Community TO statement about Rapid and BSL - Page 6
Forum Index > BW General |
BSL Statement about Rapid Casting: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/618964-bsl-statement-about-rapid-casting-in-lan | ||
WGT-Baal
France3341 Posts
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Smorrie
Netherlands2921 Posts
I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either. So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time. I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical. Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs. Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me. User was warned for this post. | ||
art_of_turtle
United States1183 Posts
On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote: This thread is insane to me. I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either. So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time. I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical. Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs. Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me. Most Brood war interactions shifted away from TL unless there's news or people watching vods and tournaments. Much of the conversations are still on battlenet and discords which there are plenty of in the brood war scene. This scene compared to most games is still small, unless you're talking about the Korean scene which is still the most competitive in the world. | ||
tedster
984 Posts
On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote: This thread is insane to me. I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either. So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time. I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical. Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs. Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10091 Posts
On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote: This thread is insane to me. I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either. So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time. I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical. Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs. Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me. Most people are simply calling for some communication from either Rapid, or from ZZZero himself. The fact that people are defending him causes people to respond more forcefully bringing up the allegations. The fact that Rapid hasn't said ANYTHING, not a peep about the allegations speaks volumes. If he had simply said, I never did this. Or, I learned from my mistake, everything would've been done and dusted. With regards to the allegations themselves, let's simply think about it from the most simple explanation. Do we think the people who have brought the allegations are lying? Or do we think that Rapid is actually guilty of what is alleged. There were multiple people who alleged pretty much the exact same story. This also spanned multiple games (League, SC1, SC2). Do we really think that MULTIPLE PEOPLE somehow collaborated to fabricate a story? Or that one person actually had a story, and others wanted to jump on and make up their own story because they think Rapid is an easy target? Or do we think that Rapid actually did what he did? Idk, of course we don't have the damning proof. But as mentioned countless times, this isn't a court room, beyond a reasonable doubt is not a standard that we follow, and the court of public perception requires far less evidence. | ||
tec27
United States3694 Posts
On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote: This thread is insane to me. I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either. So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time. I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical. Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs. Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me. If you're going to try to summarize the thread, perhaps you should actually read it first. Nobody is calling for "a harder punishment [...] than Rapid himself" for ZZZero. The very OP of this thread is the thing we have signed onto, it has a very specific and clear requirement: On December 13 2023 05:55 WGT-Baal wrote: Is wanting a statement about how and why this happened a huge punishment? Really?Until a satisfactory statement is made from BSL, we will be pausing all partnerships with the organization. You say yourself that "hardly any details are known" and that's what we want fixed. Nobody can properly decide how to treat this situation until we know what exactly happened and why, and that is why it is imperative that ZZZero and BSL give that statement. Rus_Brain's "statement" was obviously not acceptable to the majority of people here, and I sure hope that's not representative of how ZZZero feels, but obviously we can't know that until ZZZero says something Quit shitting on people that want the community to be a better, more welcoming place, where tournament organizers are transparent and keep their own rules. If BSL didn't want their brand tarnished perhaps they shouldn't have employed Rapid for the tournament, I hardly see how that is the fault of the people upset about it. And for the record... So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. This is you. Did this thread really need your input? If you know nothing about the subject then maybe just quit typing and let the people that have some familiarity with it talk. | ||
ShadPro
Poland28 Posts
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States642 Posts
On December 14 2023 22:08 ShadPro wrote: Some surprisingly reasonable responses here. As much as I still think most of you are way too quick to call Rapid a "sexual predator" and the entire case still looks feeble as hell, I do think it is a very fair point that we should get a discussion going with people in question - is there a plan to achieve that? Will there be any attempt to contact Rapid and Zzzero or is it just this thread? They probably contacted ZZZero, as it sounds like, with no avail, so they started this thread instead I think. | ||
