On August 18 2015 03:33 Djzapz wrote: At the end of the day, Starcraft is entirely capable of dying out on its own and I don't think that the toxicity is coming out of no where, it has a source in the context. I for one don't believe that negativity is the cause of SCBW's decline, the causal link is the other way around. SCBW is declining naturally during the convergence of its various enemies: new OSes which don't properly support it, its fall into obsolescence in a world where simple and user friendliness becomes the norm, among other things. The toxicity is the result of this decline, and perhaps it expedites the process but it's not causing it.
There seems to be an awful lot of this sentiment around that BW is in some manner dying. This baffles me. BW is absolutely flourishing and gaining momentum since 2012. There is justification for serious concern about new blood, but for anyone that reads this forum it should be readily apparent that BW has only been growing stronger and stronger since it suffered the brutal blows of being dropped from KeSPA and Korean TV.
Now, if you want to talk about that tiny microcosm of BW that is foreign BW, there is an argument to be made that BW is dying. And to some extent that is inevitable, KR may prove to be the exception, but outside of that I cannot envision a situation in which you'll get consistent enough new faces playing BW to match the pace of those who do leave. Given the attitudes of people toward gaming nowadays, the fact that BW is an older game, the decreasing level of compatibility with new OS, I cannot see what event or change would lead to sufficient interest in playing BW amongst new players to draw them in at a rate faster than older players will leave.
On the short term, foreign BW has been more asleep than it is dead/dying. Nobody was willing to organize tours, and without that incentive many of the top guys stopped playing. If there is never a good forum for competition you lose the carrot to work hard on a game. BW may be fun to play, but to play many hours a day seriously to improve is probably not as fun; and certainly has a much greater time cost that must come from other parts of a persons life. Without any purpose or motivation to train top players naturally stopped playing, or played far, far less than they did. Now there are consistent tours with promises of a large one and you're seeing most of the strong guys coming back out to play.
BW has stabilized at a point significantly lower than it was during the progaming era, and the sponsorship support just isn't likely to be there for substantial expansion - the scene is strongly bankrolled by Sonic right now, and that isn't sustainable. It's fair to worry about it's future, though I'd call it more so "weak" than "dying." Because what we have now is sure better than the near-death BW we had after progaming died.
On August 18 2015 09:09 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Nina, Scan is perfectly fit for playing in the cups as long as all koreans are allowed to play imo. But certainly not for a foreigner tournament that mentions the word foreign/foreigner in every second sentence. Rewatch Wallace's art and enjoy the day/night ahead. In my eyes opening a thread, angling foreigner competition/money and reviewing a translation does not make him that worthy of a contributor to receive such a privillege. I agree though the 2v2 iccup laddering might be considered correctly as a significant contribution but who knows. If we could find 20+ 2v2 players openly stating that without his focused help they would be far worse in 2v2 then i will be interested in a discussion. Probably the very first thing i said in the very first post of mine on the issue was related to lag. Three cups later the privilliged korean supposed contributor lectured just about every foreigner that dared to speak about lag vs him, with a very specific tone that i could not qualify as mannered, describing players as unwilling to pay low monthly fees for internet or describing whole nations as undeveloped. How do you feel about that?
How do I feel about that? It's not my show to run. I merely was pointing out that Scan met the criteria put forth by the TL staff for participants who were born in Korea. If it were up to me, and I was Queen of The Tournaments, I would actually probably not allow people born in Korea. But it's not my decision to make.
I very much respect you, Eon and Wallace, both as players and people, so I listen to what you have to say about the matter. I don't think Scan has always been that tactful when communicating his feelings to others, so it may come across as arrogance or that he's being bad-mannered. I don't ever think that someone's manners should bar them from playing though, unless they say that Australia is part of Asia. That's the only thing I will not tolerate.
All jokes aside, you have every right to your opinion on the matter. I'm not gonna be like "Don't say this" or "Say that instead". The only thing I can really say is that under the current rules, Scan is allowed to play.
On August 18 2015 11:00 dRaW wrote: @Nina, you are wrong. Scan will win 98%+ TvZ BoX vs Sziky for cash. (I can count the TvZ he lost to him in defiler tour on 1 hand)
Didn't realize you had a hand with 15 fingers.
