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On March 31 2015 07:39 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 07:19 Penev wrote:On March 31 2015 07:15 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 06:14 Penev wrote:On March 30 2015 22:06 Penev wrote:For people thinking KeSPA shouldn't make a statement: 1. They already did on an earlier voided bet, saying, in fact, that they were investigating. 2. Every responsible governing body normally does give the basically mandatory statement if asked to do so. They usually do not give no statement AT ALL. On March 30 2015 22:02 DJHelium wrote:
That's very reassuring, thanks DJ and MVP! Did they really say anything about the first voided bet? I thought they said nothing and only released a statement about the Olimoley scandal (which was also kind of a weak response)? They gave a statement to Lichter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/476217-exclusive-pinnacle-interview-on-san-dark?page=7#134On January 27 2015 13:40 lichter wrote:
Let's not rush to conclusions.
KeSPA are waiting on Pinnacle to provide them with data and information. KeSPA are aware of what happened and are looking into it. They don't want to make an announcement until they have enough information to make a meaningful one. That's as much as I can say.
Just because they haven't announced to the public that something is being done doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Was that credible? Its been over 2 months since that "statement". Meanwhile San played 2 matches last night in PL. Did they cleared him? Why would they let him play if they were seriously investigating? They've still said nothing, and San is still doing ACE matches. People are making a lot of money fixing matches and they don't want it to stop. Hope is not going to stop it. It's enabling it. I don't know why are you arguing this with me? I don't know that I'm arguing. You described that post Lichter made, into "Kespa gave a statement" Lichter never said they gave a statement, he just stated that they were investigating. How he knows is unclear, but Kespa gave no official statement. Perhaps its a minor point, but I don't think Kespa inaction should be mitigated. Their inaction is the elephant in the room.
If you would've read my previous posts you'd know that I'm not at all disagreeing. The post you responded to initially even starts with "For people thinking KeSPA shouldn't make a statement"
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Haha I think I will have answers when my interest for this has completely died off. Mah, just as well...
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Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not.
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On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not.
If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting?
I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this.
I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes.
Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year.
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United States711 Posts
On March 31 2015 11:02 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not. If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting? I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this. I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes. Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year.
You just like to go for the far fetched scenarios, huh?
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On March 31 2015 11:17 Grizvok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 11:02 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not. If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting? I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this. I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes. Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year. You just like to go for the far fetched scenarios, huh?
If you believe matchfixing is going on, how do you explain the inaction to even address it?
To me thats a smoking gun. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I have never in my life seen an organization just run and hide from being publicly called out as a fraud. Pinnacle issued a press release, literally saying the game was not played on a fair basis.
The day after San vs Dark, if you had told me there would be no response at all, I would have though that was far fetched.
Once they went into cover up mode, something was obviously up, and I think its far bigger than a player and a couple gambling buddies deciding to throw a game.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 31 2015 11:32 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 11:17 Grizvok wrote:On March 31 2015 11:02 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not. If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting? I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this. I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes. Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year. You just like to go for the far fetched scenarios, huh? If you believe matchfixing is going on, how do you explain the inaction to even address it? To me thats a smoking gun. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I have never in my life seen an organization just run and hide from being publicly called out as a fraud.
I may be confused about what you're saying but haven't you ever heard the old communications saying "let's have a pint and wait for this whole thing to blow over"?
If the evidence is not 100% definite, you can try to save face by denying anything happened and hope it does blow over. If it doesn't, it causes more damage, but if it does, you're better off than if you admitted to anything in the first place.
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On March 31 2015 11:45 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 11:32 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 11:17 Grizvok wrote:On March 31 2015 11:02 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not. If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting? I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this. I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes. Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year. You just like to go for the far fetched scenarios, huh? If you believe matchfixing is going on, how do you explain the inaction to even address it? To me thats a smoking gun. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I have never in my life seen an organization just run and hide from being publicly called out as a fraud. I may be confused about what you're saying but haven't you ever heard the old communications saying "let's have a pint and wait for this whole thing to blow over"? If the evidence is not 100% definite, you can try to save face by denying anything happened and hope it does blow over. If it doesn't, it causes more damage, but if it does, you're better off than if you admitted to anything in the first place.
