EPT5.0.14 Patch Goes Live (Nov 25) - Page 2
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Mizenhauer
United States1969 Posts
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baldgye
United Kingdom1114 Posts
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tigera6
3516 Posts
On November 27 2024 00:33 Mizenhauer wrote: It's beyond amazing that after 8 years no one has any idea what the cylcone is supposed to do. The lock on concept sucks, the auto shooting version sucks, and all the tinkering hasn't made it a more interesting unit. The unit is awful design wise and there is no way to make them interesting while being playable (not op and not awful). The game would just be better off without it. The issue with the Cyclone is that it requires a freaking Tech Lab to build one-at-a-time, so why the hell should anyone build it instead of a Tank? And for Air-control? Viking is just superior in every single way as well. | ||
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Starcloud
138 Posts
On November 26 2024 22:40 Moonerz wrote: Would have liked a more targeted TvP ghost nerf. Like emps can't effect the same unit twice within a certain period or whatever. Zergs crying about their t3 units getting countered by ghost. Sorry it's not a free win when you get your t3 units. What else in the t army matches up well against late game zerg units? It's just a consequence of making that one unit so critical to terran. Siege tanks/libs owned by vipers. Yeah, like one unit countering 20 units and can be easily massed is really fun and interesting concept.... I feel like this whole ghost vs. everybody- issue is being handled wrong all this time. The process of addressing the issue should be something like this imo; 1. What units does ghost counter ? What is the units role in the whole terran roster ? 2. Should it counter them ? Is it fair ? Does it reward active playstyle ? Is ghost too easily to mass end-game ? Is it exciting gameplay ? What areas of the game does this one unit cover ? 3. If it doesnt reward active gameplay or is not good and fair counter to some unit(s), what should be changed to address the issue ? 4. If we make the change to address the issue, what does it mean for terran ? Does terran need something in return to not change the balance too much ? What are the options to make it possible ? 5. Make adjustments to other terran units/values etc. if neccessary. 6. Test things out. If its not working, start from point one. 7. Repeat until we get the results wanted. This whole process needs to have feedback from the pros, especially the suggestions for changes- part. The testing phase should be long enough (maybe 1 month+), unless its soon obvious that the changes dont work. And whats the most important part; Although the pros are crucial in planning and testing the changes, we should have INDEPENDENT balance council team, that doesnt have any active players on it to make the final decicions. Every pro has his/her opinions biased towards own races agenda, so it would be very important to have people that dont have that issue to make the final decisions on the patches. | ||
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Creager
Germany1965 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12583 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 26 2024 13:07 Blitzball04 wrote: Wombat patch goes live. Let see how it does now Fingers crossed, for obvious reasons! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 27 2024 00:33 Mizenhauer wrote: It's beyond amazing that after 8 years no one has any idea what the cylcone is supposed to do. The lock on concept sucks, the auto shooting version sucks, and all the tinkering hasn't made it a more interesting unit. The unit is awful design wise and there is no way to make them interesting while being playable (not op and not awful). The game would just be better off without it. I’ve said it forever, it’s ostensibly to fill out mech holes. But it excels when it’s kiting back from enemies. Tanks excel when they’re stationary and zoning. At a fundamental design level the two don’t synergise at all well, and no matter what tweaks they have tried they don’t solve that core issue. They bounce between too powerful and obnoxious, or pretty bad without much of a niche | ||
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Athenau
590 Posts
On November 27 2024 03:58 WombaT wrote: I’ve said it forever, it’s ostensibly to fill out mech holes. But it excels when it’s kiting back from enemies. Tanks excel when they’re stationary and zoning. At a fundamental design level the two don’t synergise at all well, and no matter what tweaks they have tried they don’t solve that core issue. They bounce between too powerful and obnoxious, or pretty bad without much of a niche Cyclones are meant to generate value by picking stuff off for free and retreating back to the safety of your tank line. The intended synergy is obvious, it's just that cyclones make you way too fragile in the early game, and bio does the same job without introducing the same vulnerabilities. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1969 Posts
On November 27 2024 03:58 WombaT wrote: I’ve said it forever, it’s ostensibly to fill out mech holes. But it excels when it’s kiting back from enemies. Tanks excel when they’re stationary and zoning. At a fundamental design level the two don’t synergise at all well, and no matter what tweaks they have tried they don’t solve that core issue. They bounce between too powerful and obnoxious, or pretty bad without much of a niche Units that run away when fighting are awful and should not exist. You want units that force interactions, not ones that disincentive engaging in larger scale conflicts. | ||
