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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:43 obesechicken13 wrote: Wits got changed. Just saying  Fuck: Valkyrie. No one build too many mutalisks or I won't be able to fire k? wit's only got changed because with the dagger change, it would actually lose stats if it kept it's current stat line. it's still going to be a shit item. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:42 wei2coolman wrote: Rito's item change decisions fucking baffle me. All these changes, meanwhile Atma's still sitting around with 15% crit, with terrible slot efficiency. Or Zeke's, or ohmwrecker, or frozenmallet, or wramogs or wits end or wota that no one fucking buys. Xypherous said that the team doesn't want an AD/Armor item because it makes what they consider the next generation of "heavy bruisers"(excuse me while I puke) too strong. They've said they will be removing FM. Warmogs/FH is most likely better than Randuin/Sunfire now. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:44 Gahlo wrote: Actually, it is pretty nice because when he did it for Ezreal he pointed out that BT/LW/Triforce is an awful build on him. Pretty sure this didn't take into account Ashe's passive. The "Worth-it" column was looking for gold efficiency on auto damage, and the Volley one purely for poking with Volley. As compared to what? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I also think the Triforce build on AD carries is pretty bad. Phreak's going to change the meta with mathcraft :o but by betraying his old image of Triforce + Jungle + Puns of damage | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
I don't have a screen of that table, so I can't say. On June 18 2014 11:03 obesechicken13 wrote: I also think the Triforce build on AD carries is pretty bad. Trick's going to change the meta with mathcraft :o Phreak, not Trick. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:50 Gahlo wrote: Xypherous said that the team doesn't want an AD/Armor item because it makes what they consider the next generation of "heavy bruisers"(excuse me while I puke) too strong. They've said they will be removing FM. Warmogs/FH is most likely better than Randuin/Sunfire now. stat wise, yeah, warmogs FH in endgame, numbers wise works out similar. Randuins AoE slow is pretty damn good though, and the build up is far more forgiving towards randuin/sunfire. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I don't know what you're talking about >.> | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 18 2014 11:03 obesechicken13 wrote: I also think the Triforce build on AD carries is pretty bad. Phreak's going to change the meta with mathcraft :o but by betraying his old image of Triforce + Jungle + Puns of damage I am betting he is suggesting triforce, Botrk, LW instead | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 18 2014 11:30 PrinceXizor wrote: Zeke's is really good, its just quiet good so no one notices. zeke's the item is alright in isolation, the problem is that it costs 2550g, which is the timing that your ADC already has a significant amount of lifesteal as is, and the point where you start letting your ADC farm sidelane alone, instead of baby sitting his ass. Considering most supports get tier 2 of their gold generation item, and sightstone before working on their first big item, 2550g is an unsightly amount invested into an item where in most situations only 1 person will use it effectively, if you're lucky maybe 2. Not to mention the sustain offered in teamfights looks like shit in comparison to the shield given by locket, and Mikael's active. It would be pretty sick if they could offer the item at like 1400 gold pricing, with smooth build up. Or maybe make it significant amount of on hit per life at that price point instead of. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 18 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote: stat wise, yeah, warmogs FH in endgame, numbers wise works out similar. Randuins AoE slow is pretty damn good though, and the build up is far more forgiving towards randuin/sunfire. A 2 item timing is hardly "endgame" for top laners, the build up isn't that bad either. Belt/Chain to... Warmogs Sunfire first vs Warmog's first: Sunfire/Belt(3650g): 45 Armor, 830hp, Sunfire Warmog's/Chain(3550g): 40 Armor, 1000hp, Mog's Regen Omen first vs Warmog's first: Omen/Belt(4000g): 70 Armor 880hp, Omen, Cold Steel Warmog's/Warden's(3830): 50 Armor, 1000hp, Mog's Regen, Cold Steel Frozen Heart Sunfire first vs Frozen Heart first: Sunfire/Warden's(3650g): 95 Armor, 450 hp, Sunfire, Cold Steel Frozen Heat/Belt(3600g): 100 Armor, 380hp, 400 mana, 20% CDR, Improved Cold Steel Omen first vs Frozen Heart first: Omen/Chain(3700g): 110 Armor, 500hp, Omen, Cold Steel Frozen Heat/Belt(3600g): 100 Armor, 380hp, 400 mana, 20% CDR, Improved Cold Steel I think those are pretty comparable even as early as 1."5" items. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 18 2014 11:46 Gahlo wrote: A 2 item timing is hardly "endgame" for top laners, the build up isn't that bad either. Belt/Chain to... Warmogs Sunfire first vs Warmog's first: Sunfire/Belt(3650g): 45 Armor, 830hp, Sunfire Warmog's/Chain(3550g): 40 Armor, 1000hp, Mog's Regen Omen first vs Warmog's first: Omen/Belt(4000g): 70 Armor 880hp, Omen, Cold Steel Warmog's/Warden's(3830): 50 Armor, 1000hp, Mog's Regen, Cold Steel Frozen Heart Sunfire first vs Frozen Heart first: Sunfire/Warden's(3650g): 95 Armor, 450 hp, Sunfire, Cold Steel Frozen Heat/Belt(3600g): 100 Armor, 380hp, 400 mana, 20% CDR, Improved Cold Steel Omen first vs Frozen Heart first: Omen/Chain(3700g): 110 Armor, 500hp, Omen, Cold Steel Frozen Heat/Belt(3600g): 100 Armor, 380hp, 400 mana, 20% CDR, Improved Cold Steel I think those are pretty comparable even as early as 1."5" items. Usually with toplaners now, it's more common to see the 1 armor item + 1 mr item timing, not the 2 armor item timing (unless you're playing against full AD), so usually the time you get warmogs + FH it's the 3rd item timing, and that's assuming you don't even go tiamat or botrk. