On October 23 2012 08:01 LighT. wrote: It seems like majority of TL sides with the players while almost all the koreans from fomos playxp etc. are siding with jessica. From just reading the first paragragh, jessica is calling cranks interview pure bs and listin her reasons
Jessica should learn some dignity and just let things go. As if she hasn't said enough already. How immature do you have to be to want to spray more vitriol on these guys?
On October 23 2012 08:04 Shival wrote:
On October 23 2012 08:03 tMomiji wrote:
On October 23 2012 08:00 Shival wrote:
On October 23 2012 07:59 tMomiji wrote:
On October 23 2012 07:56 Shival wrote:
On October 23 2012 07:53 Jetaap wrote: I hate this, Jessica is acting completly insane and is incredibly destructive. Why the hell does she wants to have these players burn to flame, even if there was some truth in what he said she would not be right to do it this way. Absolutely disgusting.
It's perfectly justied that's she's doing this, if what she said is true. I don't believe we should support and encourage those players, nor give them the ability to 'rake in the money' as it were. And I stress again, that's only if it's true of course.
How can this be justified, no matter *what* happened?? Attacking these kids like that? No matter what really happened I cannot condone that...
Kids..? Do you even know how old they are?
Yes I do. ^^ Crank is 23 and MMA is soon to be 24 - in just one week! Anyone under 30 is a kid to meeeee~ Not a child obviously, but still a kid.
They're of mature age, past that point you cannot treat them different than an adult.
No way dude. 40 and 21/23 are different. Especially if you are also the person in the position of authority. That is not an even relationship at all.
What people have to understand is theyre all acting like little kids. Jessica according to her new interview is doing for honor. Mma accepted his wron doings he admitted the mistakes and he said you know what, slayers management was poor and lacking but i also did wrongful things myself, i take responsibility... Class
Crank and jess on the other hand is at war.. Theyre deluding themselves having no faults but theyre responsible for the mess and they have to accept it. Maybe crank is lying as jess states in her new interview or maybe jess is taking a misunderstanidng and blowing it out of porportion. But crank youre in your mid twenties, jessic youre in your forties.. Smarten up
Crank is only 23. And he says that he made mistakes and apologises . He isn't trying to shift the entire blame. The only one who is saying it isn't their fault at all is Jessica.
On October 23 2012 08:08 Thehealbus wrote: I think that Jessica tried her best to to the team as well as she could, but the amount of severe problems that the players caused led to the team breaking down.
I'm extremely disappointed that crank is trying to defend his constant lying.
It's a very big tell that cella is siding with Jessica against crank.
Indeed, evidence that Crank has been lying and severely lacking in decency (not letting Slayers know anything) has been provided. Cella is even siding with Jessica on this matter. I'm not sure how much more you guys need to stop defending the player and ridiculing Jessica.
On October 23 2012 07:53 Jetaap wrote: I hate this, Jessica is acting completly insane and is incredibly destructive. Why the hell does she wants to have these players burn to flame, even if there was some truth in what he said she would not be right to do it this way. Absolutely disgusting.
It's perfectly justied that's she's doing this, if what she said is true. I don't believe we should support and encourage those players, nor give them the ability to 'rake in the money' as it were. And I stress again, that's only if it's true of course.
How can this be justified, no matter *what* happened?? Attacking these kids like that? No matter what really happened I cannot condone that...
Kids..? Do you even know how old they are?
Yes I do. ^^ Crank is 23 and MMA is soon to be 24 - in just one week! Anyone under 30 is a kid to meeeee~ Not a child obviously, but still a kid.
They're of mature age, past that point you cannot treat them different than an adult.
Regardless I do not condone the way she has handled this and how she has attacked them.
That's fine, I beg to differ but it's a fine opinion to have
-gasp- You mean two people can have different opinions but still be civil towards each other? MADNESS.
Ridiculous notion, right?
