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On December 14 2023 03:05 chrisolo wrote:
Holy shit, some people in this thread are dumb....
Lol all the people attacking ZZZero in this thread are absolutely insane and need to get down on earth. Like for real...
Was it a horrible idea to let Rapid into the event? Yes, for sure. No doubt in that and I am sure ZZZero is well aware of this by now.
Does this really warrant the flak towards ZZZero though? For fucks sake no. And anybody saying dumb shit like "BSL is amateur tournament", "not even top 3" or some other stupid ass statement, need to wake the fuck up...
The most important thing to say is: Thank you ZZZero for bringing us such a nice tournament and keeping foreign BW alive. Please do not invite ppl like Rapid anymore! But thank you anyway for all the hard work and effort you put into our mutual hobby, even quitting your day job to keep supporting Broodwar.
Foreign BW was alive before BSL and it will be alive after it.
Do you contest the activity numbers?
Taking a radical life decision doesn't mean it s right or even good, but it isnt my place to judge that,only ZZZero knows.
Leadership comes with responsibility, now it may not be fair and I would tend to agree, but it is the way it is. This doesn't invalidate everything Zzzero has done, but it puts a stain now on this tournament and the future until a statement can remove it, at least partially.
Doing good things doesn't shield you from your mistakes. You own up to them and then live with the consequences.
Btw we are all in charge of our respective tournaments, it is our decision and right to decide where and how we spend our time for BW. We don't want to spend it on BSL until this is fixed. ZZZero is entirely free to ignore it and live with that if he decides so.
Every decision carries consequences, this is one of them.
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United States9936 Posts
On December 14 2023 03:05 chrisolo wrote:
Holy shit, some people in this thread are dumb....
Lol all the people attacking ZZZero in this thread are absolutely insane and need to get down on earth. Like for real...
Was it a horrible idea to let Rapid into the event? Yes, for sure. No doubt in that and I am sure ZZZero is well aware of this by now.
Does this really warrant the flak towards ZZZero though? For fucks sake no. And anybody saying dumb shit like "BSL is amateur tournament", "not even top 3" or some other stupid ass statement, need to wake the fuck up...
The most important thing to say is: Thank you ZZZero for bringing us such a nice tournament and keeping foreign BW alive. Please do not invite ppl like Rapid anymore! But thank you anyway for all the hard work and effort you put into our mutual hobby, even quitting your day job to keep supporting Broodwar.
Just because you do a good thing doesn’t absolve you of criticism. Also, people are donating their money and volunteering their time. They should have an idea of what their money and time is being used for.
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On December 14 2023 03:05 Gandi wrote:Any other racist comment? I think it's enough internet for you today. Apart from me being polish I'm also black. Want to make comment about black people being unable to read too?
Very colorful of you to play the race card when issue its been framed about literacy/education more like chauvinism than the color of your skin nor the place you where born, religion nor geo politics, is more about if you care or not about woman feeling safe in your online/offline events like you as equals.
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On December 14 2023 03:25 jchassoul wrote:
Very colorful of you to play the race card when issue its been framed about literacy/education you know chauvinism.
Do you know what the education bias is? Maybe I have some difficulties reading or writing, because in my black neighbour none gave a crap about little black people like me and we never had teachers taking care of us?
As a woke people promoting cancel culture you seem to be very racist
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Rus_Brain, how dare you come on the attack about this post being made. That makes me so, so angry. You guys need to get immediately onto taking this seriously, explain in full what has happened at the earliest possible opportunity, and apologise for almost every step you have taken.
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On December 14 2023 02:06 Gandi wrote:Show nested quote +
Even in a court of law, testimony is considered direct evidence, and if it isn't contradicted by other evidence is sufficient to conclude guilt. That multiple corroborating testimonies of Rapid's guilt across three communities is insufficient evidence just indicates bad faith, not any desire to treat people as innocent until proven guilty.
This is false. It requires more than just not being contradicted by real evidence. It has to be given under oath and requires open court. Only then becomes "testimonial evidence" - not even a real evidence, because its worth is still based on its credibility. It works like that in US, Poland and probably in whole western world. What we get is just some story, not a direct evidence. Not even a testimony itself.
Point isn't we have enough to convict him, it's the standard of evidence for "he shouldn't be allowed into the BW community" is more stringent than if they brought a case and gave the same testimony in court. But I think you know that 
I have to assume people talking about Rapid's life getting ruined have nothing else going on besides BW because not getting to be part of a relatively tiny gaming scene is not life ruining by any stretch of the imagination to anyone who's even seen grass.
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the gandi dude is the most obvious troll and ur keeping it up lmao
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Can any admin nuke and ban those racists or should I report a hate crime?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 14 2023 04:50 Gandi wrote:
Can any admin nuke and ban those racists or should I report a hate crime?
