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Hapa's Happy Meta Arguments
A Compilation of Quotes by Debears (Thankyou Cheese for the idea from last game):
Here are Hapa's full use of meta in this game. He mentions it quite often when making a base read on someone's actions. ****WARNING SPOILER IS LONG. IT CONTAINS EVERY META QUOTE HE HAS IN GAME******
+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote:
if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post
##vote: hapahauli
im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig So retarded. ##Vote: Strongandbig You're voting him 'cause the post is retarded? And not because it's scummy? The last time you pulled that, you were scum (Mafia LVII). ##Vote DarthPunk('fo real this time) Meta on DP On November 13 2012 10:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote:
Does S&B normally act like this?
Just curious :D
Feel free to answer that S&B Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:48 strongandbig wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game. I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller. My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red. That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet. Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out  HI ZB <3. Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out. GG scummers But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3 Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action. Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler. Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler this is stupid He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here. ## Vote StrongandBig Meta on S&B On November 13 2012 15:34 Hapahauli wrote:Done with paper woo! So here are some thoughts before I'm off to bed: @ KickstarterHeya bud! Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:11 Kickstart wrote:
Just got back from school, it let out a bit early. Had a bit of catching up to do in the thread but not too much has happened yet. I would like to ask Hapa a question though, I think it is only fair since you wanted to know more about me!
Hapa: What do you think is most important for a successful Day1 for town, and how do you feel you have contributed? A successful Day 1 is an active Day 1. If townies are open, active, and honest, it generates tons of information and makes it hard for scum to hide. As far as my own contributions, it seems like a really pointless question, since my answer will be biased as either alignment. I'll just let my activity speak for itself over the next 48 hours. Also, I realize you're a new player, so please don't be afraid to post! How open and active you are is really important in order for town to figure out your alignment. If you're town, post! If you're scum, just roleclaim or somethin =D
Regarding StrongandBigI'm so torn on him, and fortunately we have another ~40 hours to determine his alignment. I'm undecided whether or not he's just deliberately trolling or not. Having seen him play scum in Mafia LVII and DeathNote Mini, this just seems as such a far departure from his more "careful" scum-style of play. He seems to be really inviting attention to himself at this point and is overall very ambivalent to suspicion against him. On the other hand, his play on it's face right now just seems really scummy. My previous point (on him criticizing debears) still stands, and his recent posting is just ridiculously off. My vote will stay on him until he proves his alignment otherwise.
Regarding the InactivesActivity has been really solid so far, but we still have two players who haven't posted, Crossfire99 and Thrawn. I'm not going to judge them after only a couple of hours, but I'm looking forward to hearing from both of them. Also BlazingHand has been very off from his traditional "dick dick dick" screaming townie play. He's notoriously bad at scum, and his play so far is something that I'd expect from his scumplay. Again, not going to judge based on 6 hours, but he'll likely have my vote if he keeps this up. Meta on S&B and BH On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote:Catching up on my lunch break.
Regarding SnB##UnvoteAfter sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.)
Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote:Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Clarity
Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike?
You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this.
Regarding the Z-Boson CaseI really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. Show nested quote +ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him.
Regarding iamperfectionHis sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: Show nested quote +I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection More meta on S&B. Meta on Z-Bo. Meta on iamp On November 14 2012 07:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh sniped by some cases on BH. I'll get to that in a bit.
I've always heard that BH's scum-play is notoriously bad, and he seems more fearless than I would expect from his "bad" scum play. I'll take a look at the cases, but that's my first impression of him anywho. Meta on BH On November 14 2012 07:26 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:21 marvellosity wrote:
no Hapa, the point is you're not putting yourself in scum iamp shoes, not town iamp shoes. His rationale and motive make sense to me from a scum perspective - I've already mentioned that. Making a 180 when spurred by another case is scummy and convenient. I realize you disagree, but I think you're wrong. And to draw comparisons to the read on Kei you mentioned in GSL III - I find imaperfection's actions alone much more scummy than Kei's actions in GSL III. Kei has a history of reluctant D1 play. Iamperfection doesn't have a history of these things in his town play to my knowledge. Meta on iamp On November 14 2012 08:39 Hapahauli wrote:
@iamp
##Unvote
From your reactions so far, you're probably town. The "I don't give a fuck" thing has been on full display for the last few hours, and that meta read hasn't been wrong on you yet.
