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On August 18 2015 03:41 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 01:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On August 18 2015 01:39 Cele wrote:
agree with XKCD about the issue that a good amount of top players displayed a horrible attitude in casted games and forums. These players fail to understand, that a tournament is run by people, people who get satisfaction from making an awesome tournament happen.
If you treat these people bad, they won't be inclinded to organized such things, it's a simple truth. Im fine with people arguing about the scan question is a constructive, decent way. But the amount of TO bashing, random user bashing and "whats your maxrank you can't even sustain D on ICC thus you have no right to voice your opinion here" is just plain horrible and disgusting. Throwing casted games just to prove a point is the most silly thing to do in my opinion. Dont know the rest but when you are telling someone go practise to win scan he is clearly a noob,or you are talking with bakuryu that has Mind powers and can convinced you that is possible.blame my participation in TLC to bakuryu he was the one that convinced me with just one skype talk .. you can not just say everybody is noob coz he doesn't share your opinion. I know enough good players, top players, who think that Scan is TLS+TLC is beatable.
What is this? I am the highest rank thus only my opinion counts? Then let Scan decide if he can play, he has the most skill. Im very tired of this "you can't even keep D- rank on iccup" argument. It is stupid. Not playing this game as good as you doesn't mean you have the right to tell everybody to be silent.
I respect you Eon, but this argument is not good.
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On August 18 2015 03:43 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 03:41 Cele wrote:On August 18 2015 01:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On August 18 2015 01:39 Cele wrote:
agree with XKCD about the issue that a good amount of top players displayed a horrible attitude in casted games and forums. These players fail to understand, that a tournament is run by people, people who get satisfaction from making an awesome tournament happen.
If you treat these people bad, they won't be inclinded to organized such things, it's a simple truth. Im fine with people arguing about the scan question is a constructive, decent way. But the amount of TO bashing, random user bashing and "whats your maxrank you can't even sustain D on ICC thus you have no right to voice your opinion here" is just plain horrible and disgusting. Throwing casted games just to prove a point is the most silly thing to do in my opinion. Dont know the rest but when you are telling someone go practise to win scan he is clearly a noob,or you are talking with bakuryu that has Mind powers and can convinced you that is possible.blame my participation in TLC to bakuryu he was the one that convinced me with just one skype talk .. you can not just say everybody is noob coz he doesn't share your opinion. I know enough good players, top players, who think that Scan is TLS+TLC is beatable. What is this? I am the highest rank thus only my opinion counts? Then let Scan decide if he can play, he has the most skill. Im very tired of this "you can't even keep D- rank on iccup" argument. It is stupid. Not playing this game as good as you doesn't mean you have the right to tell everybody to be silent. I respect you Eon, but this argument is not good.
Actually im dont like to call others d ranks or bm if you disagree with me,im not that type of guy and u know it well cele.im just telling you that how it works,you saw trutacz reacted when someone told him go practise ?,in the few cases i know the people telling it and i know their skill i can tell you they are wrong,just read liquid`drone post plz,from someone of his manner/caliber maybe u will eat it different,idk,i u feel i offended you im sorry 
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Eon is right about that you can't just "practice harder" to beat Scan. I don't think that the amount that Scan practices is so great that that is the secret to his success. It would be easy to say "just practice harder you lazy bums," but that just doesn't reflect reality.
Scan has friends among ex-progamers, and among non-professional amateurs within the Korean scene. He can get games of course, but also he can get pointers from them, and have real experts tell him where he needs to improve. With foreigners? Koreans barely even agree to play games with us, much less help us improve. That advantage is substantial and systemic rather than just a product of work ethic.
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On August 18 2015 03:47 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 03:43 Cele wrote:On August 18 2015 03:41 Cele wrote:On August 18 2015 01:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On August 18 2015 01:39 Cele wrote:
agree with XKCD about the issue that a good amount of top players displayed a horrible attitude in casted games and forums. These players fail to understand, that a tournament is run by people, people who get satisfaction from making an awesome tournament happen.