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 18 2014 11:50 wei2coolman wrote: Usually with toplaners now, it's more common to see the 1 armor item + 1 mr item timing, not the 2 armor item timing (unless you're playing against full AD), so usually the time you get warmogs + FH, you're into your 3rd item timing, and that's assuming you don't even go tiamat or botrk. I've noticed it being more towards Armor/Cowl/belt for second armor item in most cases. Even so... Sunfire/Banshee's(5400g): 900hp, 55 MR, 45 Armor, Sunfire, Spellshield, Banshee regen Warmog's, Warden's, Cowl(5230g): 1200hp, 45 MR, 50 Armor, Cold Steel, Mog's Regen, Cowl Regen Omen/Banshee's(5750g): 950hp, 55 MR, 70 Armor, Omen, Cold Steel, Spellshield, Banshee Regen Warmog's, Warden's, Cowl, Ruby(5630) 1350hp, 45 MR, 50 Armor, Cold Steel, Mog's Regen, Cowl Regen If you're going to build an offensive item, any sort of multi-tank item setup will be pushed later into the game. | ||
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ZataN
New Zealand414 Posts
He was saying that completed BOTRK will do more damage now which i think is true. I think the build up to BOTRK will be far worse especially with the dorans blade changes (assuming double dorans into bilgewater). Thoughts? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 18 2014 12:07 Gahlo wrote: I've noticed it being more towards Armor/Cowl/belt for second armor item in most cases. Even so... Sunfire/Banshee's(5400g): 900hp, 55 MR, 45 Armor, Sunfire, Spellshield, Banshee regen Warmog's, Warden's, Cowl(5230g): 1200hp, 45 MR, 50 Armor, Cold Steel, Mog's Regen, Cowl Regen Omen/Banshee's(5750g): 950hp, 55 MR, 70 Armor, Omen, Cold Steel, Spellshield, Banshee Regen Warmog's, Warden's, Cowl, Ruby(5630) 1350hp, 45 MR, 50 Armor, Cold Steel, Mog's Regen, Cowl Regen If you're going to build an offensive item, any sort of multi-tank item setup will be pushed later into the game. depends on the toplaner. usually for trundle/shyv/renekton, trundle it's botrk first, shyv it differentiates between the early defensive item, or the bildgewater first into defensive item. Renekton, tiamat start is becoming a lot more popular since it delays the item timing in which shyv starts outscaling. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 18 2014 12:13 ZataN wrote: My friend is saying that the BOTRK change & AS general buff will make AA top laners a lot stronger. I was under the impression that the BOTRK change was a nerf... He was saying that completed BOTRK will do more damage now which i think is true. I think the build up to BOTRK will be far worse especially with the dorans blade changes (assuming double dorans into bilgewater). Thoughts? Think I read that new BotRK outdamage old one at 3 hits. Most people read the changes to BotRK, see the active getting nerfed, and completely miss the passive getting buffed. Don't know what the criteria for the target's armor/hp is though. On June 18 2014 12:16 wei2coolman wrote: depends on the toplaner. usually for trundle/shyv/renekton, trundle it's botrk first, shyv it differentiates between the early defensive item, or the bildgewater first into defensive item. Renekton, tiamat start is becoming a lot more popular since it delays the item timing in which shyv starts outscaling. And it's all zero-sum. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On June 18 2014 10:50 Gahlo wrote: Xypherous said that the team doesn't want an AD/Armor item because it makes what they consider the next generation of "heavy bruisers"(excuse me while I puke) too strong. They've said they will be removing FM. Warmogs/FH is most likely better than Randuin/Sunfire now. Xypth is usually pretty on point but his comment about FM is retarded. That item is totally fine. The issue with FM is its ridiculous build path that forces it to be a late game item, and its cost. It does fulfill a niche in the game but it is just so hard to get there. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 18 2014 12:20 Sufficiency wrote: Xypth is usually pretty on point but his comment about FM is retarded. That item is totally fine. The issue with FM is its ridiculous build path that forces it to be a late game item, and its cost. It does fulfill a niche in the game but it is just so hard to get there. I don't know where the FM comment came from. I only quoted him on the AD/Armor item because it was something I asked and he responded directly to me. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 18 2014 12:18 Gahlo wrote: Think I read that new BotRK outdamage old one at 3 hits. Most people read the changes to BotRK, see the active getting nerfed, and completely miss the passive getting buffed. Don't know what the criteria for the target's armor/hp is though. New BotRK outdamages the only one right away so long as you don't need the active. If you hit someone with full health twice before using the active then new botrk > old botrk in total damage. Its going to be hard to not do more total damage with the new BotRK | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 18 2014 12:21 Goumindong wrote: New BotRK outdamages the only one right away so long as you don't need the active. If you hit someone with full health twice before using the active then new botrk > old botrk in total damage. Its going to be hard to not do more total damage with the new BotRK I'm just following the situation that "the sky is falling" people presented. I think BotRK is, at worst, getting a horizontal change. | ||
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