What was it that I said? Oh right
On August 18 2015 06:04 ninazerg wrote: I know Scan has won more games overall in more recent competition, but that does not diminish how dominant Sziky has been over ALL of the top-level competition.
I said that Sziky has been able to beat every other foreigner consistently. Head-to-head with Scan in tournaments with money, their record isn't anywhere nearly as lopsided as "98%+" (which makes no sense... what's the plus for? Why 98%? How did you come up with this number?)
I'm not even saying Sziky will beat Scan, because it'd be stupid to predict the future based on past results, I'm just saying you're going out of your way to go "NO UR WRONG" when I didn't say anything wrong. And your beard looks stupid.
You suck at brood war. You don't understand the game. You ALWAYS pick fights you can't win. Check those games Sziky vs Scan, he played OFF-RACE against Sziky and STILL wins. Show me 15 ZvT where Sziky beats Scan, I want to see them.
On August 18 2015 15:55 dRaW wrote: Nina let me tell you something...
You suck at brood war. You don't understand the game. You ALWAYS pick fights you can't win. Check those games Sziky vs Scan, he played OFF-RACE against Sziky and STILL wins. Show me 15 ZvT where Sziky beats Scan, I want to see them.
On August 18 2015 11:00 dRaW wrote: I would deeply appreciate it if you guys rotated a NEW ACTIVE caster with Sayle every week and had them also cast other things. I feel like if you really want BW to grow then you need to get Sayle off the monopoly of followers. Whenever I watch L_Master or another cast (even previously in Gambit Cup, etc) they would have a third or less of the viewers that Sayle has for any particular event, maybe even a smaller portion if it was a large cup.
So now Sayle is killing foreign BW because he's the one that draws the most viewers? I don't think so. This is about people not being interested in low-level games full of very visible errors (compared to Koreans). The people you're talking about are people watching Sayle for Sayle regardless of/despite the games. He's not even casting the games on his channel. Don't get me wrong, we've seen some enjoyable games but that is what it comes down to. And I'm not saying players are somehow obliged to change that. It's just something that we'll have to learn to work with as people get older.
On the other hand, the one thing foreigner tours have going for them is people knowing the players more intimately. But if all they get to see is them flaming one another and anyone in sight, blaming anyone and anything they can think of, then go figure. When was the last tour that wasn't tainted by drama? I'm sure rus_brain can't wait to sponsor another tour seeing the reactions. He actually can't but that's because he's a crazy guy (in a very good sense). We're a community of grownups but I doubt an outsider could tell. Sure, some drama can be fun but it's only entertaining to watch Julia whine about everything for so long. We say we'll revisit things in a couple of tours and what do we get? Players storming off saying how nothing will change and how disappointed he is in the admins. And of course 50 more pages of people repeating themselves in a struggle to find new ways of insulting Scan and the organizers. How is anyone supposed to look up to people acting like that? Eon you may have not thrown those games but you said a week earlier that you'd rather just gg instead of playing Scan so wonder why your epic rush may have been misinterpreted...
I'm not putting all the blame on the players but if we had more figures like Drone, bakuryu or Zaraki then things would be easier. Of course this isn't the one problem and the ultimate solution to everything. But it's something everyone should take a moment to think about. Of course this includes us as the organizers. Some things could have been handled better. Maybe this blog also?
Personally for me, the Scan witch hunt was the most disappointing thing to witness. It's one thing to voice your opinion on the matter and another to belittle, discredit and flame another player and member of the community just because he decided to play in something he was allowed in. If that's the kind of sportsmanship you're hoping the fans will get hooked on then things probably won't be getting any better.
On August 18 2015 15:55 dRaW wrote: Nina let me tell you something...
You suck at brood war. You don't understand the game. You ALWAYS pick fights you can't win.
(defiler chat quote)It's entertaining though, all these noob who don't play complain to the gamers
On August 17 2015 21:08 dRaW wrote: I would give Jaehoon like a c/c+ rating for his performance, Hero a c-/c and the terrans failing grades... Seems like both of them couldn't follow standard build orders without any threat or pressure from the opponents, then rolled over and died.