art_of_turtle
United States1183 Posts
On December 14 2023 22:08 ShadPro wrote: Some surprisingly reasonable responses here. As much as I still think most of you are way too quick to call Rapid a "sexual predator" and the entire case still looks feeble as hell, I do think it is a very fair point that we should get a discussion going with people in question - is there a plan to achieve that? Will there be any attempt to contact Rapid and Zzzero or is it just this thread? I"m sure 3 years is plenty of time to come to that conclusion without response. Unless you have a standard that is reasonable. | ||
anaya
2 Posts
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anaya
2 Posts
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Smorrie
Netherlands2921 Posts
Ironically, a discussion that mentions accountability many times is ridiculed by its very absence. Everyone loves accountability when pointing at others, but accountability is not a one way street. Accountability is not a one way street. The tendency to discredit views that don’t match your own under a guise of consensus is not only insincere but pretty much what is referred to as cancel culture. It’s characterized by the lack of acknowledgment of facts or integrity and fueled by the dislike of someone’s actions. My initial post was not in defense of Rapid or ZZZero, but rather a critique of our community's collective witch hunt. An attempt to question and uphold the integrity of the community. But as always, it turns out criticism is easier to give than to receive, even for a mature audience. On top of that I ended up receiving a warning for my post. You’d think that a community predominantly comprised of adults would be more receptive to open discussion. As for my warning: If you did not conduct any research on your own then you're basically posting out of your ass. Why was your post even necessary? This is a serious topic and we take every post seriously. If you have nothing of value to add, then just don't post. Thanks in advance for your cooperation, Seeker (Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.) @Seeker, you’re questioning the necessity of my post & referring to an assumed lack of research. My post was a serious contribution. How does it qualify for a warning? If not for my history and contributions, I likely would have been banned. Is extensive independent research now a prerequisite for participation in this forum in 2023? Also, in the spirit of accountability, I am now asking you: did my post go unread or misunderstood? Did you perhaps miscomprehend my post or did it just not warrant a serious consideration in your books? I can’t help but feel your approach here is an equivalent of (mild) censorship. I can’t help but take this approach as ‘anyone not showing disapproval is a bad actor’. Call outs to cancel BSL or ZZZero are truly ungrounded, especially given that he has been given ample time to speak up or release any sort of statement. That said, I’m slightly dumbfounded by your decision making here. So I question the justification of the warning issued and am asking you if you are willing to retract the warning, or add an admin note to my profile with a rectification. Or is accountability in full dismissal here? @Tedster ??? your response suggests a misinterpretation of my post @FlaShFTW thanks for an honest response - I fully agree with you. I don't think he should be fulfilling any public role anymore at this point, with or without apology. Also, if anything, he probably should be apologizing to the people he offended. I personally don’t care too much about a public statement or apology from Rapid. @tec27 I’m not sure what you're on about.. Your, Baal’s & the undersigned OP’s stance appear to want to dictate the terms in which ZZZero needs to engage with the community. What is this a 'requirement' for? For the community's forgiveness? Have there even been made any reasonable efforts to reach out to him? In any case, no reasonable time was ever given to him to respond. If anything, your other posts in this thread are aggressive in tone. I can understand you got caught up in the moment. But your approach & demands are aggressive in nature & counterproductive to fostering a welcoming community. This thread only helps in creating a bigger vehicle for people to jump onto. Not like you could not have foreseen this - this was the actual goal of the thread in the first place. A very questionable practice if you ask me. How can you ask the community to be a better & welcoming place when this is your modus operandi? Like I said, accountability goes both ways. Finally, for the record, please let me also remind you that from all people in this thread, you are the only one referring to Rapid as a sexual predator. You might have a different idea of the definition of a sexual predator. Evidently this thread does need some questioning. Being in a 1 vs 100 / hive mind environment usually is hopeless. I know there are plenty of people that feel similar but feel it’s not worth putting their neck on the line for some drama. | ||
Moro1
1 Post
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1389 Posts