I just don't see that motivation as being realistic.
Lets assume match fixing is going on.
If you are running a Korean SC2 team or league and you are NOT a part of the match fixing, then obviously, this is horrible news. People are ruining the sport and are going to kill your livelyhood. What do you do?
You can't just hope it goes away, the players that you pay are supplementing their incomes while ruining your business. Why would they stop, nothing is stopping them from doing it again.
Its like catching an employee stealing from you. Do you just let him get away with it because you don't want to admit you hired a crook?
Now... think about what you would do IF you were also profiting from the matchfixing? If you were, then I think keep quiet and hope it goes away makes sense. If match fixing is prevalent, maybe everyone is remaining quiet and hoping someone else takes the fall first.
That seems far more plausible than innocent people being unwilling to stand up for their reputations.
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United States711 Posts
On March 31 2015 11:32 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 11:17 Grizvok wrote:On March 31 2015 11:02 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not. If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting? I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this. I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes. Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year. You just like to go for the far fetched scenarios, huh? If you believe matchfixing is going on, how do you explain the inaction to even address it? To me thats a smoking gun. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I have never in my life seen an organization just run and hide from being publicly called out as a fraud. Pinnacle issued a press release, literally saying the game was not played on a fair basis. The day after San vs Dark, if you had told me there would be no response at all, I would have though that was far fetched. Once they went into cover up mode, something was obviously up, and I think its far bigger than a player and a couple gambling buddies deciding to throw a game.
Nobody is calling Kespa a fraud besides you. Not really sure where you got that from or how you construed that from anything said in this thread. People are calling on them to investigate this with any and all resources available to them not to publicly announce they are in on the whole thing.
Now I'm not saying these things you mention aren't possible. Perhaps specific teams are in on it. Perhaps kespa is in on the whole thing as you are apparently suggesting. But as Swoopae showed us so eloquently in numbers regarding probability let us think of the probability of all of these scenarios you are painting. What is more likely, that there is a group of illegal bettors out there who consistently and doggedly attempt to solicit match fixing opportunities to young adults trying to make ends meet who generally do not have other avenues of revenue, and who are financially dependent on their ability to play and succeed at Starcraft. Or that this entire organization is in on the whole thing?
I'm not sure who you were at 18 years old, but I was already staying on my own paying rent, utilities, etc making major life decisions on my own and generally caring for myself and being self-sufficient. To think an individual at 18 couldn't make the misguided decision on their own after being solicited to do so to take part in a fixed match for large sums of money is absurd.
Now I do agree that it is weird that Kespa has not came out and made a statement. I think it is really weird in fact. In no way should a professional organization behave the way they have and it is disconcerting but I'm more inclined to think as others do and that they are simply hoping this either blows over or they are investigating without raising some type of flag (though I still have no idea why you wouldn't say something.) My fear is that they are doing nothing because they know any investigation will hurt the scene dramatically...which is probably true.
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On March 31 2015 12:08 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 11:45 Djzapz wrote:On March 31 2015 11:32 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 11:17 Grizvok wrote:On March 31 2015 11:02 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not. If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting? I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this. I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes. Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year. You just like to go for the far fetched scenarios, huh? If you believe matchfixing is going on, how do you explain the inaction to even address it? To me thats a smoking gun. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I have never in my life seen an organization just run and hide from being publicly called out as a fraud. I may be confused about what you're saying but haven't you ever heard the old communications saying "let's have a pint and wait for this whole thing to blow over"? If the evidence is not 100% definite, you can try to save face by denying anything happened and hope it does blow over. If it doesn't, it causes more damage, but if it does, you're better off than if you admitted to anything in the first place. Its like catching an employee stealing from you. Do you just let him get away with it because you don't want to admit you hired a crook?