So you are super duper qualified to make judgements then? you are best foreigner? you can beat c+ rank fish players, Scan, Bisu, Mind all of them consistently? you play terran proficiently to shoot down Last and Bishop (both actually wayyyyy better than you.)
Then going on to insult Nina and Sayle who has made effort to rope in and get new players interested in BW...
noob calling others noobs, kek. thanks for your efforts to keep BW alive.
On August 17 2015 21:08 dRaW wrote: I would give Jaehoon like a c/c+ rating for his performance, Hero a c-/c and the terrans failing grades... Seems like both of them couldn't follow standard build orders without any threat or pressure from the opponents, then rolled over and died.
So you are super duper qualified to make judgements then? you are best foreigner? you can beat c+ rank fish players, Scan, Bisu, Mind all of them consistently? you play terran proficiently to shoot down Last and Bishop (both actually wayyyyy better than you.)
Then going on to insult Nina and Sayle who has made effort to rope in and get new players interested in BW...
noob calling others noobs, kek. thanks for your efforts to keep BW alive.
Come on guys is not that hard to understand. Its not that hard for me at least, let me train to explain how it works for me. When i was a D player i knew nothing about the game so when a guy who was D+ C B or A tried to teach me something I was more than happy to listen what he had to tell me. And so on. Nowadays, with that mindset I've reached the green ranks and that has been possible because I understood that I needed to listen what people who was higher rank than me had to tell, I realized that they were higher rank than me because their understanding of the game was better so when a guy with a better rank than me talks I still shut up and try to understand what they are saying and why, I don't get mad because I don't understand what they are saying. We can still argue about the way everyone express their opinions.
Please probemicro Draw has been a top foreigner player for a while now, as a player you should know who you are trying to teach. And did he really insulted sayle? I don't see where he does that, can you tell me so I can kill him?
Please probemicro Draw has been a top foreigner player for a while now, as a player you should know who you are trying to teach. And did he really insulted sayle? I don't see where he does that, can you tell me so I can kill him?
Yeah Draw the GREAT foreigner player has reached an OSL finals beating TBLS along the way to earn my utmost respect. playing top drawer games both macro and cheese to put Bisu, Stork, Free etc to utter shame. wow.
then..."HOLY FUK ITS SCAN BAN HIM" all your great foreigners shiver and cower before the mighty Scan. Scan who is basically almost a nobody in the korean scene.
And i am not teaching him anything game related, merely highlighting his hilarious egoistic attitude, commenting and judging and shitting on better players than him. just like how he accuses "D ranks" of judging and shitting on foreign players for not practicing. "I would give Jaehoon like a c/c+ rating for his performance, Hero a c-/c and the terrans failing grades... Seems like both of them couldn't follow standard build orders without any threat or pressure from the opponents, then rolled over and died."
and if you can't see where he insult sayle maybe you should read up a bit more before hastily commenting with more "D rank fuck off" comments?
Please probemicro Draw has been a top foreigner player for a while now, as a player you should know who you are trying to teach. And did he really insulted sayle? I don't see where he does that, can you tell me so I can kill him?
Yeah Draw the GREAT foreigner player has reached an OSL finals beating TBLS along the way to earn my utmost respect. playing top drawer games both macro and cheese to put Bisu, Stork, Free etc to utter shame. wow.
then..."HOLY FUK ITS SCAN BAN HIM" all your great foreigners shiver and cower before the mighty Scan. Scan who is basically almost a nobody in the korean scene.
And i am not teaching him anything game related, merely highlighting his hilarious egoistic attitude, commenting and judging and shitting on better players than him. just like how he accuses "D ranks" of judging and shitting on foreign players for not practicing. "I would give Jaehoon like a c/c+ rating for his performance, Hero a c-/c and the terrans failing grades... Seems like both of them couldn't follow standard build orders without any threat or pressure from the opponents, then rolled over and died."
and if you can't see where he insult sayle maybe you should read up a bit more before hastily commenting with more "D rank fuck off" comments?
you are totally interpreting Draw words incorrectly.and actually insulting a great player,tell me from the golden age what player actually beat BiSU Jaedong or Flash ? i bet u dont even know who,i gonna tell you. RoX.Advokate won vs Jaedong in a wcg
then you proly didnt even know that,and i actually i can tell you how this happened,Jaedong was hanging out with the russian team the night before and playing with them lot of games,so A2 in this night understood what strategy could work vs jaedong. here is the progamer leta doing a similar build to beat jaedong ,this thread is a disgrace with the author acting very inmature,like a girl when someone stoled his barbie...
