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On June 30 2008 16:51 FrozenArbiter wrote:
The medivac does look better than I thought it would but I still want to know how not having a medic affects terran early game..
- Are marines able to attack (effectively) pre-medivac?
- Are the medivacs annoying when you have a big army (ie do they fly back and forth)?
- How does marine/marauder do vs things like mass lings or vs static defense?
In the game between Naruto and Stephen Chang (the ZvT), Naruto managed to sneak a bunch of marines into the zerg main but they died fairly easily to less than a handful of drones and some lings.
If these same marines had been accompanied by a medic............. Basically, don't you feel you lose a lot of the whole "hero marines" thing?
Overall I think the game looks fantastic, medivac or no medivac.
Since I played quiet a few games and you especially have questions about my game I'm going to answer and talk about some things. Ok first of all the games:
Game 1: Mirko ( noob)hot( ) vs Alexander ( french guy, forgot his nick )
Game 2: Mirko ( noob)hot( ) vs Kevin Yu (Karune)
Game3: Silvano (myself) vs Steven Chang (hope its written correctly) (another Blizzard guy)
Ok about your questions FrozenArbiter:
- Yes, Marines definately can attack before you have a medivac. You can add stim pack and +10 hp on them, so they are quiet good. (They are awesome against Protoss, you can micro against a 2 gate rush with just 1 barracks and it works, at least for me).
- No, they range for healing is quiet good. They don't fly around like crazy. Actually I was really "scared" about how it does work and how it will play out, but when I played, the medivac was awesome. Don't worry
- I didn't have any game with marine/marauder vs mass ling, but I can tell marine/marauder just destroys zealots/stalkers. Also Banshees are AWESOME against zerglings. As far as I can tell, for Terran vs Zerg you can - at least at the moment - use a little bit changed broodwar builds while you cannot use them in Terran vs Protoss. You have to play really bionic heavy in terran vs protoss.
If you have further questions, just ask or PM.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Thanks a lot, I'm not happy to be wrong (because I wanted the medic back), but I'm happy that the medivac works 
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Now all we need is the Collossus to fire scarabs =p
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On June 30 2008 23:00 VIB wrote:
For anyone who has been on WWI. Can you use the nullifier force shield ability on top of enemy units to force them to spread out? So could you use it to harass a peon line?
Those nullifiers are something I'm really looking forward, they look fun as hell.
I'm not sure if this actually works, but you can use the nullifier to rush up a ramp with your force and actually block of this ramp, so he cannot enter his base while you are wracking havoc.
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On July 01 2008 00:18 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2008 23:00 VIB wrote:
For anyone who has been on WWI. Can you use the nullifier force shield ability on top of enemy units to force them to spread out? So could you use it to harass a peon line?
Those nullifiers are something I'm really looking forward, they look fun as hell. I'm not sure if this actually works, but you can use the nullifier to rush up a ramp with your force and actually block of this ramp, so he cannot enter his base while you are wracking havoc.
From what ive read, units will not be pushed out of force field but they can be told to walk out. Once they have left however they cannot walk past it/in it.
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i love the starcraft feeling
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Thanks a lot for the help Naruto.
How did you feel about hit and running? It's a common concern, we've seen videos of people trying to kill zealots with the new vultures like they would in BW, but failed. I can't tell if the player were bad or if it's harder to micro in sc2. Things like shoot, run, shoot, run with jackals instead of vulters or stalkers instead of goons against melee. Does it feels the same? Does it has the same power?
Also how did mbs/automine impact your play? Did it make too much difference that you could sit down with your arms crossed having nothing to do half the game or was it a minor unnoticed thing?
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I think its so awesome that TL gets this kind of respect and response from Blizzard that Mani can officially cast the Starcraft 2 games with tasteless. That's just unbelievably awesome. great job mani. Probably expect a lot more traffic here after wwi from all that exposure...
edit: holy crap was that music in the background in game?
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The music they were playing was the Warcraft III soundtrack. The only SC2 music we've heard was a brief part of the terran music in the single player demo almost a year ago.
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The typing sounds like a typewriter.
After a little while the audio quality problems are forgotten. Thanks a lot 
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Netherlands19124 Posts
On June 30 2008 16:51 FrozenArbiter wrote:
The medivac does look better than I thought it would but I still want to know how not having a medic affects terran early game..
- Are marines able to attack (effectively) pre-medivac?