Stop 'ridiculing' Jessica for shitting on her players in her last statement? She could have easily left the drama out and parted on a note that Slayers had internal disputes. Instead she took the low road, and released anything convenient to making her look like a saint and the players the destruction of SlayerS. She's not innocent in this either, and shes wholly responsible for bringing the drama to the public forum.
On October 23 2012 08:07 SupLilSon wrote: Why are Koreans siding with Jessica? I'm not saying they shouldn't but I just don't see a clear right or wrong here. To me it seems like all aspects of SlayerS were messed up. What aspect of this drama plants the blame squarely on MMA/Crank/Alicia? Can a Korean explain the reasoning behind this?
It really feels like Jessica is simply a better spin-doctor. She got in early with MMA being dropped to the b-team and then released that looong statement about MMA and Crank. Hard for them to get past the first impressions. But that's obviously just a guess, I'd also be interested to know from any Koreans why they think it's the case.
spin doctor who has presented records and evidence? in what world is that spin? that's called truth.
Spin doesn't matter.
The captain of the ship is responsible for the outcome of the trip.
The ship sank.
Good luck steering your ship through a maze of icebergs
Capt: Hey guys, go this way, I trust you guys to follow this path while I go handle some shipment calls Employees: God he's never around, lets just go this way instead Capt: Hey guys, is everything okay? I said go this way, please go this way, I need to take care of some things, if there's problems please let me know though okay? Employee # 1: I heard Captain is taking our pay! I'm don't trust em, despite them never needing money because they created this ship for us in the first place, but that's besides the point! I just don't trust em now. Employee #2: I don't like how this ship is being run, I'm gonna request off this boat, and claim injury, but then secretly join another competitive boat, and work for them for more $! Employee #3: I don't think this boat has enough fancy things on it, I don't like it, even though I work hard enough to come in 2nd place against other boats. Capt: Uhh, guys, there's an iceberg in front of us and we can't turn away fast enough wtf happened. I'm gonna report all of your issues so you guys have to admit your wrong doings before you move on to other boats. It's only fair. Employee #1 : YOU STEAL MY MONIES, SCREW YOU Employee #2 : IM ALREADY AT HOME AND WITH NEW TEAM, I'll JUST LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU SAY BECAUSE ITS YOUR WORDS VERSUS MINE! Employee #3 : I'll LIE AS WELL! Capt: well Employee #1, we never took money from you, so come clean, Employee #2, we had video cameras on teh boat and caught you lying, and we have proof you came into the captains quarters and screamed at us instead of presenting the problems when asked by the crew captain. Employee #3, here's proof you're lying
HEY GUYS CAPTAIN IS ALL AT FAULT HERE, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EMPLOYEES RIGHT?
obviously the captain should've taken the reins earlier, or designated someone to take over who was more trust worthy, but goddamnit, blaming everything on the captain sure is a retarded scapegoat out of this.
I have a question, and it's quite possible I missed something.
Why is SlayerS actually disbanding? If the players are the cause of the trouble on the team, why don't they just dump the players and move on? Didn't TSL do something similar?
Is SlayerS low on cash? I'm unclear why the actions of MMA, Alicia, and Crank (if that's really the whole story) mean the entire team has to go.
On October 23 2012 05:42 Fenrax wrote: Why do neither Crank not MMA say anything regarding the length and the enforcement of the practice ban?
the fact that there was a practice ban was enough for eSF to have 'lost' that battle in Korea, regardless of the actual length. That issue is effectively over in Korea.
Then why is the guilt question between Jessica amnd the players? When the ones truly at fault are ESF?
On October 23 2012 07:53 Jetaap wrote: I hate this, Jessica is acting completly insane and is incredibly destructive. Why the hell does she wants to have these players burn to flame, even if there was some truth in what he said she would not be right to do it this way. Absolutely disgusting.
It's perfectly justied that's she's doing this, if what she said is true. I don't believe we should support and encourage those players, nor give them the ability to 'rake in the money' as it were. And I stress again, that's only if it's true of course.
