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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 07:34 maybenexttime wrote:
Did Nomads get their detection back?
Can you infest Protoss buildings? (I'd personally like Infest to be a Terran dedicated spell, or have some other effect on other races' buildings.)
Are Banelings gas-heavy? In the BlizzCon build they were, so I heard.
Are Nydus Worm "drops" effective? Are they hard to pull off (Radar Towers, burrowed Lings, Observers, and other means of scouting might theoretically render them so)?
Nomads most certainly had their detection back in the latest build.
You can infest protoss buildings, they just spawn infested terrans at this moment and they aren't rly sure what to do about it/with it concerning infested protoss buildings and what they spawn and do.
Banelings are far from gas heavy. They used to benefit from the same speedupgrade as zerglings which made them both as fast. Banelings at the time were 25mins 25 gas to upgrade a single zergling. This does btw also turn a 0.5 supply zergling into a full 1 supply banelings so you will need additional overlords.
This however turned out to be overpowered so they turned the baneling morph into 25 mins 75 gas which resulted in hardly anyone using them since 75 gas, is total overkill, especially in early game SC2 zerg play and you need quite a few of the buggers to actually kill stuffs (except lings or workers I guess).
Hope these were some satisfying answers  .
Both versions ended up as totally unsatisfying so they came up with changing the baneling morph back to 25/25 but lowering the baneling movementspeed to a nonupgraded zerglings and giving them a seperate movement speed increase upgrade which is researchable at the banelingnest once you reach Hive Tech.
Slow banelings are still really strong, and with burrow their speed doesn't really matter but I find it to be a great fix for a problem with a very inspiring and interesting unit. I was really really happy with baneling play at WWI.
When I played Sea he showed with marauder marine micro how well you can counter slow banelings with proper control so I feel it's been a great fix and the unit feels wellrounded and finished atm in every matchup's early game at least. The endgame speedupgrade makes them all the more formidable because the little green rollers become *fast* and are great to flank or backstab a fight with, something they are just too slow for without that grade against an observant opponent in early / midgame.
Nydus worms are actually a summon, you build them like a building on creep. They cost 100 minerals per Worm and theres a 10 sec cooldown on the spawn worm ability so if you want to create more then one at the same time you have to create multiple nydus warrens or wait those 10 sec if youre sticking with just 1 warren.
They actually aren't transporters or real units. They don't move around the map or somthing. You just select your nydus warren (the building enabling them) and select the create nydus worm option and then click it somewhere where theres enough creep and itll roar out of the ground during a 3 second "buildtime/spawntime" and once thats done you can press the "unload all" and it starts regurgitating everything thats inside the nydus system.
You can load any amount of units at any nydus warren or nydus worm on the map and unload them from any nydus worm or warren on the map after it. Or spawn multiple units from multiple worms. If you want to spawn a specific unit you'll have to manually click it in the nydus network from the specific worm you want it to pop from like unloading a specific unit from an overlord. Due to the endless capacity of the nydus network this can take some time browsing through the 30unit tabs tab by tab .
So summarizing on nydus worms, you can't detect their approach, you do get a 1 second warning and a 3 second buildtime to counter them. They are actually pretty weak, just 200 hp a piece I believe so they die pretty quickly. I still think the spawntime is too fast and should be upped from like 3 sec to 5.
The nydus worm system however seems to be really lacking to defend against Collossi on cliffs and cliffdancing or cliff blinking stalker harass or siege tank cliff drops at this point in time.
Cliff play against zerg seems to be a major weakness of the race at the moment and except for "preemptive" nydus worming and building stuff there or keeping an exit ready on a cliff I couldnt really see how you can ever clean a dedicated cliff drop as zerg except by preventing it. The only problem this has is that about every drop tech, especially from a 1 base T is fast then you can get and afford a nydus worm up there.
(however if someone rushes a tank drop like someone tried vs me on a SC2 version of Lost Temple that was one of the maps there, it practically means hes got no other units or enough of them to actually prevent you from taking 2 other safe expos and using your army to prevent any attempts he makes to take his own expo unless he severely tanks that up as well which allows you to take even more expos till you even clear your own cliff.)
