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We are deeply saddened by the recent events surrounding BSL and Rapid. Allowing someone to cast on stream who has been publicly banned without any sort of statement is damaging for the community as a whole, and affects other tournament organizers who abide by their own rules.
Until a satisfactory statement is made from BSL, we will be pausing all partnerships with the organization. This decision is not made lightly, but through our love for the community, and our commitment to integrity within our own events.
Signed: ash.Baal (BWCL)
nOm.Airn (CSL, NSL, BWCL)
mG[Que3n] (BWCL)
ash.Return (CPL,BWCL)
dada (CPL)
y2kid (CPL)
iRk-Camodaz (former BWCL and BSL)
nOm.Esk4l4de (NSL, BWCL, NWL, CPL, CSL)
Nicepants (NWL)
nOm.Cookimaster (NSL)
ash.ArtOfTurtle (NAKL)
Qikz (STPL)
iRk-Manadog (CPL)
ash.Green (CPL)
Jealous (NYC LAN, CPL, SSCAIT)
Tec27 (SB)
***Edit:
Zzzero replied to our request in this thread
Here is a quick summary of the facts as they appear right now:
1. Zzzero was unaware of Rapid's invitation to the event.
2. Zzzero was not the person who invited Rapid. At present we do not know who that person was.
3. Zzzero acknowledges that allowing Rapid to cast during day one of the event was a mistake. In retrospect, he regrets his decision and owns up to that mistake. He also pointed out that the situation during day one was rather chaotic and that, along other reasons, led to eventually letting Rapid cast for a limited time.
4.Allowing Rapid to cast was in no way a premature and unannounced lift of his **existing** BSL ban. It was a rushed ill-advised decision that Zzzero feels sorry about.
We thank Zzzero for addressing this issue in a timely manner.
We all greatly appreciate ZZZero's work and BSL. While we regret what happened, we are satisfied with the explanation and would like nothing more than to move past this.
```
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Right on.
Contrary to what blackmanpl said it seems way more than 5 people are concerned over the issue. Or maybe he can only count to 5... ^_._^
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Hey im not sure if it really is necessaryto make this public statement. I mean our community is so small, everyone of you guys know the BSL organizer. Why not just speak with him directly and demand a public statement from him personaly before putting so much pressure to a guy like ZZZero.
I think this wasnt necessary.
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the reverse is also true, ZZZero could have reached out to anyone or reacted in the thread or made a statement in the 4 days since this happened, yet here we are.
This is a catastrophic failure as a tournament organiser, the precedent it sets and the ramifications could have a terrible impact on every one of our tournaments, it cannot be accepted.
It doesnt matter how big or small the scene is or whether or not this is a lot of pressure on ZZZero, some actions are unacceptable and shouldnt be brushed behind closed doors. It is part of his responsiblities as a tournament organiser, and even moreso than most of us since he gets money for his work.
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As of now it looks increasingly likely that BSL17 is the last regular BSL. Well they are $5k short of the target anyway... might as well ride off into the sunset (of Phuket).
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Netherlands4731 Posts
Why was Rapid there?
Who invited Rapid?
Why did Rapid get a chair and mic on day 1 but not on day 2 and beyond?
Why did this all of this go unaddressed this far despite the tournament organizers, Rus_Brain and ZZZero, clearly reading TL each day and seeing all the commotion about Rapid randomly being there?
I put the events on the TL calendar, even double checking with ZZZero, to support this event. This was prior to knowing Rapid would be there.
For the historic value and TL still being BW's hub I was unsure whether to take off the events of the calendar or not. Since on day 2 - to my knowledge - nothing was addressed yet. I decided to take off the events of the calendar as a way of saying this whole ordeal is not cool.
Like OP & co, I am also waiting for a statement and very suprised there has not been one yet.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2023 08:18 Peeano wrote:
Why was Rapid there?
Who invited Rapid?
Why did Rapid get a chair and mic on day 1 but not on day 2 and beyond?
Why did this all of this go unaddressed this far despite the tournament organizers, Rus_Brain and ZZZero, clearly reading TL each day and seeing all the commotion about Rapid randomly being there?
I put the events on the TL calendar, even double checking with ZZZero, to support this event. This was prior to knowing Rapid would be there.
For the historic value and TL still being BW's hub I was unsure whether to take off the events of the calendar or not. Since on day 2 - to my knowledge - nothing was addressed yet. I decided to take off the events of the calendar as a way of saying this whole ordeal is not cool.
Like OP & co, I am also waiting for a statement and very suprised there has not been one yet.
I was wondering why it wasn't on the calendar.
Edit: in the interest of keeping this thread on point and not just engaging in arguments anyone who wants to discuss further @me in the other thread: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/618831-rapidcasting-is-back-in-bsl or in FBW discord
I've said plenty. I wish more people would put their 2 cents in as well. I think we've had some good discussion on it.
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On December 13 2023 06:52 earob84 wrote:
Hey im not sure if it really is necessaryto make this public statement. I mean our community is so small, everyone of you guys know the BSL organizer. Why not just speak with him directly and demand a public statement from him personaly before putting so much pressure to a guy like ZZZero.
I think this wasnt necessary.
I'm honestly really sad it came to this. I really do love working with Zero and BSL, and my time with them has been incredible. It's because out community is so small that we should keep each other honest. By calling out bad things like this, we can keep our community the awesome group of people that it is. If we don't police our community at least a bit, then we end up just toxic and hateful towards each other. And we aren't like that. Sure, we're all old school gamers who like to throw around some gamer words from time to time, but we aren't really toxic at all. If we were truly a toxic community, CPL wouldn't exist and neither would NSL. And we definitely wouldn't be crowdfunding something like BSL every year.
My hope is that Zero comes out quickly, says something reasonable, and we can all go back to being good friends and working together.
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Bisutopia19176 Posts
Was this post not sufficient?
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That statement is from 2020, we're talking about an event in 2023. If anything that X post hurts BSL's looks even more.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 13 2023 10:00 NiteKat wrote:
That statement is from 2020, we're talking about an event in 2023. If anything that X post hurts BSL's looks even more.
Agreed. There should be an explanation from ZZZero regarding his decision to rehire/admit Rapid as a caster. Perhaps there was a discussion behind closed doors where Rapid reached out to ZZZero to express his desire to return, and perhaps there was some form of apology in private from Rapid that ultimately led to ZZZero allowing him back...
Or on the other hand, did ZZZero reach out to Rapid directly? Did he initiate? Was he keeping in touch with Rapid this entire time with hopes of him returning at some future date? If so, we definitely would want some insight into his decision making as that seems extremely short sighted by him and would lead to the loss of confidence from many in the community.
A more detailed explanation is definitely in order and the community deserves to understand the behind the scenes details that led to Rapid's return.
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Bisutopia19176 Posts
On December 13 2023 10:00 NiteKat wrote:
That statement is from 2020, we're talking about an event in 2023. If anything that X post hurts BSL's looks even more.
Oh damn lol. It’s almost like they got hacked and were tricked into hiring him…
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This seems incredibly short-sighted by the ZZZero and BSL.... What the hell were they thinking having him on and what the hell are they thinking while they remain radio silent??
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XD XD XD
User was temp banned for this post.
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Hmm, what a bad timing, isn't the BSL still lacking money to start the next BSL? Desperation step? Definitely very questionable. A big thank you to the community for always bringing things like this to light.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
It is quite evident to me that those undersigned were well aware of ZZZero's presence in Phuket until this week's end, engaged in a demanding schedule to provide top-tier content to a multi-hundred audience. Nevertheless, there appeared to be a desire to divert ZZZero's attention to satisfy the demands of a vocal minority seeking a statement. When an immediate response was not forthcoming, they publicly addressed the matter without affording ZZZero an opportunity to clarify. The act of plotting behind one's back raises genuine concerns regarding integrity.
I myself took note of the ongoing discussions regarding the Rapid rage topic on this forum. In response, I chose to shield ZZZero from this discourse for a few compelling reasons:
Firstly, I sought to prevent any distractions that might impede his commitment to delivering online content. I offered him the option of refraining from casting this tournament from the very beginning, however, ZZZero is a man of his word, and he proceeded with the online cast as he comitted years ago.
Secondly, I aimed to safeguard ZZZero's emotional well-being and overall mood, unti at least he transit from the warmth of Phuket to the harsh winter in Poland.
While I do hold in high regard the combined collective represented in this platform, it appears that some may lack firsthand experience in organizing events of such a scale, let alone offline tournaments. One must question the basis for calling for someone's removal solely on the grounds of criticism in a forum.
The offline segment of the tournament fell under my purview, with Rapid providing valuable support by facilitating the participation of Sharp and offering outstanding photography services, among other contributions. It would be a misjudgment to conclude that acknowledging this part of the statement absolves Rapid of any responsibility for his past actions. However, making these past actions public can serve as a means of accountability, at least until such actions might potentially recur.
Let me now consider the situation from an alternative perspective. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that every facet of the event was ZZZero's sole responsibility. In such a scenario, overlooking Rapid's involvement as a caster could be viewed as a form of negligence. Having had the privilege of collaborating with some of you in the past, however, I am aware that certain individuals have displayed a level of neglect in fulfilling their responsibilities that could have warranted legal action. In comparison, ZZZero's lapses appear far less severe.
In the words of the Bible, as found in Matthew 7:1
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" it is essential to reflect upon our own actions before casting judgment upon others.
As for matters of finance, let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of existence, money is but a fleeting concern. When we depart this world, our possessions will hold no sway. And for those who may have missed it, Geoff, at the very least, has departed during the time from the 20th Anniversary to the 25th Anniversary.
Let us strive for understanding, empathy, and unity in our interactions, both online and offline.
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I show my empathy towards victims of sexual abuse.
Did he use unwanted sexual advances and use manipulative behavior to solicit sex?
Is that a person who would be worth associating with?
Why is it so difficult to just receive a stance on whether you think he is a sexual abuser or not. My concern is the safety of the people who attend, not the event itself. I understand that Zzzero is busy running the tournament and I didn't expect any statement until after the event. But it doesn't take a genius to go "hey, this guy doesn't have a good history, maybe we shouldn't allow him to take part in the event without addressing the big fucking gap is his history of Sexual abuse." I don't want to fuck around with people who have patterns of abuse without there being any movements towards doing better.
I wanted to have empathy for Rapid when the statements against him came out. I waited in hopes he would say anything about the accusations. I wanted to hear him say "hey, these things I've done were immature and wrong and I know it now." or "I did not do the things that are being accused against me."
Again no followup whatsoever and I'm supposed to believe he's a changed person. That I have to look at the good when I was already let down 3 years ago.
I actually liked rapid once. I was happy to hear him during ASL Casts because it was English casting. I can accept he doesn't have much brood war strategy knowledge but he was calling out plays as they unfolded. He even did some translations for the interviews. I wanted so fucking badly to hear him say anything. But he left. I bet he was hoping we would all forget about it too. I didn't forget.
Offer up a statement about his return instead of asking us to just blindly accept him, otherwise Fuck off Rus_Brain.
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United States996 Posts
On December 13 2023 12:36 Rus_Brain wrote:+ Show Spoiler + It is quite evident to me that those undersigned were well aware of ZZZero's presence in Phuket until this week's end, engaged in a demanding schedule to provide top-tier content to a multi-hundred audience. Nevertheless, there appeared to be a desire to divert ZZZero's attention to satisfy the demands of a vocal minority seeking a statement. When an immediate response was not forthcoming, they publicly addressed the matter without affording ZZZero an opportunity to clarify. The act of plotting behind one's back raises genuine concerns regarding integrity. I myself took note of the ongoing discussions regarding the Rapid rage topic on this forum. In response, I chose to shield ZZZero from this discourse for a few compelling reasons: Firstly, I sought to prevent any distractions that might impede his commitment to delivering online content. I offered him the option of refraining from casting this tournament from the very beginning, however, ZZZero is a man of his word, and he proceeded with the online cast as he comitted years ago. Secondly, I aimed to safeguard ZZZero's emotional well-being and overall mood, unti at least he transit from the warmth of Phuket to the harsh winter in Poland. While I do hold in high regard the combined collective represented in this platform, it appears that some may lack firsthand experience in organizing events of such a scale, let alone offline tournaments. One must question the basis for calling for someone's removal solely on the grounds of criticism in a forum. The offline segment of the tournament fell under my purview, with Rapid providing valuable support by facilitating the participation of Sharp and offering outstanding photography services, among other contributions. It would be a misjudgment to conclude that acknowledging this part of the statement absolves Rapid of any responsibility for his past actions. However, making these past actions public can serve as a means of accountability, at least until such actions might potentially recur. Let me now consider the situation from an alternative perspective. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that every facet of the event was ZZZero's sole responsibility. In such a scenario, overlooking Rapid's involvement as a caster could be viewed as a form of negligence. Having had the privilege of collaborating with some of you in the past, however, I am aware that certain individuals have displayed a level of neglect in fulfilling their responsibilities that could have warranted legal action. In comparison, ZZZero's lapses appear far less severe. In the words of the Bible, as found in Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" it is essential to reflect upon our own actions before casting judgment upon others. As for matters of finance, let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of existence, money is but a fleeting concern. When we depart this world, our possessions will hold no sway. And for those who may have missed it, Geoff, at the very least, has departed during the time from the 20th Anniversary to the 25th Anniversary. Let us strive for understanding, empathy, and unity in our interactions, both online and offline.