It doesnt matter, if what she said is true or not. Even if i can understand her, and sympathize, from a proffesional standpoint, managers do not burn their players to the ground out of some unclear personal motives. Why was it personal? She disbanded team and could leave it at that. Just formal announcements. Her vengeance doesnt serve anyone good. Even her. She didnt achieve anything apart from the ESF thing. Why are most eyes on her in the TL? Because, she started this by herself in public, roughly speaking.
If her words are true she for sure should "burn" all the players on her way out. Just because they are your beloved players and they so freaking awesome and cool guys in your eyes.shouldn't protect them from such stuff...
you mean she should burn the players for wanting to leave the team? Cause this fact is clear as day.
do you really think the players are innocent in all of this?
Im not siding with anyone here. I just said that managers are not supposed to ruin the players' future because they leave the team. Anywhere.
IF the players rlly did all that shit and are 1 reason for the downfall of the team. fuck yes they are supposed 2 born. want them 2 join the next team and if things in the next team are not all rainbows they ruin the next team?.
If she is right , the players should gtfo and search a different job.
Seriously, it´s 100% the fault of the leader/leaders of an organisation when something goes wrong. It´s certainly possible that the people beneath the leaders make mistakes causing trouble. However, that doesn´t matter. As a leader, it is your job to prevent that or to fix that. That´s why you are the leader, you got power but you also are responsible for everything going on in your organization.
That´s simply how it works. Just look at the corporate world for example. When you work as the lead programmer for a big software project but the software doesn´t work in the end you are responsible and not your co workers who are beneath you in the command structure.
And I think it´s the same here. The people who are to blame are the owners of the team and not the players. They failed to solve these issues which is their job.
On October 23 2012 08:08 Thehealbus wrote: I think that Jessica tried her best to to the team as well as she could, but the amount of severe problems that the players caused led to the team breaking down.
I'm extremely disappointed that crank is trying to defend his constant lying.
It's a very big tell that cella is siding with Jessica against crank.
Indeed, evidence that Crank has been lying and severely lacking in decency (not letting Slayers know anything) has been provided.
On October 23 2012 01:38 tMomiji wrote: I'm just really disappointed that they blame so much on Crank. I can understand wanting to leave an upsetting environment, I honestly hope that MMA joins Axiom along with Ryung and Crank so that they can all be in a better environment together. I just wonder what has happened with Alicia - not because I want to pry, but because he's a player I really like and I hope he will be okay.
The problem is how he left. He says "So when I told her that I wanted to leave the team I made sure to tell her that it's not because of money" and "I was preparing to quit my gaming career", and then a short time after he left he suddenly joins a foreign team (which are known to have a lot of money). I personally can easily understand that someone would connect the dots in such a way that he just lied to get out of SlayerS. And I can also understand how some people are angry about such behavior.
Such a misunderstanding could've been prevented by him if he contacted SlayerS after the Axiom offer and explained his change of mind. But he apparently didnt care what SlayerS thought of him, or the relationship was too bad to have such a talk - I dont know (it could even be the case they had such a talk which wasnt fruitful).
Actually, it's pretty certain that the reason why he left was for a large part to search for a foreign team. The statement from Slayers that he left the team due to neck problems was on the 26th of July. According to both statements, he was still on the team on the 21st of July and most likely a couple more days after. I've gathered evidence that he was streaming from the 25th onwards for long periods of time a day. During those streams he actively engaged with foreigners asking them how best he could contact and join foreign teams. I might also add that he specifically started streaming those days at 6am KST (sometimes even earlier), which is the best time to stream for US and the worst time to stream for Korea. He laddered during the streams on US server as Korean server is nearly dead at that time.
On July 25 2012 23:41 Ingebrigtsen wrote: wow, he should really get some love, waking up at 6 am just so that he could stream at a good time, big props
To leave the team, while explicitly stating you are going to take a rest and not going in search for (foreign) teams, while doing so the very day you are released is damning evidence to me that he lied.