If you treat these people bad, they won't be inclinded to organized such things, it's a simple truth. Im fine with people arguing about the scan question is a constructive, decent way. But the amount of TO bashing, random user bashing and "whats your maxrank you can't even sustain D on ICC thus you have no right to voice your opinion here" is just plain horrible and disgusting. Throwing casted games just to prove a point is the most silly thing to do in my opinion. Dont know the rest but when you are telling someone go practise to win scan he is clearly a noob,or you are talking with bakuryu that has Mind powers and can convinced you that is possible.blame my participation in TLC to bakuryu he was the one that convinced me with just one skype talk .. you can not just say everybody is noob coz he doesn't share your opinion. I know enough good players, top players, who think that Scan is TLS+TLC is beatable. What is this? I am the highest rank thus only my opinion counts? Then let Scan decide if he can play, he has the most skill. Im very tired of this "you can't even keep D- rank on iccup" argument. It is stupid. Not playing this game as good as you doesn't mean you have the right to tell everybody to be silent. I respect you Eon, but this argument is not good. Actually im dont like to call others d ranks or bm if you disagree with me,im not that type of guy and u know it well cele.im just telling you that how it works,you saw trutacz reacted when someone told him go practise ?,in the few cases i know the people telling it and i know their skill i can tell you they are wrong,just read liquid`drone post plz,from someone of his manner/caliber maybe u will eat it different,idk,i u feel i offended you im sorry
no you did not offend me. And true is, you didn't write "he is D rank" Other people did. I just wanted to say, because someone is bad in the game doesn't mean he has no idea what he talks about. And that very good players think Scan is beatable. I respect your opinion on the matter and that of ToT)Eriador aswell.
I respect all opinions that are made in a constructive manner, i just think all this drama and flame is bad for everything. It doesn't help with with good decisions and it makes everybody angry about it.
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@Cele
You do realise that since we are the better players we understand the game better and for that reason we can give you a better insight into the problems we face playing against Scan. Do you guys really think we care about the stupid 50$ and bother to write huge posts only because we are greedy assholes? Can you stop for one second and think clearly that the reason is obviously something more and it is simple - the fact that his participation is biased and unfair and it produces in-game problems that happen to favour him even more on our level of play.
@amazingxcd
I have a good question for you choosing to ignore the obvious false accusation you made towards EonZerg which was a huge mistake by you. My question facing your argument in this blog is - if half of the active community including almost all of the top foreigner players as of now continuously report the same issues with a player that obviously contradicted the rules of the cups itself(no sorry, the rules were made especially for him to participate given the current circumstances), don't you think that there must be something seriously wrong with the whole thing? Don't you think we all felt a similar feeling that something was wrong? I can assure you that the feeling has nothing to do with the prize pool since nobody here ever made or is making a living off this game, we only kept playing it throughout so many years because of the passion, fun and inner excitement it gives us. Are you really willing to defend the only south-korean in the event who lags with us, is clearly at a semi-professional level of starcraft, will always be part of the korean scene and only participated in our money events? What does that tell you about him? That he is in to show good games, knowing that he is levels above us and has no real reason to be considered a "foreigner"? Let me know if anything i wrote here isn't a fact, because i am pretty sure i've only expressed common information here.
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Netherlands5213 Posts
This thread could have been named '[TLC] TeamLiquid Legacy Cup #5' and I wouldn't have noticed any difference. 
You guys really need to stop being so uptight.
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+1 Liquid`Drone, eonzerg and zaraki
Gecko, in relation to Scan, is this a joke?
On August 18 2015 02:57 GeckoXp wrote:
Nobody stopped anyone from learning Korean or from studying something at a Korean university...
This seems as the new and funnier version of the "Go practice to win everybody at SC:BW" joke. This time it's "Go to korea, go study in a Korean university to go to practice to win everybody at SC:BW".
