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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:35 krndandaman wrote: why such a big patch all of a sudden? big champ changes and lots of item changes Because they can? This is literally the kind of thing everyone whining on reddit wants because they're tired of seeing X champion all the time and don't realize we've been in a pattern of just rotating the X for years. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:30 Kinie wrote: So for those who missed it, Phreak began doing some math for the ADC items in 4.10, trying to calculate in the raw/flat numbers (AD, Armor Pen, etc.) along with some of the more "floaty" numbers (BotRK passive on-hit damage, # of Shiv procs, etc., Youmuu's additional armor pen., etc.) for people to look at and see. He has said that his numbers might be off a bit (mainly on the floaty bits), but the baseline champ he used was Ashe. He has said he will eventually do the math for the other champions and add in that champ's various unique attributes (Varus passive, Ez passive, etc.) , but has NOT done it on things like Reaver, Sword of the Occult, Zephyr, etc., instead only focusing on the core items that 95% of all ADCs get (the combination of BT, IE, LW, BotRK, Youmuu, PD, Shiv, Zerker Greaves, and D. Blade). I'll put the images in spoiler box, and some of the more math-y people can watch the archive of his stream (or do the math themselves) to compare and contrast with his findings. + Show Spoiler [Phreak's Table of Numbers] + Hard to trust numbers without the spreadsheet to look over it myself and judge things based on build order and power level at certain points of the game and vs various targets and adjusted damage with botrk. A good attempt though. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35062 Posts
On June 18 2014 08:54 nafta wrote: Actually putting a point in e doesn't reduce your damage.They reduced his ult damage by a lot though for some random ass reason. They didn't reduce it at all, pls reread. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:45 obesechicken13 wrote: Hard to trust numbers without the spreadsheet to look over it myself and judge things based on build order and power level at certain points of the game and vs various targets and adjusted damage with botrk. A good attempt though. I mean, I could try to photoshop the entire table he had, but that'd take more time than it would be worth, you'd be better off just watching him make the table. He did have the cost of all the items, with the baseline cost table being Doran, Zerkers, BT, LW, PD, which is just over 10k gold. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35062 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:50 krndandaman wrote: im asking a legitimate question unless your legitimate answer is really "i don't know" Because they finally got what they've been working on for a while to a spot where they're confident in pushing it live. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
NEWIMPALEMENT Impale consumes all stacks of Crystal Venom and deals 50/75/100 magic damage per stack consumed It does more damage on live even assuming you have 3 stacks when 99% of the time you will not have a single one. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35062 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:54 nafta wrote: NEWIMPALEMENT Impale consumes all stacks of Crystal Venom and deals 50/75/100 magic damage per stack consumed It does more damage on live even assuming you have 3 stacks when 99% of the time you will not have a single one. It still deals the old damage, it just deals passive stack damage now too. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:54 nafta wrote: NEWIMPALEMENT Impale consumes all stacks of Crystal Venom and deals 50/75/100 magic damage per stack consumed It does more damage on live even assuming you have 3 stacks when 99% of the time you will not have a single one. I think it's just a bonus on his ult. Which is an increase. So now level 1 R will deal 200+50*3 at max stacks. Basically I read it the way you did at first then when you commented on it, realized with Gahlo it was probably a bonus. They won't nerf Skarner when people are whining he's underplayed and needs a rework. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35062 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:58 obesechicken13 wrote: I think it's just a bonus on his ult. Which is an increase. So now level 1 E will deal 200+50*3 at max stacks. Basically I read it the way you did at first then when you commented on it, realized with Gahlo it was probably a bonus. They won't nerf Skarner when people are whining he's underplayed and needs a rework. The most important part of reading patch notes is that they only mention the changes.  | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:30 Kinie wrote: So for those who missed it, Phreak began doing some math for the ADC items in 4.10, trying to calculate in the raw/flat numbers (AD, Armor Pen, etc.) along with some of the more "floaty" numbers (BotRK passive on-hit damage, # of Shiv procs, etc., Youmuu's additional armor pen., etc.) for people to look at and see. He has said that his numbers might be off a bit (mainly on the floaty bits), but the baseline champ he used was Ashe. He has said he will eventually do the math for the other champions and add in that champ's various unique attributes (Varus passive, Ez passive, etc.) , but has NOT done it on things like Reaver, Sword of the Occult, Zephyr, etc., instead only focusing on the core items that 95% of all ADCs get (the combination of BT, IE, LW, BotRK, Youmuu, PD, Shiv, Zerker Greaves, and D. Blade). I'll put the images in spoiler box, and some of the more math-y people can watch the archive of his stream (or do the math themselves) to compare and contrast with his findings. + Show Spoiler [Phreak's Table of Numbers] + None of that is very surprising, its just not very useful and kind of obvious. Of course the items which have the most even combination of pen, crit, and AD will have the highest auto attack only DPS. What else were you expecting? Ghostblade is only really good on twitch because with your ult you both guarantee a duration when you can use its active, but also that you're going to hit the low armor targets in the back. Its also super wrong because you have to account for Ashe's auto crit and so Ashe's DPS decreases over time, but the low DPS builds will have the higher burst and so better real DPS over the course of many fights | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:18 wei2coolman wrote: This patch almost feels like the kind of shit Riot would have wanted completed before Season 4, but couldn't make the deadlines. dont worry, a couple weeks before worlds they'll make a huge patch like this and drastically change the game again. Look forward to the triforce buffs! | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:34 IMoperator wrote: dont worry, a couple weeks before worlds they'll make a huge patch like this and drastically change the game again. Look forward to the triforce buffs! Rito's item change decisions fucking baffle me. All these changes, meanwhile Atma's still sitting around with 15% crit, with terrible slot efficiency. Or Zeke's, or ohmwrecker, or frozenmallet, or wramogs or wits end or wota that no one fucking buys. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:42 wei2coolman wrote: Rito's item change decisions fucking baffle me. All these changes, meanwhile Atma's still sitting around with 15% crit, with terrible slot efficiency. Or Zeke's, or ohmwrecker, or frozenmallet, or wramogs or wits end or wota that no one fucking buys. Wits got changed. Just saying Fuck: Valkyrie. No one build too many mutalisks or I won't be able to fire k? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35062 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:32 Goumindong wrote: None of that is very surprising, its just not very useful and kind of obvious. Of course the items which have the most even combination of pen, crit, and AD will have the highest auto attack only DPS. What else were you expecting? Ghostblade is only really good on twitch because with your ult you both guarantee a duration when you can use its active, but also that you're going to hit the low armor targets in the back. Its also super wrong because you have to account for Ashe's auto crit and so Ashe's DPS decreases over time, but the low DPS builds will have the higher burst and so better real DPS over the course of many fights Actually, it is pretty nice because when he did it for Ezreal he pointed out that BT/LW/Triforce is an awful build on him. Pretty sure this didn't take into account Ashe's passive. The "Worth-it" column was looking for gold efficiency on auto damage, and the Volley one purely for poking with Volley. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:32 Goumindong wrote: None of that is very surprising, its just not very useful and kind of obvious. Of course the items which have the most even combination of pen, crit, and AD will have the highest auto attack only DPS. What else were you expecting? Ghostblade is only really good on twitch because with your ult you both guarantee a duration when you can use its active, but also that you're going to hit the low armor targets in the back. Its also super wrong because you have to account for Ashe's auto crit and so Ashe's DPS decreases over time, but the low DPS builds will have the higher burst and so better real DPS over the course of many fights I think he just used Ashe as the first champ because she's the first ADC in alphabetical order. He has said he'll do it for the other ADCs and try to calculate in the champ's passive and most commonly used skills during a team fight. | ||
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arb
Noobville17918 Posts
On June 18 2014 07:35 onlywonderboy wrote: I could see it being built a lot in Silver and Gold to shore up poor mana management during laning, but I don't see it getting picked up much in pro play. I think it'll be pretty good on Jayce, 50 ad and lifesteal isnt too terrible, esp when it means he is going to be able to shit on kids constantly with W which is pretty lulzy | ||
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