On October 23 2012 08:08 Thehealbus wrote: I think that Jessica tried her best to to the team as well as she could, but the amount of severe problems that the players caused led to the team breaking down.
I'm extremely disappointed that crank is trying to defend his constant lying.
It's a very big tell that cella is siding with Jessica against crank.
Indeed, evidence that Crank has been lying and severely lacking in decency (not letting Slayers know anything) has been provided.
Um, neither can I. I also can't imagine I'd find "evidence" amongst random TL posts.
I'm pretty sure that if there had been actual evidence, it would have been included in the OP somewhere along with all the significant translations. For now, all we have are interviews, statements, and a phone call we do not yet know the content of.
I just dont appreciate people who blindly side with the players because of a reputation. Reading these posts, youd think crank did no wrong and jessica is sole creator of the mess
They're of mature age, past that point you cannot treat them different than an adult.
This is true, but just because you're above 18 doesn't mean you aren't still immature -at that point (unless you've led a hard life), you probably have no real-world experience.
I know that when I consider myself from ages 18-25, I made quite a few mistakes and did not always act responsibly. It wouldn't be a stretch to say I acted like an idiot in numerous circumstances. I think it's incredibly naive to assume that someone in their early 20's automatically possesses the maturity to act like an adult.
And that's precisely why team managers and coaches are so important. They are there to guide and develop the players into, not just excellent SC2 players, but responsible adults. Some people may disagree with me about the scope of a manager's job, saying that it is no different from any other job which employs young adults. I disagree, primarily because SC2 teams are less formal organizations than traditional jobs (thus reducing the perceived sense of responsibility and obligation), and because of the existence of a live-in team house. The team house is particularly unique, as living with one's team destroys the boundaries between personal and professional life. The manager's job, therefore, isn't just like a business owner, it's also like a camp counselor, where one is directly responsible for leading certain activities throughout the day, but also maintains a general responsibility over their camper's free time and where they live/what they eat. I'm not sure that's the best analogy, but it's the best one I could think of thus far. Regardless, my point is that the responsibilities of a team manager extend beyond managing to the business needs of a team -they also encompass managing the personal needs of the team.
On October 23 2012 08:07 SupLilSon wrote: Why are Koreans siding with Jessica? I'm not saying they shouldn't but I just don't see a clear right or wrong here. To me it seems like all aspects of SlayerS were messed up. What aspect of this drama plants the blame squarely on MMA/Crank/Alicia? Can a Korean explain the reasoning behind this?
It really feels like Jessica is simply a better spin-doctor. She got in early with MMA being dropped to the b-team and then released that looong statement about MMA and Crank. Hard for them to get past the first impressions. But that's obviously just a guess, I'd also be interested to know from any Koreans why they think it's the case.
spin doctor who has presented records and evidence? in what world is that spin? that's called truth.
Spin doctor as in she may have presented the truth, but they're exaggerated or not the whole truth. Case in point - esf head said she demanded a crazy transfer fee for MMA. Jessica responds by saying, she offered MMA to Liquid for free. That part is true because jessica did offer MMA to liquid for free, but she left out the part that she did originally ask for a 90k fee for MMA and only changed it to free when no foreign team bit at that.
That is the way jessica operates. She presents only partial truths and the ones which put her in the best light. She has never taken the blame for anything that happened to slayers. It's inconceivable to think that everyone has wronged her and she is always the victim. Every time there's drama with her, she is always the victim. It's basically impossible to think that everyone that has a problem with her in esports is out to get her. There's no other person in esports who causes as much drama as her.
On October 23 2012 08:08 Thehealbus wrote: I think that Jessica tried her best to to the team as well as she could, but the amount of severe problems that the players caused led to the team breaking down.
I'm extremely disappointed that crank is trying to defend his constant lying.