All of your posts are troll, and you're just instigating race wars. Nothing wrong with Poland itself. Just a commentary about how the majority of polish people are trying to defend Rapid. Not that any of their posts are anything but "Lets not criticize someone because their actions don't define who they are." That's bullshit and you're doing a hell of a job trying to hide behind the innocent until proven guilty motif which again is only for the U.S. Legal system. This isn't a court. This is a community of people asking questions to answers we probably will never get. Rapid ,if history repeats, will disappear for another 3-4 years until he surfaces in another community. Where he will probably get called out again and go back to hiding. It's probably really exhausting for him, and I empathize with that.
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On December 13 2023 21:43 y2kid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 20:44 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me. Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about. I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions. Please point out where I am incorrect. There is another topic that discusses Rapid and his alleged misconduct in detail. In this post I will: (i) address my personal interpretation on what this topic is about; and then (ii) get back to the question of the current allegations and being able to draw your own conclusions, finally, I will (iii) share my personal POV if anyone is interested in that too. The purpose of this postThis post is about Zzzero as an organizer not (yet) addressing the issue after publicly denouncing Rapid on Twitter in 2020. It was unfortunate that we have not received anything before the event, but truth be told, we do not know the full story. Perhaps Zzzero did not know about this, or maybe he had other variables to consider, etc. The point is, nobody is condemning Zzzero's behaviour right now. Rather we are confused and would like to limit the impact that this situation might have on other (minor) leagues. I love BSL and hope that both the tournament and its organizer achieve longevity and one day receive the recognition they truly deserve. However, I cannot support an organization that makes me question its integrity. With all my heart I hope that Zzzero will shed some light on this whole situation after the event, when he is back home and rested. I would like to know more of the details that led to this occurrence and then, as you say, be able to draw my own conclusions. Fwiw I believe that this was all a misunderstanding or lack of foresight from one of the parties and, for me personally, acknowledging this would be enough. The incident, the the accusations, and the responseNow, to answer your question directly: no, there is no hard evidence in the form of screenshots. Of course, you are free to draw your own conclusions as I have drawn my own. There are, however, facts that you can use to aid your decision making process. I used to support Rapid when he was casting STPL and BSL, and believed that his casting style genuinely improved over time. When the first accusations started to appear I sincerely hoped that he will address them by either saying that they were not true, that he regrets his actions and will do better, or that he was at that time unable to comment on the events. Unfortunately, none of this happened. Regardless, let me reiterate the facts about this situation to the best of my knowledge: 1. Multiple streamers, public figures, came out and addressed the issue saying that they had experienced similar behaviour and had been put into such a situation by Rapid. 2. BSL, as an organization, distanced themselves from Rapid's behaviour and issued a post on Twitter where they said they treat this seriously and will cease their current and future business with Rapid. 3. Rapid failed to acknowledge any of the allegations against him. Context: At that point he was a public figure in a lot of the BW communities, people that knew him reached out over discord asking about his personal view on the matter. None of these requests were addressed afaik, and instead he left all BW communities, deleted all of his twitch content and left the scene for good. 4. Three years after he had left the scene he reappears at a BSL celebratory event. 5. There is no official stand by either rapid or BSL about the situation from three years ago and why he was allowed to cover the casting of that BSL event during day one of the event, despite being denounced by BSL. These are all the facts, as far as I am aware. You are free to draw your own conclusions and decide what you want to believe in. There has not been any legal case by either of the involved parties as far as I am aware. If you are interested in my stance based on these facts here is my POV: + Show Spoiler +The fact that multiple public figures came forth, joining the allegations is evidence enough for me that this is something that ought to be addressed. I would have been more understanding if all people who accused Rapid were random accounts without many posts, or were created shortly before accusing him. However, that is not the case. The people that spoke out are real and you could trace their public connection with Rapid if you tried.
Rapid not addressing any of these and disappearing from the community after these things happened does not speak well of him. It can be believed that there is a connection around the timing of these allegations and his disappearance. Refusal to address that in any way is at best questionable and leaves more to be desired. Still, it was his decision at the time and we, as a community, respected this.
I am unaware if BSL, as an organization, decided to act preemptively trying to protect their reputation or if they had their own internal investigation before denouncing Rapid. However, the fact is that they did it. I, personally, would expect that once a public stance is issued banning a person the events of an organization, then a public stance about his return in the organization is also in order.
I have made my mind about the first issue, I am still waiting on more details before I can make my mind on the second and I hope that we, as a community, will receive these details this time.