I expect you're mistaken that the opinion represented here on TL represents a vocal minority, even if the posts are from a select number of people. The overlap between people who watch BW and the people who support the MeToo movement is probably rather large. When you give someone a platform to spread their influence and reassert themselves in a community without even acknowledging a variety of complaints, you send two messages: (1) people can either avoid or buy their way past previous transgressions (e.g., bringing a pro to a tournament, other services), and (2) it is acceptable to work with this person again. Given that the MeToo movement was purposed, in part, to shine a light on people using their power to escape culpability for their actions, you can imagine many people's continued ire in BSL's choosing to work with Rapid and their desire to remediate the situation as quickly as possible before further harm was done.
I don't want to speak for others, but I'm not looking for Rapid to prove his innocence in total. Rather, I'm just looking for some sort of accountability, be it through acknowledgement or statement to the community he appears to be looking to reenter, and then people can decide for themselves how they feel about it.
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On December 13 2023 12:36 Rus_Brain wrote:It is quite evident to me that those undersigned were well aware of ZZZero's presence in Phuket until this week's end, engaged in a demanding schedule to provide top-tier content to a multi-hundred audience. Nevertheless, there appeared to be a desire to divert ZZZero's attention to satisfy the demands of a vocal minority seeking a statement. When an immediate response was not forthcoming, they publicly addressed the matter without affording ZZZero an opportunity to clarify. The act of plotting behind one's back raises genuine concerns regarding integrity. I myself took note of the ongoing discussions regarding the Rapid rage topic on this forum. In response, I chose to shield ZZZero from this discourse for a few compelling reasons: Firstly, I sought to prevent any distractions that might impede his commitment to delivering online content. I offered him the option of refraining from casting this tournament from the very beginning, however, ZZZero is a man of his word, and he proceeded with the online cast as he comitted years ago. Secondly, I aimed to safeguard ZZZero's emotional well-being and overall mood, unti at least he transit from the warmth of Phuket to the harsh winter in Poland. While I do hold in high regard the combined collective represented in this platform, it appears that some may lack firsthand experience in organizing events of such a scale, let alone offline tournaments. One must question the basis for calling for someone's removal solely on the grounds of criticism in a forum. The offline segment of the tournament fell under my purview, with Rapid providing valuable support by facilitating the participation of Sharp and offering outstanding photography services, among other contributions. It would be a misjudgment to conclude that acknowledging this part of the statement absolves Rapid of any responsibility for his past actions. However, making these past actions public can serve as a means of accountability, at least until such actions might potentially recur. Let me now consider the situation from an alternative perspective. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that every facet of the event was ZZZero's sole responsibility. In such a scenario, overlooking Rapid's involvement as a caster could be viewed as a form of negligence. Having had the privilege of collaborating with some of you in the past, however, I am aware that certain individuals have displayed a level of neglect in fulfilling their responsibilities that could have warranted legal action. In comparison, ZZZero's lapses appear far less severe. In the words of the Bible, as found in Matthew 7:1 Show nested quote +"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" it is essential to reflect upon our own actions before casting judgment upon others. As for matters of finance, let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of existence, money is but a fleeting concern. When we depart this world, our possessions will hold no sway. And for those who may have missed it, Geoff, at the very least, has departed during the time from the 20th Anniversary to the 25th Anniversary. Let us strive for understanding, empathy, and unity in our interactions, both online and offline.
All right you guys made me actually create a TL account again ffs.
Lets get a few things clear, Zero is an adult who's name is invariably associated with the BSL name. And while he and the BSL are not completely clean of controversy themselves he has had a decent track record overall. Hiding potentially damaging conversations from him is just absurd and only causes to potentially harm him and the BSL as a whole.
Secondly, BSL is far from the most well organized foreigner event, and certainly not top tier when compared to major tournaments of any other esport. In fact it is on the lower end of the spectrum in my opinion, and many of the non cash prize BW tournaments are vastly more well organized and managed. what it has is an actual cash prize pool, a history, and foreign pro players. BSL is not special, BSL is not the greatest thing to ever happen to starcraft. This does not mean if the day comes that the BSL no longer exists it won't matter, because it will. Having a legitimate pro scene is good for BW as a whole and losing that would be difficult on the scene.
And lastly, as someone who has hosted large online events and offline events in the past, many of which were much larger than BSL, though only because BW does have a much smaller community getting people in seats is a much more difficult. Getting your staff plans is part of the planning process. Unless your claiming the premier foreign tournament that the god king Zero so graciously bestows on us was just hoping someone in the audience wanted to step up and cast like we are still in 2004.
At the end of the day, I support the decision of every single person who signed this. Until an official statement is made by the BSL I think they are making the correct call. Most of these organizers work full time jobs and provide these events for free taking time out of their own schedule for no pay off other than helping keep a game they love alive. Some of them even take money out of their own pockets in this economy to try to afford some incentive for better competition. They are fully in the right to separate their events from a brewing scandal that has not been addressed in any official capacity.
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Is Qikz running STPL again?
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On December 13 2023 16:49 kogeT wrote:
Is Qikz running STPL again?
I wish! ^_._^
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On December 13 2023 12:36 Rus_Brain wrote:It is quite evident to me that those undersigned were well aware of ZZZero's presence in Phuket until this week's end, engaged in a demanding schedule to provide top-tier content to a multi-hundred audience. Nevertheless, there appeared to be a desire to divert ZZZero's attention to satisfy the demands of a vocal minority seeking a statement. When an immediate response was not forthcoming, they publicly addressed the matter without affording ZZZero an opportunity to clarify. The act of plotting behind one's back raises genuine concerns regarding integrity. I myself took note of the ongoing discussions regarding the Rapid rage topic on this forum. In response, I chose to shield ZZZero from this discourse for a few compelling reasons: Firstly, I sought to prevent any distractions that might impede his commitment to delivering online content. I offered him the option of refraining from casting this tournament from the very beginning, however, ZZZero is a man of his word, and he proceeded with the online cast as he comitted years ago. Secondly, I aimed to safeguard ZZZero's emotional well-being and overall mood, unti at least he transit from the warmth of Phuket to the harsh winter in Poland. While I do hold in high regard the combined collective represented in this platform, it appears that some may lack firsthand experience in organizing events of such a scale, let alone offline tournaments. One must question the basis for calling for someone's removal solely on the grounds of criticism in a forum. The offline segment of the tournament fell under my purview, with Rapid providing valuable support by facilitating the participation of Sharp and offering outstanding photography services, among other contributions. It would be a misjudgment to conclude that acknowledging this part of the statement absolves Rapid of any responsibility for his past actions. However, making these past actions public can serve as a means of accountability, at least until such actions might potentially recur. Let me now consider the situation from an alternative perspective. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that every facet of the event was ZZZero's sole responsibility. In such a scenario, overlooking Rapid's involvement as a caster could be viewed as a form of negligence. Having had the privilege of collaborating with some of you in the past, however, I am aware that certain individuals have displayed a level of neglect in fulfilling their responsibilities that could have warranted legal action. In comparison, ZZZero's lapses appear far less severe. In the words of the Bible, as found in Matthew 7:1 Show nested quote +"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" it is essential to reflect upon our own actions before casting judgment upon others. As for matters of finance, let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of existence, money is but a fleeting concern. When we depart this world, our possessions will hold no sway. And for those who may have missed it, Geoff, at the very least, has departed during the time from the 20th Anniversary to the 25th Anniversary. Let us strive for understanding, empathy, and unity in our interactions, both online and offline.
"However, making these past actions public can serve as a means of accountability, at least until such actions might potentially recur."
Rapid didn't make his past actions public, his accusers did. Rapid has taken zero accountability for anything. He's demonstrated repeated sexual misconduct and creepy behavior to many women throughout multiple gaming communities over a long period of time. He has never addressed them and has never taken responsibility or accountability.
Also, why are you mentioning Geoff? He wouldn't agree with you here. In fact, he would most likely vocally tell you that having an accused sexual predator represent the top foreigner tournament in any capacity is a mistake. I'm telling you that as well. It was a mistake. Now take some accountability, apologize and do better. Trying to justify it is simply stubborn and stupid.
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On December 13 2023 12:36 Rus_Brain wrote:
As for matters of finance, let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of existence, money is but a fleeting concern. When we depart this world, our possessions will hold no sway. And for those who may have missed it, Geoff, at the very least, has departed during the time from the 20th Anniversary to the 25th Anniversary.
Bringing up Geoff's name in a post full of gross gibberish is just outrageous. What the hell are you doing, man.
It's hard to believe someone actually typed that.
Icky cretins don't need empathy, "forgiveness" or some kind of larger than life soliloquy advocating their return to an 25-year old computer game. There are plenty of other things to do in life, and never being in the public eye of the Starcraft scene again is the most minuscule, but necessary consequence.
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If only the female victims could’ve been shielded by such a positive force, but it’s good that an adult male could enjoy such courtesy. Promoting an individual BSL had previously, publicly denounced is quite confusing. How wonderful that you could make use of his outstanding photography services. Amazing!
Our community may be small, but it does not forget so easily.
I’ll thank you to leave my dear friend Geoff’s name out of this conversation in future, for it is highly inappropriate to mention him as part of a defense in this matter. Let him rest.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2023 12:36 Rus_Brain wrote:It is quite evident to me that those undersigned were well aware of ZZZero's presence in Phuket until this week's end, engaged in a demanding schedule to provide top-tier content to a multi-hundred audience. Nevertheless, there appeared to be a desire to divert ZZZero's attention to satisfy the demands of a vocal minority seeking a statement. When an immediate response was not forthcoming, they publicly addressed the matter without affording ZZZero an opportunity to clarify. The act of plotting behind one's back raises genuine concerns regarding integrity. I myself took note of the ongoing discussions regarding the Rapid rage topic on this forum. In response, I chose to shield ZZZero from this discourse for a few compelling reasons: Firstly, I sought to prevent any distractions that might impede his commitment to delivering online content. I offered him the option of refraining from casting this tournament from the very beginning, however, ZZZero is a man of his word, and he proceeded with the online cast as he comitted years ago. Secondly, I aimed to safeguard ZZZero's emotional well-being and overall mood, unti at least he transit from the warmth of Phuket to the harsh winter in Poland. While I do hold in high regard the combined collective represented in this platform, it appears that some may lack firsthand experience in organizing events of such a scale, let alone offline tournaments. One must question the basis for calling for someone's removal solely on the grounds of criticism in a forum. The offline segment of the tournament fell under my purview, with Rapid providing valuable support by facilitating the participation of Sharp and offering outstanding photography services, among other contributions. It would be a misjudgment to conclude that acknowledging this part of the statement absolves Rapid of any responsibility for his past actions. However, making these past actions public can serve as a means of accountability, at least until such actions might potentially recur. Let me now consider the situation from an alternative perspective. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that every facet of the event was ZZZero's sole responsibility. In such a scenario, overlooking Rapid's involvement as a caster could be viewed as a form of negligence. Having had the privilege of collaborating with some of you in the past, however, I am aware that certain individuals have displayed a level of neglect in fulfilling their responsibilities that could have warranted legal action. In comparison, ZZZero's lapses appear far less severe. In the words of the Bible, as found in Matthew 7:1 Show nested quote +"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" it is essential to reflect upon our own actions before casting judgment upon others. As for matters of finance, let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of existence, money is but a fleeting concern. When we depart this world, our possessions will hold no sway. And for those who may have missed it, Geoff, at the very least, has departed during the time from the 20th Anniversary to the 25th Anniversary. Let us strive for understanding, empathy, and unity in our interactions, both online and offline.
I am an atheist. Since you included Bible words maybe I need to also incorporate that in order to convey my argument better.
In the words of the Bible, as found in Matthew 7:1
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
That goes both ways right? 27 minutes after I posted the thread your first reply is "Dumb lizard" to me asking a few basic questions and making a few jokes about it.
I am glad since then you have shed more light on your perspective and the issue, but I guess I'm still a "Dumb lizard".
On the issue of Rapid bringing in Sharp (so the players can fight him in LAN conditions which they rarely get to do) and his other contributions I found more Bible words:
I am the God “who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes” Deuteronomy 10:17-18
I think most people choose to not comment because all sides of the discussion are represented (apart from Rapid speaking out for himself). Usually if someone is making the case I want to make I don't comment because I know they got this covered.
