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Netherlands19129 Posts
On July 01 2008 05:16 Krzycho wrote:I see how i will "m" + click on enemy units my changelings :D Can u see what they really are with a detector? It will be usefull in the late game when your opponent has got like 100 units 
Yeah like I said before I actually have no idea if detectors work against them, forgot/didn't get a chance to actually find out.
But you should worry I guess, SC2 will be a great and very entertaining game no doubt and without question even more so then WC3/TFT which I even enjoyed myself when they came out. But we all know how they turned out competative wise and I'm not seeing them in 5-6 years still I think.
I don't want SC2 to be a great and entertaining game. I want it to be absolutely spot on, mindblowing, dick-rising, sexoncocainalishious and not a bit less and it's really not at that point yet.
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Netherlands19129 Posts
Wow how the hell did I end up writing that huge reply to that simple question LOL. SC2 just got me so hyped :D.
And FA SC2 felt really good but theres quite alot of things that felt wrong/interrupting gameflow but noones played it enough outside blizz to actually comment on that I guess, just some impressions I got from playing it for 15-16 hours or somth.
All in all I REALLY enjoyed playing it and it got me hyped, addicted and craving for more.
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On July 01 2008 05:09 Unentschieden wrote:
Changelings sound evil, well depending how well the enemy knows his own forces. I´m curious how the Nomad works right now, I heard that Nanorepair is back and AoE in Air now, is that true or is it BS?
I haven't checked Nomads that well myself. I just used them as mobile detectors and to drop spider mines on my opponents sieged tanks and non AA protected units haha. They still have that turret ability though as upgrade but I didn't use it. I played mostly zerg and thats the only race I really played through and through.
So in short, I haven't got a single clue if nanorepair is in or not but I think it doesn't in the build we played since I think I'd have noticed it but I might as well missed it.
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Did u invent any strats?
Did u use a lot of spell casters as a zerg or did u just mass lots of units?
I did post those questions in a wrong thread.
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Netherlands19129 Posts
On July 01 2008 05:44 Krzycho wrote:
Did u invent any strats?
Did u use a lot of spell casters as a zerg or did u just mass lots of units?
I did post those questions in a wrong thread.
Well me and Haji, me playing zerg and him playing toss we're trying to create working buildorders and then working unit combo's strats which got quite some interesting and very effective results. Sadly this is useless for when the game actually comes out since everything changes all the time  . From minerals returned per trip to unit dmg/cost/buildtime/place in techtree or removed alltogether.
But so yeah we invented alot of strats, everyone who plays a new game has to since there is no pre-knowledge to go on and if you start SC2 with a SCBW state of mind you'll get sorely disappointed with timings and unit performace in general and pleasantly surprised in others.
Zerg really has just 1 caster, they have 3 units with energy being the Overseer, the Infestor and the Queen, but the Infestor really is the only caster zerg has and I found swarm to be GREATLY disappointing, especially with the lack of consume it's not spammable anymore so you can't create "swarm highway" anymore. Also the area it covers has been significantly reduced like that of psistorm (which still is damn good imho due to the new improved unit clutter and pathing).
I found Infestors to be really nice to use to sneak into an enemy base with the move while burrowed stuff or drop them there, infest 3-4 buildings and then turn the infested spawns on his workers while attacking his main army or pushing his frontdoor/natural.
But the main problem is that without consume, you gotta be carefull with what you do with them. Infestors are pretty expensive to get to techwise and then to build them even more so. Then comes the waiting for energy and then you got just 1-2 spells to use. I found Infestor energy to be best spent on disease which is REALLY amazing btw. Two diseases hitting a terran ball at both sides of the ball sees it spread through the army in no time as it's contageous and if you hit him at the same time with your army, he'll have no time to kill or seperate the units in time or if he does he's not controlling his army while your hitting it. It's amazing how fast a whole group of units gets reduced to just 5% of their HP if someone misses the disease for even a few seconds.
(it takes about 10 full seconds to reduce a unit to 5% of its max hp, at about 5% per tick, this makes it alot weaker vs low hp units like marines then SCBW plague for example but it makes it a hell of alot stronger vs large units like Thors, carriers, colossi, ultras, BC's.)
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Seems like marines will be pretty important in TvP because Immortal seems to counter every mech unit terran have. That's based on watching these matches of course, all speculation, but marines will be a nice counter to immortals because of their fast attack.
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How did the units perform that infestation creates (Infested Marines?). Also, I thought I saw that they end their timed lifespan with suicide (shoot themselves), is that true or should I polish my glasses?
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How does the Immortal vs. Siege Tank interaction actually work? Are Immortals too good vs. Tanks?
Does Terran use distinct unit mixes in different match-ups like in BW (vZ bio; various types of metal vP & T)?
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On July 01 2008 06:11 Oc wrote:
Seems like marines will be pretty important in TvP because Immortal seems to counter every mech unit terran have. That's based on watching these matches of course, all speculation, but marines will be a nice counter to immortals because of their fast attack.
