Anti-nuking now instead of later means we have more information prior to mafia being able to start their kill machine going. Given the method of lynching is by majority vote, it means that more information early provides us with more analysis for lynches during a time in which the volume of mafia input is minimal.
Additionally, yeah, the town had spoken pretty clearly. The only people who presented a strong opposition to the save as far as I can tell are tree.hugger, Versatile, Iaaan and Fishball. I'm probably missing someone here, but look at that list: 3 of the members there are people who initially wanted to get rid of me during my ban duration which was an obvious anti-town move. By contrast, players who are relatively confirmed or confirmed, spazz and opz, for instance, were against letting shit hit.
If someone throws a subsequent nuke in the face of the entire town saying "no more nukes" (except to kill people nuking, imo) its a pretty clear sign of mafia intention. So if Versatile IS town, actually going through with her threat now might suck up another anti-nuke, and will result in her death either way. If she's mafia, she doesn't really give a shit. She's very high on a huge spectrum of players' radars already.
Either way, I still don't understand this "anti-nukes are better later!!!" statement. They're good to stop town directed hits always. The more people we keep alive who are town oriented, the stronger the town direction during lynches is. The more townies who die, the more nukes, anti-nukes, and abilities we lose. The only thing I don't understand is the last part. The other 3 paragraphs make sense except I don't necessarily agree that she's high on player's suspect's list, but the last part is that the counter to the 'antinukes are better later' statement is that we should always use these to stop town-directed hits. The issue with this, which I'm sure you know, is that it's very hard to prove that it's town-directed, especially on day one, unless you'd like to enlighten my feeble mind about this.
Well, I know I'm town, so maybe that was the piece of information that was not explicitly stated.
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Updated the last post to show that the day ends 3:30 KST March28th so no one gets confused.
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What exactly are you asking me? you've listed my actions as well as my reasons why in your own post. Just to humour you i'll try to explain my thought process whilst I was making them.
Voted OpZ initially, I had gone through the thread and had decided to vote for the person I considered most suspicious on a one time readthrough just to get things going, thought his post seemed suspicious and placed on him. Change my vote to Abenson after someone (I think it was you) highlighted that he had made 1 post total and that it included a lynch vote, this seemed both mafiaesque and unacceptable so switched my vote to him.
I then decided to change my vote and place it on you, you argued quite strongly for lynching one of either OpZ and Abenson and it seemed to me plainly obvious that they were telling the truth. As you don't seem like a dumb person I thought it odd that you would argue for their lynch and claim "they haven't been proven" (My reasoning was yes they hadn't been proven yet it was far far far more likely they were telling the truth)
Then I vote for RoL because of his inactivity and not because of his Nuking, I later remove the vote as it seems clear that RoL is not mafia as not one person in the thread had attempted to defend him or try to get a lynch on someone else going. If he was mafia they would have had to defend him so didn't want to waste it voting for someone who seemed obviously townie.
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and yes, in case you all are wondering, i am india.
i am vanilla green for the most part.
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Believe me about my reasoning or not, but here it is:
L and LMNOP to me are both very pro-town this game. L has his own personal way of helping the town when he is green/blue, which is to put heavy FoS onto one person. That's all hes been doing this game. He has been going after tree.hugger much the same way that he went after me when I made two stupid crucial voteswings that looked like they resulted in both an innocent death, and a botched election. In my defense, I wasn't sure if he was red last game, as I wasn't all that familiar with his style when hes pro-town because the only game I had played with him previously to that one he was red. I do not really have a read on many other people, and I don't know if I even really trust LMNOP as much as I trust L. I could be wrong, I've been wrong in the past. I've posted a list of 5 names where only 1/5 were correct (Malongo), but many reputable players have made a similar mistake (showtime, for instance). I'm not saying I'm perfect, but given my read of L being pro-town, and the fact that I could die before getting to use that in the night-period as I mistakenly and stupidly let my possession of my weaponry be known to everyone.
Should I sit back and let a fellow town-member die? No. Would I if it was someone who was not contributing to the thread? Sure. That being said, it is obvious that I feel like L is contributing his heart and soul to catching whoever is conspiring behind the scenes. He has put more FoS this game than some of you have put throughout your entire mafia careers. If you really feel like he is red because of my anti-nuking for him, lynch me, and offer your own head when I don't flip red, because I won't.