So in summary the way I understand it you are saying:
1. BSL will get all the help it can
2. Rapid's contribution to BSL is higher than the need for him to man up and speak out for himself
3. It is a purely utilitarian argument
I think this is trying to have your cake and eat it.
Also from purely utilitarian standpoint even Rapid should want others like himself to be accountable. This is the way to a better world.
Cheering for other's wrongdoing just to make your own wrongdoing feel better, look better or be more generally acceptable is the way to a worse world.
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On December 13 2023 18:16 Intricacy wrote:
If only the female victims could’ve been shielded by such a positive force, but it’s good that an adult male could enjoy such courtesy. Promoting an individual BSL had previously, publicly denounced is quite confusing. How wonderful that you could make use of his outstanding photography services. Amazing!
Our community may be small, but it does not forget so easily.
I’ll thank you to leave my dear friend Geoff’s name out of this conversation in future, for it is highly inappropriate to mention him as part of a defense in this matter. Let him rest.
Well said. I also want to bring up the fact that in the SC2 harassment thread TLO and other men also have come out sharing their stories of being on the receiving end of abuse.
I say this because it may be hard for some men to empathize with women, but this CAN happen to anyone. And it does!
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2
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Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
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On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
The silence says a lot.
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Silence says it was posted 14 minutes ago x)
The issue is more about bsl banning him and then apparently changing their minds without explanation.
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On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmn
https://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/
From the other thread, posted yesterday:
fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post
Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160
Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry.
I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me.
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It's cool guys, the known sexual predator got a progamer to come to the event and took some photos so it was totally worth it!
Go fuck yourself Rus_Brain, honestly. Don't throw around some bible verses and spit on a dead man's legacy to try to sweep this shit under the rug, or act like we're in the wrong for calling you out on this. This isn't acceptable, period.
I guess we just can't possibly understand "the complexities of running an offline event" that doesn't somehow hire a guy who was sending dick pics to minors at 27 fucking years old.
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for god's sake
you people really made it a big deal, haven't you?
Fuck Rapid. he's not a good caster and probably not a very decent human being.
Yes, Zero and Rusbrain should have said something and they are wrong for this.
But like really? like really? like you really want to bitch about it for ten pages first and then come out with your big fucking statement about how big and important TL council decided that bsl, the only fucking big thing about foreign starcraft, is not worthy to them anymore? you guys are so fucking smart and honorable.
I honestly hope that you'll ban me for this just because all this bitching is so sickening that i wish i would have never read it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Russian Federation194 Posts
On December 13 2023 19:41 MeSaber wrote:
The silence says a lot.
I'm sure that you, unlike Rapid, are eager to discuss your sexual behaviour and preferences on public. Are you?
Not saying he's good or bad, but not getting why a man prefers to keep silence in such circuimstances looks weird to me.
And, if a guy with such a background is being invited for job, it just displays how poor the others are. Rus_Brain actually stated it pretty much straight in his message above. If you guys want to see someone else working on the tournaments, probably someone else has to become a better professional first.
Whatever happened in chatting between guys and girls in the past, but an Esports LAN requires a number of particular things that are to be done in the venue. It's not about just 'being a nice person' hanging out there.
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LUCKY_NOOB is a hipocritical predator. Back when I was 11 he sent me his dick pics himself. It's really hard for me to talk about it, beacuse it brings back memories I've buried long time ago. However, given the circumstances, I think you guys should know that and consider taking appropriate actions. I don't want to talk about it anymore, so please, don't message me respect my privacy, and don't blame the victim
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On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
here's some, i know there are more posts that i haven't found, sorry, my memory is a bit fuzzy and some of the pages i tried to pull up 404'd
+ Show Spoiler +
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2023 20:14 kaby wrote:I'm sure that you, unlike Rapid, are eager to discuss your sexual behaviour and preferences on public. Are you? Not saying he's good or bad, but not getting why a man prefers to keep silence in such circuimstances looks weird to me. And, if a guy with such a background is being invited for job, it just displays how poor the others are. Rus_Brain actually stated it pretty much straight in his message above. If you guys want to see someone else working on the tournaments, probably someone else has to become a better professional first. Whatever happened in chatting between guys and girls in the past, but an Esports LAN requires a number of particular things that are to be done in the venue. It's not about just 'being a nice person' hanging out there.
I have no problem discussing my sexual preferences. I like + Show Spoiler +BDSM (and not just banitsa, drob surma and musaka), cuffs, choking, anal, ass to mouth, girl on girl, threesome 2 girls (or more) and me, roleplaying, domination... off the top of my head.
It's because this is off topic, not a sexual preference thread and I don't even know if it's allowed by tl.net's rules.
There is a BIG difference between FANTASY (what you imagine you want to do) and REALITY (what you do and stand for).
EVERYBODY has some fucked up thoughts, some of the time. The difference is who ACTS on what and how one conducts themselves. Also what we want to stand for as a community.
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If you are accused and you still wanna be a part of the community you address the situation, Rapid seems to not have done this and instead fled and now magically appears at BSL, still not saying anything.
Noone will accept Rapid flying under the radar in any event. Hes obviously not sorry for what he has done, if he now did anything but that the point. If you are accused and innocent you address it.
By staying silent he just proves hes guilty and dont wanna talk about it. An innocent man would have the guts to speak.
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On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me.
Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about.
I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions.
Please point out where I am incorrect.
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On December 13 2023 20:31 Gandi wrote:
LUCKY_NOOB is a hipocritical predator. Back when I was 11 he sent me his dick pics himself. It's really hard for me to talk about it, beacuse it brings back memories I've buried long time ago. However, given the circumstances, I think you guys should know that and consider taking appropriate actions. I don't want to talk about it anymore, so please, don't message me respect my privacy, and don't blame the victim
Let me hide for 3 years and never address this... Oh wait...
I unequivocally deny these accusations. Happy to settle this in court.
Unfortunately Gandi is clearly pretending to be a victim in an attempt to discredit me and actual victims.
Also darkening the Gandi name by using this nickname. Truly deplorable, whoever you actually are dude.
See... It's actually not THAT hard to deny something that is false.
^_._^
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On December 13 2023 20:35 quaristice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
here's some, i know there are more posts that i haven't found, sorry, my memory is a bit fuzzy and some of the pages i tried to pull up 404'd + Show Spoiler +
Thanks, seems like a lot of fucked up stories. I wonder what is the real reason that Rapid never addressed that. Usually people will see u as a guilty person.
I just hope it wasnt like "Its my time to get some attention too" situation, because we experienced that many times already and men usually have a lot of troubles defending themselves even if the stories are made up, simply because u cannot get a proof that u didnt do something.
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On December 13 2023 20:46 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 20:31 Gandi wrote:
LUCKY_NOOB is a hipocritical predator. Back when I was 11 he sent me his dick pics himself. It's really hard for me to talk about it, beacuse it brings back memories I've buried long time ago. However, given the circumstances, I think you guys should know that and consider taking appropriate actions. I don't want to talk about it anymore, so please, don't message me respect my privacy, and don't blame the victim Let me hide for 3 years and never address this... Oh wait... I unequivocally deny these accusations. Happy to settle this in court. Unfortunately Gandi is clearly pretending to be a victim in an attempt to discredit me and actual victims. Also darkening the Gandi name by using this nickname. Truly deplorable, whoever you actually are dude. See... It's actually not THAT hard to deny something that is false. ^_._^
Wow, LUCKY NOOB clearly pretending to be innocent to discredit real victims like me.
Also using emoji faces like it's funny to be sexually harassed as a kid
I'm happy to settle this in court, but for now it's best for you to go quiet, since presumption of innocence is not a thing anymore
Where are admins? Is it allowed on TL for sexual predators to freely deny public testimony of the victims?
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Russian Federation194 Posts
On December 13 2023 20:37 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
EVERYBODY has some fucked up thoughts, some of the time. The difference is who ACTS on what and how one conducts themselves. Also what we want to stand for as a community.
Of course, I can't disagree with that. My point is that probably BW guys really have to step up if there's no one better to invite for a job.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2023 20:37 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
random stranger
I'm not exactly a random stranger. I organized this one, as well as a number of local LANs in my country, and also do many different stuff in SC2. But I don't really follow TL forum trends, that's correct. Not like commenting on a forum is something valuable, though (no offense).
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2023 20:44 WolFix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me. Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about. I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions. Please point out where I am incorrect.
First of all screenshots can be faked.
You are correct there is no video proof, smoking gun, etc..
He may super secretly be the nicest guy ever. Or he may be a monster. Or he is somewhere in the middle.
Clearly he is fun to hang around with when it's other guys around.
As you say for whatever reason he can't be bothered to address the issue publicly.
So of course draw your own conclusions.
Is BSL accepting any help from him acceptable? Was this the way to play it out? What community do we want?
Some questions we may have to answer each for ourselves.
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On December 13 2023 20:46 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
See... It's actually not THAT hard to deny something that is false.
Wait... That is actually not quite true. Ofc we know that Gandi is trolling to point out that believing every story is stupid, but I wonder how would you defend from 20 women saying something like that. Would you still claim that its easy to deny lies when everybody in the internet sentenced you already? Like i said. Its impossible to get proof for ur innocence.
I have no idea what was the truth in case of Rapid, but I can totally imagine a situation where a girl wanted to get his dick pic, and then, after the years she founds that offensive or like I mentioned earlier - she wanted to get some attention. We will never know the truth obviously, but as a society we cannot undoubtly believe that someone was sexusally harassed by another just because she/he said so.
The fact is ppl got very emotional about this whole situation and i dont blame them. It sounds rather bad. On the other hand if u look at it from the objective perspective - his silence doesnt proof anything (even tho I - as emotional being - would also like to get explanations from him).
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On December 13 2023 21:01 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 20:44 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me. Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about. I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions. Please point out where I am incorrect. First of all screenshots can be faked. You are correct there is no video proof, smoking gun, etc.. He may super secretly be the nicest guy ever. Or he may be a monster. Or he is somewhere in the middle. Clearly he is fun to hang around with when it's other guys around. As you say for whatever reason he can't be bothered to address the issue publicly. So of course draw your own conclusions. Is BSL accepting any help from him acceptable? Was this the way to play it out? What community do we want? Some questions we may have to answer each for ourselves.
Ok, so in fact, judging by what you wrote. You dont actually know whether hes guilty? Am i correct?
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On December 13 2023 20:51 Gandi wrote:
Wow, LUCKY NOOB clearly pretending to be innocent to discredit real victims like me.
Also using emoji faces like it's funny to be sexually harassed as a kid
I'm happy to settle this in court, but for now it's best for you to go quiet, since presumption of innocence is not a thing anymore
Where are admins? Is it allowed on TL for sexual predators to freely deny public testimony of the victims?
You're really playing out this complete drivel of a comparison to illustrate an intellectually dishonest and indefensible point because profiteering influencers and media channels have hammered it into your head that this is, somehow, a big political problem. Embarrassing - please get a grip. Disregarding the actual fallacies of the argumentation, even on the most basic level there is no need to turn it into some perversion of the modern world. You can just look at this case on your own and see that you're playing defense to a weird creep who faces the "punishment" of - essentially a nothingburger that does not affect him in any real way - not being able to appear publicly on the broadcast of an old video game. Gross. Do not want. Simple as.
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On December 13 2023 20:55 kaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 20:37 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
EVERYBODY has some fucked up thoughts, some of the time. The difference is who ACTS on what and how one conducts themselves. Also what we want to stand for as a community.
Of course, I can't disagree with that. My point is that probably BW guys really have to step up if there's no one better to invite for a job. + Show Spoiler +On December 13 2023 20:37 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
random stranger
I'm not exactly a random stranger. I organized this one, as well as a number of local LANs in my country, and also do many different stuff in SC2. But I don't really follow TL forum trends, that's correct. Not like commenting on a forum is something valuable, though (no offense).
there's tons of people who are better at commentary than rapid in the community, off the top of my head, apologies if i missed anyone:
zzzero, artosis, bonyth, saiyan. listed those 4 first since they are physically at the event, dunno who else is there but i suspect basically anyone else there who knows about starcraft would do a better job.
people not at the event afaik:
scan, nyoken, machine, seriosity, razz, cadenzie, voddy, eonzerg, tasteless, docholiday, kwark, lml, diggity, jiraiya, jaeyun, koget, pato
and like, again this is just off the top of my head, i didn't go looking. we're not lacking in skilled english language commentary talent. it's not 2007 anymore.
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On December 13 2023 21:09 WolFix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 21:01 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 20:44 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me. Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about. I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions. Please point out where I am incorrect. First of all screenshots can be faked. You are correct there is no video proof, smoking gun, etc.. He may super secretly be the nicest guy ever. Or he may be a monster. Or he is somewhere in the middle. Clearly he is fun to hang around with when it's other guys around. As you say for whatever reason he can't be bothered to address the issue publicly. So of course draw your own conclusions. Is BSL accepting any help from him acceptable? Was this the way to play it out? What community do we want? Some questions we may have to answer each for ourselves. Ok, so in fact, judging by what you wrote. You dont actually know whether hes guilty? Am i correct?