It's a very big tell that cella is siding with Jessica against crank.
Indeed, evidence that Crank has been lying and severely lacking in decency (not letting Slayers know anything) has been provided. Cella is even siding with Jessica on this matter. I'm not sure how much more you guys need to stop defending the player and ridiculing Jessica.
On October 23 2012 08:11 tMomiji wrote:
On October 23 2012 08:09 Shival wrote:
On October 23 2012 08:06 tMomiji wrote:
On October 23 2012 08:04 Shival wrote:
On October 23 2012 08:03 tMomiji wrote:
On October 23 2012 08:00 Shival wrote:
On October 23 2012 07:59 tMomiji wrote:
On October 23 2012 07:56 Shival wrote: [quote]
It's perfectly justied that's she's doing this, if what she said is true. I don't believe we should support and encourage those players, nor give them the ability to 'rake in the money' as it were. And I stress again, that's only if it's true of course.
How can this be justified, no matter *what* happened?? Attacking these kids like that? No matter what really happened I cannot condone that...
Kids..? Do you even know how old they are?
Yes I do. ^^ Crank is 23 and MMA is soon to be 24 - in just one week! Anyone under 30 is a kid to meeeee~ Not a child obviously, but still a kid.
They're of mature age, past that point you cannot treat them different than an adult.
Regardless I do not condone the way she has handled this and how she has attacked them.
That's fine, I beg to differ but it's a fine opinion to have
-gasp- You mean two people can have different opinions but still be civil towards each other? MADNESS.
Ridiculous notion, right?
Stop 'ridiculing' Jessica for shitting on her players in her last statement? She could have easily left the drama out and parted on a note that Slayers had internal disputes. Instead she took the low road, and released anything convenient to making her look like a saint and the players the destruction of SlayerS. She's not innocent in this either, and shes wholly responsible for bringing the drama to the public forum.
I'm willing to bet my life savings on you doing the same as her if you have felt as wronged as she apperantly felt. If what she says holds up, I'm sure nearly everyone would've done the same. You're just a bunch of hypocrites if you think you could've bottled it all up to be forgotten.
I am glad that Nazgul didn't pick up MMA at that time, but now should be the right timing to recruit him. All he need just a title "starting a new life" kinda for recruitment post.
On October 23 2012 08:22 FuzzyJAM wrote: MMA's version of events sounds at least fifty thousand times more believable than Jessica's "I'm perfect and everyone else is terrible and ruined everything". Not sure how I feel about MMA talking about relationship problems in public though, that seems to be crossing the line.
Who knows though? Pretty sure it won't matter in Korea of course. . .
I agree MMA airing Jessica and Boxer's relationship problem was a big mistake. I would have taken the high road if I were him, but I don't have to deal with all the people blindly side with her just because she's Boxer's girl. He must feel extremely powerless in this situation.
On October 23 2012 08:25 Wayne123 wrote: Seriously, it´s 100% the fault of the leader/leaders of an organisation when something goes wrong. It´s certainly possible that the people beneath the leaders make mistakes causing trouble. However, that doesn´t matter. As a leader, it is your job to prevent that or to fix that. That´s why you are the leader, you got power but you also are responsible for everything going on in your organization.
That´s simply how it works. Just look at the corporate world for example. When you work as the lead programmer for a big software project but the software doesn´t work in the end you are responsible and not your co workers who are beneath you in the command structure.
And I think it´s the same here. The people who are to blame are the owners of the team and not the players. They failed to solve these issues which is their job.
You realize, Jessica is taking that responsibility by dissolving SlayerS right? Jessica / Boxer took the investment to manage / fund SlayerS. They aren't making the players pay money as if they are responsible for the dissolving. They aren't making the players pay money as if they should return the investment that Boxer put in. This is how things work in a professional institution. The way you take responsibility is to declare bankruptcy and take your losses with out making your employees pay out of their pocket. She's arguing that she doesn't need to compensate these players for their individual faults, as well as making sure the players can transfer to other competitors and not be out of a job. Despite the drama, look at the status for these players, they've been allowed off the team, Jessica was looking for teams to send them to, and she's nullified the contracts.