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Moonerz
United States469 Posts
Cyclones can't be too tanky and they also can't do too much damage. So you're left with this busted unit that excels in certain situations but in others requires too much micro for the value you're getting. Goliaths still fit better than cyclones lol but I understand the overlap between goliaths and thors | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 27 2024 05:03 Moonerz wrote: I agree with miz. Even in the best use case of cyclones in battle mech, the interaction was pretty trash. Lock on and run away use hellions to kill anything faster than the cyclone. Cyclones can't be too tanky and they also can't do too much damage. So you're left with this busted unit that excels in certain situations but in others requires too much micro for the value you're getting. Goliaths still fit better than cyclones lol but I understand the overlap between goliaths and thors My personal pet theory is Blizzard have long known that properly filling out the mech repertoire’s holes would make it completely broken and so have thus never done it fully. They’ll throw the odd bone because it’s a common demand, but deliberately have left some of those gaps. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 27 2024 04:19 Mizenhauer wrote: Units that run away when fighting are awful and should not exist. You want units that force interactions, not ones that disincentive engaging in larger scale conflicts. You leave my beloved Phoenix alone! Although even I hate any mass Phoenix meta I don’t think it’s inherently broken, but this implementation sucks. I bloody hate the Cyclone as much as I love me Phoenix I think part of what makes Phoenixes a fine skirmish and harass unit is having to manually cast graviton beam. Whereas with Cyclones, you just get in range and the ability triggers. Perhaps it still would suck, I would have liked to have seen some experimentation in making it more potent but require lock on to be manually cast. Even then it could still suck but it’s been the only idea suggestion I’ve had/or stolen (can’t remember) that I think might work | ||
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sidasf
108 Posts
Battery overcharge removal means Protoss is pigeonholed into stargate every single game vs zerg, boring loss of build diversity. It will also make holding 2 base all ins much harder for everyone who ain't a GM. Not a fan. | ||
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Vision_
877 Posts
Developer Comment: The Mag-Field Accelerator damage change attempts to make the unit slightly more well rounded, as many of Terran's Factory units are too specialized into certain roles. The Lock On prioritizing air units will help when engaging armies such as Mutalisks and Zerglings, preventing all the Lock Ons from being wasted on Zerglings and the mech army being overwhelmed in the air. How do you translate ? They added cyclone because they want to make the unit well rounded (their famous expression...) It s all the contrary of how SC2 has been created, numerous and various units with extreme difference, with weakness and strength. Cyclone 5.0.11 Mag-Field Accelerator damage bonus changed from +20 vs armored to +10 vs all. Lock On will now prioritize Air Units that threaten the Cyclone (Air units with an anti ground attack, spellcasters) Lock On Auto-Cast range increased from 7 to 7.5 (Similar to the change from Heart of the Swarm to Legacy of the Void with weapon 'Scan Range', the auto cast range is increased so attack-moved cyclones do not move below the actual Cast Range of Lock On before it acquires a target. The ability is still cast at 7 range) | ||
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JJH777
United States4420 Posts
On November 26 2024 11:13 luxon wrote: even as the game's pro circuit is over, (foreigner) terrans refuse to budge an inch to let protoss players win the 200 bucks left in the circuit. lol. my king clement refusing to let anyone else pocket rotti's $100 ❤️ The ghost nerf doesn't even help Toss. It's a TvZ nerf that Zergs are using PvT to justify. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States758 Posts
Huston Mayday mayday, we got a problem Huston. Cyclone is currently bugged it does 25% more dmg.................... So apparently all you gotta do is mass Cyclone and you win vs Zerg/Protoss with no brain and strategy A move for the win | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States758 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33708 Posts
On November 27 2024 11:26 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: This will be hilarious to watch WTF we will see for homestory cup. I think it would be a real sad one. Eh, having watched a lot of the PTR tourneys, the patch didn't actually change much a the mid-high pro level. In fact, I'd say the game became slightly more interesting for viewers cause energy overcharge allows Protoss a bit more diversity of strategy (I didn't see any signs that removing battery overcharge was making certain all-ins OP). The good players will remain good, and Serral or Clem will prolly win HSC  | ||
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Vision_
877 Posts
On November 27 2024 10:59 JJH777 wrote: The ghost nerf doesn't even help Toss. It's a TvZ nerf that Zergs are using PvT to justify. Yes community is reacting with a bit of delay but it s true. | ||
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