Of course not. I make my own conclusions like yourself and everybody else based on the little we have to go on. I wish we had more to go on to be sure one way or another. But we don't.
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Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 21:02 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 20:46 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
See... It's actually not THAT hard to deny something that is false.
Wait... That is actually not quite true. Ofc we know that Gandi is trolling to point out that believing every story is stupid, but I wonder how would you defend from 20 women saying something like that. Would you still claim that its easy to deny lies when everybody in the internet sentenced you already? Like i said. Its impossible to get proof for ur innocence. I have no idea what was the truth in case of Rapid, but I can totally imagine a situation where a girl wanted to get his dick pic, and then, after the years she founds that offensive or like I mentioned earlier - she wanted to get some attention. We will never know the truth obviously, but as a society we cannot undoubtly believe that someone was sexusally harassed by another just because she/he said so. The fact is ppl got very emotional about this whole situation and i dont blame them. It sounds rather bad. On the other hand if u look at it from the objective perspective - his silence doesnt proof anything (even tho I - as emotional being - would also like to get explanations from him).
You defend yourself the same way you do vs one person. You present your side of the story as soon as possible (assume you are not barred from doing so by ongoing legal proceedings).
If there is a legal case then you just say you will address it all after it's settled.
I understand innocent til proven guilty, but this is not a court of law.
But hey bring on a 1000 fake accounts if that's your thing.
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On December 13 2023 21:18 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 21:02 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 20:46 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
See... It's actually not THAT hard to deny something that is false.
Wait... That is actually not quite true. Ofc we know that Gandi is trolling to point out that believing every story is stupid, but I wonder how would you defend from 20 women saying something like that. Would you still claim that its easy to deny lies when everybody in the internet sentenced you already? Like i said. Its impossible to get proof for ur innocence. I have no idea what was the truth in case of Rapid, but I can totally imagine a situation where a girl wanted to get his dick pic, and then, after the years she founds that offensive or like I mentioned earlier - she wanted to get some attention. We will never know the truth obviously, but as a society we cannot undoubtly believe that someone was sexusally harassed by another just because she/he said so. The fact is ppl got very emotional about this whole situation and i dont blame them. It sounds rather bad. On the other hand if u look at it from the objective perspective - his silence doesnt proof anything (even tho I - as emotional being - would also like to get explanations from him). You defend yourself the same way you do vs one person. You present your side of the story as soon as possible (assume you are not barred from doing so by ongoing legal proceedings). If there is a legal case then you just say you will address it all after it's settled. I understand innocent til proven guilty, but this is not a court of law. But hey bring on a 1000 fake accounts if that's your thing.
So you judge the truthfulness of the story by the speed of the response?
Do you guys ever think about what you type?
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On December 13 2023 20:55 kaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 20:37 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
EVERYBODY has some fucked up thoughts, some of the time. The difference is who ACTS on what and how one conducts themselves. Also what we want to stand for as a community.
Of course, I can't disagree with that. My point is that probably BW guys really have to step up if there's no one better to invite for a job. + Show Spoiler +On December 13 2023 20:37 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
random stranger
I'm not exactly a random stranger. I organized this one, as well as a number of local LANs in my country, and also do many different stuff in SC2. But I don't really follow TL forum trends, that's correct. Not like commenting on a forum is something valuable, though (no offense).
I'm glad we can agree on something. IF it's really that bad that the ONLY person who can save BSL is Rapid, then I think that should have been made clear prior the event. So we can all make our stance or peace with it.
You asked me for my sexual presences but you are ignoring my request for yours? And you didn't even buy me a dinner...
You are a random stranger (to me), regardless of your contributions to the community at large.
No offense taken. I think commenting on a forum CAN be valuable. It's not inherently invaluable (think protesters gathering by sharing their opinion and desire for change on any issue).
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On December 13 2023 21:22 Gandi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 21:18 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 21:02 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 20:46 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
See... It's actually not THAT hard to deny something that is false.
Wait... That is actually not quite true. Ofc we know that Gandi is trolling to point out that believing every story is stupid, but I wonder how would you defend from 20 women saying something like that. Would you still claim that its easy to deny lies when everybody in the internet sentenced you already? Like i said. Its impossible to get proof for ur innocence. I have no idea what was the truth in case of Rapid, but I can totally imagine a situation where a girl wanted to get his dick pic, and then, after the years she founds that offensive or like I mentioned earlier - she wanted to get some attention. We will never know the truth obviously, but as a society we cannot undoubtly believe that someone was sexusally harassed by another just because she/he said so. The fact is ppl got very emotional about this whole situation and i dont blame them. It sounds rather bad. On the other hand if u look at it from the objective perspective - his silence doesnt proof anything (even tho I - as emotional being - would also like to get explanations from him). You defend yourself the same way you do vs one person. You present your side of the story as soon as possible (assume you are not barred from doing so by ongoing legal proceedings). If there is a legal case then you just say you will address it all after it's settled. I understand innocent til proven guilty, but this is not a court of law. But hey bring on a 1000 fake accounts if that's your thing. So you judge the truthfulness of the story by the speed of the response? Do you guys ever think about what you type?
Do you ever think what you type?
Let me put to you this way:
1. "Have you ever killed someone?" - "No."
2. "Have you ever killed someone?" - "Forever silent."
I would assume 1 to be more likely to have never killed someone if no other evidence is available. I think I would be right more often than not in that case.
In the actual case leaving all big Discords and avoiding the topic does not scream to me "I care". It's not the person I want commentating in the event I'm watching.
Make your own conclusions just as I have.
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On December 13 2023 20:44 WolFix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me. Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about. I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions. Please point out where I am incorrect.
There is another topic that discusses Rapid and his alleged misconduct in detail. In this post I will: (i) address my personal interpretation on what this topic is about; and then (ii) get back to the question of the current allegations and being able to draw your own conclusions, finally, I will (iii) share my personal POV if anyone is interested in that too.
The purpose of this post
This post is about Zzzero as an organizer not (yet) addressing the issue after publicly denouncing Rapid on Twitter in 2020. It was unfortunate that we have not received anything before the event, but truth be told, we do not know the full story. Perhaps Zzzero did not know about this, or maybe he had other variables to consider, etc. The point is, nobody is condemning Zzzero's behaviour right now. Rather we are confused and would like to limit the impact that this situation might have on other (minor) leagues.
I love BSL and hope that both the tournament and its organizer achieve longevity and one day receive the recognition they truly deserve. However, I cannot support an organization that makes me question its integrity. With all my heart I hope that Zzzero will shed some light on this whole situation after the event, when he is back home and rested. I would like to know more of the details that led to this occurrence and then, as you say, be able to draw my own conclusions.
Fwiw I believe that this was all a misunderstanding or lack of foresight from one of the parties and, for me personally, acknowledging this would be enough.
The incident, the the accusations, and the response
Now, to answer your question directly: no, there is no hard evidence in the form of screenshots. Of course, you are free to draw your own conclusions as I have drawn my own. There are, however, facts that you can use to aid your decision making process.
I used to support Rapid when he was casting STPL and BSL, and believed that his casting style genuinely improved over time. When the first accusations started to appear I sincerely hoped that he will address them by either saying that they were not true, that he regrets his actions and will do better, or that he was at that time unable to comment on the events. Unfortunately, none of this happened. Regardless, let me reiterate the facts about this situation to the best of my knowledge:
1. Multiple streamers, public figures, came out and addressed the issue saying that they had experienced similar behaviour and had been put into such a situation by Rapid.
2. BSL, as an organization, distanced themselves from Rapid's behaviour and issued a post on Twitter where they said they treat this seriously and will cease their current and future business with Rapid.
3. Rapid failed to acknowledge any of the allegations against him.
Context: At that point he was a public figure in a lot of the BW communities, people that knew him reached out over discord asking about his personal view on the matter. None of these requests were addressed afaik, and instead he left all BW communities, deleted all of his twitch content and left the scene for good.
4. Three years after he had left the scene he reappears at a BSL celebratory event.
5. There is no official stand by either rapid or BSL about the situation from three years ago and why he was allowed to cover the casting of that BSL event during day one of the event, despite being denounced by BSL.
These are all the facts, as far as I am aware. You are free to draw your own conclusions and decide what you want to believe in. There has not been any legal case by either of the involved parties as far as I am aware.
If you are interested in my stance based on these facts here is my POV:
+ Show Spoiler +The fact that multiple public figures came forth, joining the allegations is evidence enough for me that this is something that ought to be addressed. I would have been more understanding if all people who accused Rapid were random accounts without many posts, or were created shortly before accusing him. However, that is not the case. The people that spoke out are real and you could trace their public connection with Rapid if you tried.
Rapid not addressing any of these and disappearing from the community after these things happened does not speak well of him. It can be believed that there is a connection around the timing of these allegations and his disappearance. Refusal to address that in any way is at best questionable and leaves more to be desired. Still, it was his decision at the time and we, as a community, respected this.
I am unaware if BSL, as an organization, decided to act preemptively trying to protect their reputation or if they had their own internal investigation before denouncing Rapid. However, the fact is that they did it. I, personally, would expect that once a public stance is issued banning a person the events of an organization, then a public stance about his return in the organization is also in order.
I have made my mind about the first issue, I am still waiting on more details before I can make my mind on the second and I hope that we, as a community, will receive these details this time.
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On December 13 2023 21:37 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 21:22 Gandi wrote:On December 13 2023 21:18 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 21:02 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 20:46 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
See... It's actually not THAT hard to deny something that is false.
Wait... That is actually not quite true. Ofc we know that Gandi is trolling to point out that believing every story is stupid, but I wonder how would you defend from 20 women saying something like that. Would you still claim that its easy to deny lies when everybody in the internet sentenced you already? Like i said. Its impossible to get proof for ur innocence. I have no idea what was the truth in case of Rapid, but I can totally imagine a situation where a girl wanted to get his dick pic, and then, after the years she founds that offensive or like I mentioned earlier - she wanted to get some attention. We will never know the truth obviously, but as a society we cannot undoubtly believe that someone was sexusally harassed by another just because she/he said so. The fact is ppl got very emotional about this whole situation and i dont blame them. It sounds rather bad. On the other hand if u look at it from the objective perspective - his silence doesnt proof anything (even tho I - as emotional being - would also like to get explanations from him). You defend yourself the same way you do vs one person. You present your side of the story as soon as possible (assume you are not barred from doing so by ongoing legal proceedings). If there is a legal case then you just say you will address it all after it's settled. I understand innocent til proven guilty, but this is not a court of law. But hey bring on a 1000 fake accounts if that's your thing. So you judge the truthfulness of the story by the speed of the response? Do you guys ever think about what you type? Do you ever think what you type? Let me put to you this way: 1. "Have you ever killed someone?" - "No." 2. "Have you ever killed someone?" - "Forever silent." I would assume 1 to be more likely to have never killed someone if no other evidence is available. I think I would be right more often than not in that case. In the actual case leaving all big Discords and avoiding the topic does not scream to me "I care". It's not the person I want commentating in the event I'm watching. Make your own conclusions just as I have.
If I was accused of killing anyone by you, I wouldn't reponse to someone that crazy at all. I woudn't feel obligated to answer to anyone that has trouble understanding logic 101. It doesn't make me murderer. It doesn't make me innocent. It doesn't mean anything.
Dude, for the sake of everyone's sanity, stop making a conclusions on your own.
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Is there any proof that any of my patreon/donation money to BSL actually went into organising this lan event? I wouldn't assume so.
Everyone here and in other thread has issue with Rapid casing BSL but the event was called Bombastic 25th Anniversary LAN, not Bombastic StarLeague. Are these two threads major misinformation and witch hunt?
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Netherlands4731 Posts
Guys, please read the related threads first and don't (mindlessly) spam this thread, and then read OP again before you post here. The goal of OP is to get an answer.
You may of course state your opinion here or show support to whichever side you believe is right. However, you don't need a dozen of posts to do so. Replying back and forth about small shit is not helpful, but just polluting the thread.
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Wait... That is actually not quite true. Ofc we know that Gandi is trolling to point out that believing every story is stupid, but I wonder how would you defend from 20 women saying something
Me too ! i belive there is a shadow cabal of angry women going around nuking down starcraft commentator internet reputation.
Those damn women realy.
Jesus this argument is hilarious.
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On December 13 2023 23:08 psd wrote:Show nested quote +Wait... That is actually not quite true. Ofc we know that Gandi is trolling to point out that believing every story is stupid, but I wonder how would you defend from 20 women saying something Me too ! i belive there is a shadow cabal of angry women going around nuking down starcraft commentator internet reputation. Those damn women realy. Jesus this argument is hilarious.
Glad you're finding entertainment in this. If posts like this continue to keep this topic at the top of the forum I'm ok with that. There's plenty of substance within this thread to read from like responses from guys like g5 who regularly keeps up with the community in a passive capacity, to tec27 who is the developer of shield battery.
