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On November 30 2024 02:45 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2024 10:54 Pentarp wrote:On November 26 2024 23:24 Cactus66 wrote:On November 26 2024 22:40 Moonerz wrote:
Would have liked a more targeted TvP ghost nerf. Like emps can't effect the same unit twice within a certain period or whatever.
Zergs crying about their t3 units getting countered by ghost. Sorry it's not a free win when you get your t3 units.
What else in the t army matches up well against late game zerg units? It's just a consequence of making that one unit so critical to terran. Siege tanks/libs owned by vipers. You're not alone, but this is such a terrible Zerg v ghost take. It counters every zerg t3 unit. No zerg unit counters it. There is not another example of this in the game. It wasn't balanced AND it's terrible game design. Zerg is doing fine right-now. Stop whining. Look at all the highlight games. Most of them are Terran games. This indicates good game design since Terran games are found to be engaging and exciting by the community. There are imperfections, of course. But you cannot overcorrect them by killing the only viable strategy that Terrans have in late-game TvZ. Might as well go back to Broodlord/Infestor era then. Enjoy watching those games. Better to just uninstall the game and don't care anymore, cause you will free so much brain power and storage you will feel alive again That's what those stupid things did to me anyway
You know, I almost get the feeling you don't particularly like this patch or this game. But I'm not entirely sure, you haven't been really clear about it.
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On November 30 2024 03:59 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2024 02:45 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:On November 29 2024 10:54 Pentarp wrote:On November 26 2024 23:24 Cactus66 wrote:On November 26 2024 22:40 Moonerz wrote:
Would have liked a more targeted TvP ghost nerf. Like emps can't effect the same unit twice within a certain period or whatever.
Zergs crying about their t3 units getting countered by ghost. Sorry it's not a free win when you get your t3 units.
What else in the t army matches up well against late game zerg units? It's just a consequence of making that one unit so critical to terran. Siege tanks/libs owned by vipers. You're not alone, but this is such a terrible Zerg v ghost take. It counters every zerg t3 unit. No zerg unit counters it. There is not another example of this in the game. It wasn't balanced AND it's terrible game design. Zerg is doing fine right-now. Stop whining. Look at all the highlight games. Most of them are Terran games. This indicates good game design since Terran games are found to be engaging and exciting by the community. There are imperfections, of course. But you cannot overcorrect them by killing the only viable strategy that Terrans have in late-game TvZ. Might as well go back to Broodlord/Infestor era then. Enjoy watching those games. Better to just uninstall the game and don't care anymore, cause you will free so much brain power and storage you will feel alive again That's what those stupid things did to me anyway You know, I almost get the feeling you don't particularly like this patch or this game. But I'm not entirely sure, you haven't been really clear about it.
I mean yeah, I am very clear I don't like this game, let alone the patch.
I tried to play for 4 days again after 10+ years I have not been playing this, the disgusting feeling sinks in really fast after 200+ games in 4 days. It sucks really bad.
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My biggest complain as a terran nerd. I am okay playing against zerg for the most part, if I don't win I can attribute to I played bad.
Vs protoss as an old player, I cannot see the mini map, I am right eye dominant , for anyone who play FPS, you know what that means, I need my minimap on the right. I am perfectly fine playing Dota2 ...... the mini map is not an issue, but SC2? HELL I am 36 years old, I am not a youngester who just sees everything ... like .... in the old days.
Protoss have way too many AOE I need to dodge many many time it relies on mini map....
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![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/8871fd92ae8b249aa72601383569c93c.png)
It is clear, the godd*mn Protoss race has been made much too powerful with this patch. Only 4-5 Terrans currently making it out of the 3 Groups that have played so far, it is clear that Protoss needs some nerfs right away. I suggest we do the immortal nerf to them all, 10% slower attack speed on all units.
Sidenote: TvP was the problem, so the balance bojz made Protoss stronger against Zerg. It just makes sense, because Terran has just consistently been doing so poorly. MakeTerranGreatAgain!
User was warned for this post
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fits with the statements that there are some strong bias terran in the balance council.
but to be fair, the group results could have been similar in other patches as well. especially places 1-3 in each group are very close..
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Northern Ireland23272 Posts
Hey I’m not a fan of all the changes but given the field is HSC really one to make judgements on?