I also do like the post on Z-Bo, but I give him less townie points than you do. Z-Bo can push a read as either allignment, but I do agree he's being open so far. meta on iamp On November 14 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player. So let's get thrawn talking shall we? ##Vote Thrawn(Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm) Meta on thrawn On November 14 2012 11:45 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:41 marvellosity wrote:On November 14 2012 11:39 Blazinghand wrote:On November 14 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote:
i agree not to carry on being mad at you if you promise not to say again a single time that your claim was a good idea. If someone asks me, I will answer truthfully, but I won't volunteer information if I don't see a need to. On November 14 2012 11:35 marvellosity wrote:
thrawn dear, where indeed have you been?
The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours. from a meta perspective, yes, this is what town DP does, but the fact that he hasn't taken any stances that currently he's maintaining / is accountable for is scummy. I find him worthwhile even if Thrawn's meta case is crap. I think Thrawn comes out of this looking worse though, because he brought up a meta case that is basically false. I'd like to see more out of DP though, and so they're my two lynch targets right now. Plus you kinda for being such a drama queen. I disagree thrawn looks worse, as I know he genuinely believes in that meta read. It's not specific to this game. I still want to know where the hell he has been. He's posted 3 times - this is unlike anything in his town games. meta on thrawn On November 14 2012 12:51 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:47 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 14 2012 12:44 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 12:41 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 14 2012 12:37 Blazinghand wrote:
thawn so do you have a game in mind as an example of DP's scum meta? Since you and marv aree disagreeinvw my impression of dp's scum meta is based on what I read from his play in LC. He was wishy washy with his read on kushmasta while trying to mislynch him, not being stubborn as i'd come to expect Really? I was on his team in LC and he seemed super tunnel-y on kush. Though tbh, tunneling townies is part of his scum and town meta. Hence why I have a hard time reading him. it was all the midway through the game shit with boson, kush, and dp. dp was tunneling kush, but he seemed to not really care too much if kush actually got lynched as long as there was another townie to mislynch. town dp rides his targets into the ground for better or worse From what I remember from Mafia LVII, he tried to ride people into the ground there as well (as scum). I'll look into it, but I'm not all too convinced about the meta read. Still pretty null on DP for the record. He's a little less active than I'm used to seeing him, though he's probably still asleep. Also, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on some other players... howabout debears? I think he's much summier than DP at the moment. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=37#726 Meta on DP
So, now everyone understands why I want to hear Hapa's meta on me. He was my coach in two games. He has seen all four of my games. So, I would guess he knows my play pretty well on both sides.
What has hapa said about my meta?
Here is his first post in which he found me scummy
On November 14 2012 09:41 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +Hapauli. Much quieter this game. Much less present. Disappeared during all of my interaction with BH, only to appear after the claim. I don't buy his cases, especially the one on iamp. Completely ignored my first case on BH, and town Hapa usually comments on everything. In the beginning, put on some light pressure on DP, then unvoted him from some easy explanation only to never mention him again. Not a play I'd see hapa do. I'm in school on weekdays - it's impossible for me to be more "present" than I currently am. As for BH, I DID comment on him: Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh sniped by some cases on BH. I'll get to that in a bit.
I've always heard that BH's scum-play is notoriously bad, and he seems more fearless than I would expect from his "bad" scum play. I'll take a look at the cases, but that's my first impression of him anywho. He claimed shortly thereafter, so it was pointless for me to comment more.