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I'll talk from experience on this matter because I lived the baby version of this (maphack but bigger picture it's about trust/letting people around you down). We're at the grown up version of it now, they're both moral issues but of course the scale and impact are much different.. but I hope it'll help in some way.
The problem here is having to pick a side when really I don't think there is one, stuff like this should be examined case by case and the onus is on the accused to take action (to many this should be common sense but this point alone could cause divisiveness.. i think it's by far the best route, Johnny Depp = legend ^^). Before anything that's the first step and people's views will be pretty much set on the matter from that decision alone.
1 thing I've always regretted back in the day was not addressing my situation head on with an open letter to the community (I did write a letter before TSL2 but it was an internal letter to the TL staff, i should have made it public). I always wanted my actions to do the talking for me but in hindsight not being open about it left some ill will around with certain people I'm sure.
Back to this topic, yes it's a shitty situation because what we're talking about here is much bigger. Every accused person faces a life changing situation, some are rightfully accused and others aren't. I think many people arguing against stuff like this are thinking about all the other people who are wrongfully accused and have to deal with what ends up being a nightmare scenario (character assassination).
When matters like this stay in limbo it becomes bigger and starts to cause divisiveness/tribalism, which isn't healthy. It's not the same as back when we were kids because now we associate these situations with our other beliefs/values and that becomes our unyielding position.
I understand both point of views but this situation imo isn't as much about the person in question (it is but it's mainly about association and how it makes the supporters feel) but more about BSL. BSL is viewed as an organization (and let's be honest this is new to a lot of people and they're possibly learning on the fly), as an organization you carry the values of the entire community. You can have your views on this topic from an individual level but at an organizational level you have responsibilities/obligations to the people who support you.
It's obvious to see that many people in the community feel like they've been wronged but I think we should just take a step back and give ZZZero the time he needs to make his statement on the matter, I think he's earned that much from us.
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Russian Federation194 Posts
On December 13 2023 21:11 quaristice wrote:
there's tons of people who are better at commentary than rapid in the community, off the top of my head, apologies if i missed anyone:
zzzero, artosis, bonyth, saiyan. listed those 4 first since they are physically at the event, dunno who else is there but i suspect basically anyone else there who knows about starcraft would do a better job.
Everybody think of commentating in the first place. But actually, commentating is the less and easiest part of work that has to be done on LAN. You can notice that Rus_Brain listed the other work Rapid did too.
Anyway, I'm not there and I can't tell what competencies are required in particular. All in all, usually on LANs, you need someone who knows what to do, not someone who has to be told what to do. And not someone who's just good at speaking in a microphone. And preferably, if you are not flooded with money from SA or whoever, you also need it for nearly free. And here is where the list is shrinking.
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On December 13 2023 23:40 TT1 wrote:
I'll talk from experience on this matter because I lived the baby version of this (maphack but bigger picture it's about trust/letting people around you down). We're at the grown up version of it now, they're both moral issues but of course the scale and impact are much different.. but I hope it'll help in some way.
The problem here is having to pick a side when really I don't think there is one, stuff like this should be examined case by case and the onus is on the accused to take action (to many this should be common sense but this point alone could cause divisiveness.. i think it's by far the best route, Johnny Depp = legend ^^). Before anything that's the first step and people's views will be pretty much set on the matter from that decision alone.
1 thing I've always regretted back in the day was not addressing my situation head on with an open letter to the community (I did write a letter before TSL2 but it was an internal letter to the TL staff, i should have made it public). I always wanted my actions to do the talking for me but in hindsight not being open about it left some ill will around with certain people I'm sure.
Back to this topic, yes it's a shitty situation because what we're talking about here is much bigger. Every accused person faces a life changing situation, some are rightfully accused and others aren't. I think many people arguing against stuff like this are thinking about all the other people who are wrongfully accused and have to deal with what ends up being a nightmare scenario (character assassination).
When matters like this stay in limbo it becomes bigger and starts to cause divisiveness/tribalism, which isn't healthy. It's not the same as back when we were kids because now we associate these situations with our other beliefs/values and that becomes our unyielding position.
I understand both point of views but this situation imo isn't as much about the person in question (it is but it's mainly about association and how it makes the supporters feel) but more about BSL. BSL is viewed as an organization (and let's be honest this is new to a lot of people and they're possibly learning on the fly), as an organization you carry the values of the entire community. You can have your views on this topic from an individual level but at an organizational level you have responsibilities/obligations to the people who support you.
It's obvious to see that many people in the community feel like they've been wronged but I think we should just take a step back and give ZZZero the time he needs to make his statement on the matter, I think he's earned that much from us.
xD Respect, and yes, it's a complicated matter.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 13 2023 12:36 Rus_Brain wrote:It is quite evident to me that those undersigned were well aware of ZZZero's presence in Phuket until this week's end, engaged in a demanding schedule to provide top-tier content to a multi-hundred audience. Nevertheless, there appeared to be a desire to divert ZZZero's attention to satisfy the demands of a vocal minority seeking a statement. When an immediate response was not forthcoming, they publicly addressed the matter without affording ZZZero an opportunity to clarify. The act of plotting behind one's back raises genuine concerns regarding integrity. I myself took note of the ongoing discussions regarding the Rapid rage topic on this forum. In response, I chose to shield ZZZero from this discourse for a few compelling reasons: Firstly, I sought to prevent any distractions that might impede his commitment to delivering online content. I offered him the option of refraining from casting this tournament from the very beginning, however, ZZZero is a man of his word, and he proceeded with the online cast as he comitted years ago. Secondly, I aimed to safeguard ZZZero's emotional well-being and overall mood, unti at least he transit from the warmth of Phuket to the harsh winter in Poland. While I do hold in high regard the combined collective represented in this platform, it appears that some may lack firsthand experience in organizing events of such a scale, let alone offline tournaments. One must question the basis for calling for someone's removal solely on the grounds of criticism in a forum. The offline segment of the tournament fell under my purview, with Rapid providing valuable support by facilitating the participation of Sharp and offering outstanding photography services, among other contributions. It would be a misjudgment to conclude that acknowledging this part of the statement absolves Rapid of any responsibility for his past actions. However, making these past actions public can serve as a means of accountability, at least until such actions might potentially recur. Let me now consider the situation from an alternative perspective. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that every facet of the event was ZZZero's sole responsibility. In such a scenario, overlooking Rapid's involvement as a caster could be viewed as a form of negligence. Having had the privilege of collaborating with some of you in the past, however, I am aware that certain individuals have displayed a level of neglect in fulfilling their responsibilities that could have warranted legal action. In comparison, ZZZero's lapses appear far less severe. In the words of the Bible, as found in Matthew 7:1 Show nested quote +"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" it is essential to reflect upon our own actions before casting judgment upon others. As for matters of finance, let us not forget that, in the grand scheme of existence, money is but a fleeting concern. When we depart this world, our possessions will hold no sway. And for those who may have missed it, Geoff, at the very least, has departed during the time from the 20th Anniversary to the 25th Anniversary. Let us strive for understanding, empathy, and unity in our interactions, both online and offline.
All I can say to you is, fuck off. Imagine serious bringing Bible verses and even uttering Geoff's name to try to score some sympathy points. Actually fuck off, what a disgusting person you are for trying to pull that shit.
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@rus_brain: people in the list do not have offline tournament experience? Really? REALLY? You hear that Airn and Jealous? Also what is WCG anyway amirite? What are national team tournament LANs? I had bigger LANs in my student dorms in grad school than this, get real.
Poor Zzzero couldnt check anything online with barely 20ppl and 4 groups played over 4 days? Why? Did you take his phone from him? Is that how you shielded him? Was ZZZero not even raising the possibility this might be a terrible decision to you?
You re comparing a cute little LAN of barely 20ppl in Thailand in a place you essentially own, where several people including your caster made their own travel plan to attend, with a few streams, to actual past international (or indeed national) tournaments? Hilarious stuff. Keep telling yourself that~
BSL isnt even top 3 foreign tournament in terms of numbers of players (and i m not even counting china), and that's in this day and age of a much reduced community size. The one thing it leads is in having money, so we d expect a higher standard, and yet the tournament rules are terrible, organization is amateur at best and not on par with most other tournaments, most of them ran for free on a voluntary basis by people with full time jobs and with kids.
It s good that you posted to explain the situation a bit more. But ZZZero is a responsible adult (or so I hope) and should be able to think for himself. And if he wasn't for whatever reason then say it here it was your idea, you forced ZZZero into it against his strong wishes by presenting a fait accompli, and this event was 100% you giving the orders with ZZZero as your underling. Is that what it is?
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I've done loose shits that are better for the BW community than Rapid.
On December 13 2023 12:36 Rus_Brain wrote:
It is quite evident to me that those undersigned were well aware of ZZZero's presence in Phuket until this week's end, engaged in a demanding schedule to provide top-tier content to a multi-hundred audience. Nevertheless, there appeared to be a desire to divert ZZZero's attention to satisfy the demands of a vocal minority seeking a statement. When an immediate response was not forthcoming, they publicly addressed the matter without affording ZZZero an opportunity to clarify. The act of plotting behind one's back raises genuine concerns regarding integrity.
I myself took note of the ongoing discussions regarding the Rapid rage topic on this forum. In response, I chose to shield ZZZero from this discourse for a few compelling reasons:
Firstly, I sought to prevent any distractions that might impede his commitment to delivering online content. I offered him the option of refraining from casting this tournament from the very beginning, however, ZZZero is a man of his word, and he proceeded with the online cast as he comitted years ago.
Secondly, I aimed to safeguard ZZZero's emotional well-being and overall mood, unti at least he transit from the warmth of Phuket to the harsh winter in Poland.
Shielding ZZZero by *checks notes* shitposting and taking swipes at other community members. Your shielding made ZZZero look worse. If Rapid coming to the event was your decision you could just own it and say ZZZero had nothing to do with it and that would protect him better.
On December 13 2023 20:44 WolFix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me. Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about. I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions. Please point out where I am incorrect.
Even in a court of law, testimony is considered direct evidence, and if it isn't contradicted by other evidence is sufficient to conclude guilt. That multiple corroborating testimonies of Rapid's guilt across three communities is insufficient evidence just indicates bad faith, not any desire to treat people as innocent until proven guilty.
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Even in a court of law, testimony is considered direct evidence, and if it isn't contradicted by other evidence is sufficient to conclude guilt. That multiple corroborating testimonies of Rapid's guilt across three communities is insufficient evidence just indicates bad faith, not any desire to treat people as innocent until proven guilty.
This is false. It requires more than just not being contradicted by real evidence.
It has to be given under oath and requires open court. Only then becomes "testimonial evidence" - not even a real evidence, because its worth is still based on its credibility.
It works like that in US, Poland and probably in whole western world.
What we get is just some story, not a direct evidence. Not even a testimony itself.
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On December 14 2023 02:06 Gandi wrote:Show nested quote +
Even in a court of law, testimony is considered direct evidence, and if it isn't contradicted by other evidence is sufficient to conclude guilt. That multiple corroborating testimonies of Rapid's guilt across three communities is insufficient evidence just indicates bad faith, not any desire to treat people as innocent until proven guilty.
This is false. It requires more than just not being contradicted by real evidence. It has to be given under oath and requires open court. Only then becomes "testimonial evidence" - not even a real evidence, because its worth is still based on its credibility. It works like that in US, Poland and probably in whole western world. What we get is just some story, not a direct evidence. Not even a testimony itself.
Tell us Gandi I want to hear your opinion. Do you think Rapid is a good person? If it's ambiguous how many opportunities should a person get?
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United States10081 Posts
On December 14 2023 02:06 Gandi wrote:Show nested quote +
Even in a court of law, testimony is considered direct evidence, and if it isn't contradicted by other evidence is sufficient to conclude guilt. That multiple corroborating testimonies of Rapid's guilt across three communities is insufficient evidence just indicates bad faith, not any desire to treat people as innocent until proven guilty.
This is false. It requires more than just not being contradicted by real evidence. It has to be given under oath and requires open court. Only then becomes "testimonial evidence" - not even a real evidence, because its worth is still based on its credibility. It works like that in US, Poland and probably in whole western world. What we get is just some story, not a direct evidence. Not even a testimony itself.
Jesus christ this isn't a court of law. This is the court of public perception and the community. The burden of proof is not the same in a court room get over your head. I need some @BadLegalTakes from twitter in here to make a mockery out of people like you who keep bringing up this point over and over again as if we somehow need to find a judge and hash this out.
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Legal professional here, the bad legal takes are making my head spin lol.
Not really sure what the point of discussing legal admissibility of evidence is here, internet situations like these are notoriously difficult from a legal standpoint, especially regarding jurisdiction and enforcement.
my two cents is that focusing on the legal details is pointless, people can "legally" do a whole bunch of things. Legal does not equal good. There are plenty of "legal" actions that are bad or unwise.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 14 2023 02:41 redknights wrote:
Legal professional here, the bad legal takes are making my head spin lol.