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Just commentary on the very very unhappy Terrans, who have been signaling the Ghost and other changes making Terran weak. Then we get the first tourney and nothing has changed. I think the casters who have been commenting (PiG and Winter etc.) "get" it. If you want this game to survive, it won't be through seeing more TvT and TvZ only for wins in the tourneys. And tbh, Zerg needs a buff vs Protoss if anything, so this weird patch which helps Protoss clearly in PvZ, and not so much in PvT is just a headscratcher.
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It's literally one game of Showtime losing 2-1 to Spirit. You need to chill.
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not sure which matchup has interesting game at all...
I really miss the like of Has, but he knows there's not fun to be had so he ain't playing anymore.
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On December 01 2024 13:28 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
not sure which matchup has interesting game at all...
I really miss the like of Has, but he knows there's not fun to be had so he ain't playing anymore.
Has played his last official match two weeks ago, taking a map off of Showtime, so I assume he is still somewhat in practice.
As a friendly advice, that I sometimes tend to need aswell: If the game is so not-fun and rage-inducing to you, maybe just don't engage in it, including this forum? Because I really don't get the impulse of "I hate all of this, so naturally I have to go to a place where people enjoy this and tell them I hate it - repeatedly."
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On December 01 2024 13:48 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2024 13:28 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
not sure which matchup has interesting game at all...
I really miss the like of Has, but he knows there's not fun to be had so he ain't playing anymore. Has played his last official match two weeks ago, taking a map off of Showtime, so I assume he is still somewhat in practice. As a friendly advice, that I sometimes tend to need aswell: If the game is so not-fun and rage-inducing to you, maybe just don't engage in it, including this forum? Because I really don't get the impulse of "I hate all of this, so naturally I have to go to a place where people enjoy this and tell them I hate it - repeatedly."
I am only posting cause I played 4 ~ 5 days of SC2 in past 2 weeks. Normally I am not here.
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On December 01 2024 14:25 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2024 13:48 Balnazza wrote:On December 01 2024 13:28 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
not sure which matchup has interesting game at all...
I really miss the like of Has, but he knows there's not fun to be had so he ain't playing anymore. Has played his last official match two weeks ago, taking a map off of Showtime, so I assume he is still somewhat in practice. As a friendly advice, that I sometimes tend to need aswell: If the game is so not-fun and rage-inducing to you, maybe just don't engage in it, including this forum? Because I really don't get the impulse of "I hate all of this, so naturally I have to go to a place where people enjoy this and tell them I hate it - repeatedly." I am only posting cause I played 4 ~ 5 days of SC2 in past 2 weeks. Normally I am not here.
Whiiiich you clearly hated, bringing me back to my point...?
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On December 01 2024 15:18 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2024 14:25 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:On December 01 2024 13:48 Balnazza wrote:On December 01 2024 13:28 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
not sure which matchup has interesting game at all...
I really miss the like of Has, but he knows there's not fun to be had so he ain't playing anymore. Has played his last official match two weeks ago, taking a map off of Showtime, so I assume he is still somewhat in practice. As a friendly advice, that I sometimes tend to need aswell: If the game is so not-fun and rage-inducing to you, maybe just don't engage in it, including this forum? Because I really don't get the impulse of "I hate all of this, so naturally I have to go to a place where people enjoy this and tell them I hate it - repeatedly." I am only posting cause I played 4 ~ 5 days of SC2 in past 2 weeks. Normally I am not here. Whiiiich you clearly hated, bringing me back to my point...?
I am done replying to you anyway, this is an open forum people can express their opinion about the game state and such. If you want to have an echo chamber that's not my problem.
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Speaking of late game, last night at HSC, Serral said that terran's late game is definitely weaker now.
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Cyclones is really fast while he can do a ton of damage. His speed is actually the same than marines or marauders when they stimed, which is good. Unfortunetly, a lot of units can be denied too easily in the start of the game even if TvT can looks good. A small tweak should be done to reduce his speed while lock on is activated
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one step too much with that cyclon.
every terran plays cyclons nowadays.
you need to out perform in order to beat lesser players.
very frustrating. hope it will change
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On December 01 2024 23:15 Vision_ wrote:
Cyclones is really fast while he can do a ton of damage. His speed is actually the same than marines or marauders when they stimed, which is good. Unfortunetly, a lot of units can be denied too easily in the start of the game even if TvT can looks good. A small tweak should be done to reduce his speed while lock on is activated
No thanks, I'd rather see the Cyclone removed entirely as it does way more than simply being a role unit as it initially was supposed to be. If they can tweak it so you can get 1-2 for very specific purposes like repelling Oracle harass in TvP without straight-up nullifying it altogether, that'd be somewhat fine, I guess, but repeated changes/tweaks have shown that it's apparently very hard to make the unit fit just right into Terran's arsenal.
