EPT[V] Starcraft 2 WWI VOD - Page 20
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Avidkeystamper
United States8551 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19124 Posts
On July 07 2008 04:51 xenero wrote: Most people are saying that the Medivac is misplaced because it doesn't feel right. But as a unit, it provides a lategame boost for the terran by allowing more effective base raids. Especially with marauder backup. I feel that the Medivac will get more love once people see how ownage it is. Also, it has maneuverability. Wait, how is this different then a marine medic drop in SCBW? | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8551 Posts
Edit: I mean how there's no medics to take up slots in the dropship. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19124 Posts
On July 07 2008 05:41 xenero wrote: I think you would be able to fit more units in it, and I would guess when the marines (marauders too?) die, you still have the dropship. Edit: I mean how there's no medics to take up slots in the dropship. Yeah thats prolly 1-2 more marines, but now you bring marauders instead which I believe take 2 slots. And now your dropship has to remain there during combat instead of in SCBW where it could ferry more units into a base of fly off and go do something else. Plus when your marines die in SCBW you still have the dropship too hehe. I don't see this as an improvement at all, just a change which doesn't really improve on anything. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On July 07 2008 05:43 Nyovne wrote: Yeah thats prolly 1-2 more marines, but now you bring marauders instead which I believe take 2 slots. And now your dropship has to remain there during combat instead of in SCBW where it could ferry more units into a base of fly off and go do something else. Plus when your marines die in SCBW you still have the dropship too hehe. I don't see this as an improvement at all, just a change which doesn't really improve on anything. Considering that terrans infantry lineup is much more powerfull if you do not count the medic, if you then get the now much improved infantry army + healing it sure is a huge buff over the old terran bio army. Basically this gives terran bio a lategame. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19124 Posts
On July 07 2008 05:57 Klockan3 wrote: Considering that terrans infantry lineup is much more powerfull if you do not count the medic, if you then get the now much improved infantry army + healing it sure is a huge buff over the old terran bio army. Basically this gives terran bio a lategame. Swarmguardians, disease (plague), ultras, collossi, psistorm, lurkers, siegetanks, thors, banshees, hivetech graded roaches, battlecruisers, jackals, chargegraded zeals and hivegraded banelings still absolutely rape bio for the same reasons as bio was weak in SCBW though so I wonder how this is going to turn out. AOE still destroys marines at an absolitely appalling rate (as in 2 siege tanks shoot once and 13 marines instantly vaporize into red mist). So I wonder how this is going to turn out like I said hehe. | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
1) Is Banelings' team color problem in ZvZ solved? How do they look like? 2) OK I'm not sure if this was answered already: Burrowed and non-burrowed units are treated separately (like old cloaked and non cloaked) to avoid burrow as default order for them all (I mean in BW all units selected have to be burrowed 1st to order them to unburrow)? 3) Looking on the units' statistics on some site and abilities they have I noticed there wasn't Nomad's AoE Defensive Matrix anymore... but Nyovne do you think it could tweak infantry based army? Or may it be good, being forced to switch tech at the some point of the game? (or just treat them as disposable units more ;P) 4) Obvious but just to be sure: Under any circumstances Medivac doesn't heal multiple targets (like one outside of it and one inside)? Even if not, could it be way to go to tweak it, assuming Medics won't come back to the game? | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19124 Posts
On July 07 2008 10:14 MrRammstein wrote: edit: shit forgot about the most important one 1) Is Banelings' team color problem in ZvZ solved? How do they look like? 2) OK I'm not sure if this was answered already: Burrowed and non-burrowed units are treated separately (like old cloaked and non cloaked) to avoid burrow as default order for them all (I mean in BW all units selected have to be burrowed 1st to order them to unburrow)? 3) Looking on the units' statistics on some site and abilities they have I noticed there wasn't Nomad's AoE Defensive Matrix anymore... but Nyovne do you think it could tweak infantry based army? Or may it be good, being forced to switch tech at the some point of the game? (or just treat them as disposable units more ;P) 4) Obvious but just to be sure: Under any circumstances Medivac doesn't heal multiple targets (like one outside of it and one inside)? Even if not, could it be way to go to tweak it, assuming Medics won't come back to the game? 1) I actually have no idea at all but in the few ZvZs ive played I experienced no problem at all, at least nothing that cought my notice as being a problem that is. 2) No there is no "tab between different unit condition" option in SC2. All units still have to be burrowed before they unburrow so if 10 units are burrowed and you add another 10 to the controlgroup and press burrow the remaining 10 will burrow while the previous 10 will remain burrowed. I personally prefer this way for the reason I just stated, it makes changing and adding to control groups just so much easier and you can still just control-click or double click a burrowed unit and you will get all burrowed units of that type on screen under your control. Especially the last is alot easier because units are now identifiable by type while burrowed and alot easier to select while burrowed like in SCBW where you kinda had to drag-select them. I liked how it worked now and I used burrow in each and every game I played with zerg, but offcourse this is a personal preference and doesn't mean squat compared to how other people will experience it. 3) I have no idea how AOE-matrix would play but it would most definately be a tuned down matrix compared to SCBW where it is really strong in my opinion. Terran infantry felt buff enough as they were, especially with the highhp marauder and ghost, the 25% hp upgrade for marines etc. I currently don't see any real problems with terran infantry that weren't already there in SCBW (aka vulnerability vs pretty much any AOE effect ingame that vaporizes just scores of them into red mist). To add to that I believe terrans, especially their infantry, gameplay- as well as lore-wise should be expendable. To be more exact, terrans to my feel are highcost high hitting support units which are far from expendable (marauders, tanks, thors, battlecruisers, sciencevessels in SCBW, nomads in SC2 etc) that are surrounded by