Not really sure what the point of discussing legal admissibility of evidence is here, internet situations like these are notoriously difficult from a legal standpoint, especially regarding jurisdiction and enforcement.
my two cents is that focusing on the legal details is pointless, people can "legally" do a whole bunch of things. Legal does not equal good. There are plenty of "legal" actions that are bad or unwise.
Not to mention not even making any response or reaction is analogous to not answering a summons and thus a directed verdict anyways.
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Tell us Gandi I want to hear your opinion. Do you think Rapid is a good person? If it's ambiguous how many opportunities should a person get?
I don't know. I'm no authority to judge, but certainly people here have no issue with witchhunt and just want to see blood. Even if someone MIGHT be falsely accused. You all have no issue with ruining peoples life based on opinion or emotions.
Jesus christ this isn't a court of law. This is the court of public perception and the community. The burden of proof is not the same in a court room get over your head. I need some @BadLegalTakes from twitter in here to make a mockery out of people like you who keep bringing up this point over and over again as if we somehow need to find a judge and hash this out.
I'm not the one who started the court arugment.
On December 14 2023 02:30 JimmiC wrote:
Look at his post count, stop feeding the trolls.
We already had a guy that based the truthfulness on response speed. Now we have one that bases it on how much shitposts you have created.
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On December 14 2023 02:50 Gandi wrote:Show nested quote +
Tell us Gandi I want to hear your opinion. Do you think Rapid is a good person? If it's ambiguous how many opportunities should a person get?
I don't know. I'm no authority to judge, but certainly people here have no issue with witchhunt and just want to see blood. Even if someone MIGHT be falsely accused. You all have no issue with ruining peoples life based on opinion or emotions. Show nested quote +
Jesus christ this isn't a court of law. This is the court of public perception and the community. The burden of proof is not the same in a court room get over your head. I need some @BadLegalTakes from twitter in here to make a mockery out of people like you who keep bringing up this point over and over again as if we somehow need to find a judge and hash this out.
I'm not the one who started the court arugment. Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 02:30 JimmiC wrote:
Look at his post count, stop feeding the trolls. We already had a guy that based the truthfulness on response speed. Now we have one that bases it on how much shitposts you have created.
Is there a literacy problem in Poland?
The OP isn't arguing whether or not Rapid s ban was fair in the first place. This is an argument you d have to bring to Zzzero about his decision back then. Feel free to bump those threads, in fact where were all of you at the time? Why now and not then?
But i highly doubt stopping someone from casting after they didnt anyway for 3+ years is ruining their lives. But again this is besides the point.
However since none of you seem to be willing to discuss the actual point, it s probably because you know it is correct.
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Holy shit, some people in this thread are dumb....
Lol all the people attacking ZZZero in this thread are absolutely insane and need to get down on earth. Like for real...
Was it a horrible idea to let Rapid into the event? Yes, for sure. No doubt in that and I am sure ZZZero is well aware of this by now.
Does this really warrant the flak towards ZZZero though? For fucks sake no. And anybody saying dumb shit like "BSL is amateur tournament", "not even top 3" or some other stupid ass statement, need to wake the fuck up...
The most important thing to say is: Thank you ZZZero for bringing us such a nice tournament and keeping foreign BW alive. Please do not invite ppl like Rapid anymore! But thank you anyway for all the hard work and effort you put into our mutual hobby, even quitting your day job to keep supporting Broodwar.
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Is there a literacy problem in Poland?
Any other racist comment? I think it's enough internet for you today.
Apart from me being polish I'm also black. Want to make comment about black people being unable to read too?
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On December 14 2023 03:05 chrisolo wrote:
Holy shit, some people in this thread are dumb....
Lol all the people attacking ZZZero in this thread are absolutely insane and need to get down on earth. Like for real...
Was it a horrible idea to let Rapid into the event? Yes, for sure. No doubt in that and I am sure ZZZero is well aware of this by now.
Does this really warrant the flak towards ZZZero though? For fucks sake no. And anybody saying dumb shit like "BSL is amateur tournament", "not even top 3" or some other stupid ass statement, need to wake the fuck up...
The most important thing to say is: Thank you ZZZero for bringing us such a nice tournament and keeping foreign BW alive. Please do not invite ppl like Rapid anymore! But thank you anyway for all the hard work and effort you put into our mutual hobby, even quitting your day job to keep supporting Broodwar.
Who are those people attacking ZZZero? I literally don't see any posts attacking him.
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On December 14 2023 03:05 chrisolo wrote:
Holy shit, some people in this thread are dumb....
Lol all the people attacking ZZZero in this thread are absolutely insane and need to get down on earth. Like for real...
Was it a horrible idea to let Rapid into the event? Yes, for sure. No doubt in that and I am sure ZZZero is well aware of this by now.
Does this really warrant the flak towards ZZZero though? For fucks sake no. And anybody saying dumb shit like "BSL is amateur tournament", "not even top 3" or some other stupid ass statement, need to wake the fuck up...
The most important thing to say is: Thank you ZZZero for bringing us such a nice tournament and keeping foreign BW alive. Please do not invite ppl like Rapid anymore! But thank you anyway for all the hard work and effort you put into our mutual hobby, even quitting your day job to keep supporting Broodwar.
Foreign BW was alive before BSL and it will be alive after it.
Do you contest the activity numbers?
Taking a radical life decision doesn't mean it s right or even good, but it isnt my place to judge that,only ZZZero knows.
Leadership comes with responsibility, now it may not be fair and I would tend to agree, but it is the way it is. This doesn't invalidate everything Zzzero has done, but it puts a stain now on this tournament and the future until a statement can remove it, at least partially.
Doing good things doesn't shield you from your mistakes. You own up to them and then live with the consequences.
Btw we are all in charge of our respective tournaments, it is our decision and right to decide where and how we spend our time for BW. We don't want to spend it on BSL until this is fixed. ZZZero is entirely free to ignore it and live with that if he decides so.
Every decision carries consequences, this is one of them.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 14 2023 03:05 chrisolo wrote:
Holy shit, some people in this thread are dumb....
Lol all the people attacking ZZZero in this thread are absolutely insane and need to get down on earth. Like for real...
Was it a horrible idea to let Rapid into the event? Yes, for sure. No doubt in that and I am sure ZZZero is well aware of this by now.
Does this really warrant the flak towards ZZZero though? For fucks sake no. And anybody saying dumb shit like "BSL is amateur tournament", "not even top 3" or some other stupid ass statement, need to wake the fuck up...
The most important thing to say is: Thank you ZZZero for bringing us such a nice tournament and keeping foreign BW alive. Please do not invite ppl like Rapid anymore! But thank you anyway for all the hard work and effort you put into our mutual hobby, even quitting your day job to keep supporting Broodwar.
Just because you do a good thing doesn’t absolve you of criticism. Also, people are donating their money and volunteering their time. They should have an idea of what their money and time is being used for.
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On December 14 2023 03:05 Gandi wrote:Any other racist comment? I think it's enough internet for you today. Apart from me being polish I'm also black. Want to make comment about black people being unable to read too?
Very colorful of you to play the race card when issue its been framed about literacy/education more like chauvinism than the color of your skin nor the place you where born, religion nor geo politics, is more about if you care or not about woman feeling safe in your online/offline events like you as equals.
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On December 14 2023 03:25 jchassoul wrote:
Very colorful of you to play the race card when issue its been framed about literacy/education you know chauvinism.
Do you know what the education bias is? Maybe I have some difficulties reading or writing, because in my black neighbour none gave a crap about little black people like me and we never had teachers taking care of us?
As a woke people promoting cancel culture you seem to be very racist
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Rus_Brain, how dare you come on the attack about this post being made. That makes me so, so angry. You guys need to get immediately onto taking this seriously, explain in full what has happened at the earliest possible opportunity, and apologise for almost every step you have taken.
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On December 14 2023 02:06 Gandi wrote:Show nested quote +
Even in a court of law, testimony is considered direct evidence, and if it isn't contradicted by other evidence is sufficient to conclude guilt. That multiple corroborating testimonies of Rapid's guilt across three communities is insufficient evidence just indicates bad faith, not any desire to treat people as innocent until proven guilty.
This is false. It requires more than just not being contradicted by real evidence. It has to be given under oath and requires open court. Only then becomes "testimonial evidence" - not even a real evidence, because its worth is still based on its credibility. It works like that in US, Poland and probably in whole western world. What we get is just some story, not a direct evidence. Not even a testimony itself.
Point isn't we have enough to convict him, it's the standard of evidence for "he shouldn't be allowed into the BW community" is more stringent than if they brought a case and gave the same testimony in court. But I think you know that 
I have to assume people talking about Rapid's life getting ruined have nothing else going on besides BW because not getting to be part of a relatively tiny gaming scene is not life ruining by any stretch of the imagination to anyone who's even seen grass.
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the gandi dude is the most obvious troll and ur keeping it up lmao
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Can any admin nuke and ban those racists or should I report a hate crime?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 14 2023 04:50 Gandi wrote:
Can any admin nuke and ban those racists or should I report a hate crime?
All of your posts are troll, and you're just instigating race wars. Nothing wrong with Poland itself. Just a commentary about how the majority of polish people are trying to defend Rapid. Not that any of their posts are anything but "Lets not criticize someone because their actions don't define who they are." That's bullshit and you're doing a hell of a job trying to hide behind the innocent until proven guilty motif which again is only for the U.S. Legal system. This isn't a court. This is a community of people asking questions to answers we probably will never get. Rapid ,if history repeats, will disappear for another 3-4 years until he surfaces in another community. Where he will probably get called out again and go back to hiding. It's probably really exhausting for him, and I empathize with that.
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On December 13 2023 21:43 y2kid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 20:44 WolFix wrote:On December 13 2023 19:54 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:On December 13 2023 19:28 WolFix wrote:
Does anyone gathered consolideted proofs for Rapid's behavior? Id like to verify whether the matter with him is really that serious as ppl claim.
Publicly unaddressed by the man himself to this day:https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr9kmnhttps://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/hf14td/rapid_accused_of_sexual_misconduct_by_several/From the other thread, posted yesterday:fishmarketer Profile PM Joined December 2023 1 Post Last Edited: 2023-12-12 23:55:05 19 minutes ago #160 Made an account to post this, but I don't know if it'll go through. I was 16 or 17 when he sent me a dick pic in the mirror on Discord, I don't remember. I was a dummy back then and thought talking to a dude casting my favorite game across the globe was super cool, but looking back at it I was taken advantage of. I didn't know he was doing that to every girl he came across at the time and that's what makes me angry. I don't want to talk about it, I just want people to know. I don't know why I didn't say anything back then but I don't want to talk about it anymore so please don't message me. Hm ok, so i just want to confirm this: Its not like we have proofs, screenshots, anything. We have stories which - I have no fucking idea why - were not addressed. Rapid apparently doesnt care about his reputation, is guilty or there is another reason i dont know about. I dont want to defend Rapid. Id like to stay with the facts so I can draw out my own conclusions. Please point out where I am incorrect. There is another topic that discusses Rapid and his alleged misconduct in detail. In this post I will: (i) address my personal interpretation on what this topic is about; and then (ii) get back to the question of the current allegations and being able to draw your own conclusions, finally, I will (iii) share my personal POV if anyone is interested in that too. The purpose of this postThis post is about Zzzero as an organizer not (yet) addressing the issue after publicly denouncing Rapid on Twitter in 2020. It was unfortunate that we have not received anything before the event, but truth be told, we do not know the full story. Perhaps Zzzero did not know about this, or maybe he had other variables to consider, etc. The point is, nobody is condemning Zzzero's behaviour right now. Rather we are confused and would like to limit the impact that this situation might have on other (minor) leagues. I love BSL and hope that both the tournament and its organizer achieve longevity and one day receive the recognition they truly deserve. However, I cannot support an organization that makes me question its integrity. With all my heart I hope that Zzzero will shed some light on this whole situation after the event, when he is back home and rested. I would like to know more of the details that led to this occurrence and then, as you say, be able to draw my own conclusions. Fwiw I believe that this was all a misunderstanding or lack of foresight from one of the parties and, for me personally, acknowledging this would be enough. The incident, the the accusations, and the responseNow, to answer your question directly: no, there is no hard evidence in the form of screenshots. Of course, you are free to draw your own conclusions as I have drawn my own. There are, however, facts that you can use to aid your decision making process. I used to support Rapid when he was casting STPL and BSL, and believed that his casting style genuinely improved over time. When the first accusations started to appear I sincerely hoped that he will address them by either saying that they were not true, that he regrets his actions and will do better, or that he was at that time unable to comment on the events. Unfortunately, none of this happened. Regardless, let me reiterate the facts about this situation to the best of my knowledge: 1. Multiple streamers, public figures, came out and addressed the issue saying that they had experienced similar behaviour and had been put into such a situation by Rapid. 2. BSL, as an organization, distanced themselves from Rapid's behaviour and issued a post on Twitter where they said they treat this seriously and will cease their current and future business with Rapid. 3. Rapid failed to acknowledge any of the allegations against him. Context: At that point he was a public figure in a lot of the BW communities, people that knew him reached out over discord asking about his personal view on the matter. None of these requests were addressed afaik, and instead he left all BW communities, deleted all of his twitch content and left the scene for good. 4. Three years after he had left the scene he reappears at a BSL celebratory event. 5. There is no official stand by either rapid or BSL about the situation from three years ago and why he was allowed to cover the casting of that BSL event during day one of the event, despite being denounced by BSL. These are all the facts, as far as I am aware. You are free to draw your own conclusions and decide what you want to believe in. There has not been any legal case by either of the involved parties as far as I am aware. If you are interested in my stance based on these facts here is my POV: + Show Spoiler +The fact that multiple public figures came forth, joining the allegations is evidence enough for me that this is something that ought to be addressed. I would have been more understanding if all people who accused Rapid were random accounts without many posts, or were created shortly before accusing him. However, that is not the case. The people that spoke out are real and you could trace their public connection with Rapid if you tried.