They seem to be, but I think Vikings don't trigger their shields either, Marauders do, but Jackals don't. So it's a bit of a tradeoff going around and I haven't played TvP enough in the latest build let alone vs someone good to actually comment on what would work or not.
The TvPs I have played showed me that opening with 2 rax, one with reactor (for 2 rines at the same time) and one with tech lab (for marauders) and early agression with them is kinda crucial to force to P to make zealots or even cannons to delay his tech to stalkers.
If you don't do that it *seems* to me at least that P can unopposedly take an expo while casually getting stalkers and just skipping zeals alltogether. At least untill he upgrades charge.
And once stalkers get blink plus theres some immortals in the mix you rape pure tanks so easily its laughable. Haji was playing XeoFreestyler and put on a good blinkshow .
Pure metal seems to weak anyway to go straight for in TvP, it's too slow, it's too expensive and too ineffective unsupported.
This is all just a *feel* I got from it and didnt get around to play proper people to actually see how it turned out.
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On July 01 2008 06:16 Unentschieden wrote:
How did the units perform that infestation creates (Infested Marines?). Also, I thought I saw that they end their timed lifespan with suicide (shoot themselves), is that true or should I polish my glasses?
They perform like marines but move a bit slower and Im pretty much sure shoot a bit slower too. But if you can infest 2-4 buildings (they spawn 8 of them per building) while hitting his army/front as a pincer or distraction they can wreak havoc on a base it's pylons, supply depots or especially workers and they will take care of any reinforcements that pop up during the fight from his facilities.
The only moment I used them in a proper game I infested 3 barracks I think, might have been 4 and I used my infested marines to take his ramp and kill off the units that spawned during a fight we had in the centre of the map and to prevent him from maynarding his natural scvs to his main as I popped a nydus worm there and sent in some banelings at them.
As for their autodie animation I have to disappoint you because I was way too busy to check that in that game haha, so I have to disappoint you on that part. Would be cool though if theyd shoot themselves, but even better if they suicided for a small amount of dmg :p.
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On July 01 2008 06:21 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2008 06:11 Oc wrote:
Seems like marines will be pretty important in TvP because Immortal seems to counter every mech unit terran have. That's based on watching these matches of course, all speculation, but marines will be a nice counter to immortals because of their fast attack. They seem to be, but I think Vikings don't trigger their shields either, Marauders do, but Jackals don't. So it's a bit of a tradeoff going around and I haven't played TvP enough in the latest build let alone vs someone good to actually comment on what would work or not. The TvPs I have played showed me that opening with 2 rax, one with reactor (for 2 rines at the same time) and one with tech lab (for marauders) and early agression with them is kinda crucial to force to P to make zealots or even cannons to delay his tech to stalkers. If you don't do that it *seems* to me at least that P can unopposedly take an expo while casually getting stalkers and just skipping zeals alltogether. At least untill he upgrades charge. And once stalkers get blink plus theres some immortals in the mix you rape pure tanks so easily its laughable. Haji was playing XeoFreestyler and put on a good blinkshow . Pure metal seems to weak anyway to go straight for in TvP, it's too slow, it's too expensive and too ineffective unsupported. This is all just a *feel* I got from it and didnt get around to play proper people to actually see how it turned out.
Man reading this made me want to play SC2 so badly. The more rock-paper-scissors the better I feel. If there's one issue with BW right now is that even though there's definitely a super high skill cap, the number of strategies in some matchups is very limited. Infantry in TvP are almost useless after P gets cybernetics core since infantry don't really hard counter anything the P have, and ZvZ while exciting to watch is lings/muta every matchup.
That's just my opinion, because the RPS meta game of BW in dynamic matches such as PvP are my favorite.
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On July 01 2008 06:18 maybenexttime wrote:
How does the Immortal vs. Siege Tank interaction actually work? Are Immortals too good vs. Tanks?
Does Terran use distinct unit mixes in different match-ups like in BW (vZ bio; various types of metal vP & T)?
Immortals are unbeatable by straight up tanks. The immortals shield (after upgrade!) reduces all damage thats over 20 an attack down to 20 damage I believe ( not really sure, just that it procs off attacks that do more then 20 dmg per shot). So they are insane tanks vs heavy hitters such as tanks, for the rest the pretty much blow though and stalkers are alot better and more versatile with their dmg and blink.
Im pretty sure immortals are vs ground only and cannot as such fire at air units.
Immortals really have their weaknesses and they aren't cheap so they need to be supported by other units, but so do tanks. This turns them both into great units to mix with others. Tanks are a great great support unit which can lie down insane fireperimiters once you get a couple of them due to hardcore splash damage. Immortals on the other hand seem to be a bit situational but they are great for going in first and absorbing some of that heavy damage from siege tanks for example.
All in all they don't seem overpowered at all but I haven't used them myself at all so take this opinion with a grain of salt, this is just from watching stork play around with them against idra and savior for a couple of games and from the SC2 showmatches on stage with HOT and Naruto playing.
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Nyovne I bet you will use your own posts to write this blog :D looking forward to it, really looking forward ^^
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why is burrow so much better now? how is it controlled?