- Are the medivacs annoying when you have a big army (ie do they fly back and forth)?
- How does marine/marauder do vs things like mass lings or vs static defense?
In the game between Naruto and Stephen Chang (the ZvT), Naruto managed to sneak a bunch of marines into the zerg main but they died fairly easily to less than a handful of drones and some lings.
If these same marines had been accompanied by a medic............. Basically, don't you feel you lose a lot of the whole "hero marines" thing?
Overall I think the game looks fantastic, medivac or no medivac.
I played about 15hours + of SC2 in 2 days haha, over 70 games but mostly zerg (75%ish) and I'll do abig writeup about it later this week when I catch some sleep and have the time and can be arsed to do it :p.
Marines with stim and shield are STRONG, especially cause they start out with the range upgrade (there is none). That with the new pathing makes them rly nasty. 4 rines can easily handle 2 zeals with micro, add marauders to that mix and they get really really really nasty plus you can make about a million man marine march in notime with marauder support if you go 1 rax with reactor and 1 rax with tech lab. From there add tanks or ghosts (which are SO GOOD but so expensive, 200 gas for example) and take it from there.
Medivacs got a huge ass heal range and they fly really fast to and fro, that + they fly and have no cluttering going on make them a whooolleeee lot more effective then medics atm and medivacs healing 150 hp 1 armor marauders is brutal vs alot of things.
Anyways ill post about this later but it'll be mostly about zerg I guess.
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On July 01 2008 00:10 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2008 16:51 FrozenArbiter wrote:
The medivac does look better than I thought it would but I still want to know how not having a medic affects terran early game..
- Are marines able to attack (effectively) pre-medivac?
- Are the medivacs annoying when you have a big army (ie do they fly back and forth)?
- How does marine/marauder do vs things like mass lings or vs static defense?
In the game between Naruto and Stephen Chang (the ZvT), Naruto managed to sneak a bunch of marines into the zerg main but they died fairly easily to less than a handful of drones and some lings.
If these same marines had been accompanied by a medic............. Basically, don't you feel you lose a lot of the whole "hero marines" thing?
Overall I think the game looks fantastic, medivac or no medivac. Since I played quiet a few games and you especially have questions about my game I'm going to answer and talk about some things. Ok first of all the games: Game 1: Mirko ( noob)hot( ) vs Alexander ( french guy, forgot his nick ) Game 2: Mirko ( noob)hot( ) vs Kevin Yu (Karune) Game3: Silvano (myself) vs Steven Chang (hope its written correctly) (another Blizzard guy) Ok about your questions FrozenArbiter: - Yes, Marines definately can attack before you have a medivac. You can add stim pack and +10 hp on them, so they are quiet good. (They are awesome against Protoss, you can micro against a 2 gate rush with just 1 barracks and it works, at least for me). - No, they range for healing is quiet good. They don't fly around like crazy. Actually I was really "scared" about how it does work and how it will play out, but when I played, the medivac was awesome. Don't worry - I didn't have any game with marine/marauder vs mass ling, but I can tell marine/marauder just destroys zealots/stalkers. Also Banshees are AWESOME against zerglings. As far as I can tell, for Terran vs Zerg you can - at least at the moment - use a little bit changed broodwar builds while you cannot use them in Terran vs Protoss. You have to play really bionic heavy in terran vs protoss. If you have further questions, just ask or PM.
Could you please tell us more about range indicator?
Is it permanently turned on or is holding some key needed?
What happens when multiple circles can be seen?
Is it restricted to only few ranged units or do all have it?
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Netherlands19124 Posts
On July 01 2008 00:18 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2008 23:00 VIB wrote:
For anyone who has been on WWI. Can you use the nullifier force shield ability on top of enemy units to force them to spread out? So could you use it to harass a peon line?
Those nullifiers are something I'm really looking forward, they look fun as hell. I'm not sure if this actually works, but you can use the nullifier to rush up a ramp with your force and actually block of this ramp, so he cannot enter his base while you are wracking havoc.
Haha yeah Kal tried to do this while he dropped my main with 1 HT 1 archon and 1 nullifier, sucks for him that I had my nydus warren in my main so that fun ended quickly, especially with my huge queen with 2 corruptor aids taking down that phase prism before he could gay up my main with warpins.