Rapid not addressing any of these and disappearing from the community after these things happened does not speak well of him. It can be believed that there is a connection around the timing of these allegations and his disappearance. Refusal to address that in any way is at best questionable and leaves more to be desired. Still, it was his decision at the time and we, as a community, respected this.
I am unaware if BSL, as an organization, decided to act preemptively trying to protect their reputation or if they had their own internal investigation before denouncing Rapid. However, the fact is that they did it. I, personally, would expect that once a public stance is issued banning a person the events of an organization, then a public stance about his return in the organization is also in order.
I have made my mind about the first issue, I am still waiting on more details before I can make my mind on the second and I hope that we, as a community, will receive these details this time.
I think i read almost every comment from this thread and found y2kid's comment to be the most well thought out and informative on the topic. I understand both sides of people being rightfully discontent with Rapid's unexplained reappearance and people feeling there are more unknowns due to the lack of Rapid's story to have a better judgement of what happened between him and the victims online. Rapid would've made his situation much better by simply explaining his side of the story and maybe admitting that he was wrong and he is sorry for what he did and will do better in the future. We are all human and we all make mistakes, but we also need to take accountability for those mistakes. I am sure ZZZero will give his view soon enough and will clear up the intentions on BSL's side, we already have Rus_Brain's view. It's good that this story was not swepped under the rug and that we as a community empathize with victims of inappropriate sexually aggressive behaviour or any mentally/physically damaging behaviour towards others. It's also good that we don't want to jump to conclusions without enough information and want to make sure that nobody is accused of something without sufficient credible information.
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On December 14 2023 05:50 art_of_turtle wrote: the innocent until proven guilty motif which again is only for the U.S. Legal system.
Is it really? https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/48-presumption-innocence-and-right-defence
On December 14 2023 05:51 BulgarianToss wrote: It's also good that we don't want to jump to conclusions without enough information and want to make sure that nobody is accused of something without sufficient credible information.
I think this "community statement" and removing link to live stream was jumping to conclusions. But I agree with you that some comments like y2kid's are very reasonable and I'm positive ZZZero will be heard when he decides to comment.
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On December 14 2023 06:16 Chaosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 05:50 art_of_turtle wrote: the innocent until proven guilty motif which again is only for the U.S. Legal system. Is it really? https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/48-presumption-innocence-and-right-defenceShow nested quote +On December 14 2023 05:51 BulgarianToss wrote: It's also good that we don't want to jump to conclusions without enough information and want to make sure that nobody is accused of something without sufficient credible information. I think this "community statement" and removing link to live stream was jumping to conclusions. But I agree with you that some comments like y2kid's are very reasonable and I'm positive ZZZero will be heard when he decides to comment.
He will be heard. That is what the statement says. We pause support until a statement is made. Hopefully sooner rather than later, but this is not an instant termination of all work and support for zzzero, just a pause while he collects his thoughts.
As others have said, we do owe him that much for all he did and it is my personal wish that we can put this behind us, uphold our standards and grow from there to unleash all the potential BSL has.
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People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
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On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
I greatly appreciate what you've done for BSL, and understand it's probably very frustrating to see many criticizing/complaining against the organization who haven't done 1/1000 of what you have. But, let's be clear here, it's not the people complaining who are putting those many years of efforts in jeopardy.
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Honestly if you are struggling with money, go find a job or something, BW isn't in the high days anymore, this should be just a hobby if you have free time to support the community kind of thing tbh, just my 5 cents. There is even more criticism and skeptism something like this happens if you are short on money, arn't that obvious?
Honestly, who cares about BSL could be a very small fraction, to a lot of people who play the game still, only cares with the friend and actual community they play with.
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On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
This is a very condescending tone. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you learn that it only takes for good people to do nothing for bad actors to thrive. Without a doubt I believe Rapid to be a bad actor. His inaction to deny accusations or accept them is all I need to know that he is a person without any integrity. therefore any acts of decency will not be in good faith. He will do anything to skirt responsibility. That's who you're defending so vehemently.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts.
A ton of people who actually did things to help the scene are complaining. Who are you to speak to us like we did nothing? And it isn’t us who are jeopardizing the scene, maybe look at the people who actually caused this in the first place.
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On December 14 2023 08:56 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 07:36 purepat wrote:
People around BSL - we are rather small community, where we are doing miracles to makes tournaments funded. Where people are sacrificing a lot to keep BW scene alive. I have personally spent quiet a lot of money to help to keep BW which we love so much - to it keep and running. And its funny and disgusting at the same time - that now there is so many haters(white knights) who never did anything to our small scene, ale complaining so much. You did nothing, completely nothing yet you are first with with mouth full of sh*t. Jeopardising our many years efforts. A ton of people who actually did things to help the scene are complaining. Who are you to speak to us like we did nothing? And it isn’t us who are jeopardizing the scene, maybe look at the people who actually caused this in the first place.
Yes, this.
Fuck off saying that the people complaining don't contribute. I've spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars of my own money working on and running things for BW. I, pretty justifiably in my opinion, don't want people throwing away all of the work I put into this stuff by bringing back people into the scene who have caused a ton of harm and resulted in many people feeling like they don't belong here, without even giving us so much as a single reason why his ban should have been lifted. People don't get to sidestep rules and morals by bribing someone at the top.
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I haven't posted here for awhile and I haven't put salt in the wounds of brain&his fellow pro-russian-nationalist-warfare-camp after I stood up for keeping that stuff out of BW and after the fact that russia invaded ukraine.
But brain's post here and some of his fellows' are again off the charts - citing the bible while attacking people who want to keep sexual misconduct out of their community...
c'mon TL - just ban him and this bs-people.
nobody needs this bs - BSL doesn't justify it at all. BW at highest levels is played in Korea.
While I appreciate the organisational efforts in putting together leagues, ladders, etc, I wouldn't care if I never heard of BSL or any other event organized or funded by pro-warfare&sexists again. Let them run their own network - BW-fans don't need them.
I knew early TL-folks personally and played with them a ton. Think of what TL stands for.
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edited: not worth it. Be well y all
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This thread is insane to me.
I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either.
So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time.
I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical.
Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs.
Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me.
User was warned for this post.
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On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote:
This thread is insane to me.
I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either.
So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time.
I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical.
Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs.
Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me.
Most Brood war interactions shifted away from TL unless there's news or people watching vods and tournaments. Much of the conversations are still on battlenet and discords which there are plenty of in the brood war scene. This scene compared to most games is still small, unless you're talking about the Korean scene which is still the most competitive in the world.
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You haven't read the thread at all if you think zzzero doesn't know his history, get the hell off your high horse pretending to be this paragon of neutrality and wisdom when you aren't even going to put in the bare minimum effort.
On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote:
This thread is insane to me.
I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either.
So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time.
I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical.
Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs.
Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me.
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United States10081 Posts
On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote:
This thread is insane to me.
I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either.
So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time.
I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical.
Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs.
Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me.
Most people are simply calling for some communication from either Rapid, or from ZZZero himself. The fact that people are defending him causes people to respond more forcefully bringing up the allegations. The fact that Rapid hasn't said ANYTHING, not a peep about the allegations speaks volumes. If he had simply said, I never did this. Or, I learned from my mistake, everything would've been done and dusted.
With regards to the allegations themselves, let's simply think about it from the most simple explanation. Do we think the people who have brought the allegations are lying? Or do we think that Rapid is actually guilty of what is alleged.
There were multiple people who alleged pretty much the exact same story. This also spanned multiple games (League, SC1, SC2). Do we really think that MULTIPLE PEOPLE somehow collaborated to fabricate a story? Or that one person actually had a story, and others wanted to jump on and make up their own story because they think Rapid is an easy target? Or do we think that Rapid actually did what he did? Idk, of course we don't have the damning proof. But as mentioned countless times, this isn't a court room, beyond a reasonable doubt is not a standard that we follow, and the court of public perception requires far less evidence.
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On December 14 2023 11:41 Smorrie wrote:
This thread is insane to me.
I did not conduct any research outside of the information in these threads and I doubt the majority of the people in these threads have done so either.
So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about. The thread generates more engagement and views in a day than a brood war post does in a months time.
I don't know anything about Rapid. I've seen some allegations and a lot of heresay, but proof is lacking. No pictures of his giant cock, no screenshots of any DM's, no videos, no pictures. I fully believe this guy is a creeper, but there is a lot of difference between misbehaving, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment, sexual harassment of a minor and sexual abuse. This guy is publicly getting charged for all of them. Of course this fully caused by his own actions and by not ever addressing any of it. Attempting to maintain a public role under these circumstances seems nonsensical.
Then there's ZZZero, who let Rapid cast his tournament while knowing about Rapid's history. Some people have decided this guy needs to bite the dust and face public tribunal to redeem himself. A harder punishment is being rolled out for him rather than Rapid himself. This seemingly manifested without any clear knowledge about recent events and it also seems no reasonable attempts have been made to hear him out privately. This all conceptualized within 24hrs.
Obviously sexual misconduct is a big no. But as a lot of you are out here with your pitch forks, reading and posting about a community that most of you otherwise hardly engage into, remember that there hardly are any details available and really not much is known about this at all. BSL as a brand & tournament is being taken down and eating stray bullets without any issues. That is insane. In the end, most of you know jack shit about any of it, just like me.
If you're going to try to summarize the thread, perhaps you should actually read it first. Nobody is calling for "a harder punishment [...] than Rapid himself" for ZZZero. The very OP of this thread is the thing we have signed onto, it has a very specific and clear requirement:
On December 13 2023 05:55 WGT-Baal wrote:
Until a satisfactory statement is made from BSL, we will be pausing all partnerships with the organization.
Is wanting a statement about how and why this happened a huge punishment? Really?
You say yourself that "hardly any details are known" and that's what we want fixed. Nobody can properly decide how to treat this situation until we know what exactly happened and why, and that is why it is imperative that ZZZero and BSL give that statement. Rus_Brain's "statement" was obviously not acceptable to the majority of people here, and I sure hope that's not representative of how ZZZero feels, but obviously we can't know that until ZZZero says something
Quit shitting on people that want the community to be a better, more welcoming place, where tournament organizers are transparent and keep their own rules. If BSL didn't want their brand tarnished perhaps they shouldn't have employed Rapid for the tournament, I hardly see how that is the fault of the people upset about it.
And for the record...
So here we are, everyone is coming out of the woodworks to chip in on a subject they hardly know anything about.
This is you. Did this thread really need your input? If you know nothing about the subject then maybe just quit typing and let the people that have some familiarity with it talk.
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Some surprisingly reasonable responses here. As much as I still think most of you are way too quick to call Rapid a "sexual predator" and the entire case still looks feeble as hell, I do think it is a very fair point that we should get a discussion going with people in question - is there a plan to achieve that? Will there be any attempt to contact Rapid and Zzzero or is it just this thread?
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On December 14 2023 22:08 ShadPro wrote:
Some surprisingly reasonable responses here. As much as I still think most of you are way too quick to call Rapid a "sexual predator" and the entire case still looks feeble as hell, I do think it is a very fair point that we should get a discussion going with people in question - is there a plan to achieve that? Will there be any attempt to contact Rapid and Zzzero or is it just this thread?
They probably contacted ZZZero, as it sounds like, with no avail, so they started this thread instead I think.
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On December 14 2023 22:08 ShadPro wrote:
Some surprisingly reasonable responses here. As much as I still think most of you are way too quick to call Rapid a "sexual predator" and the entire case still looks feeble as hell, I do think it is a very fair point that we should get a discussion going with people in question - is there a plan to achieve that? Will there be any attempt to contact Rapid and Zzzero or is it just this thread?
I"m sure 3 years is plenty of time to come to that conclusion without response. Unless you have a standard that is reasonable.