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Oc what is RPS meta game??
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I wonder if Blizzard will kindly upload some SC2 games for us to watch. I bet most people are dying to see them. 
I am at least. xD
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Netherlands19129 Posts
On July 01 2008 06:18 maybenexttime wrote:
How does the Immortal vs. Siege Tank interaction actually work? Are Immortals too good vs. Tanks?
Does Terran use distinct unit mixes in different match-ups like in BW (vZ bio; various types of metal vP & T)?
Again I cant really comment on it as I havent really explored terran in depth during my games as I focussed on getting as much as I could out of zerg gameplay.
But yes it seems terran uses different mixes vs different races as can be expected but I really cant comment on this as its mostly a huge bunch of bullcrap Ill be making up and speculating about. Dunno if someone who went played T extensively but I cannont comment on mix efficiency since I can't have played more then 2 decent games with T 1 TvP and one TvT. I got some impressions from my games which gave me some feelings about certain things and give me reason to speculate but it's totally unreliable even for the latest build as I have no sense of midgame timing or tried to pioneer some proper builds past 1 rax/fax FE and 2 rax reactor/techlab rush into ghost/banshee support.
All I know is that tanks absolutely vaporize terran infantry even worse then in SCBW and that banshees seem to be really nice.
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On July 01 2008 06:51 MrRammstein wrote:
Nyovne I bet you will use your own posts to write this blog :D looking forward to it, really looking forward ^^
Haha I'll make some notes and get my thoughts and opinions straight tomorrow in the train to my appartment and then write it all up .
Glad people get hyped for this, it's worth it. I just hope it'll be more then great and be a worthy e-sport successor for SCBW, but it needs alot of work right now to actually get to that point but it looks really promising and it'll at least make a great game im sure.
But I want it to be sick kickass awsome perfect and not just great :D.
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Netherlands19129 Posts
On July 01 2008 06:51 Ideas wrote:
why is burrow so much better now? how is it controlled?
It's really fast and really easy to get for starters, it's 30 sec research duration, 50 mins, 50 gas. It's practically free.
edit: a small thing of note, you can see the heads of the burrowed units so you can actually see whats burrowed where instead of just the small black holes in SCBW which really makes it alot clearer and alot more managable once they are burrowed. Good change!
Then comes the fact that it's just great for ambushes in general and to save units that are losing a fight especially early game/midgame when there's little to no detection around and workers that are getting harassed. This goes for SC2 as much as it already goes for burrow in SCBW which imho is severely underrated and underused.
The best part about burrow from it's general use as I tried to depict above here is from the way it synergyses with two new units. Namely the Baneling and the Roach.
Burrowed banelings are SICK. It was my trademark move on WWI as it's just sick to see someone move out with a 40-50 psi army midgame and then with ling / hydra pressure you funnel them into a certain spot or lure them towards a "seemingly undefended expansion" and underway they run over 10-20 burrowed banelings which you then unburrow and watch them proceed to turn the whole army into green goo in about a single whole second. It's just sick, people I played more then once hardly even moved out anymore till they had detect or a fake group of units running around that were hallucinated to try and draw the ambushes out.
It's like hold lurker on crack.
The other thing is something I put to the test vs a progamer which is when you use roaches who regenerate extremely fast to pick off one or two units and before a roach dies you burrow them all, let them regen a sec, and then unburrow them all again and pick off one or two more units before burrowing and regenning again.
Especially if you can do this inside his base thanks to a nydus worm or in his natural or pinched position its great since he cant just redraw out of roach range (their range is really limited and they are slow as hell). The roach burrow dance is just incredibly strong till he gets reliable detect over there and then the fun is pretty much over till you get rid of it . Vs P I find it because of that still very important to build a few flyers to try and keep his obs count low at all times or to eliminate them as he moves out or during a fight for this single reason.
VS's T's the same goes for nomads and to sneak a few lings through the fray in a fight to snipe his radar tower or infest 2 buildings and put those instant spawned infested terrans to work with suicide clearing all his static detect before you move in on his base or nydus his back to create a beachhead for your units.
Since detection has become alot harder to get in SC2 or at least slower to get then before for most races burrow as hatchery researched ability creates an amazing playstyle and techniques for early game zerg at the very least.
In a battle with speedlings vs a player if you can get into his base and can burrow some lings here and there that he missed in the chaos which you can later when hes fighting you with his army can morph into banelings into his base and then rape his mineral/workerline with them is just amazing. At the very least it forces him to make some detection / leave some units back in his base to deal with that threat lurking below the ground or shore up some static defense.
Burrow and the options it opened in playstyles is what got me so enthusiastic about zerg and made me play it for by far most games on WWI.
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Did Nomads get their detection back?
Can you infest Protoss buildings? (I'd personally like Infest to be a Terran dedicated spell, or have some other effect on other races' buildings.)
Are Banelings gas-heavy? In the BlizzCon build they were, so I heard.
Are Nydus Worm "drops" effective? Are they hard to pull off (Radar Towers, burrowed Lings, Observers, and other means of scouting might theoretically render them so)?
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EPT