Naruto ruleessss btw ^^;;
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On July 01 2008 03:11 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2008 00:18 G.s)NarutO wrote:On June 30 2008 23:00 VIB wrote:
For anyone who has been on WWI. Can you use the nullifier force shield ability on top of enemy units to force them to spread out? So could you use it to harass a peon line?
Those nullifiers are something I'm really looking forward, they look fun as hell. I'm not sure if this actually works, but you can use the nullifier to rush up a ramp with your force and actually block of this ramp, so he cannot enter his base while you are wracking havoc. Haha yeah Kal tried to do this while he dropped my main with 1 HT 1 archon and 1 nullifier, sucks for him that I had my nydus warren in my main so that fun ended quickly, especially with my huge queen with 2 corruptor aids taking down that phase prism before he could gay up my main with warpins. Naruto ruleessss btw ^^;;
oooo about Corruptors
What is needed to do infestation on other units? Is some number of hits needed or after targeted unit is just weak enough 1 attack infestates it???
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On July 01 2008 01:34 VIB wrote:
Thanks a lot for the help Naruto.
How did you feel about hit and running? It's a common concern, we've seen videos of people trying to kill zealots with the new vultures like they would in BW, but failed. I can't tell if the player were bad or if it's harder to micro in sc2. Things like shoot, run, shoot, run with jackals instead of vulters or stalkers instead of goons against melee. Does it feels the same? Does it has the same power?
Also how did mbs/automine impact your play? Did it make too much difference that you could sit down with your arms crossed having nothing to do half the game or was it a minor unnoticed thing?
First of all, don't get afraid. Starcraft 2 really feels like Starcraft. I don't think we played it on fastest as it just didn't seem like that. Hit and run works fine. You can easily outmicro zealots with marines. I think its a little bit hard to micro marines against zerglings, especially with speed upgrade, but thats just how it was in Starcraft, right? Hit and run works really well and you can even use blink to buy some time to probably rebuild units while the opponent is chasing your stalkers.
Jackals have that flamethrower attack, I think thats why it doesn't work. Its not like a ranged attack but more like a melee attack with AoE.
MBS and automine.. well. You can tell from my on stage game that I didn't use MBS at all. I used to hotkey my barracks 3,4,5,6.. and about automining, I did the rally point in front of the minerals, not on them, so I didn't use automining either, haha!
Actually MBS works like, if you have 4 gateways / factories whatever on one hotkey, you have to for example press "Z" for zealot 4 times to make all gateways build one, its not that bad and you really get a great overview with a little graphics about it. And I think even if you use automining and MBS it wouldn't change too much. Actually I think automining is more helpfull than MBS to newbies, because MBS just changes: 3t4t5v6v7v8v9v0v to 3ttvvvvvv . You still have to choose what units you are going to build and the unit combinations in Starcraft 2 seem like to feature lots of different units, so MBS wont be a stupid 3zzzzzzzz or something .
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Naruto did you find any imbalanced(edit) units in the current stage of game?
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Netherlands19124 Posts
On July 01 2008 03:14 MrRammstein wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2008 03:11 Nyovne wrote:On July 01 2008 00:18 G.s)NarutO wrote:On June 30 2008 23:00 VIB wrote:
For anyone who has been on WWI. Can you use the nullifier force shield ability on top of enemy units to force them to spread out? So could you use it to harass a peon line?
Those nullifiers are something I'm really looking forward, they look fun as hell. I'm not sure if this actually works, but you can use the nullifier to rush up a ramp with your force and actually block of this ramp, so he cannot enter his base while you are wracking havoc. Haha yeah Kal tried to do this while he dropped my main with 1 HT 1 archon and 1 nullifier, sucks for him that I had my nydus warren in my main so that fun ended quickly, especially with my huge queen with 2 corruptor aids taking down that phase prism before he could gay up my main with warpins. Naruto ruleessss btw ^^;; oooo about Corruptors What is needed to do infestation on other units? Is some number of hits needed or after targeted unit is just weak enough 1 attack infestates it???
They need to have the killing blow. Corruptors fuckin suck huge dick. The only redeeming virtue is that they require just a lair to build and aren't that expensive at all. Infestation lasts like 10 sec max as well and have some hive level upgrade to make it last 5 sec (it felt like that) longer (boojah). Rly with they would make corruptors a proper support unit that debuffs a target or a weaker and cheaper 1 psi air skirmisher, atm they felt terrible it play for so many reasons.
I missed scourges as hell  .
Funniest shit ever is to 1 warp-ray rush a zerg. Do the math why.