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On August 18 2015 04:55 Peeano wrote:This thread could have been named '[TLC] TeamLiquid Legacy Cup #5' and I wouldn't have noticed any difference.
Yeah, I just consider all these smaller threads as a one big thread in my head that just happens to change the place of its discussion pretty often
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On August 18 2015 04:58 LRM)TechnicS wrote:+1 Liquid`Drone, eonzerg and zaraki Gecko, in relation to Scan, is this a joke? Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 02:57 GeckoXp wrote:
Nobody stopped anyone from learning Korean or from studying something at a Korean university... This seems as the new and funnier version of the "Go practice to win everybody at SC:BW" joke. This time it's "Go to korea, go study in a Korean university to go to practice to win everybody at SC:BW".
I don't consider his nationality the ultimative key to his improvement. As stated before, he improved the most when he wasn't in Korea, but playing with the Chinese from the States. There's not much of an edge he had there in comparison to other players. In my opinion it was his dedication in combination with the effort he spent on Brood War. He might've had the advantage of only having to study besides gaming, but that's about it. I get that speaking with other (semi professional) Koreans might have helped, but most of what he did came from his training schedule - which isn't really related to him speaking Korean. Maybe you get me wrong, I'm referring to what he did in between "Sziky could beat him regularly" to today. I'm not argueing that he's so far ahead by now that it's basically impossible to really expect any foreigner to close the gap.
on a more serious topic
Yes, but you don't dare to train. Because you're not cool anymore. It's like you have given up on the idea you could beat Germany in a nation war. That's why you ignore Wallace's requests to field a team and face us. SCHLAND PREVAILS ONCE MORE.
btw your signature still says enjoy the game. so let's do that and agree to disagree, it's not like it matters anymore. seriously, please let's arrange some fun wars, even if you play from an iPad and with a 600 ms delay and offrace or some shit.
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On August 18 2015 05:07 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 04:58 LRM)TechnicS wrote:+1 Liquid`Drone, eonzerg and zaraki Gecko, in relation to Scan, is this a joke? On August 18 2015 02:57 GeckoXp wrote:
Nobody stopped anyone from learning Korean or from studying something at a Korean university... This seems as the new and funnier version of the "Go practice to win everybody at SC:BW" joke. This time it's "Go to korea, go study in a Korean university to go to practice to win everybody at SC:BW".
I don't consider his nationality the ultimative key to his improvement. As stated before, he improved the most when he wasn't in Korea, but playing with the Chinese from the States. There's not much of an edge he had there in comparison to other players. In my opinion it was his dedication in combination with the effort he spent on Brood War. He might've had the advantage of only having to study besides gaming, but that's about it. I get that speaking with other (semi professional) Koreans might have helped, but most of what he did came from his training schedule - which isn't really related to him speaking Korean. Maybe you get me wrong, I'm referring to what he did in between "Sziky could beat him regularly" to today. I'm not argueing that he's so far ahead by now that it's basically impossible to really expect any foreigner to close the gap. on a more serious topic Yes, but you don't dare to train. Because you're not cool anymore. It's like you have given up on the idea you could beat Germany in a nation war. That's why you ignore Wallace's requests to field a team and face us. SCHLAND PREVAILS ONCE MORE.btw your signature still says enjoy the game. so let's do that and agree to disagree, it's not like it matters anymore. seriously, please let's arrange some fun wars, even if you play from an iPad and with a 600 ms delay and offrace or some shit.
but we no players T.T
not to derail: the blogpost is so wrong on so many levels in my opinion that I am really not willing to be replying as thoroughly here
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You know what? There are a few things to consider here:
The staff said that Chinese and Korean players who were active in the "foreign scene" could participate, and I will respect that decision. Scan, so far, has participated in both TSLs, the first ISL, several million Defiler.ru tours, has put his stream on TL, has made a strategy section thread, has done countless 2v2 things on iccup with foreigners like Nizzy, Belladona, etc., was still playing iCCup when almost every other Korean decided to leave, talks with foreigners on Skype in Skype groups, has done interviews in English (not translated) for English-speaking people, and if there's more I'm leaving out, then please - by all means, throw it into the pot.