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Considering ZZZero’s recent response I suppose this thread is not really that relevant anymore. Regardless, I do want to address the absurdity in some comments & of course the warning I received by Seeker.
Ironically, a discussion that mentions accountability many times is ridiculed by its very absence. Everyone loves accountability when pointing at others, but accountability is not a one way street. Accountability is not a one way street.
The tendency to discredit views that don’t match your own under a guise of consensus is not only insincere but pretty much what is referred to as cancel culture. It’s characterized by the lack of acknowledgment of facts or integrity and fueled by the dislike of someone’s actions.
My initial post was not in defense of Rapid or ZZZero, but rather a critique of our community's collective witch hunt. An attempt to question and uphold the integrity of the community. But as always, it turns out criticism is easier to give than to receive, even for a mature audience. On top of that I ended up receiving a warning for my post.
You’d think that a community predominantly comprised of adults would be more receptive to open discussion.
As for my warning:
If you did not conduct any research on your own then you're basically posting out of your ass. Why was your post even necessary? This is a serious topic and we take every post seriously. If you have nothing of value to add, then just don't post.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation,
Seeker
(Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.)
@Seeker, you’re questioning the necessity of my post & referring to an assumed lack of research. My post was a serious contribution. How does it qualify for a warning? If not for my history and contributions, I likely would have been banned. Is extensive independent research now a prerequisite for participation in this forum in 2023?
Also, in the spirit of accountability, I am now asking you: did my post go unread or misunderstood? Did you perhaps miscomprehend my post or did it just not warrant a serious consideration in your books? I can’t help but feel your approach here is an equivalent of (mild) censorship. I can’t help but take this approach as ‘anyone not showing disapproval is a bad actor’.
Call outs to cancel BSL or ZZZero are truly ungrounded, especially given that he has been given ample time to speak up or release any sort of statement. That said, I’m slightly dumbfounded by your decision making here. So I question the justification of the warning issued and am asking you if you are willing to retract the warning, or add an admin note to my profile with a rectification. Or is accountability in full dismissal here?
@Tedster ??? your response suggests a misinterpretation of my post
@FlaShFTW thanks for an honest response - I fully agree with you. I don't think he should be fulfilling any public role anymore at this point, with or without apology. Also, if anything, he probably should be apologizing to the people he offended. I personally don’t care too much about a public statement or apology from Rapid.
@tec27 I’m not sure what you're on about.. Your, Baal’s & the undersigned OP’s stance appear to want to dictate the terms in which ZZZero needs to engage with the community. What is this a 'requirement' for? For the community's forgiveness? Have there even been made any reasonable efforts to reach out to him? In any case, no reasonable time was ever given to him to respond.
If anything, your other posts in this thread are aggressive in tone. I can understand you got caught up in the moment. But your approach & demands are aggressive in nature & counterproductive to fostering a welcoming community. This thread only helps in creating a bigger vehicle for people to jump onto. Not like you could not have foreseen this - this was the actual goal of the thread in the first place. A very questionable practice if you ask me. How can you ask the community to be a better & welcoming place when this is your modus operandi? Like I said, accountability goes both ways.
Finally, for the record, please let me also remind you that from all people in this thread, you are the only one referring to Rapid as a sexual predator. You might have a different idea of the definition of a sexual predator. Evidently this thread does need some questioning. Being in a 1 vs 100 / hive mind environment usually is hopeless. I know there are plenty of people that feel similar but feel it’s not worth putting their neck on the line for some drama.
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On December 15 2023 08:20 Smorrie wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Considering ZZZero’s recent response I suppose this thread is not really that relevant anymore. Regardless, I do want to address the absurdity in some comments & of course the warning I received by Seeker. Ironically, a discussion that mentions accountability many times is ridiculed by its very absence. Everyone loves accountability when pointing at others, but accountability is not a one way street. Accountability is not a one way street. The tendency to discredit views that don’t match your own under a guise of consensus is not only insincere but pretty much what is referred to as cancel culture. It’s characterized by the lack of acknowledgment of facts or integrity and fueled by the dislike of someone’s actions. My initial post was not in defense of Rapid or ZZZero, but rather a critique of our community's collective witch hunt. An attempt to question and uphold the integrity of the community. But as always, it turns out criticism is easier to give than to receive, even for a mature audience. On top of that I ended up receiving a warning for my post. You’d think that a community predominantly comprised of adults would be more receptive to open discussion. As for my warning: If you did not conduct any research on your own then you're basically posting out of your ass. Why was your post even necessary? This is a serious topic and we take every post seriously. If you have nothing of value to add, then just don't post.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation,
Seeker
(Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.) @Seeker, you’re questioning the necessity of my post & referring to an assumed lack of research. My post was a serious contribution. How does it qualify for a warning? If not for my history and contributions, I likely would have been banned. Is extensive independent research now a prerequisite for participation in this forum in 2023? Also, in the spirit of accountability, I am now asking you: did my post go unread or misunderstood? Did you perhaps miscomprehend my post or did it just not warrant a serious consideration in your books? I can’t help but feel your approach here is an equivalent of (mild) censorship. I can’t help but take this approach as ‘anyone not showing disapproval is a bad actor’. Call outs to cancel BSL or ZZZero are truly ungrounded, especially given that he has been given ample time to speak up or release any sort of statement. That said, I’m slightly dumbfounded by your decision making here. So I question the justification of the warning issued and am asking you if you are willing to retract the warning, or add an admin note to my profile with a rectification. Or is accountability in full dismissal here? + Show Spoiler +
@Tedster ??? your response suggests a misinterpretation of my post
@FlaShFTW thanks for an honest response - I fully agree with you. I don't think he should be fulfilling any public role anymore at this point, with or without apology. Also, if anything, he probably should be apologizing to the people he offended. I personally don’t care too much about a public statement or apology from Rapid.
@tec27 I’m not sure what you're on about.. Your, Baal’s & the undersigned OP’s stance appear to want to dictate the terms in which ZZZero needs to engage with the community. What is this a 'requirement' for? For the community's forgiveness? Have there even been made any reasonable efforts to reach out to him? In any case, no reasonable time was ever given to him to respond.
If anything, your other posts in this thread are aggressive in tone. I can understand you got caught up in the moment. But your approach & demands are aggressive in nature & counterproductive to fostering a welcoming community. This thread only helps in creating a bigger vehicle for people to jump onto. Not like you could not have foreseen this - this was the actual goal of the thread in the first place. A very questionable practice if you ask me. How can you ask the community to be a better & welcoming place when this is your modus operandi? Like I said, accountability goes both ways.
Finally, for the record, please let me also remind you that from all people in this thread, you are the only one referring to Rapid as a sexual predator. You might have a different idea of the definition of a sexual predator. Evidently this thread does need some questioning. Being in a 1 vs 100 / hive mind environment usually is hopeless. I know there are plenty of people that feel similar but feel it’s not worth putting their neck on the line for some drama.
I hate to veer again off topic, but I think it is important in this case.
Peeano contacted me on Discord about my posts spamming this very thread, quote: "I'm sorry to say, but what you're doing is just adding extra noise, that is not helpful imho. You don't need a dozen of posts to state your opinion or show which side you support. Right?"
I thought about it and concluded that he has a good point and I should check myself before posting or responding to everybody in this particular thread. I even told him if he was a mod (which he stated he wasn't) it would be good to have a warning on my post showing where the boundaries are as the mods see them.
Personally I don't think the reason for the warning on your post is because you may be on the wrong side of the mod's opinion.
I have been warned twice in 2016 on different topic by Seeker and tocufake. That was the last time probably I've looked at tl.net's code of conduct:
https://tl.net/forum/tl-community/17883-tlnet-ten-commandments
I also want to add I would not go as far as using the term "sexual predator" as defined in the link below or "which hunt" (a metaphor for investigation with real purpose of harming opponents).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_predator#:~:text=A sexual predator is a,his or her sex partners.
I too was contacted by another person telling me they would not be posting further because their views are being represented well enough in the relevant threads.
Finally I am glad things have moved in the right direction in a speedy manner as far as I'm concerned.
Cheers
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On December 14 2023 03:41 Haighstrom wrote:
Rus_Brain, how dare you come on the attack about this post being made. That makes me so, so angry. You guys need to get immediately onto taking this seriously, explain in full what has happened at the earliest possible opportunity, and apologise for almost every step you have taken.
This is the risk that's taken when the community accepts sponsorship money from shady sources. It's the same that's happening in chess and soccer with gambling ads and shady crypto scam ads.
When you take money from someone, you're creating a power relationship, and it might happen that the person giving you money might think that they can do and say what they want because they gave you the money. So when you get a sponsor, you better make sure they have a working moral compass.
It's not a surprise that rus_brain doesn't understand the problem in the power abuse by Rapid over a minor and other women, now that we see that rus_brain himself abuses his power relationship with BSL to get Rapid to cast without even warning the organizer. Clearly he was aware of Rapid's history and didn't give a shit.
I love seeing broodwar grow but we have to stop ignoring the problems this community faces in the name of growth. It's more important to have a healthy community than it is to have a number of viewers or a large prize fund. We'll be here for another 10 years even with no money if the game stays the same but if this starts looking like a safe haven for incels I can't say the same will still be true.
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On December 15 2023 08:20 Smorrie wrote:Considering ZZZero’s recent response I suppose this thread is not really that relevant anymore. Regardless, I do want to address the absurdity in some comments & of course the warning I received by Seeker. Ironically, a discussion that mentions accountability many times is ridiculed by its very absence. Everyone loves accountability when pointing at others, but accountability is not a one way street. Accountability is not a one way street. The tendency to discredit views that don’t match your own under a guise of consensus is not only insincere but pretty much what is referred to as cancel culture. It’s characterized by the lack of acknowledgment of facts or integrity and fueled by the dislike of someone’s actions. My initial post was not in defense of Rapid or ZZZero, but rather a critique of our community's collective witch hunt. An attempt to question and uphold the integrity of the community. But as always, it turns out criticism is easier to give than to receive, even for a mature audience. On top of that I ended up receiving a warning for my post. You’d think that a community predominantly comprised of adults would be more receptive to open discussion. As for my warning: Show nested quote +If you did not conduct any research on your own then you're basically posting out of your ass. Why was your post even necessary? This is a serious topic and we take every post seriously. If you have nothing of value to add, then just don't post.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation,
Seeker
(Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.) @Seeker, you’re questioning the necessity of my post & referring to an assumed lack of research. My post was a serious contribution. How does it qualify for a warning? If not for my history and contributions, I likely would have been banned. Is extensive independent research now a prerequisite for participation in this forum in 2023? Also, in the spirit of accountability, I am now asking you: did my post go unread or misunderstood? Did you perhaps miscomprehend my post or did it just not warrant a serious consideration in your books? I can’t help but feel your approach here is an equivalent of (mild) censorship. I can’t help but take this approach as ‘anyone not showing disapproval is a bad actor’. Call outs to cancel BSL or ZZZero are truly ungrounded, especially given that he has been given ample time to speak up or release any sort of statement. That said, I’m slightly dumbfounded by your decision making here. So I question the justification of the warning issued and am asking you if you are willing to retract the warning, or add an admin note to my profile with a rectification. Or is accountability in full dismissal here? @Tedster ??? your response suggests a misinterpretation of my post @FlaShFTW thanks for an honest response - I fully agree with you. I don't think he should be fulfilling any public role anymore at this point, with or without apology. Also, if anything, he probably should be apologizing to the people he offended. I personally don’t care too much about a public statement or apology from Rapid. @tec27 I’m not sure what you're on about.. Your, Baal’s & the undersigned OP’s stance appear to want to dictate the terms in which ZZZero needs to engage with the community. What is this a 'requirement' for? For the community's forgiveness? Have there even been made any reasonable efforts to reach out to him? In any case, no reasonable time was ever given to him to respond. If anything, your other posts in this thread are aggressive in tone. I can understand you got caught up in the moment. But your approach & demands are aggressive in nature & counterproductive to fostering a welcoming community. This thread only helps in creating a bigger vehicle for people to jump onto. Not like you could not have foreseen this - this was the actual goal of the thread in the first place. A very questionable practice if you ask me. How can you ask the community to be a better & welcoming place when this is your modus operandi? Like I said, accountability goes both ways. Finally, for the record, please let me also remind you that from all people in this thread, you are the only one referring to Rapid as a sexual predator. You might have a different idea of the definition of a sexual predator. Evidently this thread does need some questioning. Being in a 1 vs 100 / hive mind environment usually is hopeless. I know there are plenty of people that feel similar but feel it’s not worth putting their neck on the line for some drama.
You are right. This OP was relevant during the period between the issue and ZZZero s statement.
@mods i am not sure what the process is but could we get this thread locked as the original goal has been reached, we have information now and an assurance that this was indeed a mistake that will not happen again. People can continue to fight in the other threads if they want~
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Croatia9487 Posts
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