On to the rest of your stuff: Your Town Reads:Agree on clarity and iamperfection. Clarity seems much more engaged this game than his Newbie XXX game. Iamperfection for reasons previously stated. Disagree on marv. I don't think he's done anything alignment indicative. He's definitely capable of doing this as scum, even though he played a more dispirited game last game. Completely null on him. Your Null Reads:I'm putting SnB into the town category (again POSSIBLY the SK, but I don't want to speculate too much). His play so far is such a far departure from his scumplay. Crossfire is null (duh) I'm getting more scum vibes from Thrawn. He's made one pretty coherent post and just peaced out. He could be afk for RL issues or something, but given that he's never played a scumgame (to my knowledge) and that we have a sudden deviation in his play, the connection is there. Your ScumreadsDisagree with me obv, I'm town dawg
As for debears, he was one of the players willing to follow me on iamperfection, and he made one of those "overkill"/"overexplained" cases when voting him:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=29#575
It reads as really artificial and a way to cover his bases. Agreed here.I'm firmly null on DarthPunk. Hopeless is lurky, but that's normal regardless of alignment for him (null as well).
No meta. His suspicion is "overkill case", which means to me "trying to hard to scumhunt".
On November 14 2012 10:13 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
i'm starting to ponder debears also Looking at debears, there's not much to say other than there's not much substance in his 4-page filter. Lots of short, 1/2 line posts with banter. He jumps on Hopeless really quickly, who's one of the easier targets in the game. He's then pretty quick to jump on iamperfection, and has been pushing that "read" since. As previously stated, his "vote post" looks like an overkill-case. But the thing that really sticks out to me is that he's been tunneling iamperfection for the last few hours yet still has his vote on Hopeless. He's using a lot of strong language against iamperfection (much stronger than against hopeless), and from his filter it looks like iamperfection is his top scumread. At this point he's much more content to push the read on iamperfection than his one on Hopeless, and I see no townie reason why his vote isn't where his mouth is. ##Unvote##Vote debears
Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy
ISN'T THAT THE PROBLEM? HOPELESS HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAS ZERO CONTENT
So, what does Hapa's case boil down to? Me scumhunting while my vote is on another player. Hey HAPPPPPA LOOK AT THIS
On November 14 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:40 Blazinghand wrote:On November 14 2012 12:38 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 12:33 Kickstart wrote:On November 14 2012 12:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 12:19 Kickstart wrote:
I am down for flipping you and BH at this point. I am not really interesting in arguing with you about it - I find the fact that I was down for voting BH and you, then after him claiming jk just voting for you to be perfectly reasonable. Again I want other people to weigh in though. I don't. Your logic is completely disproportionate. You show every indication of wanting BH dead and are very eager about "flipping" him. You don't trust his claim, don't like his posts, don't like anything about him, then magically twist your vote on me because apparently you don't like a "bandwagon" I started. Yet you sympathize with my logic, yet disagree with it by ignoring all of my emphasized points. It. Makes. No. Sense. And I"m having a very difficult time figuring out if you're just dense about it or you have a mafia motive for all of this. You don't, I do - that is ok with me. Having a scum read on both you and BH and voting you over him is not as big of a leap as you are trying to make it sound. And I have not "magically twisted my vote" on you, I have given my view on you from the beginning, and unlike some - have voted once, and not by way of bandwagon. It is "magically twisted." Apparently you think I'm scummy because I've been pushing my suspicions too well. Yeah GL with that. That's awful. Im done with this shit just ignore him for now he adds no value to our discourse Well it pisses me off when someone's case on me is "lol you're scumhunting too hard"/rant AAAAAAnnnnyway, whaddya think of him? Stupid townie newbie or scummy?
Hapa is either playing terribly as town, or he is scum
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
First things first: you are a clever dude.
Yes
On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you.
Yes
On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
Things that have struck me this game with that:
- You called iamp "bad" at least a couple of times. Just outright calling him a bad player. This is in contrast to say Rock Band where you railed at him for poor play and you kept pushing him to play better. Here you call him bad and that's different.
Different than Rock Band, yes. But I've also posted more 1-liners which is different. Also I'm posting via my phone more often which is different. Lots of things are different. Are you really drawing a meta comparison after throwing out my scum meta earlier? Is this "blazinghand isn't playing his scum meta, but some other meta that's not his scum meta, but trust me I think he's scum due to this meta read that's unrelated to his scum meta?" ._.