On August 18 2015 11:00 dRaW wrote: I would deeply appreciate it if you guys rotated a NEW ACTIVE caster with Sayle every week and had them also cast other things. I feel like if you really want BW to grow then you need to get Sayle off the monopoly of followers. Whenever I watch L_Master or another cast (even previously in Gambit Cup, etc) they would have a third or less of the viewers that Sayle has for any particular event, maybe even a smaller portion if it was a large cup.
So now Sayle is killing foreign BW because he's the one that draws the most viewers? I don't think so. This is about people not being interested in low-level games full of very visible errors (compared to Koreans). The people you're talking about are people watching Sayle for Sayle regardless of/despite the games. He's not even casting the games on his channel. Don't get me wrong, we've seen some enjoyable games but that is what it comes down to. And I'm not saying players are somehow obliged to change that. It's just something that we'll have to learn to work with as people get older.
On the other hand, the one thing foreigner tours have going for them is people knowing the players more intimately. But if all they get to see is them flaming one another and anyone in sight, blaming anyone and anything they can think of, then go figure. When was the last tour that wasn't tainted by drama? I'm sure rus_brain can't wait to sponsor another tour seeing the reactions. He actually can't but that's because he's a crazy guy (in a very good sense). We're a community of grownups but I doubt an outsider could tell. Sure, some drama can be fun but it's only entertaining to watch Julia whine about everything for so long. We say we'll revisit things in a couple of tours and what do we get? Players storming off saying how nothing will change and how disappointed he is in the admins. And of course 50 more pages of people repeating themselves in a struggle to find new ways of insulting Scan and the organizers. How is anyone supposed to look up to people acting like that? Eon you may have not thrown those games but you said a week earlier that you'd rather just gg instead of playing Scan so wonder why your epic rush may have been misinterpreted...
I'm not putting all the blame on the players but if we had more figures like Drone, bakuryu or Zaraki then things would be easier. Of course this isn't the one problem and the ultimate solution to everything. But it's something everyone should take a moment to think about. Of course this includes us as the organizers. Some things could have been handled better. Maybe this blog also?
Personally for me, the Scan witch hunt was the most disappointing thing to witness. It's one thing to voice your opinion on the matter and another to belittle, discredit and flame another player and member of the community just because he decided to play in something he was allowed in. If that's the kind of sportsmanship you're hoping the fans will get hooked on then things probably won't be getting any better.
yeah continue to harp on your past glories or whatever. Nada and July harping on their past glories has helped them beat everyone on Fish now and reached SSL finals right? They are not stuck struggling at D/C rank at fish right??
yeah you foreigners are so damnnnnn good right? why all the Scan whine then? all those boasts and ego are for naught? muh lag, fuk admins, fuk casters? so many excuses
"I can beat top korean players 1 times out of 20 you know!! ... OMG BAN SCAN CANNOT WIN WAH"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA go and insult others more, call them noobshit,noobasik, D ranks whatever, helps your argument so much more i suppose
yeah continue to harp on your past glories or whatever. Nada and July harping on their past glories has helped them beat everyone on Fish now and reached SSL finals right? They are not stuck struggling at D/C rank at fish right??
yeah you foreigners are so damnnnnn good right? why all the Scan whine then? all those boasts and ego are for naught? muh lag, fuk admins, fuk casters? so many excuses
"I can beat top korean players 1 times out of 20 you know!! ... OMG BAN SCAN CANNOT WIN WAH"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA go and insult others more, call them noobshit,noobasik, D ranks whatever, helps your argument so much more i suppose
What are you talking about maybe take a break you are out of your mind
yeah continue to harp on your past glories or whatever. Nada and July harping on their past glories has helped them beat everyone on Fish now and reached SSL finals right? They are not stuck struggling at D/C rank at fish right??