Next, if Scan was completely barred tomorrow for some unknown reason, like maybe his cat died and he was in mourning for several years, you still have the next bonjwa, Sziky, looming overhead. Sziky is like the new Mondragon. He will win nearly every tournament he participates in, and he's not even from one of those azn countries! + Show Spoiler [fluidrone spoiler] +Although the Mongol Empire did reach as far as the Magyar Kingdom, so there might be some azn blood running through his veins
Scan is not a "progamer" and does not play 24/7. He has beaten some good players on Fish. But also consider that LancerX beat sSak, or that dRaW beat TerrOr[fOu]. Was it luck? Probably not. Lancer and Draw were both playing a lot when they did this, and Scan has been playing quite a bit for awhile now, so when people go "Oh, he's playing versus pros" I would say... yeah, he is. But he's also paid his dues, getting beaten down a lot in 2008-2009 tournaments. I don't know if I've ever told this story on Teamliquid, but there was a US EAST clan called "eX_" and one of the guys from the clan sponsored weekly tournaments before he went into the army. If you were in the clan, you would win double the money for first place. I remember that Scan was in it as "eX_LastScan", there was also OctZerg, Yan, Daren[Shield], Draw, Game, and a whole slew of other US East and some US West players. There was also ToT)Yosh(, who came on East, registered with the clan as "eX_Yosh" and won every single eX tournament he was in. The interesting thing was that Scan would beat everyone except for Yosh. Every week, there would be these really epic Yosh vs Scan finals (I wish I had the replays because these were some fucking awesome games) and they were probably some of the most entertaining TvT games I've ever seen. But Yosh won not only every series, but also, almost every game they played, period. I even started joking that Yosh was a school bully who was taking Scan's lunch-money.
The point of that story isn't to try and embarrass Scan or anything. I'm just saying that there was a time when he was getting beaten a lot but didn't give up. But yes, he's probably going to win every TLC. It will likely take years before anyone else can catch up to him and beat him. I think Sziky can win a series versus Scan, but I don't think he wants to put in the work to do it.
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I agree with amazing (personally I started secrely training bw as soon as i heard that this tournament started... not like anyone would even notice if it was not secret, but it felt better anyway).
I dont know about eonzerg there, so on that, no comment.
What I totally disagree is with Drones claim on beating scan.
Not only is it possible, its actually rather easy if commitment is given to real practice.
Ive always been a mediocre player (never put too much effort in the game, highest rank was B- 2on2), yet ive won vs many big names with he right preparation (Draco, nada, yellow, mondragon, incontrol, breakdown, gentleman, Fenix).
All those dropped series against me with less than 1 week preparation for either a sparing game or actual clan war.
I agree that the skill has increased madly in the time that went from that time, in fish I went 2-15 when I thought I was doing "ok" so... yeah nice way to bring me back to reality.
My training goal was actually to beat scan, but i noticed its going too slow, probably due to my old age (31), and bad habits from a long time playing the game the wrong way.
Now as for Eonzerg's post.... There are two things I was wondering.
First, Even if amazing is totally off track here, I think you could put it in other words to make it less controversial (I know its not something easy to do, but still).,
Second, there were a few things I was unsure about in the games you played (correlating to your post and explanation).
9 pool is a hard counter to 12 hatch, but I was wondering if its not salvagable still.
If you make a sunken at your main, you can go for a ling all-in for example forcing perhaps sunkens to get ahead in eco?
I mean... its scan so its not like he is going to screw up... but it was a 1 hatch muta after all, hell, ive seen games where 4 lings won vs 1 muta (both z with no drones).
Second game I saw nothing weird. Since I was not playing it, I dont know how mutas were moving obviously, but the game did not look to me like a throw away... except those lings at start on the bunker and marines.... that I did not understand at all.