Oh yeah MBS didnt feel like a problem at all funnily enough, just the automining is sick sick sick as hell while I was thinking it would be the other way around lol. Especially for T and P where later on when you prolly have a gas shortage and little mineral exess you can just queue them up.
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So now TvP you can't go mech?
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On July 01 2008 03:31 G.s)NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2008 01:34 VIB wrote:
Thanks a lot for the help Naruto.
How did you feel about hit and running? It's a common concern, we've seen videos of people trying to kill zealots with the new vultures like they would in BW, but failed. I can't tell if the player were bad or if it's harder to micro in sc2. Things like shoot, run, shoot, run with jackals instead of vulters or stalkers instead of goons against melee. Does it feels the same? Does it has the same power?
Also how did mbs/automine impact your play? Did it make too much difference that you could sit down with your arms crossed having nothing to do half the game or was it a minor unnoticed thing? First of all, don't get afraid. Starcraft 2 really feels like Starcraft. I don't think we played it on fastest as it just didn't seem like that. Hit and run works fine. You can easily outmicro zealots with marines. I think its a little bit hard to micro marines against zerglings, especially with speed upgrade, but thats just how it was in Starcraft, right? Hit and run works really well and you can even use blink to buy some time to probably rebuild units while the opponent is chasing your stalkers. Jackals have that flamethrower attack, I think thats why it doesn't work. Its not like a ranged attack but more like a melee attack with AoE. MBS and automine.. well. You can tell from my on stage game that I didn't use MBS at all. I used to hotkey my barracks 3,4,5,6.. and about automining, I did the rally point in front of the minerals, not on them, so I didn't use automining either, haha! Actually MBS works like, if you have 4 gateways / factories whatever on one hotkey, you have to for example press "Z" for zealot 4 times to make all gateways build one, its not that bad and you really get a great overview with a little graphics about it. And I think even if you use automining and MBS it wouldn't change too much. Actually I think automining is more helpfull than MBS to newbies, because MBS just changes: 3t4t5v6v7v8v9v0v to 3ttvvvvvv . You still have to choose what units you are going to build and the unit combinations in Starcraft 2 seem like to feature lots of different units, so MBS wont be a stupid 3zzzzzzzz or something .
Thanks for all the great info. That's a significant step better than what I thought MBS was going to be (as in, select gateways hotkey, press Z once). Interesting that Marines will 'easily' outmicro Zealots. That is until Charge is researched x.x
After watching those three games, a lot of my faith in SC2 has been restored
can you talk a little more about what you think about Marauders? I'm a little in the dark about what this unit exactly is supposed to accomplish. Find any use for it TvZ?
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Netherlands19124 Posts
On July 01 2008 03:44 Krzycho wrote:
Naruto did you find any imbalanced in the current game?
Some things felt overpowered till I let go of my "broodwar" mindset which I lost after about the first 3-5 games. When I went in with a clean slate to make things work nothing felt overpowered to me myself somethings are just rly rly strong.
Some units are statistically overpowered, especially collossi. But they are hard to get as long as you pressure the P during the game, and if he 1 base techs to them you can just take 3-4 bases yourself easily and swarm his ass with superior numbers.
If you can fast play 2 base as P and get 3-4 collossi you're pretty much unstoppable at this moment though if the other guy doesn't have like at LEAST 2 more bases and the proper selection and amount of units to deal with them. Collossi really felt like they were too fast. Some people from Blizz TV were interviewing me about them and how I felt about them, I kinda answered that they were fine to deal with since they arent easy to available through tech and are rly expensive so they are hard to mass but they felt like Reavers on crack with jetpacks that can shoot over terrain elevations.
All in all the game felt really fine, the 2 things that felt dangerously strong to me were collossi and the time it takes to gurge creep from an OL, spawn a nydus worm and pop a unit out. I timed it to a grand total of 6-7 seconds from floating in my lord in his main and my first banelings popping out into his mineral line. The OL creep generation is fine but the nydus worm spawn should really take 5 seconds (maybe 1 more) instead of the 3 it currently seems to be.
But then again the game is so much more mobile and units can appear so much easier anywhere on the map that you're asking for trouble if you don't leave a squad of units around your main bases and a defensive structure or two. Let alone allowing that first slow scouting lord to just hover closely around your main or expansion till he's ready to fly it in and nydus worm your ass.
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EPT