On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
- You called Kickstart "scum or bad", he should be "ignored", he should be "removed from our discourse" (or whatever the direct quote was). The townie BH I know does not completely belittle players like this. This boils down to pretty much outright bullying of a brand new player, and that is not the townie BH I know.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=261213¤tpage=All
On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
- we've also talked about this before again, but one reason you're pretty good as town is that you make yourself look positively townie with your play. I don't give a shit if you got mislynched once, that's how you normally play town. Here your play is marked by put downs, sarcastic remarks, and very little positive input.
If your'e saying "you've done a poor job of looking townie this game, so I think you're scum" that's reasonable. It's a normal read. If you're saying "you've done a poor job of looking townie this game, but that's not why I think you're scum-- I think you're scum because as town you have a meta of looking town" then that's unreasonable unless you actually draw comparison to my scum meta. Any read on me should be based on my play, yes, but if you're going to make a meta read call a horse a horse and make a meta read.
On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
- your case on Z-Boson. This was going to be part of my 'quiz', but if we take a look at your two most recent town-games, Rock Band and Whose Line, your first cases are marked by extensive use of meta. X is scummy because of Y, and look at how he played in this game and this game and this game to try to prove your argument. In this game you made no effort to research Z-Boson's meta, and that's not what I expect of a town BH. In contrast, your first major case as SK in Emergency Mafia also failed to utilise any meta as a supporting argument. Same with Bureaucracy.
So you're saying I have a scum meta of not using meta? Before Rock Band, I'm pretty sure I never used meta as town or scum. After my modkill in igrok's game, I did some serious thinking and have gradually been making changes to my play, including making more extensive use of meta. Just because I haven't rolled scum super recently doesn't mean you can just say "oh look blazinghand isn't using meta, therefore he is scum"
As a final note, I want to re-quote this:
On November 15 2012 01:10 marvellosity wrote:
You are also aware of your scum meta, and we've talked about it before too. As such you're capable of making changes to your meta, or trying to. In other words, being more aggressive and what have you.
You can't have it both ways. Either you're using my scum meta, or you're not using my scum meta and you're making a regular case. You can't say "Well, BH's play is nothing like his scum meta, BUT I still think I can make a meta case". I haven't played well this game-- make a case on that instead of wasting our time with non-meta meta reads
[/QUOTE]
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia"
For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game
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^^^^^Z-bo join the club
I am scummy looking d1 every game too :D
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Cmon Hapa respond to my case man. We only got 2 hours left before ze lynch
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Debears your case boils down to: "Hapa hasn't posted a meta read so the rest of his case doesn't matter"
Have you considered that your town and scum meta D1 are rather similar, so there is no meta read to be made?
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On November 15 2012 08:49 Clarity_nl wrote:
Debears your case boils down to: "Hapa hasn't posted a meta read so the rest of his case doesn't matter"
Have you considered that your town and scum meta D1 are rather similar, so there is no meta read to be made?
There are differences my friend. There are differences.
Besides, he's using it everywhere else. Why does he refuse to use it on me?
And it's not just meta. It's how he betrays his scumhunting rules. Read my cases in filter plzzzz
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p.s. I lied, I'm still at work. 
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lol this would be a great scum buddy strat
"hey db let's make terrrible terrible cases on each other and then push them really hard."
"yes hapahauli let's do that then everyone will say "oh these cases are terrible the people they are attacking must be town""
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That's fucking rediculous debears. I have no idea why I'm going to respond to it, but hopefully I can show the thread how desperate you are right now:
1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#796
2) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL.
3) Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy
ROFL at no meta again.
ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#937
4) ISN'T THAT THE PROBLEM? HOPELESS HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAS ZERO CONTENT
AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town.
But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum.
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On November 15 2012 08:52 strongandbig wrote:
lol this would be a great scum buddy strat
"hey db let's make terrrible terrible cases on each other and then push them really hard."
"yes hapahauli let's do that then everyone will say "oh these cases are terrible the people they are attacking must be town""
Please be useful.
Please.