Third game I thought you misstimed the drone drill, but I found it odd that you would go for that if you did not know the timing. Still, something that can happen.
Im not trying to take sides here, just put my thoughts on the post and the games, but please do not treat this post as me thinking I know better than anyone else, we got enought KnowItAlls (thats true for every game, not just broodwar thou. I think its the internets charm).
Oh and yeah, I think Scan should be allowed to play even if he wins every tournament. The guy sure puts a lot of personal work in the foreign scene as ninazerg smartly pointed out.
I dont know on the lag... Cant comment there.
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On August 18 2015 01:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i never throwed a game in my life in purpose,when im in the game i play to win,i feel good winning,lossing sux,im so angry after my loss but keep fighting wathever,the guy you are defending he throwed games for money,he was banned from TSL. ironic right ? ^^
Im lucky in this regard. I loose so much that it does not bother me anymore, and winning still feels great :D.
BTW, wouldent lag be fixed if the games of scan are played over hamachi? Random thought.
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On August 18 2015 05:45 LRM)TechnicS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 05:07 GeckoXp wrote:On August 18 2015 04:58 LRM)TechnicS wrote:+1 Liquid`Drone, eonzerg and zaraki Gecko, in relation to Scan, is this a joke? On August 18 2015 02:57 GeckoXp wrote:
Nobody stopped anyone from learning Korean or from studying something at a Korean university... This seems as the new and funnier version of the "Go practice to win everybody at SC:BW" joke. This time it's "Go to korea, go study in a Korean university to go to practice to win everybody at SC:BW".
I don't consider his nationality the ultimative key to his improvement. As stated before, he improved the most when he wasn't in Korea, but playing with the Chinese from the States. There's not much of an edge he had there in comparison to other players. In my opinion it was his dedication in combination with the effort he spent on Brood War. He might've had the advantage of only having to study besides gaming, but that's about it. I get that speaking with other (semi professional) Koreans might have helped, but most of what he did came from his training schedule - which isn't really related to him speaking Korean. Maybe you get me wrong, I'm referring to what he did in between "Sziky could beat him regularly" to today. I'm not argueing that he's so far ahead by now that it's basically impossible to really expect any foreigner to close the gap. on a more serious topic Yes, but you don't dare to train. Because you're not cool anymore. It's like you have given up on the idea you could beat Germany in a nation war. That's why you ignore Wallace's requests to field a team and face us. SCHLAND PREVAILS ONCE MORE.btw your signature still says enjoy the game. so let's do that and agree to disagree, it's not like it matters anymore. seriously, please let's arrange some fun wars, even if you play from an iPad and with a 600 ms delay and offrace or some shit. but we no players T.T not to derail: the blogpost is so wrong on so many levels in my opinion that I am really not willing to be replying as thoroughly here
uuuuuh
so let me get this straight: first you didn't lure artanis in a dark ally, you then didn't drug him and sacrifice him to our dark lord jaedong? and now this? i am disappoint. i expected more of you and wallace. so much more.
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Nina, Scan is perfectly fit for playing in the cups as long as all koreans are allowed to play imo. But certainly not for a foreigner tournament that mentions the word foreign/foreigner in every second sentence.
Rewatch Wallace's art and enjoy the day/night ahead. In my eyes opening a thread, angling foreigner competition/money and reviewing a translation does not make him that worthy of a contributor to receive such a privillege. I agree though the 2v2 iccup laddering might be considered correctly as a significant contribution but who knows. If we could find 20+ 2v2 players openly stating that without his focused help they would be far worse in 2v2 then i will be interested in a discussion.
Probably the very first thing i said in the very first post of mine on the issue was related to lag. Three cups later the privilliged korean supposed contributor lectured just about every foreigner that dared to speak about lag vs him, with a very specific tone that i could not qualify as mannered, describing players as unwilling to pay low monthly fees for internet or describing whole nations as undeveloped. How do you feel about that?