On December 15 2023 08:20 Smorrie wrote: + Show Spoiler + Considering ZZZero’s recent response I suppose this thread is not really that relevant anymore. Regardless, I do want to address the absurdity in some comments & of course the warning I received by Seeker. Ironically, a discussion that mentions accountability many times is ridiculed by its very absence. Everyone loves accountability when pointing at others, but accountability is not a one way street. Accountability is not a one way street. The tendency to discredit views that don’t match your own under a guise of consensus is not only insincere but pretty much what is referred to as cancel culture. It’s characterized by the lack of acknowledgment of facts or integrity and fueled by the dislike of someone’s actions. My initial post was not in defense of Rapid or ZZZero, but rather a critique of our community's collective witch hunt. An attempt to question and uphold the integrity of the community. But as always, it turns out criticism is easier to give than to receive, even for a mature audience. On top of that I ended up receiving a warning for my post. You’d think that a community predominantly comprised of adults would be more receptive to open discussion. As for my warning: If you did not conduct any research on your own then you're basically posting out of your ass. Why was your post even necessary? This is a serious topic and we take every post seriously. If you have nothing of value to add, then just don't post. Thanks in advance for your cooperation, Seeker (Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.) @Seeker, you’re questioning the necessity of my post & referring to an assumed lack of research. My post was a serious contribution. How does it qualify for a warning? If not for my history and contributions, I likely would have been banned. Is extensive independent research now a prerequisite for participation in this forum in 2023? Also, in the spirit of accountability, I am now asking you: did my post go unread or misunderstood? Did you perhaps miscomprehend my post or did it just not warrant a serious consideration in your books? I can’t help but feel your approach here is an equivalent of (mild) censorship. I can’t help but take this approach as ‘anyone not showing disapproval is a bad actor’. Call outs to cancel BSL or ZZZero are truly ungrounded, especially given that he has been given ample time to speak up or release any sort of statement. That said, I’m slightly dumbfounded by your decision making here. So I question the justification of the warning issued and am asking you if you are willing to retract the warning, or add an admin note to my profile with a rectification. Or is accountability in full dismissal here? + Show Spoiler + @Tedster ??? your response suggests a misinterpretation of my post @FlaShFTW thanks for an honest response - I fully agree with you. I don't think he should be fulfilling any public role anymore at this point, with or without apology. Also, if anything, he probably should be apologizing to the people he offended. I personally don’t care too much about a public statement or apology from Rapid. @tec27 I’m not sure what you're on about.. Your, Baal’s & the undersigned OP’s stance appear to want to dictate the terms in which ZZZero needs to engage with the community. What is this a 'requirement' for? For the community's forgiveness? Have there even been made any reasonable efforts to reach out to him? In any case, no reasonable time was ever given to him to respond. If anything, your other posts in this thread are aggressive in tone. I can understand you got caught up in the moment. But your approach & demands are aggressive in nature & counterproductive to fostering a welcoming community. This thread only helps in creating a bigger vehicle for people to jump onto. Not like you could not have foreseen this - this was the actual goal of the thread in the first place. A very questionable practice if you ask me. How can you ask the community to be a better & welcoming place when this is your modus operandi? Like I said, accountability goes both ways. Finally, for the record, please let me also remind you that from all people in this thread, you are the only one referring to Rapid as a sexual predator. You might have a different idea of the definition of a sexual predator. Evidently this thread does need some questioning. Being in a 1 vs 100 / hive mind environment usually is hopeless. I know there are plenty of people that feel similar but feel it’s not worth putting their neck on the line for some drama. I hate to veer again off topic, but I think it is important in this case. Peeano contacted me on Discord about my posts spamming this very thread, quote: "I'm sorry to say, but what you're doing is just adding extra noise, that is not helpful imho. You don't need a dozen of posts to state your opinion or show which side you support. Right?" I thought about it and concluded that he has a good point and I should check myself before posting or responding to everybody in this particular thread. I even told him if he was a mod (which he stated he wasn't) it would be good to have a warning on my post showing where the boundaries are as the mods see them. Personally I don't think the reason for the warning on your post is because you may be on the wrong side of the mod's opinion. I have been warned twice in 2016 on different topic by Seeker and tocufake. That was the last time probably I've looked at tl.net's code of conduct: https://tl.net/forum/tl-community/17883-tlnet-ten-commandments I also want to add I would not go as far as using the term "sexual predator" as defined in the link below or "which hunt" (a metaphor for investigation with real purpose of harming opponents). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_predator#:~:text=A sexual predator is a,his or her sex partners. I too was contacted by another person telling me they would not be posting further because their views are being represented well enough in the relevant threads. Finally I am glad things have moved in the right direction in a speedy manner as far as I'm concerned. Cheers | ||
LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