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thanks for these posts, very interesting to read
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Can you enter the Nydus network via any Worm/Warren?
edit: Also, your posts are VERY appriciated. :D
edit2: I posted this before reading the whole post. My question has already been asnwered by you, thanks again!:DD
edit3: (LOL) I was talking more about spotting the Overlords rather than Nydus Worms - the new mechanic has been explained in the Dev panel. ^^
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Some simple questions:
So is lurker back to tier 2? Baneling is tier 1 right? or you need lair to build it?
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:04 man wrote:
thanks for these posts, very interesting to read
No problem, glad to share my enthusiasm after WWI with other people! Glad you are enjoying it.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:05 maybenexttime wrote:
Can you enter the Nydus network via any Worm/Warren?
edit: Also, your posts are VERY appriciated. :D
edit2: I posted this before reading the whole post. My question has already been asnwered by you, thanks again!:DD
edit3: (LOL) I was talking more about spotting the Overlords rather than Nydus Worms - the new mechanic has been explained in the Dev panel. ^^
You really need to make sure to know where that first scouting overlord went around your base so it doesn't just hover back in and starts creeping in your main or natural right when he gets his lair and nydus warren finished. It's good to get 1 anti air unit or 1 flyer if it fits in your build just to scare it away if it gets too close to your base or even kill if it you see the opportunity to do so.
Vs a zerg with lair tech you just *have to have* a small group of units and maybe even some static defense in your main at all time or a group of air units roaming the skies to clear up any approaching overlords or to crush a nydus worm as it pops up before it can finish warping in or can unload any decent amount of units.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:16 hzhao wrote:
Some simple questions:
So is lurker back to tier 2? Baneling is tier 1 right? or you need lair to build it?
Banelings require nothing except the banelingnest which requires a spawningpool to build and 100mins/50 gas and it builds relatively fast compared to most tier 1 buildings, like an evochamber I guess. At least it felt that way, don't have hard numbers for you on how many seconds.
After that they require 25 mins and 25 gas per zergling to morph into a baneling and 2 zerglings turn into banelings require a full 2 psi instead of 1 psi for 2 lings.
Banelings are fully tier 1 units with a hive level speed upgrade.
Lurker is back on tier 2 which I believe it always was. What it takes to create a lurker is to get a spawningpool (still 150 mins) then morph a lair (150 mins 200 gas so thats more costly then SCBW), then morph a hydralisk den (200/200) then upgrade the hydralisk then into a Deep Burrow the same way you change a spire into a Greater Spire. This requires no additional tech, like a hive or another building just the investment of 50 minerals and 100 gas to change the hydralisk den into the deep burrow.
After the Deep Burrow finishes your hydralisks (100/100 cost 2 psi) can now morph into lurkers (which requires another 50/100 and another psi).
Maybe the upgrade to deep burrow required hive tech before dunno. All in all lurkers are really damn expensive with the added hydra cost upgrade since thats the base unit for the lurker.
Hope this helped.
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Did u try a muta micro?
did it work?
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OK.
What about Mutas? Is Z mirror mutalings allover again? I assume it isn't. If so, is Infester's Desease a counter to Muta harrass?
Is Muta micro back finally?
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So they simply changed the Lurker aspect upgrade to Deep Burrow so that you can actually tell whether the guy's getting Lurker tech. Pretty neat!
How are Hydralisks at tier 2? Is Zerg anti-air good enough early game? Are Hydras more maneuverable now? Good hit'n'runners?:D
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:40 Krzycho wrote:
Did u try a muta micro?
did it work?
I didn't really try mutas. The spire cost (200/300, yeah thats alot of gas) was just killing me and mutas felt generally weak. You can still pretty much stack mutas, though not as good as in SCBW. The only problem is that once you shoot they all totally decellerate so you can swoop them like you do in SCBW, the whole swoop fire swoop fire swoop fire etc.
I just used them in two proper games and those were both ZvZs where we ended up with muta vs muta but the first game I rolled him because it ended up with mutaling from him vs mutabanelingzergling from me so that took him down, especially after a double nydusworm spawn at his far expo and main at the same time and sending drones through to offensive spinal crawler (sunken colony) him while sending some banelings after his drones.
The second game some zerg, dunno if it was same guy, handled my harass really well, showed some good micro and defended my nydus worm attacks really well so he came out on top with some more mutas and did some good damage to me, then I switched to hydras which just totally raped his mutas silly with my queen backing them up for support (healing, AA fire with good range) which turned the game around. If he would have had better knowledge of the units he would have crushed me that game, just my hydra switch and their surprised effectiveness won me the game, not my skill or build.
summary: you cant muta micro like you could, but they are *trying* to fix that, but they actually have to break and ruin parts of their game engine to get that done haha.