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So I guess we can subtlety insult people with a whole thread now...
@Gecko, I understand where you are coming from. He trained hard, he did have a clear advantage that he capitalized on but deserved his skill.
@Technics, I guess unless you are playing you have made your point. People don't really consider seasoned players' knowledge these days. I am hoping despite this that you will return because I need to play you again and I will have my PC ready soon.
@Nina, you are wrong. Scan will win 98%+ TvZ BoX vs Sziky for cash. (I can count the TvZ he lost to him in defiler tour on 1 hand)
@Noobs, Why so opinionated without knowledge? Go train BW until the TLS next January and say the same things please. Better yet, compete and show me your knowledge.
@Eon, we need to do a cast again real soon. We will be new Sayle :must1:
@TL Organizers, sorry on behalf of all retards. Life is tough, nobody can ever win. We all realize you were trying to do a good thing, but please don't say just go train and beat Scan. It's insulting, especially for the effort/time it will take. Very unrealistic. If someone manages to beat him, it will be very epic but don't bank on these stories of 'omg someone finally beat him SO AMAZING' because it really isn't if it's one win out of 200 games.
Also, I know that nobody really reads these posts and everyone just waits their turn to write something nonsensical but I would deeply appreciate it if you guys rotated a NEW ACTIVE caster with Sayle every week and had them also cast other things. I feel like if you really want BW to grow then you need to get Sayle off the monopoly of followers. Whenever I watch L_Master or another cast (even previously in Gambit Cup, etc) they would have a third or less of the viewers that Sayle has for any particular event, maybe even a smaller portion if it was a large cup.
Maybe talk with ICCup.Face as he organizes the A/B tours and showmatches with casters and it could be good for them.
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Bisutopia19305 Posts
On August 18 2015 11:00 dRaW wrote:
So I guess we can subtlety insult people with a whole thread now...
@Gecko, I understand where you are coming from. He trained hard, he did have a clear advantage that he capitalized on but deserved his skill.
@Technics, I guess unless you are playing you have made your point. People don't really consider seasoned players' knowledge these days. I am hoping despite this that you will return because I need to play you again and I will have my PC ready soon.
@Nina, you are wrong. Scan will win 98%+ TvZ BoX vs Sziky for cash. (I can count the TvZ he lost to him in defiler tour on 1 hand)
@Noobs, Why so opinionated without knowledge? Go train BW until the TLS next January and say the same things please. Better yet, compete and show me your knowledge.
@Eon, we need to do a cast again real soon. We will be new Sayle :must1:
@TL Organizers, sorry on behalf of all retards. Life is tough, nobody can ever win. We all realize you were trying to do a good thing, but please don't say just go train and beat Scan. It's insulting, especially for the effort/time it will take. Very unrealistic. If someone manages to beat him, it will be very epic but don't bank on these stories of 'omg someone finally beat him SO AMAZING' because it really isn't if it's one win out of 200 games.
Also, I know that nobody really reads these posts and everyone just waits their turn to write something nonsensical but I would deeply appreciate it if you guys rotated a NEW ACTIVE caster with Sayle every week and had them also cast other things. I feel like if you really want BW to grow then you need to get Sayle off the monopoly of followers. Whenever I watch L_Master or another cast (even previously in Gambit Cup, etc) they would have a third or less of the viewers that Sayle has for any particular event, maybe even a smaller portion if it was a large cup.
Maybe talk with ICCup.Face as he organizes the A/B tours and showmatches with casters and it could be good for them.
As far as casting, even without the personal family issues that has kept me away, the casting time is in the middle of a Saturday for the US which is an always busy time. Sayle is fortunate to be in a timezone where he can manage to cast the majority of these. Just saying the times are probably hard for most wanting and equipped to cast.