Taking sole responsibility doesn't mean pretending everything is your fault.
On October 23 2012 08:08 Thehealbus wrote: I think that Jessica tried her best to to the team as well as she could, but the amount of severe problems that the players caused led to the team breaking down.
I'm extremely disappointed that crank is trying to defend his constant lying.
It's a very big tell that cella is siding with Jessica against crank.
Indeed, evidence that Crank has been lying and severely lacking in decency (not letting Slayers know anything) has been provided.
Um, neither can I. I also can't imagine I'd find "evidence" amongst random TL posts.
I'm pretty sure that if there had been actual evidence, it would have been included in the OP somewhere along with all the significant translations. For now, all we have are interviews, statements, and a phone call we do not yet know the content of.
None of the OPs has all the interviews, statements and translations bunched together, not to mention the tweets and translations thereof. How do you expect the evidence posted by TL members to also show up on the OP if not even that makes it.
On October 23 2012 08:07 SupLilSon wrote: Why are Koreans siding with Jessica? I'm not saying they shouldn't but I just don't see a clear right or wrong here. To me it seems like all aspects of SlayerS were messed up. What aspect of this drama plants the blame squarely on MMA/Crank/Alicia? Can a Korean explain the reasoning behind this?
It really feels like Jessica is simply a better spin-doctor. She got in early with MMA being dropped to the b-team and then released that looong statement about MMA and Crank. Hard for them to get past the first impressions. But that's obviously just a guess, I'd also be interested to know from any Koreans why they think it's the case.
spin doctor who has presented records and evidence? in what world is that spin? that's called truth.
Spin doesn't matter.
The captain of the ship is responsible for the outcome of the trip.
The ship sank.
Good luck steering your ship through a maze of icebergs
Capt: Hey guys, go this way, I trust you guys to follow this path while I go handle some shipment calls Employees: God he's never around, lets just go this way instead Capt: Hey guys, is everything okay? I said go this way, please go this way, I need to take care of some things, if there's problems please let me know though okay? Employee # 1: I heard Captain is taking our pay! I'm don't trust em, despite them never needing money because they created this ship for us in the first place, but that's besides the point! I just don't trust em now. Employee #2: I don't like how this ship is being run, I'm gonna request off this boat, and claim injury, but then secretly join another competitive boat, and work for them for more $! Employee #3: I don't think this boat has enough fancy things on it, I don't like it, even though I work hard enough to come in 2nd place against other boats. Capt: Uhh, guys, there's an iceberg in front of us and we can't turn away fast enough wtf happened. I'm gonna report all of your issues so you guys have to admit your wrong doings before you move on to other boats. It's only fair. Employee #1 : YOU STEAL MY MONIES, SCREW YOU Employee #2 : IM ALREADY AT HOME AND WITH NEW TEAM, I'll JUST LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU SAY BECAUSE ITS YOUR WORDS VERSUS MINE! Employee #3 : I'll LIE AS WELL! Capt: well Employee #1, we never took money from you, so come clean, Employee #2, we had video cameras on teh boat and caught you lying, and we have proof you came into the captains quarters and screamed at us instead of presenting the problems when asked by the crew captain. Employee #3, here's proof you're lying
HEY GUYS CAPTAIN IS ALL AT FAULT HERE, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EMPLOYEES RIGHT?
obviously the captain should've taken the reins earlier, or designated someone to take over who was more trust worthy, but goddamnit, blaming everything on the captain sure is a retarded scapegoat out of this.
Not to mention your scenario is totally ridiculous, in your scenario, your captain failed at picking correct crew, which is part of the job. Not many people are blaming everything on the captain but only on person here is having problems with literally every single person who comes in contact with.
EPT