"He who saves one life saves the world entire"
I have saved and preserved the world as it is, and this was my goal. I have done my part to guarantee that the ToD will not have risen from the improper actions that have taken place. You all should consider trying to stop nuking so we can save the world.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:18 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 12:08 Elemenope wrote:On March 27 2010 11:51 L wrote:On March 27 2010 11:48 Elemenope wrote:On March 27 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 27 2010 11:44 Elemenope wrote:On March 27 2010 11:42 Bill Murray wrote:
LMNOP is hugely pro-town with his walls of text, but noone believes L is except me
he is playing the exact same way he did last game, and if he is red, hurray, if he is not, whatever
im going to save him
if you all don't like it, or want to lynch me, go ahead. i'll withhold my nukes if i'm lynched I hope you realize that verse said she would nuke, I believe. You're wasting antinukes if that's the case. You realize she's not afk, just talked in the other game, and ignored the entire NK/time running down conversation going on here, right? Intentional lurking and a hugely anti-town threat to nuke. Why would you let her of all people dictate town policy on something that was already agreed upon? How does any of what I said relate to her dictating town policy? Her being the deciding factor on where town wants to place anti-nukes seems to be a bit of a town policy issue, no? I don't think we as a town had even decided whether to use anti nukes or not as the issue was split with some people supporting your death while others had wanted you to live. I think the fact that it was pretty much down to the wire for your save also shows this. Now, Verse is going to shoot a nuke if she does follow up with her claim, and we're back to the same situation, just down an antinuke which is necessary late game. On top of that, with only one anti-nuke a day, BM can't save you after that. Can you really claim that it was in the town decision to save you if you don't get saved after that second one? Although I'm glad that you're alive since you don't really offend me or anything and I do believe that despite some cases of self-preservation, you do make good points, you have to also see the situation that we're down an antinuke and we still have the possibility that you'll die from Verse/anybody else willing to fire a nuke. I can only hope your power is strong enough to offset the loss of the antinuke. Well, you're looking at this from the perspective of a game without information; Anti-nuking now instead of later means we have more information prior to mafia being able to start their kill machine going. Given the method of lynching is by majority vote, it means that more information early provides us with more analysis for lynches during a time in which the volume of mafia input is minimal. Additionally, yeah, the town had spoken pretty clearly. The only people who presented a strong opposition to the save as far as I can tell are tree.hugger, Versatile, Iaaan and Fishball. I'm probably missing someone here, but look at that list: 3 of the members there are people who initially wanted to get rid of me during my ban duration which was an obvious anti-town move. By contrast, players who are relatively confirmed or confirmed, spazz and opz, for instance, were against letting shit hit. If someone throws a subsequent nuke in the face of the entire town saying "no more nukes" (except to kill people nuking, imo) its a pretty clear sign of mafia intention. So if Versatile IS town, actually going through with her threat now might suck up another anti-nuke, and will result in her death either way. If she's mafia, she doesn't really give a shit. She's very high on a huge spectrum of players' radars already. Either way, I still don't understand this "anti-nukes are better later!!!" statement. They're good to stop town directed hits always. The more people we keep alive who are town oriented, the stronger the town direction during lynches is. The more townies who die, the more nukes, anti-nukes, and abilities we lose.
This is actually pretty well argued.
I think what this hinges on is exactly how many anti-nukes the town has. Which is a number that, of course, we don't know. I feel that Japan likely has at least one more, given the cavalier attitude with which they threw that first one out. I don't know if Bill Murray has others, although he's admitted to having at least a nuke. Beyond that, we don't know that much, and JSpazz's death removes another source of anti-nukes.
People with anti-nukes would be smart to keep at least one in reserve.
On March 27 2010 12:28 Elemenope wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 12:17 tree.hugger wrote:On March 27 2010 12:15 Elemenope wrote:On March 27 2010 12:13 tree.hugger wrote:On March 27 2010 12:06 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:On March 27 2010 12:04 L wrote:On March 27 2010 12:00 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
The way I see it LMNOP is so obviously pro town that the NK nukes are 99% sure to come from mafia. Given how Ace loves retarded roles, its entirely possible that NK has no affiliation. Either way, LMNOP was railing decently hard against XeliN which means XeliN is probably being set up. This is true. I should have said 99% not town. It's possible it's a trick to get us to go after XeLiN, though i haven't seen him be particularly helpful anyway. regardless, i'm pretty sure we have to lynch tree hugger tomorrow? Wrong, we have to lynch North Korea. Also, since my nuke didn't land, I won't be voting for myself tomorrow. I regret that a little, because I was honest, and I wanted people to know my sincerity, but oh well. This is the game that keeps on giving. Yes, let's lynch NK! So, who are we lynching again? Well yeah, therein lies the problem. Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. A remark we can't exactly trust, especially given the situation that transpired.
That's not true, you can trust what I say. I haven't said one dishonest thing this game—no matter what you think about the 'quality' of my comments. When I said I'd vote for myself if you flipped green, I meant it. When I say I won't be nuking in the near future, I mean it.