yeah you foreigners are so damnnnnn good right? why all the Scan whine then? all those boasts and ego are for naught? muh lag, fuk admins, fuk casters? so many excuses
"I can beat top korean players 1 times out of 20 you know!! ... OMG BAN SCAN CANNOT WIN WAH"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA go and insult others more, call them noobshit,noobasik, D ranks whatever, helps your argument so much more i suppose
What are you talking about maybe take a break you are out of your mind
"omg this guy is actually right maybe I should just insult him anyway. and post a meme picture in the process. lolol"
anyway im outta here, sometimes i like the occasional shitstorms, thanks for providing it. Rejoice with the upcoming Scan ban/handicap, you all need it.
yeah continue to harp on your past glories or whatever. Nada and July harping on their past glories has helped them beat everyone on Fish now and reached SSL finals right? They are not stuck struggling at D/C rank at fish right??
yeah you foreigners are so damnnnnn good right? why all the Scan whine then? all those boasts and ego are for naught? muh lag, fuk admins, fuk casters? so many excuses
"I can beat top korean players 1 times out of 20 you know!! ... OMG BAN SCAN CANNOT WIN WAH"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA go and insult others more, call them noobshit,noobasik, D ranks whatever, helps your argument so much more i suppose
What are you talking about maybe take a break you are out of your mind
"omg this guy is actually right maybe I should just insult him anyway. and post a meme picture in the process. lolol"
anyway im outta here, sometimes i like the occasional shitstorms, thanks for providing it. Rejoice with the upcoming Scan ban/handicap, you all need it.
Plz post here where im insulting anyone Wow man you are incredible,most of us asked to LET GOSU KOREANS PLAYERS TO PLAY IN THE TOURNEY NOT JUST A F*CKING ONE TO OWN US OVER AND OVER.What are u talking about ?
Probemicro, man, wtf... You're talking to A/A+ players, they're among the best foreigners there are and will ever be in the future at this point, but of course there are many Fish players that eat ICCUP A ranks for breakfast, Scan being one of them. How is that not clear?
Alright, stepping in a bit as Probemicro was very badly interpreting people's comments and making an already tense ongoing conversation, worse.
I have been on the periphery organization-wise, but I wish people had taken a slightly longer view of things. I appreciate the measured responses of Drone- and I was going to say draw (but I'm not sure if that reply to nina was serious or sarcastic)- and others who have posted measured responses, whether they agreed or disagreed. The value of a wait and see approach, I don't think was ever fully appreciated and many intemperate responses were fired off in the very first TLC, setting the stage. A little more patience (considering there are so many TLC's planned) would have gone a long way.
Viewing from the sidelines, I think the most irritating thing for me is the pernicious attitude by players, holding TL organizers in contempt as though they are FPS gamers that intruded upon their precious BW, having never played and RTS in their life. While no doubt personally satisfying to falsely claim TL organizers have never played Starcraft, it does nothing for an argument for the exclusion of Scan.
I can understand why things are heated now as heated words beget heated words, but I don't know why it began so angrily and with such insults. (And in that vein- I wish you (xkcd) hadn't posted this blog as I don't think this helps matters- except perhaps the Drone post.) I quite frankly find the whole situation rather disheartening.
This "gotcha" post was highly inappropriate, but in the end it is proof of the attitude of the staff toward this matter, which they have been denying in the past. It's only one member coming out but it is apparent that he isn't alone based on the other posts.
Someone who is truly objective, less egotistical and more level headed would've at least talked to eon before making a "gotcha" post.
On August 18 2015 01:23 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: hmmm,hey Mr Amazingxcd i have news for you.i have contributed more for bw than you(with games,with cast,helping players,teaching them,sending replays,sharing replays,playing in many non money tournaments show matches and leagues.but actually i also sponsored by my self my team to play in teamleagues,its been me the the only one that always pay for iFU to be in the money teamleagues,oh wait also i sponsored some defiler tours,some minitours,hell i even donate for streamers... . now cuz your bw lvl is terrible that you arent abble to see a shit from what u looking in the games i gonna help you,in my series vs Scan the first game was 12h vs 9p,if you didnt know 9p is the hard counter for 12h from here everything ok right ? now if the 9p player is skiping speed and goes for lair is not hard counter but is actually game over,at the lvl we are it is,i dont know in D ranks maybe u can keep playing.