On December 14 2023 03:41 Haighstrom wrote: Rus_Brain, how dare you come on the attack about this post being made. That makes me so, so angry. You guys need to get immediately onto taking this seriously, explain in full what has happened at the earliest possible opportunity, and apologise for almost every step you have taken. This is the risk that's taken when the community accepts sponsorship money from shady sources. It's the same that's happening in chess and soccer with gambling ads and shady crypto scam ads. When you take money from someone, you're creating a power relationship, and it might happen that the person giving you money might think that they can do and say what they want because they gave you the money. So when you get a sponsor, you better make sure they have a working moral compass. It's not a surprise that rus_brain doesn't understand the problem in the power abuse by Rapid over a minor and other women, now that we see that rus_brain himself abuses his power relationship with BSL to get Rapid to cast without even warning the organizer. Clearly he was aware of Rapid's history and didn't give a shit. I love seeing broodwar grow but we have to stop ignoring the problems this community faces in the name of growth. It's more important to have a healthy community than it is to have a number of viewers or a large prize fund. We'll be here for another 10 years even with no money if the game stays the same but if this starts looking like a safe haven for incels I can't say the same will still be true. | ||
WGT-Baal
France3341 Posts
On December 15 2023 08:20 Smorrie wrote: Considering ZZZero’s recent response I suppose this thread is not really that relevant anymore. Regardless, I do want to address the absurdity in some comments & of course the warning I received by Seeker. Ironically, a discussion that mentions accountability many times is ridiculed by its very absence. Everyone loves accountability when pointing at others, but accountability is not a one way street. Accountability is not a one way street. The tendency to discredit views that don’t match your own under a guise of consensus is not only insincere but pretty much what is referred to as cancel culture. It’s characterized by the lack of acknowledgment of facts or integrity and fueled by the dislike of someone’s actions. My initial post was not in defense of Rapid or ZZZero, but rather a critique of our community's collective witch hunt. An attempt to question and uphold the integrity of the community. But as always, it turns out criticism is easier to give than to receive, even for a mature audience. On top of that I ended up receiving a warning for my post. You’d think that a community predominantly comprised of adults would be more receptive to open discussion. As for my warning: @Seeker, you’re questioning the necessity of my post & referring to an assumed lack of research. My post was a serious contribution. How does it qualify for a warning? If not for my history and contributions, I likely would have been banned. Is extensive independent research now a prerequisite for participation in this forum in 2023? Also, in the spirit of accountability, I am now asking you: did my post go unread or misunderstood? Did you perhaps miscomprehend my post or did it just not warrant a serious consideration in your books? I can’t help but feel your approach here is an equivalent of (mild) censorship. I can’t help but take this approach as ‘anyone not showing disapproval is a bad actor’. Call outs to cancel BSL or ZZZero are truly ungrounded, especially given that he has been given ample time to speak up or release any sort of statement. That said, I’m slightly dumbfounded by your decision making here. So I question the justification of the warning issued and am asking you if you are willing to retract the warning, or add an admin note to my profile with a rectification. Or is accountability in full dismissal here? @Tedster ??? your response suggests a misinterpretation of my post @FlaShFTW thanks for an honest response - I fully agree with you. I don't think he should be fulfilling any public role anymore at this point, with or without apology. Also, if anything, he probably should be apologizing to the people he offended. I personally don’t care too much about a public statement or apology from Rapid. @tec27 I’m not sure what you're on about.. Your, Baal’s & the undersigned OP’s stance appear to want to dictate the terms in which ZZZero needs to engage with the community. What is this a 'requirement' for? For the community's forgiveness? Have there even been made any reasonable efforts to reach out to him? In any case, no reasonable time was ever given to him to respond. If anything, your other posts in this thread are aggressive in tone. I can understand you got caught up in the moment. But your approach & demands are aggressive in nature & counterproductive to fostering a welcoming community. This thread only helps in creating a bigger vehicle for people to jump onto. Not like you could not have foreseen this - this was the actual goal of the thread in the first place. A very questionable practice if you ask me. How can you ask the community to be a better & welcoming place when this is your modus operandi? Like I said, accountability goes both ways. Finally, for the record, please let me also remind you that from all people in this thread, you are the only one referring to Rapid as a sexual predator. You might have a different idea of the definition of a sexual predator. Evidently this thread does need some questioning. Being in a 1 vs 100 / hive mind environment usually is hopeless. I know there are plenty of people that feel similar but feel it’s not worth putting their neck on the line for some drama. You are right. This OP was relevant during the period between the issue and ZZZero s statement. @mods i am not sure what the process is but could we get this thread locked as the original goal has been reached, we have information now and an assurance that this was indeed a mistake that will not happen again. People can continue to fight in the other threads if they want~ | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9487 Posts
For statement from BSL, go to this thread: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/618964-bsl-statement-about-rapid-casting-in-lan | ||
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