Argue against my decisions and ideas, but there's no benefit for me in deceiving anybody.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 27 2010 12:58 Bill Murray wrote:
Believe me about my reasoning or not, but here it is:
L and LMNOP to me are both very pro-town this game. L has his own personal way of helping the town when he is green/blue, which is to put heavy FoS onto one person. That's all hes been doing this game. He has been going after tree.hugger much the same way that he went after me when I made two stupid crucial voteswings that looked like they resulted in both an innocent death, and a botched election. In my defense, I wasn't sure if he was red last game, as I wasn't all that familiar with his style when hes pro-town because the only game I had played with him previously to that one he was red. I do not really have a read on many other people, and I don't know if I even really trust LMNOP as much as I trust L. I could be wrong, I've been wrong in the past. I've posted a list of 5 names where only 1/5 were correct (Malongo), but many reputable players have made a similar mistake (showtime, for instance). I'm not saying I'm perfect, but given my read of L being pro-town, and the fact that I could die before getting to use that in the night-period as I mistakenly and stupidly let my possession of my weaponry be known to everyone.
Should I sit back and let a fellow town-member die? No. Would I if it was someone who was not contributing to the thread? Sure. That being said, it is obvious that I feel like L is contributing his heart and soul to catching whoever is conspiring behind the scenes. He has put more FoS this game than some of you have put throughout your entire mafia careers. If you really feel like he is red because of my anti-nuking for him, lynch me, and offer your own head when I don't flip red, because I won't.
"He who saves one life saves the world entire"
I have saved and preserved the world as it is, and this was my goal. I have done my part to guarantee that the ToD will not have risen from the improper actions that have taken place. You all should consider trying to stop nuking so we can save the world.
I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with your decision, BM, I certainly see where you're coming from. Honestly, the minute you claimed anti-nukes, your options were pretty limited. I wish you would've been a little more subtle about it, but hey, what's done is done.
You also missed my grand plan, which was to broker a peace between you and L, by having you save his life. Yes, everyone, that was the plan all along!
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haven't completely caught up on the thread, but don't say i didn't warn you, BM.
##nuke: L
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ah. now that i have.
nothing more to add. except don't use anti-nukes on non-confirmed players. it will be in vain.
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And herein we discover mafia players or players who are so intensely bad that I will replace my prior target of bill murray with them in future games.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On March 27 2010 04:37 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 04:36 Bill Murray wrote:
The longer this goes on, the more I begin to trust L's read. Versatile, why so scummy? Bill Murray, why so ugly?
Rofl.
On March 27 2010 04:45 Bill Murray wrote:
if by ugly you mean ruggedly handsome i'll accept that
Rofl.
Man I like these nukes.
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On March 27 2010 13:50 flamewheel91 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 04:37 Versatile wrote:On March 27 2010 04:36 Bill Murray wrote:
The longer this goes on, the more I begin to trust L's read. Versatile, why so scummy? Bill Murray, why so ugly? Rofl. Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 04:45 Bill Murray wrote:
if by ugly you mean ruggedly handsome i'll accept that Rofl. Man I like these nukes.
I'd imagine this game is 3 times as hilarious to watch if you know the role list.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 27 2010 13:12 tree.hugger wrote:
You also missed my grand plan, which was to broker a peace between you and L, by having you save his life. Yes, everyone, that was the plan all along!
On March 27 2010 13:14 Bill Murray wrote:
hahahaha
On March 27 2010 13:49 L wrote:
And herein we discover mafia players or players who are so intensely bad that I will replace my prior target of bill murray with them in future games.
+ Show Spoiler +You're all very welcome. Is my Nobel in the mail?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On March 27 2010 13:52 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 13:50 flamewheel91 wrote:On March 27 2010 04:37 Versatile wrote:On March 27 2010 04:36 Bill Murray wrote:
The longer this goes on, the more I begin to trust L's read. Versatile, why so scummy? Bill Murray, why so ugly? Rofl. On March 27 2010 04:45 Bill Murray wrote:
if by ugly you mean ruggedly handsome i'll accept that Rofl. Man I like these nukes. I'd imagine this game is 3 times as hilarious to watch if you know the role list.
Three? Try like... hmmm my irrational mind says seven. Or maybe even 5root2.
On March 27 2010 14:03 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 13:12 tree.hugger wrote:
You also missed my grand plan, which was to broker a peace between you and L, by having you save his life. Yes, everyone, that was the plan all along!
Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 13:49 L wrote:
And herein we discover mafia players or players who are so intensely bad that I will replace my prior target of bill murray with them in future games. + Show Spoiler +You're all very welcome. Is my Nobel in the mail?
I'm sending it now, it'll be there in a few days.
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i don't even know what to say
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Interesting...so we are to lynch tree.hugger tomorrow...and nuke the piss outta versatile? Mind if I have the honors?
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Also...I think I'm going to PM someone and try and get Abenson replaced...
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#Nuke versatile
don't say I didn't warn you.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/Stormalong/peace-on-earth.jpg)