Watching Cyclones dominating the battlefield regardless of matchup was simply dumb to watch, and I say this as a mech Terran.
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On December 02 2024 21:13 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2024 23:15 Vision_ wrote:
Cyclones is really fast while he can do a ton of damage. His speed is actually the same than marines or marauders when they stimed, which is good. Unfortunetly, a lot of units can be denied too easily in the start of the game even if TvT can looks good. A small tweak should be done to reduce his speed while lock on is activated No thanks, I'd rather see the Cyclone removed entirely as it does way more than simply being a role unit as it initially was supposed to be. If they can tweak it so you can get 1-2 for very specific purposes like repelling Oracle harass in TvP without straight-up nullifying it altogether, that'd be somewhat fine, I guess, but repeated changes/tweaks have shown that it's apparently very hard to make the unit fit just right into Terran's arsenal. Watching Cyclones dominating the battlefield regardless of matchup was simply dumb to watch, and I say this as a mech Terran.
The problem is Terran isn t designed for being played with versatile units while zerg are.
In that regards and it s my opinion, if you want to keep the mind of terran, units must fit a role, that s how terran unit works with a really good synergy while zerg could assume to push with two different types of units only, for example.
I haven t been accurate on the amount of speed reduction but i think your comments is pretty accurate since cyclone looks to please a majority of players even if i dislike the fact that thors looks less interesting, i would have prefered a mix between thors and cyclone. Then if a 3D professionnal is free at this moment i would be happy if he can design the transformation from thor to cyclone
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On December 03 2024 00:53 Vision_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2024 21:13 Creager wrote:On December 01 2024 23:15 Vision_ wrote:
Cyclones is really fast while he can do a ton of damage. His speed is actually the same than marines or marauders when they stimed, which is good. Unfortunetly, a lot of units can be denied too easily in the start of the game even if TvT can looks good. A small tweak should be done to reduce his speed while lock on is activated No thanks, I'd rather see the Cyclone removed entirely as it does way more than simply being a role unit as it initially was supposed to be. If they can tweak it so you can get 1-2 for very specific purposes like repelling Oracle harass in TvP without straight-up nullifying it altogether, that'd be somewhat fine, I guess, but repeated changes/tweaks have shown that it's apparently very hard to make the unit fit just right into Terran's arsenal. Watching Cyclones dominating the battlefield regardless of matchup was simply dumb to watch, and I say this as a mech Terran. The problem is Terran isn t designed for being played with versatile units while zerg are. In that regards and it s my opinion, if you want to keep the mind of terran, units must fit a role, that s how terran unit works with a really good synergy while zerg could assume to push with two different types of units for example. I haven t been accurate on the amount of speed reduction but i think your comments is pretty accurate since cyclone looks to please a majority of players even if i dislike the fact that thors looks less interesting, i would have prefered a mix between thors and cyclone. Then if a 3D professionnal is free at this moment i would be happy if he can design the transformation between thor to cyclone
The problem with the Thor IMHO is that the core unit design for it goes way back to Wings of Liberty. During that era things were generally slower, Medivacs didn't have boost, Mutas were slower and needed to be magic boxed, Banshees did not have a speed upgrade etc..
Another aspect is that having trade-off's for units was a more common design goal back then than what can be said about the latest unit additions, so when the unit speed creep happened over the years, the Thor just kinda faded out of a role to fulfill over time, but hasn't been properly replaced by the Cyclone, either, as the Cyclone just too impactful all around, I think.
On a side note, I think the sentiment about Terran having a role-focussed philosophy mainly stems from mech, as we also have the Marine, which is the most versatile unit in the game that has no true counters if utilised correctly.
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To me the good solution is to force lock on to target only air units, then the dps on ground can be discussed, but yes the unit shouldn t have been an "all around" unit.
If you seek the missile course, then you would probably see missile going throught buildings while they are supposed to be higher in the sky
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EPT
