EPT
[TSL9] - Week 3 - Page 25
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darklycid
3354 Posts
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tigera6
3182 Posts
On September 05 2022 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: It is obvious Maru TvZ just not good as it should be against Serral before. Definitely different class game he has shown before. He made uncharacteristic micro, also showing weird strategy by not having tone of mines or blue-flames hellbats against massive lings-run by. Most probably he did not has good practice partner in Z as in older days. And it was getting worst day by day having Rogue going for military, Solar and DRG still in stagnant mode, and Soo not the same as pre-military service. Only Dark, the top-tier left but he was in different teamgroup and may not helping him much for preparation. I dont think he played sub-par here, its just a matter of the match-up and current Meta. Mass LingBaneHydra will eventually crack the Terran defense despite trading worse against Bio-Tanks-Mine. Maru didnt have tons of Mine or Hellbat simply because Serral forced him to trade them out with his push and Terran cant remake units as quickly as Zerg. | ||
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LostUsername100
85 Posts
Maybe Serral is just really really fucking good? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:14 LostUsername100 wrote: Maru has a positive record vs every other Zerg recently, Dark isn't as smart as Serral either... Maybe Serral is just really really fucking good? and Maru isn't? | ||
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LostUsername100
85 Posts
It's okay if your favourite player loses. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:14 LostUsername100 wrote: Maru has a positive record vs every other Zerg recently, Dark isn't as smart as Serral either... Maybe Serral is just really really fucking good? Serral only matter after 2018?. Before that, he was non exist and benefit from region-locked quota placed to foster new talents in non-Korean region. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:17 LostUsername100 wrote: It's okay if your favourite player loses. I know, your point? | ||
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tigera6
3182 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:14 LostUsername100 wrote: Maru has a positive record vs every other Zerg recently, Dark isn't as smart as Serral either... Maybe Serral is just really really fucking good? Suggesting Serral isnt insanely good is dumb. But its also dumb to not realize that Maru played a clean TvZ as much as he possibly could, and it still didnt matter in the end. Like what else would he supposed to do? 2 racks proxy every game? | ||
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LostUsername100
85 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:18 swarminfestor wrote: Serral only matter after 2018?. Before that, he was non exist and benefit from region-locked quota placed to foster new talents in non-Korean region. Yes when he started playing full time. It's okay guys, take a deep breath. | ||
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LostUsername100
85 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:23 tigera6 wrote: Suggesting Serral isnt insanely good is dumb. But its also dumb to not realize that Maru played a clean TvZ as much as he possibly could, and it still didnt matter in the end. Like what else would he supposed to do? 2 racks proxy every game? Maybe he should make the game wild more (2 rax), try other builds, it's just a single bo5, Maru recently is doing very well vs every other Zerg not named Serral. And that's okay. | ||
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:12 tigera6 wrote: I dont think he played sub-par here, its just a matter of the match-up and current Meta. Mass LingBaneHydra will eventually crack the Terran defense despite trading worse against Bio-Tanks-Mine. Maru didnt have tons of Mine or Hellbat simply because Serral forced him to trade them out with his push and Terran cant remake units as quickly as Zerg. Some part of it. I kind of accepted it since he has shown several weakness gameplays against Lambo yesterday. With couple of TvZ he has endured before arriving to final and Serral got map advantage, I just didn't he can win actually but still hopefully he can improve in the next game or be the same guy as he should in the past. | ||
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tigera6
3182 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:25 LostUsername100 wrote: Maybe he should make the game wild more (2 rax), try other builds, it's just a single bo5, Maru recently is doing very well vs every other Zerg not named Serral. And that's okay. The only build that he didnt try was Mech, and that is map-dependent. Any other macro build, unless its a hidden or gamble all-in, will lead to a similar situation in the last 2 games of this series. You have Bio/Tank/Mines vs mass lingbaneHydra and the result will head down the same road. And Dark actually did beat Maru twice this year, in GSL S1 and in DH Valencia, doing something similar with mass lingbane. Reynor just fooling around too much at the moment but when he get the focus back up for IEM, he would play like a top Zerg again. Other than those 2, its irrelevant to say Maru beating other Zergs. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On September 05 2022 03:58 swarminfestor wrote: It is obvious Maru TvZ just not good as it should be against Serral before. Definitely different class game he has shown before. He made uncharacteristic micro, also showing weird strategy by not having tone of mines or blue-flames hellbats against massive lings-run by. Most probably he did not has good practice partner in Z as in older days. And it was getting worst day by day having Rogue going for military, Solar and DRG still in stagnant mode, and Soo not the same as pre-military service. Only Dark, the top-tier left but he was in different teamgroup and may not helping him much for preparation. Maybe, but thing is Maru still played much better than any terran in the world atm and it wasn't particularly close, so it does beg the question of where we go from here. Cure can't play in any foreign event anymore and dosen't seem to really practice anyway, ByuN is like 30 and is too one dimensional, Bunny and Dream have never step up in big match in a decade long career, Gumi is just back from military and we keep telling ourself that HM and Clem can do it but they essentially never do. Protoss is even more intense, maybe herO can beat Serral if he plays well and Serral play worst than usual, and the list pretty much end there. Serral zvp and zvt kind of are in a "Maru tvt" situation, where everyone that could challenge him retired, so he just win every time without really having to innovate or to get better. If you tell me that Serral dosen't have to play another zvz for the rest of the year I'd probably take 9 to 1 odd that he would win every single tournament he entered. Sure that's because Serral is a beast so he probably deserve it, but it's kind of borring to watch, especially since there's absolutely no indication that it will change in the future (to the contrary). Anyway, I'll still enjoy Starcraft for as long as it last, and the production value was great and very fun, so thanks to the TSL crew!!! | ||