I think i read almost every comment from this thread and found y2kid's comment to be the most well thought out and informative on the topic. I understand both sides of people being rightfully discontent with Rapid's unexplained reappearance and people feeling there are more unknowns due to the lack of Rapid's story to have a better judgement of what happened between him and the victims online. Rapid would've made his situation much better by simply explaining his side of the story and maybe admitting that he was wrong and he is sorry for what he did and will do better in the future. We are all human and we all make mistakes, but we also need to take accountability for those mistakes. I am sure ZZZero will give his view soon enough and will clear up the intentions on BSL's side, we already have Rus_Brain's view. It's good that this story was not swepped under the rug and that we as a community empathize with victims of inappropriate sexually aggressive behaviour or any mentally/physically damaging behaviour towards others. It's also good that we don't want to jump to conclusions without enough information and want to make sure that nobody is accused of something without sufficient credible information.
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On December 14 2023 05:50 art_of_turtle wrote: the innocent until proven guilty motif which again is only for the U.S. Legal system.
Is it really? https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/48-presumption-innocence-and-right-defence
On December 14 2023 05:51 BulgarianToss wrote: It's also good that we don't want to jump to conclusions without enough information and want to make sure that nobody is accused of something without sufficient credible information.
I think this "community statement" and removing link to live stream was jumping to conclusions. But I agree with you that some comments like y2kid's are very reasonable and I'm positive ZZZero will be heard when he decides to comment.
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On December 14 2023 06:16 Chaosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 05:50 art_of_turtle wrote: the innocent until proven guilty motif which again is only for the U.S. Legal system. Is it really? https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/48-presumption-innocence-and-right-defenceShow nested quote +On December 14 2023 05:51 BulgarianToss wrote: It's also good that we don't want to jump to conclusions without enough information and want to make sure that nobody is accused of something without sufficient credible information. I think this "community statement" and removing link to live stream was jumping to conclusions. But I agree with you that some comments like y2kid's are very reasonable and I'm positive ZZZero will be heard when he decides to comment.
He will be heard. That is what the statement says. We pause support until a statement is made. Hopefully sooner rather than later, but this is not an instant termination of all work and support for zzzero, just a pause while he collects his thoughts.
As others have said, we do owe him that much for all he did and it is my personal wish that we can put this behind us, uphold our standards and grow from there to unleash all the potential BSL has.
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People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
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On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
I greatly appreciate what you've done for BSL, and understand it's probably very frustrating to see many criticizing/complaining against the organization who haven't done 1/1000 of what you have. But, let's be clear here, it's not the people complaining who are putting those many years of efforts in jeopardy.
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Honestly if you are struggling with money, go find a job or something, BW isn't in the high days anymore, this should be just a hobby if you have free time to support the community kind of thing tbh, just my 5 cents. There is even more criticism and skeptism something like this happens if you are short on money, arn't that obvious?
Honestly, who cares about BSL could be a very small fraction, to a lot of people who play the game still, only cares with the friend and actual community they play with.
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On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
This is a very condescending tone. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you learn that it only takes for good people to do nothing for bad actors to thrive. Without a doubt I believe Rapid to be a bad actor. His inaction to deny accusations or accept them is all I need to know that he is a person without any integrity. therefore any acts of decency will not be in good faith. He will do anything to skirt responsibility. That's who you're defending so vehemently.
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United States9936 Posts
On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
A ton of people who actually did things to help the scene are complaining. Who are you to speak to us like we did nothing? And it isn’t us who are jeopardizing the scene, maybe look at the people who actually caused this in the first place.
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On December 14 2023 08:56 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts. A ton of people who actually did things to help the scene are complaining. Who are you to speak to us like we did nothing? And it isn’t us who are jeopardizing the scene, maybe look at the people who actually caused this in the first place.
Yes, this.
Fuck off saying that the people complaining don't contribute. I've spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars of my own money working on and running things for BW. I, pretty justifiably in my opinion, don't want people throwing away all of the work I put into this stuff by bringing back people into the scene who have caused a ton of harm and resulted in many people feeling like they don't belong here, without even giving us so much as a single reason why his ban should have been lifted. People don't get to sidestep rules and morals by bribing someone at the top.
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I haven't posted here for awhile and I haven't put salt in the wounds of brain&his fellow pro-russian-nationalist-warfare-camp after I stood up for keeping that stuff out of BW and after the fact that russia invaded ukraine.
But brain's post here and some of his fellows' are again off the charts - citing the bible while attacking people who want to keep sexual misconduct out of their community...
c'mon TL - just ban him and this bs-people.
nobody needs this bs - BSL doesn't justify it at all. BW at highest levels is played in Korea.
While I appreciate the organisational efforts in putting together leagues, ladders, etc, I wouldn't care if I never heard of BSL or any other event organized or funded by pro-warfare&sexists again. Let them run their own network - BW-fans don't need them.
I knew early TL-folks personally and played with them a ton. Think of what TL stands for.
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EPT