2 game:This game was a zvt i was doing 2h muta,as you see 2h muta is a build where u need to contain the terran player killing his first army very fast and keep the pressure in the game.Well it happens that the latency was so bad that my micro muta was totally off,everytime i tryed to attack the game made a lag spike and the mutalisk bug and didnt attack.They were moving like valkiries.now if u dont understand this go play 1v1 vs computers and make some valkiries and try to control it,im saying this cuz you are big ignorant in the game that is spoking himself without any knowledge.
in the third game i made a move that i tend to do very often in my stream,sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt,with the bad latency i was having in the game there was not pleasure for me to play more than necesary vs scan,i saw one opportunity i took it,it failed GG.
if i remember well Bisudagger was hosting some kind of clanwar of 3 players vs 3 players all kill style it was Cryoc Dsaqwe and me, at the end cryoc all killed all the oponents,and me and Dsaqwe didnt even ask to get that prize..
Now i dont understand how you are not still banned from this forum.i find it pathetic you insulting others players,Plz come to Trutacz Lan i will like to fix the problems with you in real ok? no forums insults is for pathetic people...
pd:dont come with you are doing alot with snipealot streams.you cant actually do a sh*t,it is alexandous the one that does everything and u need wait for him,thats why snipealots streams are now only showing Nada -_-
On the bright side, I enjoyed watching the advokate game and there were a few good posts.
You shouldn't call it a foreigner tournament hosted to help the foreigner scene and then call a foreigner greedy/unwilling to practise/selfish for wanting it to be a foreigner tournament in the first place.
Remember, the most hyprocritical thing here is the organisers making an exception a non-foreigner in for being a good buddy to the foreigners, and then talking as if the foreigners are being insubordinate and ungrateful for not being cool about that exception.
- Letting a man play in WNBA is wrong if you still want to call it WNBA, no matter how much the man has helped women basketball.
- Letting a pro compete in the NCAA is wrong if you still want to call it a college basketball tournament, no matter how much the pro has contributed to the scene.
- Using cancer donations for funding polio vaccines is wrong if you still want to advertise yourself as a cancer fund, no matter how many more utilitarian lives you think you can save with the same amount of money spent on cancer research.
I'm talking about deception.
All of it is made worse if you then call the said women, college basketball players and the cancer researchers greedy, selfish, asking them to work harder, celebrating a "gotcha" moment when the said women, college basketball players or cancer researchers made an apparent blunder. Worse of all, is the outburst and attempt at satire
"The attitude you women have disgusts me I am trying to help you." "You are making a mockery out of the NCAA" "You are killing cancer research yourself. Sickening."
Please remember, you have lost the moral high ground when you have made an exception and bent your main premise to fit that exception for, no matter the justifications.
I still believe that the staff are sincere in supporting the community, but the friendship with scan has complicated things, along with their ego.
On August 18 2015 03:33 Djzapz wrote: At the end of the day, Starcraft is entirely capable of dying out on its own and I don't think that the toxicity is coming out of no where, it has a source in the context. I for one don't believe that negativity is the cause of SCBW's decline, the causal link is the other way around. SCBW is declining naturally during the convergence of its various enemies: new OSes which don't properly support it, its fall into obsolescence in a world where simple and user friendliness becomes the norm, among other things. The toxicity is the result of this decline, and perhaps it expedites the process but it's not causing it.
There seems to be an awful lot of this sentiment around that BW is in some manner dying. This baffles me. BW is absolutely flourishing and gaining momentum since 2012. There is justification for serious concern about new blood, but for anyone that reads this forum it should be readily apparent that BW has only been growing stronger and stronger since it suffered the brutal blows of being dropped from KeSPA and Korean TV.
Now, if you want to talk about that tiny microcosm of BW that is foreign BW, there is an argument to be made that BW is dying. And to some extent that is inevitable, KR may prove to be the exception, but outside of that I cannot envision a situation in which you'll get consistent enough new faces playing BW to match the pace of those who do leave. Given the attitudes of people toward gaming nowadays, the fact that BW is an older game, the decreasing level of compatibility with new OS, I cannot see what event or change would lead to sufficient interest in playing BW amongst new players to draw them in at a rate faster than older players will leave.