If you're going to make that analogy at least make it accurate. If you admit you hired a crook you risk losing your whole business. Do you still do it? Or pretend nothing happened and focus on stopping further offenses?
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I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that it looks extremely likely that there was foul play involved, or people (probably unintentionally) demeaning MKP's status as a progamer (that gets paid to play) by suggesting that he is allowed/liable to make decisions that even a silver ranked player would be embarrassed to make, just for the sake of defending him.
Sure, it's up to Kespa to decide if he's guilty or not, but geez, it looks really bad from the video's POV.
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This would be a perfect day for any involved party to make a big statement. Ehehe
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I posted basically the same thing in another thread like this.
To those of you who think betting lines that suspicious are NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
Please I pray to god you are never on a jury because you have no ability to assess evidence. Sure its not a smoking gun, but it is STRONG evidence. Lines moving that much, the most reasonable explanation is that someone knows the fix is in.
Then we have the game itself. Well when you have one piece of strong evidence, then THAT game, which itself would imo, be almost a smoking gun, in fact close to DNA evidence on the murder weapon, then we have a cast iron certainty. This game was fixed. The probability of that? Honestly its 99.9999% or something. But the way people act they seem to think its like a 50/50 or something. Because they jump through insane mental loops to try to convince themselves that each piece of evidence is not that strong in itself.
But its no surprise really a lot of people on this site are:
1. Very young
2. Not versed in mathematics
3. No idea about betting, how it works anything like that
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On March 31 2015 11:32 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2015 11:17 Grizvok wrote:On March 31 2015 11:02 dsousa wrote:On March 31 2015 10:19 Clonester wrote:
Maybe it will go exactly like 5 years ago:
Rumors spread, with a large potion of disbelieve.
Rekrul makes a post about it
Rekrul makes a blog entry
Evidence may be found somewhere and made official by passionated Starcraft fans
BBC makes a news.
When nothing cant be denied anymore and cant keep away from public, KESPA takes actions.
There is no way this ongoing matchfixing will be made public by KESPA in the first place, that KESPA will finish a possible investigation with a publishing of the evidence they found. They will stay aslong quiet as they can, best, till no one cares about SC II anyway anymore.
The match fixing system works: Players with not enough income (and maybe skill for the big shots) can increase their income tremendous by losing (what is the thing most people expect from then anyway) while KESPA has to fear a public acknowledgment of match fixing could end SC II in korea for ever and so their brands pro League and Star League. Maybe even KESPA sponsors could leave the board of esport forever, it is in SC II, it could be in League too (up to another scale)?
So KESPA keeps quiet, B-Teamers get dirty betting money and the world is again saved from the evil.
Or not. If this were true, Kespa could at the very least cut those players. Why would they let the players harm their business without Kespa also profiting? I just don't think 18 year old gamers are the driving force behind this. I agree matchfixing is a great income supplement for a struggling industry, which is why I think it makes sense this is institutionalized and not player driven. Management needs to supplment their income too and they need to make some money before SC2 implodes. Besides, hasn't the management scene in Korea changed over the past year. Mr. Chae and the original people that were part of the 2011 GSL all left SC2 in the past year. You just like to go for the far fetched scenarios, huh? If you believe matchfixing is going on, how do you explain the inaction to even address it? To me thats a smoking gun. Maybe its a cultural thing, but I have never in my life seen an organization just run and hide from being publicly called out as a fraud. Pinnacle issued a press release, literally saying the game was not played on a fair basis. The day after San vs Dark, if you had told me there would be no response at all, I would have though that was far fetched. Once they went into cover up mode, something was obviously up, and I think its far bigger than a player and a couple gambling buddies deciding to throw a game. User was temp banned for this post.