expendable meatshields (vultures, marines, jackals, reapers, etc). Terran has in SCBW always felt to me like there are highyield units you need to protect that form the core of your army, your "terran ball" so to speak of while they are surrounded and protected by cheap (marines, vults in SCBW, marines and jackals in SC2) units that are easily replenishable and you are doing fine as terran as long as that expensive unit "core" of your "ball" stays intact to keep your push pushing so to speak while rallying more meat into the grinder before and around it. I mean terran isn't zerg where you just swarm in with expendable high amounts of units. Terran also lacks the speed and mobility of the zerg and requires to be grouped and in formation to deliver its punch. But there definately is an expendable ring of meat around your bang and SC2 felt like they captured that feeling pretty well for terran which pleased me alot. 4) I cannot say this with absolute certainty but I don't think medivacs heal units inside them but they might very well do that. I hope someone can help us out on this and clarify it for us. Sorry can't really help you here. Outside they just heal one unit at a time but I think a bit faster then a medic used to but again, cannot say this with any real certainty. One thing I do really feel as a thing to make a point of is that Terran has two real casters (ghost and Nomad allthough the nomad needs some work imho on its abilities) and im not counting the medivac just cause it can heal, protoss has three real casters (nullifier, high templar and the Mothership). But the zerg is kinda stuck on 1.5, the infestors are the only real caster unit for the zerg with the Queen being a 0.25% caster and the overseer having energy and spawn changeling are another 0.25% caster. Toss seems fine on this matter, especially on the power of their spells. Ghosts seems great great units as well, support, small scale combat, harassment as well as caster wise (EMP, snipe, cloak, nuke + great base damage) but nomads need some identity and a hand, I find their turrets and spidermines atm far from great or inspirational and I hope to see some work on that. That targetting drone I saw somewhere (attaches to target, target takes 50% more damage for a duration of x seconds) seemed like a great 3rd ability for them to start out with without additional upgrades (along with them being a detector unit) required. But their two researchable spells really need a good looking at imho. Queens are cool units, but they really need to keep that "heal" or regenerate or w/e its called stays the way it was and that it keeps working on units! For the rest swarminfestation is nice vs drops but nothing overly awsome, the Queen is just a good unit but I wish it had a little more personality to it as being the one that spawns/builds the zerg defensive structures. I still feel disappointed that they removed that along with scvs building thors, it felt refreshing, cool and fitting both of it. (well at least to my tastes hehe) Infestors "infestation" and "disease" were powerfull spells but dark swarm felt really weak without consume and might be OP if consume were in the game (we dont know yet if zerg needs something like swarm to be able to stand up against other races, terran especially, in the endgame phase). Plus I felt that infestors at a 100/200 cost are overpriced and should at least be brought back to defiler cost of 50/150, they simply cost way too much for what they bring to the fight. They are totally not on par with ghosts at the moment for the same cost. All in all casters and their abilities need a bit of a looking at still imho, protoss *seemed* fine on this account but I hardly played them so I hope someone can comfirm my paper suspicions or deny them. Zerg and Terran casters really need a little workover and I feel that Overseers should get another real spell (support spell, nothing offensive!) to bring the zerg up to par and that Infestors need a proper role and that the Queens gets a bit more personality (but just a little, I really liked it, but again personal preference). | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19124 Posts
I love how 90% of the units in starcraft are still basic fire and move units and are easy and intuitive to use. Just how it should be. But those few casters there are (2-3 per race) should really have a better role and identity, especially like the nullifier and high templar already have for the Protoss (mothership less so, still feels a bit like a confused unit). | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5361 Posts
edit: Maybe this could be a channeling spell by the Overseer. ^__^ edit: The "new" Infester's spell could be a buffed version of Ensnare, which would, besides the regular effect (probably altered somehow) it had in BW, be castable on the ground to prevent units from fleeing. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5361 Posts
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
If yes, doesn't it render high hp and air units pretty much obsolete? | ||
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Showtime!
Canada2938 Posts
On July 07 2008 22:53 Klockan3 wrote: Overseer should get ensnare, fits the flying blob concept. I have to agree with him here. I really think this is a good idea. Perhaps it should make units almost stick to the ground as well, sort of like maelstorm. | ||
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Ideas
United States8037 Posts
I would like to see the Overseer become a real spellcaster on par with other flying spellcasters. I don't really like the changeling spell (seems like it'd only be useful when used on someone who doesn't even know what changelings are), but I think Overseer needs 1 or 2 more "real" spells. I also think a good idea, in order to make all 3 races' flying spellcaster more distinct would be to have only overseers able to drop creep(maybe creep would need to be buffed to compensate for fewer things able to drop it). This way the Zerg "flying spellcaster" unit would actually be used more. In BW the Vessel had perm. detection, while the Arbitor had perm. cloak, and the Queen had 2 spells that cost too much psi energy. Maybe not dropping creep, but some sort of passive ability on the overseer (preferably something different from cloaking or detecting to set it apart from other units) on top of some other spells I think is what the Zerg need (and scourge too). | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5361 Posts
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
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Ideas
United States8037 Posts
On July 09 2008 14:31 MrRammstein wrote: Could Overlords / Overseers cast Slime(?) to infest minerals? From the sounds of it, that ability was in an earlier build and wasn't present in the WWI build (haven't heard anything about it being in that build), although I have no idea. | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
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