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yet again question about Overlord but quick:
What building upgrades Ovies so they can do Creep?
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Calgary25991 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:53 MrRammstein wrote:
yet again question about Overlord but quick:
What building upgrades Ovies so they can do Creep?
Lair
Mutas suck and turn like cars and need to be on top of things to fire.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:42 maybenexttime wrote:
OK.
What about Mutas? Is Z mirror mutalings allover again? I assume it isn't. If so, is Infester's Desease a counter to Muta harrass?
Is Muta micro back finally?
Mutas are nice for harass but I couldn't figure a matchup or build where I ended up using them convincingly.
No you cannot muta micro like you can in SCBW but blizzard is trying to ruin their game engine partly so they can reproduce this effect for mutas and certain other units since they found it to have become an essential part of the dynamic "starcraft feel".
Disease is pretty damn nice and would be nice vs muta's I guess. It's same tech level as mutas and its contageous effect is so nice. It would require muta splitting like vs irradiate which would be easier though due to the half stacking and the contagion time (at this point in time in SC2 but if they get the stacking and swooping back in its still as hard if not harder). So it wouldn't hardcounter them but it would most certainly help dealing with them alot.
I found disease to be the best used vs the terran ball if you infested two sides of the ball at once while attacking it so he can hardly split the infected units off. Cluttering marines/infantry make it just the perfect target, just as it did for plague. But since disease now works % based and not flat out hp/sec reduction it's alot weaker then plague compared to use against low hp units but infinately stronger vs high hp units like the ultralisk.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:57 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2008 08:53 MrRammstein wrote:
yet again question about Overlord but quick:
What building upgrades Ovies so they can do Creep? Lair Mutas suck and turn like cars and need to be on top of things to fire.
Yeah lair and like chill said, they are soooooooooooo fat and slow compared to SCBW unlike the dynamic harass unit. Only reason they can harass in SC2 is cause they still remain relatively fast flyer units which are always two good things when harassing.
I find them not worth their cost, let alone the 300 gas for the spire.
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Does Disease work on mechanical units (like Plague and unlike Irradiate)?
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 08:45 maybenexttime wrote:
So they simply changed the Lurker aspect upgrade to Deep Burrow so that you can actually tell whether the guy's getting Lurker tech. Pretty neat!
How are Hydralisks at tier 2? Is Zerg anti-air good enough early game? Are Hydras more maneuverable now? Good hit'n'runners?:D
Hydras are excelent to dance with, especially with the new clutter and movement system thats just so incredibly smoothe (except for air units which are a pain to watch move around).
Zerg anti air seems to be a bit problematic, you got spores... meh, Queen nice but still 1 unit so totally useless when searching for a dependable anti air counter, mutas seem totally shit and weak vs just about anything, corruptors are a JOKE I found them to be really really bad and then the lack of scourges...
This ends up with you looking towards the brand new 100/100 2 psi hydras to deal with air which they do really nicely actually! Theres just one big ass problem, they're ground units so air can just cliff hug or air/water/lava/space whatever to just dodge them and use the terrain to avoid the hydra mob.
As far as that goes, I didnt have one game where someone actually went dedicated air against me so I don't know how they actually fare against mass air except mass mutas and they totally raped that silly. Added to that how they perform against armored units in general (thors, stalkers, vikings colossi) I expect them to perform admirably. With the only problem that zerg seems to be dead as far as their air units go which REALLY needs looking at.
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So you think that even tho hydras and mutas cost the same, while mutas have more health and are more mobile. Hydras are still usually worth it because they do more dmg than mutas?
Also, can the infestor use all it's spells while burrowed? And can it move through cliffs while burrowed like the old nydus worm would?
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 01 2008 09:03 maybenexttime wrote:
Does Disease work on mechanical units (like Plague and unlike Irradiate)?
Yes it does, at least in this build it was different before, but before it also was a single diseased unit having a kind of damage aura that hurt units near it, now it actively spreads from unit to unit.
Anyways off to bed, ill check if theres more tomorrow and start on the blog.
nn'`~~
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If they will repair Mutas all will be good x) I wonder what they will do with Currupters...
Did you try Swarm Guardians? Do they make Broodlings with every attack?
edit: heh Good Night 
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