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angry_maia
301 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:33 Nakajin wrote: Maybe, but thing is Maru still played much better than any terran in the world atm and it wasn't particularly close, so it does beg the question of where we go from here. Cure can't play in any foreign event anymore and dosen't seem to really practice anyway, ByuN is like 30 and is too one dimensional, Bunny and Dream have never step up in big match in a decade long career, Gumi is just back from military and we keep telling ourself that HM and Clem can do it but they essentially never do. Protoss is even more intense, maybe herO can beat Serral if he plays well and Serral play worst than usual, and the list pretty much end there. Serral zvp and zvt kind of are in a "Maru tvt" situation, where everyone that could challenge him retired, so he just win every time without really having to innovate or to get better. If you tell me that Serral dosen't have to play another zvz for the rest of the year I'd probably take 9 to 1 odd that he would win every single tournament he entered. Sure that's because Serral is a beast so he probably deserve it, but it's kind of borring to watch, especially since there's absolutely no indication that it will change in the future (to the contrary). Anyway, I'll still enjoy Starcraft for as long as it last, and the production value was great and very fun, so thanks to the TSL crew!!! Well, the fact that Serral zvp and zvt are "Maru tvt" like suggests that there isn't necessarily something wrong with the match-ups. It could totally just be that Serral is that much better than everyone else, just the same way that Maru is clearly better than everyone else when it comes to tvt. | ||
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darklycid
3354 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:56 angry_maia wrote: Well, the fact that Serral zvp and zvt are "Maru tvt" like suggests that there isn't necessarily something wrong with the match-ups. It could totally just be that Serral is that much better than everyone else, just the same way that Maru is clearly better than everyone else when it comes to tvt. Problem in a matchup like tvt there cant be imbalance in that way like with nojn mirror mus so it has to be skill in others it may not. | ||
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dysenterymd
1155 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:33 Nakajin wrote: Maybe, but thing is Maru still played much better than any terran in the world atm and it wasn't particularly close, so it does beg the question of where we go from here. Cure can't play in any foreign event anymore and dosen't seem to really practice anyway, ByuN is like 30 and is too one dimensional, Bunny and Dream have never step up in big match in a decade long career, Gumi is just back from military and we keep telling ourself that HM and Clem can do it but they essentially never do. Protoss is even more intense, maybe herO can beat Serral if he plays well and Serral play worst than usual, and the list pretty much end there. Serral zvp and zvt kind of are in a "Maru tvt" situation, where everyone that could challenge him retired, so he just win every time without really having to innovate or to get better. If you tell me that Serral dosen't have to play another zvz for the rest of the year I'd probably take 9 to 1 odd that he would win every single tournament he entered. Sure that's because Serral is a beast so he probably deserve it, but it's kind of borring to watch, especially since there's absolutely no indication that it will change in the future (to the contrary). Anyway, I'll still enjoy Starcraft for as long as it last, and the production value was great and very fun, so thanks to the TSL crew!!! Hmm while I think Serral is the overwhelming favorite against any non-Zerg player, I don't think he's anywhere near Maru TvT levels. He looked super shaky in HSC group stages (granted, those weren't do or die matches) and almost lost to Neeb, plus he's had a lot of losses to Clem (those were online, to be fair.) But yeah, the ranks of "top players" are way too thin rn. If someone other than Reynor/Serral/Dark/Maru/herO wins a big tournament, I'd consider that a shocking result (rip Zest/Trap/Rogue/TY.) Even when someone like Showtime makes a magical run, it feels it always ends with "oh nice job, now get slaughtered by Serral." Sadly there isn't really a solution, other than maybe giving more prep time to allow for more upsets. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
Maru rekt every other Zergs including Reynor and no one said a word. But once Serral stomps Maru, all a sudden Zerg is too strong? I get it if this was solar stomping Maru , then we need to take a look at the balance. But Serral has always been tbe superior player for years now | ||
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Athenau
568 Posts
On September 05 2022 05:13 TossHeroes wrote: Maru fanboys are out in full force with the usual balance whines Maru rekt every other Zergs including Reynor and no one said a word. But once Serral stomps Maru, all a sudden Zerg is too strong? I get it if this was solar stomping Maru , then we need to take a look at the balance. But Serral has always been tbe superior player for years now Yeah, Maru totally "rekt" Reynor with that close 3-2 series win. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15828 Posts
On September 05 2022 04:56 angry_maia wrote: Well, the fact that Serral zvp and zvt are "Maru tvt" like suggests that there isn't necessarily something wrong with the match-ups. It could totally just be that Serral is that much better than everyone else, just the same way that Maru is clearly better than everyone else when it comes to tvt. Well of course we can never really know for sure if Serral wins 100% because of his skill or because balance is also slightly favouring him but one indicator for me is that the gap between Serral and the 2nd best Zerg is smaller than the gap between Maru and the 2nd terran meaning Maru is actually the bigger outlier for his race but still can't win. Of course it could just be that 4 out of the 5 best players in the world just happened to pick Zerg (and I really don't mean this sarcastically) | ||
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