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WGT-Baal
France3293 Posts
I hope the murderers will be found and tried (but not killed! it d be very very bad). Of course my condoleances to the families of the victims but I d also like to say that this is an cruel act from a couple people and I really hope the minorities in France will not have to bear the brunt of the consequences | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:34 Biff The Understudy wrote: Except those people were French citizen, born in France, genius. They were not infiltrated members of Kim Jong Il secret services of henchmen of Bin Laden on a secret mission disguised as refugees. I mean seriously... Maybe citizenship is given too lightly then. | ||
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Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
"The last joke was on us." | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:34 Biff The Understudy wrote: Except those people were French citizen, born in France, genius. They were not infiltrated members of Kim Jong Il secret services of henchmen of Bin Laden on a secret mission disguised as refugees. I mean seriously... Which means absolutely nothing in the larger picture. Allegedly they said: "Tell the media this was al-Qaeda in Yemen." Is Yemen in France? I'm not saying they went to Yemen. I'm saying that these aren't lone wolves who trained and equipped themselves and planned the attack without help from anyone else. Borders don't mean anything in this context. People helped them, both inside and outside of France. Some of them probably shouldn't be in France but are anyway. And even if all of that isn't true, you know as well as I do that there are people in France who shouldn't be there organizing hate and inciting violence and preparing to help violence occur, and the reason they are in France is someone allowed them to come in and someone allows them to stay there. I mean seriously... talk about missing the forest for the trees. Go tell your government your conclusion that since these were French citizens born in France, it's pointless and stupid to worry about security concerns with immigration and refugees. I don't think they'll listen. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22394 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:45 Millitron wrote: Maybe citizenship is given too lightly then. Yeah it should take a lot more than being born in the country? | ||
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6262 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:27 Faefae wrote: Wtf i though the same... How could you lose an ID card as the only way to track you?? Why would somebody carry an id with them while in full body armor and wearing a ski mask? It makes no sense.... | ||
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r00ty
Germany1022 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:23 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: some drawings by newspapers-cartoonists as reaction: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2rmzlg/german_satirical_magazine_titanic_if_you_shoot_at/cnhes6p I'm proud. I consider myself a lefty and hate on xenophobes hard, imho everyone in danger in their own country is welcome to come here, as long as we can take it, even if we have to make some sacrifices. I'm also still a little bit sorry for all the normal muslims getting offended, but: FREEDOM OF SPEECH and SECULARITY! Our ancestors fought hard for this. We will not give this up. Can you accept it? If not you're in the wrong fucking place. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:43 SoSexy wrote: Do u guys have a stream where they show footage of the ongoing operation? you need helmet cameras etc as well? Just check the RAID homepage, I'm sure they are livestreaming it | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7792 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:45 Millitron wrote: Maybe citizenship is given too lightly then. I don't know the itinerary of those guys but it's more than likely they were born French. To whom has it been given too lightly? To the new born? Or their parents, one or two generations ago? Could you guys just try to make sense? I know some of you would love to use this stuff to justify your anti-immigration ideology. That's great, but in that case it doesn't work. | ||
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Aeromi
France14455 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:45 Millitron wrote: Maybe citizenship is given too lightly then. I can't wrap my head around your thinking. Those people were born in France. If things have to be done, it's not about immigration, it's about unemployment so that those kids do'nt seek out extremists groups to give them a purpose in life. Immigration was one of the tool that allowed France to stay a powerful country after the war, because if we didn't allow immigration, we would not had have anyone to rebuild the country... By the way, can someone confirm me the Donald Trump twitter is not a parody ? Because I can't fucking phantom if it's not the case... | ||
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Karel
France28 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:45 Millitron wrote: Maybe citizenship is given too lightly then. Man, what are you talking about? They are born in France, just like the others. Do you think that citizenship should be restricted to people who have proven (on which criteria?) that they are "not terrorists"? (as you may have noticed, people tend to desagree on the definition). Or you want to restrict tests to some part of the population, for instance whose with a belief you find dangerous? No thank you. I find personally enjoyable that France remain remotly democratic. | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:50 mahrgell wrote: you need helmet cameras etc as well? Just check the RAID homepage, I'm sure they are livestreaming it Broadcasted on AZUBU by Tastosis | ||
