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Bisutopia19141 Posts
On August 19 2015 04:54 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 15:55 dRaW wrote:
Nina let me tell you something...
You suck at brood war.
You don't understand the game.
You ALWAYS pick fights you can't win.
Check those games Sziky vs Scan, he played OFF-RACE against Sziky and STILL wins. Show me 15 ZvT where Sziky beats Scan, I want to see them. I really don't think I should've expected any less than a completely petulantly immature reply, because you're spilling your personal vitriol into an argument where you completely bungled your original post to me by glossing over my post. I actually will make a small replay pack. I've already watched a bunch of ZvT games from Defiler where Sziky, does in fact, win. There is some ZvZ, but Sziky wins a majority of those. Unfortunately, because of broken links in Defiler Tours 11, 16, and 69, broken links on GG.net, and the fact that Scan only uploads his wins in 3-1 series' means you probably won't get as much masturbation material as you'd like.
Are you two on a trial separation or realize you both main two different races? Return to sunshine and rainbows please.
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On August 19 2015 04:54 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 15:55 dRaW wrote:
Nina let me tell you something...
You suck at brood war.
You don't understand the game.
You ALWAYS pick fights you can't win.
Check those games Sziky vs Scan, he played OFF-RACE against Sziky and STILL wins. Show me 15 ZvT where Sziky beats Scan, I want to see them. completely petulantly
holy multiple adverbs batman
its adverbs in posts like this that are not killing Starcraft.. in fact, they make the milieu of the game more alive... this debate will definitely motivate me to check out a few Brood War replays that's for sure.
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Nina, under the current rules, nothing is mentioned about koreans/chinese players playing in the series of tournaments. The "thing" is even written in the FAQ section. We interpret it as a "rule" in our discussions talk. This is yet another show in my eyes of the thoughtlessness of whoever wrote it. At least this is what I see in the main thread. Correct me if I'm wrong.
So, under the current FAQ, Scan is not allowed to play, he is an exception. The so called exception is described by Stratos as the average TL member. But all I see in Scan's posts repetitevely are some form of the following seemingly selfish statement "I am just taking my opportunity as a player". I don't remember a post along the lines of "As a member of the community I decided to...". Defiler tours are no contributions... the guy just probably likes the soft competition to extract money from. And he got away with it as Yoda and the defiler tours were as lilberal as they could get.
I believe I placed bigger efforts than Scan in my "Under the Radar" thread than him when opening that 3page thread, or turning his stream on, or reviewing translations here and there. All I could do, in relation to his contributions, is just keep guessing whether or not the iccup 2v2 laddering specifically helped players or didn't.
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Also, Cele, my logic goes like this:
I see thoughtless/incompetentent comment/action -> I argument finely against it -> then I receive thoughtless/incompetent responses -> I further confirm the person is incompetent/not as competent as me on the matter and search the roots in stuff like low iccup ranking and so on -> I start to read and respond far less diligently to such posters.
and NOT like this:
Some guy commented -> check the guy at iccup for his rank before reading his comment -> This guy is D -> LOL GTFO -> ???
This is why I joked with Peeano asking him for best rank, knowing that he was pretty off in his judgement. And this is why I will easily dismiss the football comparason as it is very inappropriate.
This is why TL staff is incompetent in my eyes. 3 issues:
1. Paranoid Android -> TL staff is not even aware of it -> People argumenting finely it's imba -> TL "Ok, we checked it, it's fine" -> Me saying the check is stone-age-alike, it could be fixed easily -> TL: "Ok, it's imba, we will remove it" -> ????
Why not place some efforts and fix it?
2. KOR-EU/US connection -> Me before the cups: lag issues -> TL: "What why? No." -> Three cups later 4 players complain from a single player about lag in a single tournament -> TL: No lag.
3. TL: The rule we are arguing about for so much time is actually a FAQ.
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On a separate note:
I am not complaining in just about every post like the Expcetion about how I lost my time discussing this and how stressed I became. Everybody spending their time posting in these discussions could have easily done something more productive in relation to BW than discussing this here. The average TL member does not complain. But The Average TL member does.
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12 out of 10 african children die because you don't try to get team bulgaria to play team germany.
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On August 19 2015 06:43 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
Everybody spending their time posting in these discussions could have easily done something more productive in relation to BW than discussing this here.
now i feel guilty
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On August 19 2015 06:34 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
So, under the current FAQ, Scan is not allowed to play, he is an exception. The so called exception is described by Stratos as the average TL member.
That's not how the basis on which the exception was made nor how it is defended. It is but a small part that played into the decision making that I was trying to explain, though I'm aware of how that may have caused some confusion.
I believe I placed bigger efforts than Scan in my "Under the Radar" thread than him when opening that 3page thread, or turning his stream on, or reviewing translations here and there. All I could do, in relation to his contributions, is just keep guessing whether or not the iccup 2v2 laddering specifically helped players or didn't.