On the short term, foreign BW has been more asleep than it is dead/dying. Nobody was willing to organize tours, and without that incentive many of the top guys stopped playing. If there is never a good forum for competition you lose the carrot to work hard on a game. BW may be fun to play, but to play many hours a day seriously to improve is probably not as fun; and certainly has a much greater time cost that must come from other parts of a persons life. Without any purpose or motivation to train top players naturally stopped playing, or played far, far less than they did. Now there are consistent tours with promises of a large one and you're seeing most of the strong guys coming back out to play.
Well I guess to many people stagnation is equivalent to death because either it establishes a niche which has little to no value to those outside of it, or it ends up being withered down. I remember when I watched BW and would wake up at 4AM to watch the OSL finals, now it just doesn't feel the same. I know there are people playing BW but it's not the same huge phenomenon as before, with all the hype and all the stars that I remember. I don't know if the game has been dying, to be honest I kind of drew a parallel between SC2 and BW which may have been clumsy of me.
Neither game is "dying" because software is famously incapable of death, but part of what I enjoy out of a game is the community and the excitement it draws. Can BW still get me to jump on my chair and cheer for someone like Flash? Can it still make me flip the fuck out on LR threads?
I'd like to see it... That being said, I still find BW games between people I've never heard to be more exciting than anything SC2 has to offer. I still think it's difficult for a game that's 17 years old to continue to attract enough people to build hype and have serious orgs around them. And I understand that it's "criticizeable" as a position since many purists will say you should enjoy the game for the love of the game and not for what's around it... Yet I have to say that the heart wants what the heart wants
On August 18 2015 20:58 JieXian wrote: This "gotcha" post was highly inappropriate, but in the end it is proof of the attitude of the staff toward this matter, which they have been denying in the past. It's only one member coming out but it is apparent that he isn't alone based on the other posts.
Someone who is truly objective, less egotistical and more level headed would've at least talked to eon before making a "gotcha" post.
On the bright side, I enjoyed watching the advokate game and there were a few good posts.
You shouldn't call it a foreigner tournament hosted to help the foreigner scene and then call a foreigner greedy/unwilling to practise/selfish for wanting it to be a foreigner tournament in the first place.
Remember, the most hyprocritical thing here is the organisers making an exception a non-foreigner in for being a good buddy to the foreigners, and then talking as if the foreigners are being insubordinate and ungrateful for not being cool about that exception.
- Letting a man play in WNBA is wrong if you still want to call it WNBA, no matter how much the man has helped women basketball.
- Letting a pro compete in the NCAA is wrong if you still want to call it a college basketball tournament, no matter how much the pro has contributed to the scene.
- Using cancer donations for funding polio vaccines is wrong if you still want to advertise yourself as a cancer fund, no matter how many more utilitarian lives you think you can save with the same amount of money spent on cancer research.
All of it is made worse if you then call the said women, college basketball players and the cancer researchers greedy, selfish, asking them to work harder, celebrating a "gotcha" moment when the said women, college basketball players or cancer researchers made an apparent blunder. Worse of all, is the outburst and attempt at satire
"The attitude you women have disgusts me I am trying to help you." "You are making a mockery out of the NCAA" "You are killing cancer research yourself. Sickening."
Please remember, you have lost the moral high ground when you have made an exception and bent your main premise to fit that exception for, no matter the justifications.
Your post makes me angry for two reasons.
First, I don't like how you twist Amazingxkcd's blog into something it is not. His blog does not represent the staff or the organizers but expresses his personal opinion. He even explicitly noted: "this article is the expressed opinion of Amazingxkcd only and does not constitute to be the official opinion of Teamliquid.net, its staff, or any of its constituent" Reproaches like can prevent people to express their opinions freely because people mistake their opinions for that of the whole team/organization they happen to be part of. Forums are made to discuss things.
Second, who are you to tell others they have lost moral ground? You accuse the admins to not be neutral but to be akin to favoritism. What the fk? They tried their best to have rules that do not exclude anyone who is PART OF THE FOREIGNER scene. And Scan is part of our scene.
EPT
maybe take a break you are out of your mind ![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/chat/smiles-hidden/0-pics/eon.jpg)