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Faefae
2202 Posts
History in the making.... | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
About citizenship, I agree with Millitron, being born is not enough. If I go to Russia with an italian girl and three years later we have a boy, I consider him more Italian than Russian. Citizenship should be about culture, language, traditions, not about boundaries | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7792 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:47 DeepElemBlues wrote: Which means absolutely nothing in the larger picture. Allegedly they said: "Tell the media this was al-Qaeda in Yemen." Is Yemen in France? I'm not saying they went to Yemen. I'm saying that these aren't lone wolves who trained and equipped themselves and planned the attack without help from anyone else. Borders don't mean anything in this context. People helped them, both inside and outside of France. Some of them probably shouldn't be in France but are anyway. And even if all of that isn't true, you know as well as I do that there are people in France who shouldn't be there organizing hate and inciting violence and preparing to help violence occur, and the reason they are in France is someone allowed them to come in and someone allows them to stay there. I mean seriously... talk about missing the forest for the trees. Go tell your government your conclusion that since these were French citizens born in France, it's pointless and stupid to worry about security concerns with immigration and refugees. I don't think they'll listen. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about, but I read the first profile of one of the murderers and he never left France, was born there and was a French citizen: http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/07/un-commando-organise-et-prepare_1175841 I don't know how you want to try to link that with the "exterior enemy infiltrated through immigration and asylum stuff" but that makes no sense at all. It's a story between French people that as far as we know has no connexion with any other country and certainly not with the infiltrated immigrants you fantasize about. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On January 08 2015 07:55 SoSexy wrote: People misunderstood me, I didn't mean a police stream but for example during the Sydney siege the footage was from the place, not studio interviews like now on France 24. About citizenship, I agree with Millitron, being born is not enough. If I go to Russia with an italian girl and three years later we have a boy, I consider him more Italian than Russian. Citizenship should be about culture, language, traditions, not about boundaries Well, if you manage to stay 3 years in the country, you were forced to atleast do something to become a citizen of it you know. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/07/shooting-paris-satirical-magazine-charlie-hebdo#block-54ada427e4b01f977f448fda Claims are being made that two of them were in Syria and came back to France in summer 2014, and one was arrested in 2005 trying to get to Syria so he could go to Iraq. So if they were in Syria, Biff maybe it's also a good idea to take a closer look at even people born in France trying to come into France, if they're coming from places like Syria? Immigration and asylum are just parts of overall border control. We're past the point of splitting hairs and particularism, European governments have been worried about people coming back from fighting in Syria for 3 years now. Radicals of all kinds of stripes moving to Europe or within Europe and stirring up trouble has been an issue for hundreds of years. There has to be a comprehensive, Continent-wide policy on this or eventually you will have an attack made directly by people who came in as immigrants or refugees, and you'll have more ferry sinkings in the Mediterranean too. I don't know what the fuck you are talking about, but I read the first profile of one of the murderers and he never left France, was born there and was a French citizen: http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/07/un-commando-organise-et-prepare_1175841 I don't know how you want to try to link that with the "exterior enemy infiltrated through immigration and asylum stuff" but that makes no sense at all. It's a story between French people that as far as we know has no connexion with any other country and certainly not with the infiltrated immigrants you fantasize about. http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1511763-20150107-direct-charlie-hebdo-tirs-armes-automatiques-entendus-locaux-journal?post=post-1420636663 http://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/heres-what-we-know-about-the-gunmen-behind-the-charlie-hebdo#.ygL269E30 I didn't link them, you did. What I said was in general, not particular. You made it particular for whatever reason, I can't read your mind. You're the one taking the astonishing stance that it's foolish to talk about it because these guys were French-born, when your governments and people have already been talking about it for over a decade and especially since 2011. Not my fault you're so far behind the issues. It's a legitimate concern no matter how much scorn you pour over it, you don't seem to get that. | ||
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