Maybe, I honestly don't measure people's contributions here. It was never meant to be a competition in contributions anyway. Scan's contributions were once or twice brought up to illustrate that he is indeed a member of our community. They were not the basis for him being allowed in the cups or being considered a member of our community in the first place.
Comparing his contributions to anyone else's doesn't make much sense imo. I'm not sure what you're trying to 'win'? As far as I know, you're allowed and welcome to play in the TLCs or contribute in any way you see fit, including sharing your opinions. Noone is taking that away from you.
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On August 19 2015 08:52 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2015 06:34 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
So, under the current FAQ, Scan is not allowed to play, he is an exception. The so called exception is described by Stratos as the average TL member. That's not how the basis on which the exception was made nor how it is defended. It is but a small part that played into the decision making that I was trying to explain, though I'm aware of how that may have caused some confusion. Show nested quote +I believe I placed bigger efforts than Scan in my "Under the Radar" thread than him when opening that 3page thread, or turning his stream on, or reviewing translations here and there. All I could do, in relation to his contributions, is just keep guessing whether or not the iccup 2v2 laddering specifically helped players or didn't.
Maybe, I honestly don't measure people's contributions here. It was never meant to be a competition in contributions anyway. Scan's contributions were once or twice brought up to illustrate that he is indeed a member of our community. They were not the basis for him being allowed in the cups or being considered a member of our community in the first place. Comparing his contributions to anyone else's doesn't make much sense imo. I'm not sure what you're trying to 'win'? As far as I know, you're allowed and welcome to play in the TLCs or contribute in any way you see fit, including sharing your opinions. Noone is taking that away from you.
The so called contributions are not sufficient to give him the privillege to be an exception, to lecture all other players on lag issues and complain that we are wasting his time and stressing him by discussing this
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This all feels like a war to me where many, if not most, players are on one side of the barricade, while TL bw staff is on the other.
Did nobody notice how 2pacalypse basically said that all TLS players and their attitude was the problem and that they were apathic when in reality relatively thorough preparation was happening? Relatively thorough because for example i did not have too much time to practice but i prepared when i was able to do so.
Also did nobody notice the intro of the TLS Championship write up
"Through lots of preparation, hard work and unrivaled passion by BW staff, all three tournaments ran really well and helped provide some much needed rejuvenation for a community that thrived on its unequivocal love for the game."
So, the BW staff is the best thing to happen to foreign BW and the players, that are not even mentioned, are trying to ruin it?
Or perhaps this is all "drama" was purposefully made to strengthen foreign bw activity?
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I just said that his contributions weren't even the basis for his allowance.. Regardless of that, you can think that they were or weren't sufficient but you don't get to decided that. If you want to make those calls you can put in the hours, join us as a staff member and work on future events with us. We could surely use a highly skilled veteran on our side if you're interested.
Btw, Scan's "so-called contributions" were contributions, smaller or bigger, and by continually mocking them you're only making yourself look like a dick. I don't know/care if you have any personal issues with the guy but if you do I suggest you deal with them in a different way, because this is really only hurting your image here.
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I can't believe everything I just read, I am not going to write a really long summary because I just got done arguing with you on Skype before I even knew about this blog.
1. This is a Foreign Tournament, Scan is Korean.
2. Scan is Korean.
3. People cannot just practice harder to beat Scan and even if they could, he is Korean.
4. You and everyone supporting Scan playing in this tournament, are not playing in this tournament themselves or even playing BW actively / trying to improve in BW actively.
5. It isn't the entire BW foreign scene wanting a FOREIGN tournament with no Korean that is killing StarCraft.
I'll tell you what is killing StarCraft...
Shit Posts / Blogs like yours where people say "StarCraft is dying" or "You are killing StarCraft"
You sir are killing StarCraft. With your ego and negative attitude. Please go back to CS:GO.
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What if regardless of the TL announcement, the BW staff, for the most part, is still persuaded that Scan should have played? From their perspective, perhaps i am the "cocky pretending to be competent somewhat good and inactive player that is very uncomfortable to deal with cuz he is harshly pointing stuff".
It doesnt feel very motivational to be perceived as such - neither for me, nor for them as 2pac already stated that we were a problem during the much more "peaceful" TLS tournaments
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Besides not touching on 90% of what i said, Stratos - what is this so called basis?
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On August 19 2015 09:37 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
What if regardless of the TL announcement, the BW staff, for the most part, is still persuaded that Scan should have played? From their perspective, perhaps i am the "cocky pretending to be competent somewhat good and inactive player that is very uncomfortable to deal with cuz he is harshly pointing stuff".
It doesnt feel very motivational to be perceived as such - neither for me, nor for them as 2pac already stated that we were a problem during the much more "peaceful" TLS tournaments
I can't speak for anyone else but I was persuaded by 2Pac a while ago that it's the right thing to do, mainly considering the long break we've had since the last tournaments. I don't perceive this as any kind of war with one players on one side and TOs on the other. I feel either on friendly or neutral terms with all of the players including those that voiced their concerns.