A smoking gun is that Kespa do nothing when its in their interest to pretend it doesn't exist? What about Cycling when Lance Armstrong was winning TDF? He must be clean because they would have done something right? Your logic is nonsensical.
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On March 30 2015 21:16 Apoteosis wrote:
No action should be taken unless MK (or others) is proven guilty of charges in an open trial formed with impartial judges.
Simple law.
Everything else is just people freaking out and pitchforkers who went hysterical.
He would be found guilty 100%. Real life match fixers have been convicted on way less evidence than this.
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On March 29 2015 13:44 Swoopae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2015 18:27 OtherWorld wrote:
^Since I have no idea how betting sites works, who are the "traders"?
And I believe that TerrOr is on your list too, ByuL vs TerrOr R2 A Trader is a professional expert who is hired to analyse a sport by a sportsbook and set accurate betting lines when the lines are released, then set how far the odds are adjusted by each bet made. I believe Darkforce the former progamer is one of their team of Esports traders (they have a whole team dedicated to each sport). http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2plcj7/ama_former_sc2_pro_darkforce_now_lead_esports/Terror vs Byul is more under suspicion for being used by match fixers to throw Pinnacle's team off their trail than the match itself being thrown, as it's the only match to date with unusual line movement where the player who had more money bet on them lost. Naniwa's tweet is obviously trolling about swarmhosts being OP Still no statement from Kespa or MVP is frustrating, hopefully we get one soon Also to the guy who said ban MKP as a deterrent, that's ridiculous, not even i'm calling for punishment without a proper investigation, but if he's found guilty over the course of a proper investigation through official channels then of course he should be banned from esports.
He should probably be convicted and spend some time in jail. Not joking either.
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On April 02 2015 08:35 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
I posted basically the same thing in another thread like this.
To those of you who think betting lines that suspicious are NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
Please I pray to god you are never on a jury because you have no ability to assess evidence. Sure its not a smoking gun, but it is STRONG evidence. Lines moving that much, the most reasonable explanation is that someone knows the fix is in.
Then we have the game itself. Well when you have one piece of strong evidence, then THAT game, which itself would imo, be almost a smoking gun, in fact close to DNA evidence on the murder weapon, then we have a cast iron certainty. This game was fixed. The probability of that? Honestly its 99.9999% or something. But the way people act they seem to think its like a 50/50 or something. Because they jump through insane mental loops to try to convince themselves that each piece of evidence is not that strong in itself.
But its no surprise really a lot of people on this site are:
1. Very young
2. Not versed in mathematics
3. No idea about betting, how it works anything like that
Haha, what?
So you believe that it's explicitly "99.9999%" "probability" of the game being fixed and then you go on to say that TL users are not well versed in mathematics?
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On April 02 2015 08:42 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2015 08:35 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
I posted basically the same thing in another thread like this.
To those of you who think betting lines that suspicious are NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
Please I pray to god you are never on a jury because you have no ability to assess evidence. Sure its not a smoking gun, but it is STRONG evidence. Lines moving that much, the most reasonable explanation is that someone knows the fix is in.
Then we have the game itself. Well when you have one piece of strong evidence, then THAT game, which itself would imo, be almost a smoking gun, in fact close to DNA evidence on the murder weapon, then we have a cast iron certainty. This game was fixed. The probability of that? Honestly its 99.9999% or something. But the way people act they seem to think its like a 50/50 or something. Because they jump through insane mental loops to try to convince themselves that each piece of evidence is not that strong in itself.
But its no surprise really a lot of people on this site are:
1. Very young
2. Not versed in mathematics
3. No idea about betting, how it works anything like that Haha, what? So you believe that it's explicitly "99.9999%" "probability" of the game being fixed and then you go on to say that TL users are not well versed in mathematics?
Haha I found that funny too. Well maybe he included himself in "a lot of people on this site". Maybe it's like literally 99.99999% of users, so nobody's safe, you know.
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We are all the 99.99999% 
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It's not cheating, MarineKing is just very really bad.
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EPT