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Marv, that 3 hours is looking awfully short right about now. You said it was hard putting a case together on zbo, but should we still expect it?
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On November 15 2012 08:53 Hapahauli wrote:That's fucking rediculous debears. I have no idea why I'm going to respond to it, but hopefully I can show the thread how desperate you are right now: 1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#7962) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL. 3) Show nested quote +Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy ROFL at no meta again. ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#9374) AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town.
But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum.
You've just committed to showing shitty logic from scum debears =\
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On November 15 2012 08:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:52 strongandbig wrote:
lol this would be a great scum buddy strat
"hey db let's make terrrible terrible cases on each other and then push them really hard."
"yes hapahauli let's do that then everyone will say "oh these cases are terrible the people they are attacking must be town"" Please be useful. Please.
what do you think about my comments on hopeless's list post
did you actually read hopeless's list post? if not go do it now and actually think for like thirty seconds about what he says in it.
do the things he says in it actually make sense?
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On November 15 2012 08:55 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:53 Hapahauli wrote:That's fucking rediculous debears. I have no idea why I'm going to respond to it, but hopefully I can show the thread how desperate you are right now: 1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#7962) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL. 3) Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy ROFL at no meta again. ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#9374) ISN'T THAT THE PROBLEM? HOPELESS HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAS ZERO CONTENT AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town.
But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum. You've just committed to showing shitty logic from scum debears =\
It's rather hard to post perfect logic when you're scum and you HAVE to show suspicion of confirmed townies.
What's your point?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Z-Boson
Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort.
On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read  ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: Show nested quote +(...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. Show nested quote +ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:
Regarding YourHarry:
Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words:
-First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg.
-YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here.
-The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting.
-On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets.
There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda.
And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.:
Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text):
thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!
[spoiler=Final Vote Count]
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated. Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": Show nested quote +(...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: Show nested quote +(...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma
Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here.
What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game?
On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP?
On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet!
On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?
On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us
On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him?
On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward?
On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again.
On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me.
This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time.
Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it:
On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out
Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo.
On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do.
It goes from the above, to:
On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick.
On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote
There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense".
Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it.
Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play.
When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone.
Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum.
As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out.
##Vote: Z-Boson
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ATTTENTION-----------------------
WHO IS THINKING OF VOTING ME BUT DOESN'T HAVE THEIR VOTE ON ME?
I NEED TO KNOW PROMPTLY
THANKYOU
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On November 15 2012 08:56 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:55 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 15 2012 08:53 Hapahauli wrote:That's fucking rediculous debears. I have no idea why I'm going to respond to it, but hopefully I can show the thread how desperate you are right now: 1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#7962) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL. 3) Next post. No meta. Just an assumption that iamp was my top scumread because iamp had more content and that I didn't vote him, which he sees as scummy ROFL at no meta again. ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#9374) ISN'T THAT THE PROBLEM? HOPELESS HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAS ZERO CONTENT AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town.
But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum. You've just committed to showing shitty logic from scum debears =\ It's rather hard to post perfect logic when you're scum and you HAVE to show suspicion of confirmed townies. What's your point?
That debears is going to rage at OMG META READ WITH NO EXAMPLES
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I am debears. Although considering marv's case atm.
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On November 15 2012 08:55 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:54 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 08:52 strongandbig wrote:
lol this would be a great scum buddy strat
"hey db let's make terrrible terrible cases on each other and then push them really hard."
"yes hapahauli let's do that then everyone will say "oh these cases are terrible the people they are attacking must be town"" Please be useful. Please. what do you think about my comments on hopeless's list post did you actually read hopeless's list post? if not go do it now and actually think for like thirty seconds about what he says in it. do the things he says in it actually make sense?
Just read it - I think he makes sense. You really hate on his "associative tells", but I think they're pretty reasonable to make when you have strong feelings about a player's allignment. Then again I'm seethingly biased on this since I'm pretty convinced debears is scum
I agree it doesn't have much in the way of content, but at the end of the day, i really think he's capable of doing this stuff as town. I also think debears is infinitely more scummy than Hopeless at this point.
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EPT