If you're interested in how I percieve you, I think you're sometimes letting your emotions get the better of you and unnecessarily undermine your position in the discussion by acting hostile. I suffer that very problem and often have to re-write my posts multiple times, so I can relate. Or maybe I'm just projecting my own problems on you, who knows. At the end of the day I try take the core of what you're saying as a highly skilled player and veteran of the scene and try to keep it in mind to form a more accurate opinion on the matter.
I only hope you'll either start playing again or maybe involve yourself in casting the cups or some other ways despite the things that have been said when they shouldn't, which was a bad move on our part.
On August 19 2015 09:40 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
Besides not touching on 90% of what i said, Stratos - what is this so called basis?
This has been discussed so many times and I'm only staying up the night to finish a vid so I hope you'll pardon me but I won't be going into that at all.
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Stratos, no it hasnt.
Please check the main thread and see all of 2pacalypses posts. He says: "scan is part of the foreign bw community because of the contributions. End of discussion. Also go practice" what a solid basis
2pacalypse basically managed to dodge almost all of my posts in a 30 page thread and leave them unanswered.
What does it matter if im officially part of the tl bw staff? Im putting actual hours here to post to only be seemingly ignored for 30+ pages? And to be perceived as a hostile dick?
Good stuff
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+ Show Spoiler +
I can't believe people are frothing at the mouth about this.
The rules are rules. If Scan is allowed to play, then Scan is allowed to play. That being said, if the decision wasn't unanimous among the members of TL admins, then you guys simply screwed up, and need to quickly come to a consensus and squash this stupid beef. You guys are responsible for setting up / formatting the tournaments, if there's some sort of issue with how the tournament is being run, the blame rests solely with you (as in, the corporate entity that is TL). Not the players. You.
Either lay the law down and ban the dissenters from these tournaments and reinforce the "practice more" ethos, or ban Scan for being Korean. What needs to happen is an actual unanimous decision, not this endless cycle of bickering with no results. Honestly this whole thing casts a horrible light on the BW community and makes Team Liquid look like a Mickey Mouse operation. Stop being juvenile, act like professionals.
Oh, and let it go.
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On August 19 2015 10:57 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
Stratos, no it hasnt.
Please check the main thread and see all of 2pacalypses posts. He says: "scan is part of the foreign bw community because of the contributions. End of discussion. Also go practice" what a solid basis
2pacalypse basically managed to dodge almost all of my posts in a 30 page thread and leave them unanswered.
What does it matter if im officially part of the tl bw staff? Im putting actual hours here to post to only be seemingly ignored for 30+ pages? And to be perceived as a hostile dick?
Good stuff
2pac probably 'dodged' your questions because they have mostly been answered time and time again already, plus there were some seriously inappropriate ones like, 'I want the nicknames of the people that made the decision'. That kind of demand would barely make sense coming from Nazgul and I can't even imagine him voicing it that way. You are free to put in the hours but we're not payed to answer your questions and we're certainly not payed to answer your questions time and time again if you keep mocking us during the process.
We were following the threads, discussing things and eventually decided to listen to the requests. It is unfortunate but yes, because you voiced your complaints the way you did, your input has been a bit overshadowed by your agressive tone, although the underlying message wasn't lost on us. Anyway, I already admitted we have made some mistakes and I don't have the time or the mood to discuss this with you further. Maybe it's me, maybe it's you, but I don't like the atmosphere of this discussion and you're not entitled to my time and energy.
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I'm sorry but I still cannot believe you had the nerve and audacity to name your blog "You are killing StarCraft", this entire blog is just sad and upsetting.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On August 19 2015 11:14 jeeeeohn wrote:+ Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-EZNWeei9Q I can't believe people are frothing at the mouth about this. The rules are rules. If Scan is allowed to play, then Scan is allowed to play. That being said, if the decision wasn't unanimous among the members of TL admins, then you guys simply screwed up, and need to quickly come to a consensus and squash this stupid beef. You guys are responsible for setting up / formatting the tournaments, if there's some sort of issue with how the tournament is being run, the blame rests solely with you (as in, the corporate entity that is TL). Not the players. You. Either lay the law down and ban the dissenters from these tournaments and reinforce the "practice more" ethos, or ban Scan for being Korean. What needs to happen is an actual unanimous decision, not this endless cycle of bickering with no results. Honestly this whole thing casts a horrible light on the BW community and makes Team Liquid look like a Mickey Mouse operation. Stop being juvenile, act like professionals. Oh, and let it go.
A hardline response to every form of disagreement is a great way to alienate people. Would you really like it if all of the top players who take exception to Scan being here chose not to participate in TLC as a form of protest? People who have strong contributions tend to have strong opinions on the matter, and you also might notice that the best players here (Eon, Technics, Draw, Telecom, and maybe Eriador) are basically of one opinion on the matter. Whether or not you agree, perhaps it's worth listening to what they might have to say on the topic?
People have opinions. Silence those, and you won't have many people left. Do you really think that anyone cares about the prize pool? No, for these guys it's a chance to test their skills in a fun format with a small reward. Take away the motivation to play, and they won't - simple as that.
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EPT