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On August 18 2015 11:00 dRaW wrote:
Also, I know that nobody really reads these posts and everyone just waits their turn to write something nonsensical but I would deeply appreciate it if you guys rotated a NEW ACTIVE caster with Sayle every week and had them also cast other things. I feel like if you really want BW to grow then you need to get Sayle off the monopoly of followers. Whenever I watch L_Master or another cast (even previously in Gambit Cup, etc) they would have a third or less of the viewers that Sayle has for any particular event, maybe even a smaller portion if it was a large cup.
Maybe talk with ICCup.Face as he organizes the A/B tours and showmatches with casters and it could be good for them.
This is a pretty fair point.
I think understanding the reason for that is important, and I believe the primary reason is twitch followings. Sayle has over 3k followers. I've got 250. Despite this difference, Sayle only gets between 2-4x the viewer numbers I typically did despite having well over 12x the subs.
I suspect this means that most serious BW players are watching whoever casts with most of the other views coming from Sayle's followers dropping by.
So the question that really needs to be asked is why does Sayle have so many viewers? For sure he is a very good caster, who has spent more total time casting than me, which many more major events. However, I honestly don't think there are anywhere near 3k BW players in the foreign scene, let alone watching Sayle. If I recall he also did a bunch of casting during hybrid PL which drew HUGE interest from the SC2 crowd at the time. Sayle being both am excellent caster and a likable guy probably got a ton of subs during this period.
My suspicion is that Sayle's massive difference in viewer counts is largely a result of SC2 guys who got exposed to Sayle and enjoyed his casting enough to watch from time to time. If correct, this means that the typical number of BW fans that are going to watch any event is in the 100-500 range depending on exactly what the event is. The larger numbers seen on Sayle streams are non BW players who watch Sayle because they are subbed and decide to tune in on twitch.
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On August 18 2015 13:59 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2015 11:00 dRaW wrote:
Also, I know that nobody really reads these posts and everyone just waits their turn to write something nonsensical but I would deeply appreciate it if you guys rotated a NEW ACTIVE caster with Sayle every week and had them also cast other things. I feel like if you really want BW to grow then you need to get Sayle off the monopoly of followers. Whenever I watch L_Master or another cast (even previously in Gambit Cup, etc) they would have a third or less of the viewers that Sayle has for any particular event, maybe even a smaller portion if it was a large cup.
Maybe talk with ICCup.Face as he organizes the A/B tours and showmatches with casters and it could be good for them. This is a pretty fair point. I think understanding the reason for that is important, and I believe the primary reason is twitch followings. Sayle has over 3k followers. I've got 250. Despite this difference, Sayle only gets between 2-4x the viewer numbers I typically did despite having well over 12x the subs. I suspect this means that most serious BW players are watching whoever casts with most of the other views coming from Sayle's followers dropping by. So the question that really needs to be asked is why does Sayle have so many viewers? For sure he is a very good caster, who has spent more total time casting than me, which many more major events. However, I honestly don't think there are anywhere near 3k BW players in the foreign scene, let alone watching Sayle. If I recall he also did a bunch of casting during hybrid PL which drew HUGE interest from the SC2 crowd at the time. Sayle being both am excellent caster and a likable guy probably got a ton of subs during this period. My suspicion is that Sayle's massive difference in viewer counts is largely a result of SC2 guys who got exposed to Sayle and enjoyed his casting enough to watch from time to time. If correct, this means that the typical number of BW fans that are going to watch any event is in the 100-500 range depending on exactly what the event is. The larger numbers seen on Sayle streams are non BW players who watch Sayle because they are subbed and decide to tune in on twitch.
I think that Sayle has just earned a more solid reputation because he's been a more consistent long-term caster than anyone else. I honestly have a hard time saying who would be the #2 best caster because everyone else is rather erratic and generally not a solo caster, usually just a copilot to Sayle at big events. On the other hand, in the old BW era, I could name many casters of decent repute who I would watch.
I also remember when Sayle was a pretty obscure and irrelevant caster and I saw him for the first time. Wasn't too impressed, but he got better and casted very consistently. That's what everyone else is lacking, at least from my perspective.
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EPT
